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Fri Jul 27, 2012, 08:20 PM

How does Dressage qualify as an Olympic event?

The human really doesn't do anything that demonstrates any real talent.

If Dressage is an Olympic event then why isn't dog agility? Or Huckleberry Finn frog jumping?

Edit add

At least in Polo the rider has to steer and use equipment to hit the ball.

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Reply How does Dressage qualify as an Olympic event? (Original post)
LiberalFighter Jul 2012 OP
bupkus Jul 2012 #1
spanone Jul 2012 #5
Posteritatis Jul 2012 #14
riderinthestorm Jul 2012 #18
bupkus Jul 2012 #19
Posteritatis Jul 2012 #26
bupkus Jul 2012 #20
riderinthestorm Jul 2012 #24
A HERETIC I AM Jul 2012 #34
riderinthestorm Jul 2012 #10
bupkus Jul 2012 #23
riderinthestorm Jul 2012 #25
snooper2 Jul 2012 #32
riderinthestorm Jul 2012 #38
HappyMe Jul 2012 #39
Lurks Often Jul 2012 #2
petronius Jul 2012 #3
spanone Jul 2012 #4
yankeepants Jul 2012 #6
valerief Jul 2012 #7
riderinthestorm Jul 2012 #8
HooptieWagon Jul 2012 #15
ChazII Jul 2012 #30
Honeycombe8 Jul 2012 #9
riderinthestorm Jul 2012 #16
Ron Obvious Jul 2012 #11
Posteritatis Jul 2012 #12
HooptieWagon Jul 2012 #13
riderinthestorm Jul 2012 #17
procon Jul 2012 #21
truedelphi Jul 2012 #28
nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #22
yawnmaster Jul 2012 #27
liberal N proud Jul 2012 #29
HooptieWagon Jul 2012 #33
Rosa Luxemburg Jul 2012 #31
larkrake Jul 2012 #35
Snarkoleptic Jul 2012 #36
cilla4progress Jul 2012 #37
undeterred Jul 2012 #40

Response to LiberalFighter (Original post)


Response to bupkus (Reply #1)

Fri Jul 27, 2012, 08:31 PM

5. my daughter took dressage for years, then taught it. i am not remotely obscenely rich.

you have no idea what you are talking about.

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Response to spanone (Reply #5)

Fri Jul 27, 2012, 09:39 PM

14. Reminds me of people in '08 complaining about how patrician hockey was

As someone living in Nova Scotia I found that every conceivable kind of goddamned hilarious at the time...

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Response to Posteritatis (Reply #14)

Fri Jul 27, 2012, 09:47 PM

18. +1000000000. nt

 

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Response to Posteritatis (Reply #14)


Response to bupkus (Reply #19)

Fri Jul 27, 2012, 10:17 PM

26. I'm comparing types of people who merely think they know what they're talking about. (nt)

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Response to spanone (Reply #5)


Response to bupkus (Reply #20)

Fri Jul 27, 2012, 10:11 PM

24. Uh, dressage is the farthest from torture you can imagine. Your ignorance is showing

 

You can't torture any horse into doing dressage (or any other activity). Horses have a huge arsenal of weapons to fight back - biting, kicking or even simply lying down.

Especially at the Olympic level where every last second of that horse's existence is scrutinized including peeing daily into a cup?

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Response to spanone (Reply #5)

Fri Jul 27, 2012, 11:05 PM

34. Glad I'm not the only one on this board.....

Please see my posts on this thread;


http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021032068#post5

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Response to bupkus (Reply #1)

Fri Jul 27, 2012, 09:06 PM

10. No. Just no. Actually its probably the closest equestrian event for the common man

 

than just about any other. EVERYONE who rides practices dressage whenever they ride. Its just a training method to produce a more harmonious ride. My husband and I grew up and come from dirt poor (welfare, eating-out-of-dumpsters-poor) and we're now very successful pro's in the dressage and combined training business. If we can make it, anyone can make it.

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Response to riderinthestorm (Reply #10)


Response to bupkus (Reply #23)

Fri Jul 27, 2012, 10:16 PM

25. As a new rider, Ann Rmoney was as green and "common" as anyone else who's sat in a saddle

 

She rides horses for her MS.

The people who have trained, and ride at the Olympic level are athletes at the peak of their game and most of them are, yes, a common "man" (although horse sports are one of the few gender neutral sports and are dominated by women). Like track and field, or fencing, or rowing, or badminton, or beach volleyball, or basketball - very few of them come from privilege. Most Olympic athletes make more than the bottom 50% earn in a year... fwiw, not just equestrians.

Ann isn't riding this horse - she's simply sponsoring this pair. She has the bucks and is doing the "right" thing by trying to grow the sport in the US (where we really suck at dressage). She's fallen in love with this particular equestrian sport and is trying to keep it alive. That's not a bad thing.

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Response to riderinthestorm (Reply #25)

Fri Jul 27, 2012, 10:58 PM

32. If you are really really good at it (rider wise) does it matter if you have a beer belly?

 

I think not..LOL, I'm not talking obese, just a little belly belly


That's why it's not a sport

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Response to snooper2 (Reply #32)

Sat Jul 28, 2012, 02:39 PM

38. Then you go try it. I double dog dare you. I even have a few upper level horses you can try

 

Come on out, and see if its not a sport after oh, I'll bet 10 minutes of effort on your part (if you haven't already been tossed off by then).

Riders have phenomenal abdominal muscles. Their core muscles, and leg muscles, are unbelievably strong. My husband's six-pack abs (we're well into our fifties) look like he might have a belly when he puts on his riding gear (shadbellies in particular don't make women look terrific when they ride) but its just the nature of how his abdominal muscles have developed over decades of riding and training. Riders aren't fragile people sitting pretty up on the horse - they've got to be pretty beefed up to be effective at what they do.

Sports physiologists have done a lot of work on the fitness levels of different human athletes in different sports. Do you know who are the most fit athletes pound for pound?

Go ahead. Try to guess.


Jockeys.

Yeah, riders. People just sitting up there with their "little belly belly".

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Response to bupkus (Reply #1)

Sat Jul 28, 2012, 02:43 PM

39. Okay then.

When I lived in WI, there was dressage at the county fair. None of those people were even remotely wealthy. The participants all kept their horses on the family farm.

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Response to LiberalFighter (Original post)

Fri Jul 27, 2012, 08:29 PM

2. It's been an Olympic event since 1912 n/t

 

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Response to LiberalFighter (Original post)

Fri Jul 27, 2012, 08:29 PM

3. I suspect that there is a substantial amount of body control involved

in communicating complex signals to the horse without appearing to move.

I mean, I don't think the horse is trained to just go through a series of steps and then sent out with a passenger on its back - the rider is in control the whole time AFAIK...

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Response to LiberalFighter (Original post)

Fri Jul 27, 2012, 08:30 PM

4. the human does quite a bit in dressage.

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Response to LiberalFighter (Original post)

Fri Jul 27, 2012, 08:32 PM

6. To reach that level of riding/partnership with a horse

there are countless hours of work, along with skill, talent, and dedication. The reason that you don't think the rider isn't doing anything is because the cues that the horse is atune to are unbelievable subtle.

Your assessment of the sport is akin to saying that golf is just hitting a ball around a cow pasture.

Watch some videos.

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Response to LiberalFighter (Original post)

Fri Jul 27, 2012, 08:53 PM

7. It's what rich people, and that's all that matters. nt

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Response to LiberalFighter (Original post)

Fri Jul 27, 2012, 09:03 PM

8. Dressage, fencing, 3day eventing, rowing, wrestling, shooting - many of these are old military tests

 

They are "ancient" battle skills that have always had competitions in order to keep skills sharp. It was a no brainer to incorporate most of these into the Olympics.

The horse and rider are really incredible athletes who must form the most delicate and intimate partnership in order to perform at the highest levels. Dressage is practiced by EVERYONE who rides - from those in therapeutic riding, cowboys, trail riders and yes, even those in the Olympics - its simply basic training to form a more perfect harmonious ride.

Contrary to popular opinion, dressage is usually a "poor man's" sport. Since everyone who rides must develop the necessary skills in order to function on a horse, there are millions who do it on their pony, backyard nag, trail horse, ex-racehorse, rescue horse, therapy horse....

The Rmoney's have the big bucks to do this at the most expensive level but anyone who rides practices dressage.

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Response to riderinthestorm (Reply #8)

Fri Jul 27, 2012, 09:40 PM

15. Oops, beat me to it.

 

Yes, you are correct.

Don't forget track and field (like javelin and pole vaulting) and wrestling, boxing, etc.

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Response to riderinthestorm (Reply #8)

Fri Jul 27, 2012, 10:34 PM

30. You're to be praised

for your patience. I appreciate what I have learned about dressage from your posts. Thank you for your explanations of this sport.

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Response to LiberalFighter (Original post)

Fri Jul 27, 2012, 09:04 PM

9. It is, after you pay someone under the table to make it so. nt

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #9)

Fri Jul 27, 2012, 09:44 PM

16. In 1912 the 1% who were driving cars, made an ancient military test part of the Olympics

 

when 99% of the population was still using horses for pretty much everything in their daily lives.

Dressage is an old military test. Virtually anyone who rides practices "dressage". Nobody paid anybody to include it in the Olympics in 1912, I assure you.

In fact, the wealthy elite were fleeing the horsey scene as fast as they could in those days. It was the military who wanted it included (along with shooting, wrestling, rowing, fencing, 3 day eventing etc. etc.) because the common man COULD actually stand a chance at competing.

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Response to LiberalFighter (Original post)

Fri Jul 27, 2012, 09:36 PM

11. Not a fan either...

A friend of mine (accidentally, I think) referred to it as "Horse Dancing" which somehow tickled my funny bone.

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Response to LiberalFighter (Original post)

Fri Jul 27, 2012, 09:38 PM

12. Not a fan, but doing that well does require a great deal of skill. (nt)

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Response to LiberalFighter (Original post)

Fri Jul 27, 2012, 09:38 PM

13. Basically, the games are contests of old military skills.

 

I imagine dressage somehow relates to calvary or mounted knights.

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Response to HooptieWagon (Reply #13)

Fri Jul 27, 2012, 09:45 PM

17. Yep, every movement is an old battle movement.

 

Of course nowadays they've strung them together and put them to music to try to ramp up the appeal but basically they were old military skills contests.

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Response to LiberalFighter (Original post)

Fri Jul 27, 2012, 09:59 PM

21. If "The human really doesn't do anything that demonstrates any real talent",

then try getting your family dog to flawlessly perform a series of intricate maneuvers with nothing more than subtle physical cues, let alone master the skills needed to manage a highstrung 1200lb horse at the Olympic level. I've been riding for 40+ years and as skilled as I am, my hat's off to the very talented US Equestrian Team and all the other athletes -- be they two legged or four -- who have the amazing ability to compete at the games.

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Response to procon (Reply #21)

Fri Jul 27, 2012, 10:24 PM

28. I agree.

Although I have never ridden a horse. I've hung out with baby horses, who are very pliable, but never rode.

I think the equestrian events are beautiful.

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Response to LiberalFighter (Original post)

Fri Jul 27, 2012, 10:02 PM

22. Because you do not understand Dresage

 

there is a lot of skill involved on the part of the rider as well.

It might be a rich person's sport, but there is a lot of skill on the part of the rider too. What is funny is that at one time it was part of high end military training for cavalry officers, because learning this is also useful with your battle horse... no, not the dancing part... the learning to communicate with the horse part.

Yup, when growing up I liked it... not because I could have ever afforded to do it, so developed an interest in what is involved... and a well trained dressage horse is something to behold. The dark side, the abuse of animals with people who want to take short cuts, cue the Romneys. No, I am not kidding, one of the horses they sold, they were sued silly, the animal was very much abused.

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Response to LiberalFighter (Original post)

Fri Jul 27, 2012, 10:20 PM

27. really?? dog agility? frog jumping? the horse and human are paired...

it takes skill from both rider and horse.
No?
Then jump on a dressage experienced horse and do it. ( a rhetorical demand )

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Response to LiberalFighter (Original post)

Fri Jul 27, 2012, 10:25 PM

29. Horese dancing is an Olympic sport but baseball is not

Figure that one.

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Response to liberal N proud (Reply #29)

Fri Jul 27, 2012, 11:01 PM

33. Technically speaking, tennis golf and soccer shouldn't be in

 

since they have no history as military skills. However, they were added to increase viewership.
IMO, all the modern spectator sports should be left out, so the lesser known sports can have their moment in the spotlight once every four years.

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Response to LiberalFighter (Original post)

Fri Jul 27, 2012, 10:56 PM

31. I suppose we could add frog jumping?

they do have show jumping (horses)

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Response to LiberalFighter (Original post)

Fri Jul 27, 2012, 11:05 PM

35. It was a military event by the cavalrys of all countries

 

To display obedience using battle movements. Dressage made horses versatile, supple and easy to place between you and a sword or bullet. Civilians did not participate in equine events for a very long time. The word Dressage is the French word for "training". It is not a rich mans sport. I am not rich and I have a median score that places me in the top 20% of competitors in the US.

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Response to LiberalFighter (Original post)

Fri Jul 27, 2012, 11:37 PM

36. I've always thought of any activity requiring scoring by judges to be a discipline rather than

a true sport, but what do I know?

Also, there are some nasty videos on the interwebs showing how abusive dressage training is.

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Response to LiberalFighter (Original post)

Sat Jul 28, 2012, 12:21 AM

37. This really hurts

I've done dressage for years - like 30. It was my first introduction to real riding. It has an extremely generous, giving, forgiving approach to interacting with the horse. I've shown it, and done it simply for riding, control, enjoyment.

Any"thing" in anyone's hands, can be misused. It's usually not the thing itself (internet, guns, politics, tv) that is bad in its essence (unless it is clearly hurtful or damaging, e.g., pollution, abuse, violence), but how it is used, or misused.

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Response to LiberalFighter (Original post)

Sat Jul 28, 2012, 02:45 PM

40. The human spends money.

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