James Holmes Claims Amnesia: Alleged 'Dark Knight' Shooter Wonders Why He's Arrested

[CanonRay]

James Holmes, the suspected shooter in last week's movie theater massacre, has told his Colorado jailers he doesn't know why he's locked behind bars, the Daily News reports.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/27/james-holmes-amnesia_n_1709573.html




I seriously hope nobody on the planet believes this bullshit. This asshole thinks he's so much smarter than everyone else he can pull this off. I'll bet the did it just to see if he can get away with it. Get a rope.

[HopeHoops]

1. Yeah, months of planning and then WHAM! No memory. Uh huh.

[Tom Ripley]

2. Interesting. I hear that one more often from murderers who are female rather than male.

[cthulu2016]

3. "Get a rope"

Lovely

[Wait Wut]

4. Jog his memory.

Give him back his notebook...
Hand him all the receipts for the guns/ammo/etc. he had been ordering over months...

Post pictures of the innocent lives he stole all over his cell. Force him to read letters from the survivors.

That should help.

[proud patriot]

55. +++1

[MadHound]

5. Given that he is mentally ill,

This could very well be the case.

Just because somebody is smart doesn't make them a good or convincing actor.

[atreides1]

29. Is he?

No evidence of that so far...and his actions don't mean he's mentally ill.

[MadHound]

35. There is something definitely wrong with anybody who goes out and shoots innocent people

Perhaps it won't hold up to a legal challenge, but I guarantee you that something upstairs has slipped, badly, when that happens. Normal, sane people don't shoot down people in cold blood for no reason.

[slackmaster]

74. It's quite common for mentally ill defendants to be found competent to stand trial

Mental illness and mental incompetence are completely different concepts. A person can be mentally incompetent simply due to low intelligence. A paranoid schizophrenic can be severely mentally ill but still able to tell right from wrong. OTOH someone who is having severe hallucinations may be found to be incompetent.

[Scootaloo]

57. He's white.

White mass murderers are always mentally ill, the poor dears. Have you no heart?

[slackmaster]

73. I think shooting up a theater full of innocent people is a strong indication he's not all there

[HappyMe]

6. Okay then.

[struggle4progress]

7. Amnesia and Crime

J Am Acad Psychiatry Law 35:4:469-480 (December 2007)

Dominique Bourget, MD and
Laurie Whitehurst, PhD

... In a recent Canadian case, a nurse experienced a dissociative episode when an elderly bedridden patient yelled at her for accidentally spilling a bedpan. With her emotional triggers setting off her dissociative behavior, she did not recall using a metal table leg to strike repeatedly and kill the patient, who died of a severe brain injury. She had had previous amnestic episodes and received a diagnosis of dissociative disorder ...

Offenders who claim amnesia for crimes are, on average, older and may have more prior convictions than those who do not claim amnesia. It has been noted that offenders who claim crime-related dissociative amnesia often alert the police to their crimes and are less likely to deny the offense than are those who do not claim amnesia ...

Amnesia due to a psychotic episode is illustrated in a case examined by one of the authors (DB), of a man in his early 20s who was involved in repeated incidents of physical assault on adolescent victims. The man's behavior and thinking were severely disorganized, and he was unable to provide a coherent account of the incidents. His psychotic state and disorganized, unpredictable behavior had developed in a progressive fashion ...

Another interpretation of crime-related amnesia acknowledges the likelihood that some offenders intentionally fabricate memory loss to avoid punishment for a crime or for other personal gain. While an early study reported that 20 percent of the offenders claiming amnesia were fabricating the memory loss, it has been suggested that the rate of malingering is higher. The likelihood of malingered amnesia may be greater in offenders with antisocial personality disorder. Using polygraphy, Lynch and Bradford showed that offenders with antisocial personality disorder have a higher propensity to feign amnesia for crimes, compared with those with no personality disorder or other psychopathologic disorders. It has been suggested that offenders with antisocial personality disorder may be prone to malingering amnesia for crimes in part because of the tendencies of manipulation, habitual deceit, and a general poverty in major affective reactions that characterize this disorder. Other authors have noted the possible contribution of low intelligence and frontal executive dysfunction to the feigning of amnesia for crimes. However, as it is possible that highly intelligent malingerers are more adept at feigning amnesia for crimes and may thus evade detection and less frequently receive a diagnosis of malingering, further research may help to clarify a link between low intelligence/frontal executive dysfunction and feigned amnesia ...

http://www.jaapl.org/content/35/4/469.full

informative article, from a canadian legal pov

[RKP5637]

79. Quite informative and interesting! Thanks for posting this and the link! n/t

[RedStateLiberal]

8. Oh boy

The conspiracy theory paranoids will have a field day with this. I'm sure he's some kind of "manchurian candidate" brainwashed by the UN or some other BS.

[Tom Ripley]

18. The MK-Ultra Redux speculations started popping up as soon as the story broke

[nadinbrzezinski]

21. Let's add some to the sauce since we had them here

1.- Dad did programing for financial company (True), therefore, he was about to testify to Congress on LIBOR. (Jump)

2.- There was an exercise for disaster exercise involving a mass shooting in a theater (true), therefore this was a false flag operation, (jump)

I just love some of the way fantasy conspiracies come.

[Tom Ripley]

34. I want to try to work the Project Monarch angle into it (I find it particularly entertaining)

[nadinbrzezinski]

36. Now that is a funny

[Tom Ripley]

40. "The Illuminati, Nazis, Disney and Tuesday Weld are behind it!"

[RedStateLiberal]

43. I knew it!

[COLGATE4]

64. Don't forget the Masons!! nt

[Tom Ripley]

67. Well, that's a given :)

[SidDithers]

23. Raymond Shaw is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human being I've ever known in my life

Sid

[Blue_Tires]

27. I suggest you calm the hell down and play some solitaire!

[RedStateLiberal]

41. Huh?

[tiny elvis]

65. watch the movie you referred to nt

[RedStateLiberal]

69. I have but it was about 25 years ago

so I didn't get the reference.

It looked like a reply directed at me telling me to "calm the hell down" but I get it now.

[nadinbrzezinski]

62. You realize we are making fun of the CT crowd RIGHT?

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. Two ponts

You would not go through the legal process since it would make you feel better? Guess what, that is not what civilized societies do.

secondly, as shocking as it might be to you, this is also another REASON FOR THE LEGALLY REQUIRED COMPETENCY HEARING, this is classic dissociative behavior... but hey,

Get a rope, that speaks volumes about YOU.

[CanonRay]

13. Whoa, easy Nadine

just a figure of speech as if to say there's no way he can get away with this. He'll get his trial...just wish I could get on the jury. Jeez, you people are touchy.

[nadinbrzezinski]

15. Actually by that comment

you do not belong in the jury.

And should be disqualified from it very fast.

[zappaman]

20. Again with the lectures?

Do you ever stop?

[white_wolf]

25. Two short sentences is a "lecture?"

[MNBrewer]

80. Exactly, lectures are supposed to contain the truth right? I guess the truth hurt.

And the OP doesn't belong on a jury for this (or probably any other) crime.

Get a rope, indeed.

[MNBrewer]

77. Why would you want to be on the jury?

You are completely incapable of providing an objective verdict as evidenced by your "get a rope" comment.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

31. "this is classic dissociative behavior"

How so?

[nadinbrzezinski]

39. You might want to read on it

But we saw it often with Psychiatric patients.

This is why A COMPETENCY HEARING IS ESSENTIAL to establish that while he might be loon as can be, he UNDERSTANDS what is going on and CAN STAND TRIAL.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

42. Nah. I was hopping you would explain...

... how someone can plan for a month, spend hundreds (thousands?) of dollars in preparation via internet and mail. Post on dating sites hinting at his crimes. Set booby traps. Do the murders. Tell the cops his place is booby-trapped.

And THEN claim amnesia.

How is that a "classic" case?

You will have to tell me your credentials if I am to defer to your "knowledge" on the matter. If your experience consists, as I suspect, of only driving an ambulance, your experience is lacking to make such a complex case diagnosis.

[zappaman]

44. It is a "classic case".

Suffice it to say, you have not watched many movies.
Sometimes just falling down can bring about amnesia.
After you do some reading, check out a couple of the 3 STOOGES shorts that feature amnesia.

Also, questioning the knowledge of the one person on DU who knows it all is a bit silly, yup.

[slackmaster]

52. Amnesia is not the proper term. What we are talking about here is actually denial.

HTH

[nadinbrzezinski]

56. I am not making any diagnosis

bob. I am patiently waiting for the COMPETENCY hearing...

But whatever bob, welcome to the ignore list, I have repeatedly said we NEED TO WAIT FOR IT.

Though evidence continues to emerge that INDEED WE NEED ONE and that INDEED THIS BOY was under the care of a psychiatrist.

Now if suggesting that this is a POSSIBILITY is making a diagnosis, then perhaps you need to learn how to fracking read.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

63. You said, VERY CLEARLY, that this was a "classic case"

When I asked you how, you told me to "read on it" and "we saw it often with Psychiatric patients"

Now you are saying the complete opposite.

It's a classic case alright: make a ridiculous assertion, demand the other poster "read on it", and then act all condescending and "ignore" when called on it.

[slackmaster]

51. She's absolutely right about that. I've seen it happen to someone who was very close to me.

Her suicide attempt was plain as day to two police officers, a psychiatric nurse, and to me. But she didn't see it, and insisted until the day she succeeded in taking her own life that it was all just a cry for attention.

[Duer 157099]

10. Sounds like something Bush Admin people said to Congress

The number of times we've heard that excuse... shouldn't be surprising that the little people are using it now too

[Odin2005]

11. Liar.

So much for my guess that he is mentally ill.

[nadinbrzezinski]

16. Actually it is consistent with schizophrenia.

why we need a competency hearing.

[Aerows]

12. I'm not an expert

So I'm not going to pretend to be one. I'll wait and see what comes out before I make judgments. It seems odd that he could plan all of this and not remember it, but I'm no expert in psychiatry. Obviously *something* is gravely wrong with him if he could do this, but what to do with him is up to the experts.

[HooptieWagon]

14. Complete BS.

Oh, he'll get a competency hearing, and he'll attempt to con the psychiatrists. But in the end, he'll be judged legally sane and competent to stand trial. He did't suddenly snap, there were months of careful planning before the crime... months of knowing exactly what he was doing.

[nadinbrzezinski]

17. Remember, the standard for beingn declared insane for a court of law

is very much higher than being plainly mentally ill. He might as well be a loon, and still be declared able to stand trial. Or if he meets the standard, same fate as Loughner... who also had some planning.

[HooptieWagon]

26. Yes, I'm aware of that.

There's no question there's something wrong with him. Here in FL, the bar is very high for a "not guilty by reason of insanity" case. Defendant pretty much has to be a drooling babbling idiot completely unaware of his surroundings or actions. I don't know where Colorado sets the bar.

[nadinbrzezinski]

30. That is actually pretty much national

the reason why Loughner has not gone beyond the competency hearing and is heavily medicated, is that he was completely out of it.

Holmes behavior tells me he might very well be schizophrenic, he may very well have had a dissociative episode, and it matches for when Schizo shows up. In my mind, if he spends the rest of his life in a hospital for the mentally insane or prison, is immaterial to me. That boy, like Loughner, ain't seeing freedom anytime soon.

Now if Holmes ends in a similar limbo as Loughner, we really need to ask how we, as a society, can detect these issues earlier, and chiefly treat them? Part of the complex response we need to these things.

[zappaman]

33. So, in addition to being a cop, firefighter, marine, EMT, trained historian, and a journalist...

you are also a doctor?
Good to know!

[HooptieWagon]

45. Thanks for the info,

I was not aware that standard was nationally uniform.

Agree with you about diagnosing these people early, and getting them in treatment. Not sure how that can be done... especially if they refuse and have no prior instances of violence. In Holmes' case, there were plenty of red flags, but no one in a position to see them all... just one usually isn't enough to trigger alarms.

His competency will be decided on whether he's competent to aid in his defense or not. Given his proven ability to plan well in advance, no matter his mental state at the crime scene, I'd say he has a tough row to hoe. I would expect psychiatrists would be able to root out the conjobs and manipulators, and thats my reading of Holmes. I'm no expert, though.

[nadinbrzezinski]

58. None of us are

the insanity defense is standard. And whether he will meet that or not time will tell.

I remember with Loughner many here said he was acting too. So at this point we all can wait.

But for the moment we do know, emerged today, that he was indeed under the care of an MD.

For the record, Loughner was not.

[rox63]

19. But he was able to remember to tell the cops his apartment was booby-trapped

I don't see this strategy getting him anywhere.

[Brickbat]

24. I'm interestedin his reaction, then, when he's told what happened.

[siligut]

28. He could be attempting a Sirhan Sirhan imitation

There just isn't enough information available to us to determine that. Dissociative disorders do indeed exist and it is possible for an alter personality to take over for an extended period of time. The dyed hair, that he was just standing around after the shooting, that he had been seeing a psychiatrist, these things that we have been told give some credence to his story.

Leave it to the professionals and hope they are good enough to do their job.

[soccer1]

32. Maybe he can't face what he did, so he has blocked it out, amnesia.

This can happen to people who have been traumatized.If that were to be the case, I doubt that would be accepted as a symptom of "legal insanity",unless he was in an altered state during the rampage....but the planning he did wouldn't seem to point to that. He'll be evaluated.....will be interesting. I doubt he'll win a legal insanity defense....but all these "symptoms" will be helpful for the defense....if not for the verdict, for the sentencing phase.

[treestar]

60. I've run across the idea that the killer is also "traumatized" by the incident

Not that it's an excuse or anything, but psychologically it counts as a traumatizing incident.

[mike_c]

37. you-- of course-- are better informed about his circumstances than any one else...

...so let's all "get a rope" and meet in the town square at midnight! Torches and pitchforks!

[Douglas Carpenter]

38. I don't know about that..but, I still don't think he is normal

[HooptieWagon]

48. Nobody who does that is normal.

The competency hearing os held to answer the questions:
Did he know right from wrong?
Is (was) he aware of his surroundings?
Is he capable of assisting lawyers in his defense?

[eShirl]

46. So why does he think he's spitting at everybody?

[zappaman]

47. Spitting on people is what amnesiacs do.

Don't you watch movies?

[Ruby the Liberal]

49. This is like a script of Primal Fear.

The book, not the movie adaption (which was lousy in comparison).

"What if there never was an Aaron..."

[slackmaster]

50. You might be surprised how well denial can suppress information that is obvious to everyone else

From my comfortable window seat with a nice view, hundreds of miles away, I am not going to presume to say what is going inside of that troubled young man's head.

He's obviously very deeply disturbed. Maybe he's lying, maybe not. It really doesn't matter.

[proud patriot]

53. good grief

what does he want us to believe he's dr jekyl and mr hyde ..... no no no he may have studied nuero science, but I seriously doubt it.

[Judi Lynn]

54. What's a rope? I can't remember. n/t

[Gin]

59. Maybe he was under

The influence of Ambien.... Just adding my 2 cents.

[Lex]

61. "Get a rope" discredits everything you said preceding that. nt

[CanonRay]

70. See reply to #9 above

Again, jeez you people are touchy.

[librechik]

66. This post is a prime example of the ignorance and demonization so prevalent about mental illness

In our society. some of the responses make me lose hope for mankind.

Please leave the diagnoses to the experts. You have nothing but a sharp tongue to back up your opinion. Are you a trained psychiatrist? If not, take it to yahoo. You don't know what you are talking about.

[CanonRay]

68. No, but I do retain a shred of common sense

Apparently, that is not as common as previously thought.

[librechik]

71. common? facile

look up mercy in the dictionary. You might not know the depth of such a concept

[slackmaster]

72. I suspect you have little or no experience dealing with severely mentally ill people

James Holmes is obviously deeply disturbed. Details like whether he really remembers what he did or not are not important, and may be unknowable.

What matters to the court is whether or not he is mentally competent to stand trial. The court will decide one way or another. That fork in the road will have a huge impact on how the state treats the defendant, but either way he'll never walk free again.

[Lex]

75. Common being the operative word. "Get a rope" says it all. nt

[MNBrewer]

76. Vigilantism alive and well on DU. So nice to see that it's still around

Who needs that silly "due process" any more. That's so 18th Century. The world changed on 9/11 after all, right?

[Skidmore]

78. This from a neuroscience student interested in creating your own historical memory?

Call me shocked!

[Kalidurga]

81. If he says he doesn't know why he is behind bars...

Isn't the same as saying he doesn't remember. In his twisted mind he might wonder what all the fuss is about. He just shot 70 people. He might have seen hundreds of violent acts in movies where the villain gets away with a lot more than that. OTOH, he might be saying he has amnesia. He might actually have amnesia. But, it doesn't matter amnesia doesn't make a person innocent of a crime. I really don't care if he ends up in jail or a mental institution for the rest of his life.