A weird thought about the school shooter

[grumpyduck]

Not use if this is a weird thought, or an evil one, or a spot-on one, but here goes...

The media has reported that there were a number of reports about the shooter: to the FBI, the school, the Sheriff's Dept, and other local agencies. Nothing was done.

[edit] The shooter is white. I have to wonder if things had gone differently if he were black.

[ExciteBike66]

1. I think one really has to wonder what would have happened if he was...

Muslim.

[brush]

3. We all know if he was Muslim, black or brown he'd already be in jail.

[lapfog_1]

27. more likely he would be dead.

[Fred Sanders]

6. I wonder if OP's from new posters are just here to "stir things up"...word to the wise about that.

[grumpyduck]

8. Good question

But I've already begun to wonder if some comments from old posters are just there to put down the new posters.

Kinda like what DT does on Twitter.

[pnwmom]

14. What about that post made you think that? The fact of possible racial discrimination

is not a controversial topic around here.

[EffieBlack]

31. The OP is a logical and important question

Why are you suggesting that its purpose is to "stir things up" as if that's a bad thing?

[tazkcmo]

51. Plenty of shit stirring

From older members so why shouldn't newer members get a turn at the spoon? A low post count is just that. I lurked for several years before my first post and, as you can see, still have a relatively low count since actually joining. Stirring shit is a favorite past time of several on this board.

[Moostache]

2. To answer your question run this thought experiment...

What would be the outcome tomorrow if 100,000 black men bought AR-15's in Florida?
Would the guns still be legal by Thursday?

[brush]

5. Good one. That's how one zeros in on a proposition.

[LAGC]

10. That's how it worked in California.

A few Black Panthers showed up on the statehouse steps toting shotguns, and the Republicans were tripping over themselves to pass some serious gun control in short order.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mulford_Act

[pangaia]

53. Or if a couple hundred black men, or brown men, or Muslims decided to sit outside a couple hundred

school with AR-15s to 'protect' the students..?

[NCTraveler]

4. Not sure why you think posing that thought would be Florida specific.

It's called systemic oppression and happens in all states.

"Now, this was in Florida and the shooter is white."

I have found out that my own allies truly have no idea how bad racism and oppression are in this country.

[grumpyduck]

7. Didn't think it was Florida-specific at all

I just mentioned it as part of the background. But you make a good point.

[DrDan]

9. yes it was in Florida . . . so what is your point?

[grumpyduck]

12. If you read the OP, I didn't have a POINT

I had a QUESTION. And it's been pretty well answered by the responses above.

[Yonnie3]

15. I've re-read and I don't see a question. n/t

[grumpyduck]

20. Maybe we need to get some English teachers involved

but I believe that "I have to wonder if things had gone differently if he were black" qualifies as a question. At least most of the posters here took it that way. And they gave polite responses.

Okay, since the issue is being pushed: "Would things have gone differently, in any of the fifty states, if the shooter had been black?"

[Yonnie3]

25. You edit your post after I read it and then write this?

See you around DU.

[grumpyduck]

37. Okay, help me out

You called me out on another OP and I admitted you had a point and revised my comments. But I'm not clear on your comment just now. Are you giving me a or a ?

[Yonnie3]

57. Called you out on another OP?

I don't recall that, unless you have an entirely different meaning for calling out than I do.

I'm done with this discussion. If you care to respond, I'll let you have the last word.

[DrDan]

17. so why bring up the fact it happened in Florida?

[pnwmom]

13. Why are you giving the poster a hard time? The point, obviously,

is he was probably treated differently than a P.O.C. would have been.

[DrDan]

16. because it happened in Florida?

[EffieBlack]

39. Probably because it happened in America. n/t

[DrDan]

40. I assume you saw the post before the edit. "It was in Florida. The shooter was white."

Are you ok with that? Does that not suggest a racist view of Florida?

[uponit7771]

56. +1

[EffieBlack]

32. This is ridiculous

The poster asked a perfectly logical question and rather than respond to the question, people are questioning the OP's motive in asking it.

This seems to happen an awful lot on DU where some - too many - supposedly progressive people immediately begin to circle the wagons the minute the issue of race is brought up.

[DrDan]

41. I am not ok with a post that brings up a question regarding race and then points to Florida.

Nothing wrong with the question - it was valid. But why was it necessary for the poster to specifically point out that it happened in Florida and the shooter was white. What assumption is being made?

[EffieBlack]

43. No one is allowed to suggest that Florida has a problem with racism?

Bullshit.

[DrDan]

44. and racism is isolated to Florida?

BS

[EffieBlack]

47. Oh, please

Take this crap to someone who's interested in jumping through your bullshit hoops. I'm not wasting any more time with you. Take it somewhere else. I see right through you.

[DrDan]

48. I'll stand by my comments

[Binkie The Clown]

11. The real question is how many such reports do they get in a day?

How many suspicious neighbors or family members call in to report a potentially dangerous individual? Is it once a week, or four times a day? How many people does the FBI have available to follow up on those reports?

[treestar]

19. And what can they do if he has not broken laws as of yet

or is not certifiable?

[jberryhill]

26. Yup

[Ligyron]

30. Precisely.

There's little they can do the way the laws are now. The 2nd Amendment trumps public safety and common sense. Unless he does something blatantly illegal with his weapon we're all out of luck. Now if he waves the gun around with police present and refuses to drop it, they'll shoot him. There ought to be a few options before that happens. Trump got skewed yesterday for suggesting we avoid due process in the interest of public safety.

[maxsolomon]

18. If my Aunt had balls,

I wonder if she'd be my Uncle?

Nice try. Not buying. No one else should, either.

Добро пожаловать в Du

[grumpyduck]

21. Okay, two things

I'm totally lost with the English, not to mention the Greek. Would you please explain your comments?

And two, my Dad used to say "Aquila non capit muscas" (from your signature line) now and then. You're only the second person I've ever heard that from.

[maxsolomon]

23. your post is divisive, your post count is low

so you're suspect to me. it's "welcome to DU" in Cyrillic. if you're here in good faith, sorry. I'm quite vexed lately and it shows.

'Aquila non capit muscas' was my reaction after 9/11 when we started a war (endless it turns out) to kill one man, OBL. I learned it during a short-lived fascination with Latin.

[grumpyduck]

24. Well, there you go... I can't tell Cyrillic from Greek

But thank you for responding. I appreciate that.

Yes, I'm here in good faith, I'm not a troll, and I think you would realize that if you read some of my other posts. And I can't increase my post count until I've been here and posted for a while.

Now, as to my post being divisive. If that's a reference to my mentioning Florida, I've already revised the OP to delete that reference. In hindsight, it had nothing to do with my "wondering what would have happened..." Now, if being divisive refers to my wondering if things would have worked out differently if the shooter had not been white, then I have to admit I don't understand how that is divisive. Given other posts I've seen here at DU, commenting on possible racial discrimination is okay.

As a couple of posters above mentioned, things probably would have been different afterwards if the shooter had not been white. They expressed their opinions, and that's all I was looking for.

Again, thank you for responding and cluing me in.

[EffieBlack]

33. Asking a question about racism is not "divisive"

You know what's divisive? Racism. Racism is divisive.

Refusing to discuss racism is divisive.

Attacking people for trying to talk about racism is divisive.

But asking questions about racism is what we're SUPPOSED to do.

[maxsolomon]

35. DU is filled with divisiveness.

I am not refusing to discuss racism. I am suspicious of low-count posters with divisive posts on racism.

"What would everyone say if X was black (or white)?" is not a particularly insightful OP. I think we know the answers because racism and bias is endemic to America.

Regardless, I already apologized.

[EffieBlack]

38. It may not be "insightful" to you but it's a very important question.

But if you don't think it's insightful enough, why not just ignore it instead of questioning the motives of the OP?

The fact that a question may make some people uncomfortable doesn't mean it's divisive - but it does suggest that it is very insightful.

[maxsolomon]

42. I explained myself.

I explained why I didn't ignore it. I'm sorry if that's not good enough for you, or you feel that divisive OPs from low-count posters aren't an issue in this era of trolls and sock puppets. I do.

I have seen variants of this OP countless times on DU. Its a knee-jerk hypothetical with only 1 answer, and its the same one every time. We are all aware that hypocrisy abounds in America, and conservatives are blind to their bias.

To state the contrary, i.e. "it would be treated just the same" is to invite condemnation.

[EffieBlack]

46. This has nothing to do with trolls

This is all about so-called progressives adopting the right ring racist approach of blaming people who raise the issue of racism for being "divisive."

I don't care if someone has one post to their name. They have every right to raise a question about racism and not be accused of being "divisive." The fact that you seem more concerned about the supposed supposed "divisiveness" of a question about racism than you are about the racism being questioned speaks volumes.

[grumpyduck]

49. Geez, I was so ready to move on from this

But you bring up a point: low count posters bringing up divisive subjects could be perceived as trolls.

Now, bear with me for a moment. A low count poster is probably someone who is fairly new at DU. A "divisive" subject could be interpreted as a subject that people feel very strongly about one way or the other. I still haven't seen a definition of what "divisive" means here, even though I've asked more than once.

Okay, so imagine a brand-new member of a legislative body (city, county, state, or federal). He or she takes a seat and proceeds to do nothing but listen and vote for the first year; he or she introduces no new bills because he or she is new and is afraid longer-standing members will think he or she is a troll, especially if the subject can be perceived by a few as "controversial." How would that lawmaker be perceived by constituents and peers?

I'm not a lawmaker (thank heavens), but if I join a group like this, that covers a subject I feel very strongly about (a political party I support, in the nation I have chosen to live in), I will participate. And if a handful of people choose to believe I'm a troll... well, the First Amendment protects their right to do so just like it protects my right to ask questions and express my opinion.

Point being, we all start with one post and go from there. And I'll bet that members here do not go back thru years of archives to find out if a "variant" of their question has been asked or addressed previously, or if it's been judged "insightful" or not. Any given day, I see essentially the same OP subject posted several times by different posters, so I have to believe doing so is not a violation of the terms of use.

Now, can we please move on?????

[Fred Sanders]

52. Same quesiton asked over and over at DU resulting always in divisiveness.

Russia 1, DU 0. Look at the result of the OP rather than the unknown intent.

Some are better than others at "sowing".

[EffieBlack]

54. If the new rule is that no one can raise a question or issue that's been previously discussed

DU might as well fold.

The fact that a question makes YOU uncomfortable doesn't make it divisive. And the fact that you think a question about racism is divisive AND you feel entitled to tell a person on a political message board whether they should or should not raise it says far more about you than it does about either the question or the person who asked it.

[LanternWaste]

22. My fundamental concern at the moment is that the event of two weeks ago

My fundamental concern at the moment is that the event of two weeks ago will most likely happen again in a mere eight to twelve more weeks.

[heaven05]

28. I think

The shooter would be dead, dead, dead!!!! The trumppets would be calling for the lynching of every AA man, woman and CHILD. This is ameriKKKa, you know. Always has been ameriKKKa and will take generations, again, to take the KKK out of America, if possible. Which I seriously doubt. America has been soiled, sullied and shit wipe stained by the POS CALLED potus, his administration, the racists in Congress who are legion and his deplorables possibly beyond any redemption.

Nothing wrong with your question. It is valid.

[EffieBlack]

34. I have a high post count, so I'LL ask: How would the shooter have been treated if he were black?

You can direct your responses to Grumpyduck.

I'm not sure why the OP is being attacked for asking this question or why their post count matters. Obviously, they hit a little too close to home for certain folk who think that a progressive Democratic discussion board is not the place for discussing race in America. Go figure.

Anyway, welcome to DU, Grumpyduck.

[grumpyduck]

36. Thank you

WOW!!!!!

I had no idea (what I thought was) a simple question would generate so much... ummm... discord. Then again, I haven't been at DU long enough to notice the divisiveness mentioned above. I've worked with organizations where people couldn't disagree without taking it personally, and I always thought it was a shame... not to mention being an unpleasant place to work.

But again, thank you to those of you who offered an opinion as to my "wondering about" in the OP.

[lame54]

45. Yeah - he wouldn't have shot up a school

[FarCenter]

50. Would the gun store have sold him an AR-15?

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

55. Probably not.

The underlying issue is that law enforcement has other things to do than follow up on reports like the ones you're referring to. I doubt they have any system to log the reports so they can notice that there are lots of them on one person. It seems as though we only know of those reports from the people who originally filed them, not from the agencies that got them.

Also, the different agencies don't cooperate with each other on these things.

It goes back in the end to the all too easy availability of guns.