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Wed Mar 14, 2018, 11:26 AM

White men stockpile guns because they're scared of black people and feel inadequate, science says

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by muriel_volestrangler (a host of the General Discussion forum).



Who likes guns and why?

That’s the subject of a new Scientific American article which draws from a number of scientific studies, finding a very specific profile of the average American gun owner. It’s a relatively small group since just three percent of the population owns half of the country’s firearms.

According to science, the average gun owner is a white man without much education who is worried about providing for his family and who is afraid of black people.

“These are men who are anxious about their ability to protect their families, insecure about their place in the job market, and beset by racial fears,” Scientific American writes. - Raw Story

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Reply White men stockpile guns because they're scared of black people and feel inadequate, science says (Original post)
ffr Mar 2018 OP
cilla4progress Mar 2018 #1
TheBlackAdder Mar 2018 #36
fierywoman Mar 2018 #44
lagomorph777 Mar 2018 #39
brush Mar 2018 #62
Thomas Hurt Mar 2018 #2
ffr Mar 2018 #6
d_r Mar 2018 #13
Laura PourMeADrink Mar 2018 #9
d_r Mar 2018 #14
sl8 Mar 2018 #19
IronLionZion Mar 2018 #66
GulfCoast66 Mar 2018 #46
DBoon Mar 2018 #52
Laura PourMeADrink Mar 2018 #3
ooky Mar 2018 #21
Laura PourMeADrink Mar 2018 #33
ooky Mar 2018 #41
hueymahl Mar 2018 #4
flibbitygiblets Mar 2018 #5
underpants Mar 2018 #7
Hoyt Mar 2018 #8
hack89 Mar 2018 #17
Hoyt Mar 2018 #20
hack89 Mar 2018 #24
Hoyt Mar 2018 #27
hack89 Mar 2018 #28
DanTex Mar 2018 #47
hack89 Mar 2018 #49
DanTex Mar 2018 #50
hack89 Mar 2018 #51
DanTex Mar 2018 #67
hack89 Mar 2018 #71
DanTex Mar 2018 #74
hack89 Mar 2018 #76
SWBTATTReg Mar 2018 #10
d_r Mar 2018 #11
OneGrassRoot Mar 2018 #31
Post removed Mar 2018 #12
smirkymonkey Mar 2018 #15
d_r Mar 2018 #18
smirkymonkey Mar 2018 #25
Locrian Mar 2018 #30
DBoon Mar 2018 #54
lunasun Mar 2018 #55
The Velveteen Ocelot Mar 2018 #16
hack89 Mar 2018 #22
LanternWaste Mar 2018 #34
hack89 Mar 2018 #38
gratuitous Mar 2018 #35
hack89 Mar 2018 #37
Tipperary Mar 2018 #40
IronLionZion Mar 2018 #70
hack89 Mar 2018 #73
d_r Mar 2018 #23
spanone Mar 2018 #26
CanonRay Mar 2018 #29
handmade34 Mar 2018 #43
HopeAgain Mar 2018 #32
Iggo Mar 2018 #42
DBoon Mar 2018 #59
Iggo Mar 2018 #60
DBoon Mar 2018 #61
Blue_true Mar 2018 #45
GulfCoast66 Mar 2018 #48
DBoon Mar 2018 #57
Blue_true Mar 2018 #64
lunasun Mar 2018 #58
Dreamer Tatum Mar 2018 #53
Gothmog Mar 2018 #56
world wide wally Mar 2018 #63
moondust Mar 2018 #65
BadGimp Mar 2018 #68
aikoaiko Mar 2018 #69
TalenaGor Mar 2018 #72
FailureToCommunicate Mar 2018 #75
muriel_volestrangler Mar 2018 #77

Response to ffr (Original post)

Wed Mar 14, 2018, 11:27 AM

1. Totally....

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Response to cilla4progress (Reply #1)

Wed Mar 14, 2018, 12:18 PM

36. And it probably plays in well with the Christian Persecution Complex.

This is further exacerbated by many churches, acting like cults to retain members, telling them that they are not to converse or associate with others outside of their faith or congregation. The fears of being corrupted or manipulated are some of the common themes for this communal thought--when in reality it is so the pastors can retain power and profit from their sheep.

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Response to TheBlackAdder (Reply #36)

Wed Mar 14, 2018, 12:52 PM

44. and that thing that only THEY will be "saved" because they

"believe in Jesus." (What does "believe in Jesus" mean, anyway? Either you walk the talk and live the teachings of Jesus -- starting with the Golden Rule -- or you're a hypocrite.)

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Response to cilla4progress (Reply #1)

Wed Mar 14, 2018, 12:28 PM

39. Maybe they should make them with pink barrels and available in regular or circumcised versions.

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Response to cilla4progress (Reply #1)

Wed Mar 14, 2018, 01:47 PM

62. Kind of explains all the cop shootings of unarmed black men. Fear and panic takes over and the...

result is another dead, unarmed black man.

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Response to ffr (Original post)

Wed Mar 14, 2018, 11:29 AM

2. mainline conservatism has a yellow streak running right through the middle of it.

afraid of change, different languages, different skin color, different religion, etc.

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Response to Thomas Hurt (Reply #2)

Wed Mar 14, 2018, 11:31 AM

6. +1 There must be a link between afraid and conservatives.

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Response to Thomas Hurt (Reply #2)

Wed Mar 14, 2018, 11:33 AM

9. My theory is that the farther away you are from when your ancestors came to America - the more

intolerant you are. I grew up in New England when everyone's grandparents came from another country. It makes you tolerant of people who are different than you.

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Reply #9)

Wed Mar 14, 2018, 11:43 AM

14. I think I'm pretty tolerant

and there isn't a branch of my family tree that came to US after the revolutionary war

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Reply #9)

Wed Mar 14, 2018, 11:51 AM

19. What does your theory say about folks whose ancestors came to America 10,000+ years ago? n/t

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Response to sl8 (Reply #19)

Wed Mar 14, 2018, 01:51 PM

66. Plenty of racists want to deport Native Americans

and already have, see trail of tears.

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Reply #9)

Wed Mar 14, 2018, 12:58 PM

46. 3 of my 4 grandparents came from Revolutionary War vets.

2 of my wife’s did. Be careful about painting with too broad a brush.

That said, a lot of my rural kin are very intolerant. I think it has more to do with where you are raised and live.

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Reply #9)

Wed Mar 14, 2018, 01:29 PM

52. a variant of that may be true

If you live in a community and associate with different types of people, you tend to be more tolerant

Opposition to Mexican immigration increases the further you are from the border

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Response to ffr (Original post)

Wed Mar 14, 2018, 11:29 AM

3. Interesting. There's got to be some reason...here in Texas I see people

who have actual rooms in their houses for their guns. It is just unbelievably mind-boggling - why these inanimate objects are SO important to them.

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Reply #3)

Wed Mar 14, 2018, 11:51 AM

21. It supports the insecurity argument.

Its one thing to keep a gun under your mattress for protection that nobody knows you have. Its entirely different when you give guided tours of your “gun room”, because that’s about braggadocio about how masculine and tough you are.

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Response to ooky (Reply #21)

Wed Mar 14, 2018, 12:13 PM

33. Ha...were you there? It actually happened - at a party at their house - they gave a

guided tour of house - and into the gun room. The guy still laughs at me when I see him. When we got to that room I said "Oh no, I'm not going in there - I'm a Democrat ! "

This other guy we know - who has an interesting background - was a marine and assigned to protect Clinton at WH (and actually was interviewed and asked if he ever saw Monica around).....on the day of the Florida school shooting posted on Facebook a pic of him and his wife standing there with rifles. Incredibly ignorant

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Reply #33)

Wed Mar 14, 2018, 12:39 PM

41. It happens everywhere there are gun idiots.

And it may not be a gun room, but you can be visiting and sitting in their rec room when they bring out their guns for show and tell. And in general these people’s ignorance about almost everything goes hand in hand with their childish insecurity. And I live in an area of North Carolina where they are everywhere.

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Response to ffr (Original post)

Wed Mar 14, 2018, 11:29 AM

4. Yup.

Big guns for men with small "hands."

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Response to ffr (Original post)

Wed Mar 14, 2018, 11:31 AM

5. Science aside, this is plainly evident to anyone who is paying attention

To this casual observer, gun fanatics I've encountered tend to be poorly educated, economically challenged, and blatantly racist.

Sounds like education would fix many of these problems. Gee, I wonder why DeVos is in charge of education????

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Response to ffr (Original post)

Wed Mar 14, 2018, 11:31 AM

7. Very good short read. The detachment from religion makes sense

and mirrors many gun owners that I know - not just the fanatics either. But then I don't know a lot of really religious people.

The position and respect in society makes sense

In all it's their religion in a way.

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Response to ffr (Original post)

Wed Mar 14, 2018, 11:32 AM

8. That's what I have been saying for years. Even got me booted from Gungeon.

White wing racist gun-fanciers don't all act like Ted Nugent, but they accept him and the NRA membership keeps electing him as a board member.

?w=600

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #8)

Wed Mar 14, 2018, 11:49 AM

17. It says a lot about gun control when a moron like Ted Nugent kicks their asses on a regular basis

I think that the gun control movement needs a little introspection to come up with a workable strategy.

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Response to hack89 (Reply #17)

Wed Mar 14, 2018, 11:51 AM

20. Gunners could use a little introspection too, less hatred, and less love for Ted Nugent and NRA.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #20)

Wed Mar 14, 2018, 11:53 AM

24. I have plenty of contempt for Ted Nugent

and not just because of Cat Scratch Fever. But he represents a very low bar and yet you can't beat him. If you want to succeed you need to do exactly that.

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Response to hack89 (Reply #24)

Wed Mar 14, 2018, 11:55 AM

27. He's helping to protect your guns.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #27)

Wed Mar 14, 2018, 11:57 AM

28. No. Democratic leadership protects my guns.

let's remember exactly who votes on legislation.

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Response to hack89 (Reply #17)

Wed Mar 14, 2018, 01:05 PM

47. Yes, it says that there are a lot of insecure racist white men in this country.

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Response to DanTex (Reply #47)

Wed Mar 14, 2018, 01:11 PM

49. Are you conceding that the gun control side is at a significant disadvantage because of that?

if that is the case, it looks like my point is correct - there needs to be a change in strategy and tactics. Which requires introspection and self-honesty as to why every year they lose ground.

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Response to hack89 (Reply #49)

Wed Mar 14, 2018, 01:14 PM

50. Of course. Same as with a lot of issues. It's not like guns are the only area where

racist white people stand in the way of progress. How do you think Trump got elected?

Racism is alive and well, and guns are just one of the consequences.

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Response to DanTex (Reply #50)

Wed Mar 14, 2018, 01:22 PM

51. I think it is dangerous to strongly link race with gun violence

it is not as clear cut as many want to believe. There are many thriving gun sub-cultures in America in that span all the races.

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Response to hack89 (Reply #51)

Wed Mar 14, 2018, 01:53 PM

67. LOL. You know the difference between "race" and "racism", right?

I'm linking racism and right-wing views on guns (as well as many other issues). It's obvious, and it was obvious well before this latest study confirmed it.

If you want to start talking about race and gun violence, maybe start another OP about it, see how it goes. I'm sure you have a lot of fascinating views on the topic.

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Response to DanTex (Reply #67)

Wed Mar 14, 2018, 01:56 PM

71. Sorry. Thought the concern was gun violence not gun ownership.

my bad.

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Response to hack89 (Reply #71)

Wed Mar 14, 2018, 01:58 PM

74. Gun violence, which is caused by lax gun laws, supported by racist right-wingers.

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Response to DanTex (Reply #74)

Wed Mar 14, 2018, 02:00 PM

76. It's like 6 degrees of Kevin Bacon

it will always lead back to some hillbilly redneck. Got it.

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Response to ffr (Original post)

Wed Mar 14, 2018, 11:39 AM

10. It's disgusting but this is sounding more and more like a revised KKK to me, doesn't it? NT

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Response to ffr (Original post)

Wed Mar 14, 2018, 11:40 AM

11. link to article

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Response to d_r (Reply #11)

Wed Mar 14, 2018, 12:11 PM

31. Thank you. I wish...

more people would link to the direct source, not these sites that basically rip off others' original content.

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Response to ffr (Original post)


Response to ffr (Original post)

Wed Mar 14, 2018, 11:45 AM

15. In other words, weak, cowardly, stupid, insecure men.

They are all so pathetic!

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Response to smirkymonkey (Reply #15)

Wed Mar 14, 2018, 11:51 AM

18. the original article concludes with this-

What are the solutions? That and many other studies suggest that restricting the flow of guns and ammunition would certainly save lives. But no law can address the absence of meaning and purpose that many white men appear to feel, which they might be able to gain through social connection to people who never expected to have the economic security and social power that white men once enjoyed.

“Ridicule of working-class white people is not helpful,” says Angela Stroud. “We need to push the ‘good guys’ to have a deeper connection to other people. We need to reimagine who we are in relation to each other.”

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Response to d_r (Reply #18)

Wed Mar 14, 2018, 11:54 AM

25. The problem is that they isolate themselves.

I'm sorry, but their problems are pretty much all their own fault. They could change things if they wanted to, but they are too fearful and ignorant to change.

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Response to d_r (Reply #18)

Wed Mar 14, 2018, 12:10 PM

30. pretty much nails it IMHO

But no law can address the absence of meaning and purpose that many white men appear to feel, which they might be able to gain through social connection to people who never expected to have the economic security and social power that white men once enjoyed.


Zero sum game, redistribution of wealth to the top, etc has consequences.

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Response to d_r (Reply #18)

Wed Mar 14, 2018, 01:36 PM

54. There was a book out a few years ago called "Bowling Alone"

Demonstrating a long term decline in social connectedness among Americans.

You used to get social connectedness from volunteer sports leagues, fraternal organizations, charity work, etc. These have faded as people spend more time in private activities or in mass entertainment that does not provide real social connections.

The paranoid cynic in me believes this is deliberate - a way to disempower the working class to enable more thorough control and domination.

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Response to d_r (Reply #18)

Wed Mar 14, 2018, 01:38 PM

55. Push the good guys with guns to have a deeper connection to black, other people- it suggests at

end of the article? Maybe that is not what they meant . I am not sure

How does that happen when they have a gun they are not afraid to use because they are afraid of you? I would not push them or engage .

Are they saying other whites should push the gun stockpilers to connect? Who is we?



I do not think anyone likes being pushed.
They could just double down if pushed by others and stock pile more guns and their trigger fingers get even more itchy wanting to use the guns

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Response to ffr (Original post)

Wed Mar 14, 2018, 11:47 AM

16. Some interesting observations from the article:

Both Froese and Stroud found pervasive anti-government sentiments among their study participants. “This is interesting because these men tend to see themselves as devoted patriots, but make a distinction between the federal government and the ‘nation,’ says Froese. “On that point, I expect that many in this group see the ‘nation’ as being white.”

Investing guns with this kind of moral and emotional meaning has many consequences, the researchers say. “Put simply, owners who are more attached to their guns are most likely to believe that guns are a solution to our social ills,” says Froese. “For them, more ‘good’ people with guns would drastically reduce violence and increase civility. Again, it reflects a hero narrative, which many white man long to feel a part of.”


We so often see guys who claim to be great patriots but at the same time are anti-government. Their concept of "America" has nothing to do with its government but what they believe the country itself ought to be - populated by white people.



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Response to ffr (Original post)

Wed Mar 14, 2018, 11:51 AM

22. Legal gun owners aren't doing most of the killing.

nor are whites the only race with thriving gun cultures.

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Response to hack89 (Reply #22)

Wed Mar 14, 2018, 12:13 PM

34. I can empathize... science is hard.

I can empathize... science is hard, and we're often reduced to arguing against irrelevant points no one is currently making when faced with it.

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Response to LanternWaste (Reply #34)

Wed Mar 14, 2018, 12:26 PM

38. Isn't who is killing who the bottom line issue?

because if we are not talking about gun violence, what difference does it make who owns most of the guns? If they are not killing people why care?

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Response to hack89 (Reply #22)

Wed Mar 14, 2018, 12:17 PM

35. Stephen Paddock had a pretty good body count

I've seen nothing suggesting each and every firearm he had was nothing but 100% legal for him. Of course, his shooting percentage wasn't really very good, but the volume certainly resulted in an impressive final score.

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Response to gratuitous (Reply #35)

Wed Mar 14, 2018, 12:25 PM

37. Look at all the gun deaths throughout an entire year.

the FBI crime stats are a good place to start - it breaks down gun deaths by demographics.

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Response to hack89 (Reply #22)

Wed Mar 14, 2018, 12:39 PM

40. Good point. But no one here will pay any attention.

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Response to hack89 (Reply #22)

Wed Mar 14, 2018, 01:54 PM

70. When they decide to do something illegal like mass murder, it's a bit too late

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Response to IronLionZion (Reply #70)

Wed Mar 14, 2018, 01:58 PM

73. Non-mass murder has many more victims

so my point still stands. Dead is dead whether you have company when you are shot or not.

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Response to ffr (Original post)

Wed Mar 14, 2018, 11:53 AM

23. The troll's post was deleted

before I finished my reply, which was to refer to https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/why-are-white-men-stockpiling-guns/


HOW TO SAVE A WHITE MAN’S LIFE

Unfortunately, the people most likely to be killed by the guns of white men aren’t the “bad guys,” presumably criminals or terrorists. It’s themselves—and their families.

White men aren’t just the Americans most likely to own guns; according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, they’re also the people most likely to put them in their own mouths and pull the trigger, especially when they’re in some kind of economic distress. A white man is three times more likely to shoot himself than a black man—while the chances that a white man will be killed by a black man are extremely slight. Most murders and shoot-outs don’t happen between strangers. They unfold within social networks, among people of the same race.

A gun in the home is far more likely to kill or wound the people who live there than is a burglar or serial killer. Most of the time, according to every single study that’s ever been done about interpersonal gun violence, the dead and wounded know the people who shot them. A gun in the home makes it five times more likely that a woman will be killed by her husband. Every week in America, 136 children and teenagers are shot—and more often than not, it’s a sibling, friend, parent, or relative who holds the gun. For every homicide deemed justified by the police, guns are used in 78 suicides. As a new study published this month in JAMA Internal Medicine once again shows us, restrictive gun laws don’t prevent white men from defending themselves and their families. Instead, those laws stop them from shooting themselves and each other.

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Response to ffr (Original post)

Wed Mar 14, 2018, 11:54 AM

26. how many of mass shooters have been African Americans? 1982 - 2018

Number of mass shootings in the United States between 1982 and February 2018, by mass shooter's race and ethnicity
https://www.statista.com/statistics/476456/mass-shootings-in-the-us-by-shooter-s-race/

I fear white people.....

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Response to ffr (Original post)

Wed Mar 14, 2018, 12:05 PM

29. "They cling to their guns and God"

seems to me I recall hearing that somewhere...

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Response to CanonRay (Reply #29)

Wed Mar 14, 2018, 12:44 PM

43. ironically

Obama was correct in what he said and unfortunately the truth hurts insecure people


'...they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them..."

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Response to ffr (Original post)

Wed Mar 14, 2018, 12:12 PM

32. A'scared Racists

No surprise there...

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Response to ffr (Original post)

Wed Mar 14, 2018, 12:40 PM

42. Every gunfucker I've known is proud of being afraid.

It starts and ends right there.

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Response to Iggo (Reply #42)

Wed Mar 14, 2018, 01:42 PM

59. and they are baffled that YOU aren't as afraid

They can't understand why someone who lives in a diverse city isn't terrified every minute of the harm some stranger could do to them

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Response to DBoon (Reply #59)

Wed Mar 14, 2018, 01:43 PM

60. "They don't love you as much as you love them."

One of my favorite gunfuckerisms. Referring to black people. Of course.

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Response to Iggo (Reply #60)

Wed Mar 14, 2018, 01:47 PM

61. "They don't hate you as much as you fear them"

my reply

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Response to ffr (Original post)

Wed Mar 14, 2018, 12:53 PM

45. Uneducated white men used to get economic benefits just because of who they were.

Today they have to COMPETE with Blacks, women, immigrants of a leveling playing field and they are losing a lot of those competitions. Those men are even losing out on educated white women, who see better mates in educated men from other groups, those women used to not have those choices.

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Response to Blue_true (Reply #45)

Wed Mar 14, 2018, 01:07 PM

48. Best post of the thread.

I encounter this often. Middle aged white man ‘forced’ to work for a woman or person of color. Who of course was only put in a position of authority because of some ‘liberal, gov’ment, affirmative action plan’.

Then they go home to the ‘little lady’ and their gun where they are king of their domain. Until the ‘little lady’ has enough of their shit and leaves. This is when they go really batshit right wing crazy!.

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Response to Blue_true (Reply #45)

Wed Mar 14, 2018, 01:40 PM

57. Uneducated white men also lack the coping mechanisms to deal with decline

POC have faced this for generations and can cope.

Whites never thought they would face loss of a job or status and are lost

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Response to DBoon (Reply #57)

Wed Mar 14, 2018, 01:50 PM

64. They had better learn, unless they have a way to kill all of the world.

If they again make it impossible for POC or women to compete in the USA, they won't be able to spread that to all of the world, eventually they reach a point of no return, better for them to embrace change and figure out where they can fit in.

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Response to Blue_true (Reply #45)

Wed Mar 14, 2018, 01:41 PM

58. ++++++YES

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Response to ffr (Original post)

Wed Mar 14, 2018, 01:30 PM

53. Why do other races stockpile guns, then?

I'll go ahead and guess that white men aren't the only gun owners.

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Response to ffr (Original post)

Wed Mar 14, 2018, 01:38 PM

56. Water is also wet

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Response to ffr (Original post)

Wed Mar 14, 2018, 01:48 PM

63. ...and they have small dicks

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Response to ffr (Original post)

Wed Mar 14, 2018, 01:50 PM

65. Gun means instant respect!

Can't seem to impress anybody including yourself? Get a gun! You'll notice that people start paying attention and showing you deference! Your self-respect will start to soar! Everyone will recognize that you're the boss wherever you go! Plus you'll be safe from all those MONSTERS out there! All for only $2000!

WOW!

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Response to ffr (Original post)

Wed Mar 14, 2018, 01:53 PM

68. Who Knew!

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Response to ffr (Original post)

Wed Mar 14, 2018, 01:54 PM

69. I look forward to reading the actual SA article; Raw Story fucks up real journalism often


I doubt scientists drew causal relationships from correlational data.

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Response to ffr (Original post)

Wed Mar 14, 2018, 01:58 PM

72. I have a question maybe I just don't get it but

You hear these dudes saying they do it in case they got to take up arms against the government right....
So who exactly are they talking about? Are they going to slaughter unarmed people? Or do they plan on going to war with the other people with the guns... Military!
What the f*** are they thinking?

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Response to ffr (Original post)

Wed Mar 14, 2018, 01:59 PM

75. Gotta wonder if they included white cops in their study...



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Response to ffr (Original post)

Wed Mar 14, 2018, 02:00 PM

77. Locking - the GD hosts do not feel this fits the criteria for gun-related GD posts

"News stories (and related content) from reputable mainstream sources about efforts to strengthen or weaken gun control legislation in any jurisdiction in the United States, national news stories (and related content) from reputable mainstream sources about high-profile gun crimes, and viral political content from social media or blogs that would likely be of interest to a large majority of DU members are permitted under normal circumstances."

Please repost in the Gun Control & RKBA group: https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1172 . Thanks.

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