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EX500rider

(10,809 posts)
Sun Feb 25, 2018, 12:33 PM Feb 2018

North Korea Concludes The North Is Screwed

"The recent change of attitude by North Korea towards South Korea could be attributed to a number of obvious factors like the continued collapse of the North Korean economy along with morale and effectiveness of the North Korean military and security forces in general. Recent defectors from North Korea report that conditions inside the military are bad and getting worse. Physical exams of these defectors confirms those reports.

But there is another reason for the change of attitude that was not commented on much because of the sensitive nature of the information. In short, at the end of 2017 North Korea got a look at South Korean and American war plans and were alarmed at what they found. The northerners had every reason to believe this information was accurate because in late 2017 South Korean military networks were hacked and a large quantity of secret documents appear to have been copied. This apparently included several OPLANs (Operational Plan, a plan for a single or series of connected operations to be carried out simultaneously or in succession by specified military units). American OPLANs after World War II often involved allied forces and there are a number that involve South Korea. The hackers are believed to have taken OPLAN 5015 (joint U.S.-South Korean response to all-out war with North Korea) and OPLAN 3100 (South Korean only responses to various North Korean local provocations.) OPLANs are typically updated frequently (even daily) in times of crises so what the North Koreans may have got could already be out-of-date. However OPLANs also include a lot of operational details that do not change much over time so grabbing even one version of a particular OPLAN has its uses.

In response to this latest hack South Korea quickly ordered some changes in its Cyber War defenses. OPLANs were apparently also updated to minimize the damage done by North Korea possibly having some current as of late 2016. What was scary about all this from the North Korean viewpoint was that the OPLANs detailed capabilities many North Korean generals believed were enemy propaganda. But OPLAN documents are top secret and only for internal use. No need for propaganda there and that made it clear the North Korean military was a lot more vulnerable than North Koreans realized. The South Korean and American intelligence knew a lot more about the location and status of North Korean weapons than the North Korean generals had believed. Not only that but the OPLANS described in detail how the many modern weapons the South Koreans had, like smart bombs and guided missiles, would be able to do a lot more damage to the North Korean military and do it faster than the North Koreans had believed possible. The OPLANS described how the North Korean air defense system would be quickly destroyed and South Korean and American commando teams would hit key targets. OPLANS made reference to messages broadcast to North Korean civilians emphasizing help (food, medical care, elimination of the police state) was on the way. While many North Koreans would fight to defend the Kim dynasty the North Korean secret police (that monitored public attitudes) knew that a growing number of North Koreans would welcome the southerners as liberators.

Once the North Korean hackers delivered the stolen OPLANs documents in September 2017 it took a few months for the military and other security agencies up north to digest all this information and conclude that the north was screwed. Supreme leader Kim Jong Un was briefed, followed by him firing another few senior advisers who were apparently on the wrong side of this new reality. Kim then told South Korea that he wanted to improve relations, send a delegation to the Winter Olympics and get together with South Korea leaders to have friendly discussions about matters of mutual interest."

https://strategypage.com/htmw/htintel/articles/20180223.aspx

Who'd have thought the S Korean military getting hacked could have good results...lol

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Takket

(21,528 posts)
9. Russia either did it directly or helped NK do it
Mon Feb 26, 2018, 01:01 AM
Feb 2018

You can count on that.

Putin's cyber warfare division doesn't just target Hillary

 

FarCenter

(19,429 posts)
3. Probably because they are finished with the nuclear tests - they, like Pakistan, exploded 6 devices
Sun Feb 25, 2018, 01:13 PM
Feb 2018

Their last appears to have been a thermonuclear device in the 50 kiloton and up range.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_nuclear_weapons_tests_of_North_Korea
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_nuclear_weapons_tests_of_Pakistan

They have no need to do further testing, at least for the next couple of years, so this is an opportunity to relax tensions.

South Korea probably doesn't care much about their ICBM program because short range missiles would reach South Korea.

So it is in both North and South Korea's interest to talk now.

Turbineguy

(37,291 posts)
4. There was a story on the late 70's or early 80's
Sun Feb 25, 2018, 02:06 PM
Feb 2018

About US missile guidance modules being shipped to Europe on an East German vessel. The reason was that the Russians had poor guidance systems so they made the bombs bigger. By having better guidance systems they could make the bombs smaller, hence, less damage.

soryang

(3,299 posts)
5. It is Moon's presidency that opened the dialogue not military threats.
Sun Feb 25, 2018, 02:18 PM
Feb 2018

People who are incapable of reading or understanding Korean history or domestic politics will never get this, it's always about the latest military technology.

Moon has sent unmistakable signs in his public statements since taking office that he is willing to resume the dialogue and improve the social, political, and economic interaction between the two Korean states, now that the previous militarist factions on the right are out of office and on the way to prison where they belong.

All three experts none of them liberals by any means at the Armed Services Committee hearings on Jan. 30, said a US military option with respect to North Korea was unreasonable.



EX500rider

(10,809 posts)
6. N Korea has had 50 years to make useful talks with the South
Sun Feb 25, 2018, 03:09 PM
Feb 2018

If you think they aren't afraid of the US using the military option you aren't in their shoes...they saw what happened to Saddam and Gaddafi and the Taliban, no matter how those turned out they didn't turn out well for the previous leaders which is all Kim Jong-un cares about. He knows if it goes hot he has drones looking for him 24/7 and they will eventually get him.

The South has tried to open up to the south, including putting industrial zones in the North, it did not work out.

soryang

(3,299 posts)
7. What about the Agreed Framework?
Sun Feb 25, 2018, 11:27 PM
Feb 2018

"In 2000, president Kim Dae Jung defied Washington’s warnings and agreed to a historic summit with North Korean leader, Kim Jong-il. Shortly thereafter, George W. Bush declared the DPRK a member of the “axis of evil” and formally withdrew the United States from an earlier Agreed Framework that had frozen North Korea’s incipient nuclear program for eight years."

https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/02/09/south-korea-straying-off-the-leash/

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