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DonViejo

(60,536 posts)
Tue Mar 6, 2018, 01:42 PM Mar 2018

What Happens After Trump?


March 6, 2018 at 11:18 am EST By Taegan Goddard

David Brooks: “The best indicator we have so far is the example of Italy since the reign of Silvio Berlusconi. And the main lesson there is that once the norms of acceptable behavior are violated and once the institutions of government are weakened, it is very hard to re-establish them. Instead, you get this cycle of ever more extreme behavior, as politicians compete to be the most radical outsider. The political center collapses, the normal left/right political categories cease to apply and you see the rise of strange new political groups that are crazier than anything you could have imagined before.”

“If America follows the Italian example, by 2025 we’ll look back at Trump nostalgically as some sort of beacon of relative normalcy. And by the way, if America follows the Italian example, Trump will never go away.”

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https://politicalwire.com/2018/03/06/what-happens-after-trump/
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Eliot Rosewater

(31,097 posts)
1. What we must acknowledge is HALF almost of this country WANTS this MADNESS
Tue Mar 6, 2018, 01:45 PM
Mar 2018

and dysfunction and hate and intolerance and criminal ratfuck thieving and treason.

Not half, but close. So yes, this becoming the norm is very possible.

Yavin4

(35,357 posts)
8. White entitlement.
Tue Mar 6, 2018, 02:12 PM
Mar 2018

You're 100% correct, and the people that want this the most are those White people who believe that their race is enough to guarantee them access to the middle class. They don't learn from history, nor want to, that it was massive government intervention in the market that created the middle class. Government forced corporations to accept unions and negotiate with them. Government also provided basic safety net programs like Social Security and Medicare. Finally, government directly gave cash payments to returning WWII vets to buy houses and go to college. That's what made the American middle class, not race.

We've have almost 40 years of reversals on those initiatives, and the result is a hollowed out middle class. So, instead of blaming Republicans and corporate America, it's the immigrants fault, African Americans, feminism, etc. Trump's chaos is looked upon as revenge against these groups. They've embraced the chaos like a child flipping over the chess board because they're losing.

Eliot Rosewater

(31,097 posts)
9. Thank you for pointing out how people got where they are and how they would NEVER
Tue Mar 6, 2018, 02:14 PM
Mar 2018

have without the government.

Stupid does not describe these Americans, has to be a stronger word.

PoindexterOglethorpe

(25,750 posts)
4. We will devolve into a has-been country.
Tue Mar 6, 2018, 01:56 PM
Mar 2018

I like to make an analogy to Spain. In the 16th century Spain was a world power, conquering significant parts of the New World. Just note how many countries have Spanish as their first language.

Then there was the defeat of the Spanish Armada in 1588. Had it succeeded we'd probably be speaking Spanish ourselves, Catholicism would have a much tighter hold on the world, and a better alternate historian than I can figure out if the (now Spanish) colonies in North America would have broken away from Greater Spain.

But the crucial decision was to put virtually the entire tax burden of that country and its colonies on the poor. The nobles and the wealthy were essentially exempt. Spain never developed the kind of entrepreneurial middle class that gave the Protestant countries the Industrial Revolution. And yes, with all due respect to the modern Catholic Church, Catholicism did not encourage that sort of thing. Spain became a backwater. In the 20th century it had Francisco Franco. When he died and the crown was restored, the country improved a lot.

I've never been to Spain, most likely won't get there, but if the opportunity arose I'd love to go. It seems like a pretty nice country these days. But it's still a backwater.

Something similar will no doubt play out with this country. Successive governments, will continue to build up our military and tear down social programs and infrastructure, no matter which party is in power. Republicans because that's just what they do, and Democrats because they've been bamboozled by Republican ideology. Spending on science and research is already being cut. The concept of the common good is being trampled. Decent health care is seen as a privilege, not something our society should provide as a matter of course. All regulations are deemed bad, as if there's no need for clean air, water, unadulterated food. The lessons that put those regulations in play are completely forgotten.

We can only hope that in the finals spasms of failure, this country doesn't launch a nuclear war or even a series of conventional wars around the globe. Either could happen. If I'm lucky, I won't live to see it, but I'm only 69 and come from a decently long-lived family. I'm just glad I have no grandchildren (my one son is not very likely to reproduce) and so don't have to despair over their futures.

ck4829

(34,977 posts)
7. Respect for the oval office has been practically eliminated, we need to accept that starting today
Tue Mar 6, 2018, 02:03 PM
Mar 2018

We'll need to have figures that can get respect outside of the government... religious officials, scientists, business leaders. They'll need to become beacons for our policies and society as much as, and really more than the clowns and thieves of our federal government.

I don't really want to rebuild that "respect for the office" either, seeing people respect Trump as POTUS just because he's white, just because he's male, just because he's not-liberal, just because he's not-Obama has been a purely sickening sight.

Phoenix61

(16,954 posts)
10. I disagree
Tue Mar 6, 2018, 02:28 PM
Mar 2018

Our country has been a democracy from the beginning. We don't know any other form of government. Twitler, Ryan, and McConnell are a trifecta of bad but I believe we will survive this. People stopped being engaged in the political process and politicians handled it as well as a 16 year-old left alone for the weekend with mom's credit card and dad's Ferrari. Democracy works but only when we work and a lot of us are working. The Women's March, March for Our Lives and countless Dems running for seats we haven't challenged for years tells me we will survive.

OnDoutside

(19,908 posts)
12. Yes, absolutely. There has been a malaise amongst the majority that you didn't have to work at
Tue Mar 6, 2018, 03:02 PM
Mar 2018

Democracy, but the goings on (not just in the US) over the last number of years is a salutary lesson that the evil that men do is a cancer that must be forever fought.

kentuck

(110,950 posts)
11. Yep.
Tue Mar 6, 2018, 02:41 PM
Mar 2018

once the norms of acceptable behavior are violated and once the institutions of government are weakened, it is very hard to re-establish them.

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