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Wed Feb 14, 2018, 02:35 PM

speaking of the $1.5 trillion republican tax cut -- remember how much obama's stimulus cost?

that's right, the stimulus that republicans howled about as unjustified and hugely expensive and my, oh, my, the deficits?

the stimulus that was necessary to keep our cratering economy from diving head-first into depression?

that stimulus?

around $800 billion, give or take.


that $800 billion saved us from catastrophe and many economists say it should have been bigger, we might have had a quicker recovery then.


*that*, republicans say, was irresponsible fiscal management and deficits and blah, blah, blah.


but $1.5 trillion when the economy is doing fine and inflation is the bigger danger, oh, that's just peachy with republicans.



don't buy their bull on the deficit *ever* again.

they are partisan liars, plain and simple.

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Reply speaking of the $1.5 trillion republican tax cut -- remember how much obama's stimulus cost? (Original post)
unblock Feb 2018 OP
bronxiteforever Feb 2018 #1
genxlib Feb 2018 #2
ProfessorGAC Feb 2018 #3
niyad Feb 2018 #4
asiliveandbreathe Feb 2018 #5
unblock Feb 2018 #9
global1 Feb 2018 #6
unblock Feb 2018 #10
Hermit-The-Prog Feb 2018 #12
gilligan Feb 2018 #14
genxlib Feb 2018 #7
unblock Feb 2018 #11
genxlib Feb 2018 #13
unblock Feb 2018 #15
ffr Feb 2018 #8
IronLionZion Feb 2018 #16
unblock Feb 2018 #17
UCmeNdc Feb 2018 #18
Roy Rolling Feb 2018 #19
House of Roberts Feb 2018 #20
unblock Feb 2018 #21

Response to unblock (Original post)

Wed Feb 14, 2018, 02:47 PM

1. Kick and recommend.

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Response to unblock (Original post)

Wed Feb 14, 2018, 02:51 PM

2. And a big chunk of that was tax cuts to get their votes

Actual stimulative spending was only a part of the total.

I remember a rightwing colleague giving me shit for their not being more direct infrastructure spending in the package (since we are in the infrastructure business). I laid into him for being a hypocrite and asked how much his candidate would have provided.

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Response to genxlib (Reply #2)

Wed Feb 14, 2018, 02:54 PM

3. Thanks

Was about to point that out. Also, remember the howling by the debt hawks over the auto industry bailout? Remember that those companies paid it back WITH INTEREST? Yeah, you probably remember. They don't.

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Response to unblock (Original post)

Wed Feb 14, 2018, 03:06 PM

4. k and r

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Response to unblock (Original post)

Wed Feb 14, 2018, 03:20 PM

5. So - as the debt rises, is it my understanding, once the debt reaches a certain level

- cuts to other areas automatically kick in?? - Funds from Medicare..Medicaid..social safety nets..I will research further....ALL for them, none for us...

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Response to asiliveandbreathe (Reply #5)

Wed Feb 14, 2018, 04:15 PM

9. my understanding is the latest 2-year agreement suspends that nonsense.

but they'll find other ways to kill off people in need, they certainly always try....

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Response to unblock (Original post)

Wed Feb 14, 2018, 03:37 PM

6. Doesn't Thom Hartmann Have Something To Say About This....

I remember him saying something that - The Repugs spend money and amp up the deficit so that when the Dems come in they have to do cuts. There was some guy that posed that theory and the Repugs use this to their advantage.

Does anyone know what I'm thinking of?

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Response to global1 (Reply #6)

Wed Feb 14, 2018, 04:17 PM

10. don't remember that angle specifically, but it's long been a theory about taxes.

republicans cut taxes too low and loot the treasury and force democrats to raise taxes and restrain spending in order to get our fiscal house in order. then republicans come in to loot the treasury again.

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Response to global1 (Reply #6)

Wed Feb 14, 2018, 04:28 PM

12. it's two santas

See link in my 'sig'.

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Response to global1 (Reply #6)

Wed Feb 14, 2018, 04:48 PM

14. Two

Santa Claus theory.

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Response to unblock (Original post)

Wed Feb 14, 2018, 03:39 PM

7. It should also be pointed out

The Obama stimulus was warranted by economic policy. The economy needed the boost during a time of high unemployment and shrinking GDP

The GOP program comes at a time when the economy did not need boosting. At the very least, it is not needed. If anything, goosing an economy at super low unemployment can be dangerously inflationary.

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Response to genxlib (Reply #7)

Wed Feb 14, 2018, 04:20 PM

11. exactly. taxes should be higher when the economy is growing

partly to keep it from overheating, and partly to get the government's fiscal house in order so that there's money available when the economy is in trouble.

then you can stimulate the economy when it's actually needed.

republicans got it backwards because they don't pay attention to the economy. the timing is all political. if they have power, they're cutting taxes, period. doesn't matter if the economy is good or bad.

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Response to unblock (Reply #11)

Wed Feb 14, 2018, 04:37 PM

13. The GOP was particularly craven about this in the early 2000's

2000 - We are running surpluses so we should cut taxes

2001 - The economy is suffering so let's cut taxes.

Tax cuts were the answer no matter what the question.

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Response to genxlib (Reply #13)

Wed Feb 14, 2018, 04:50 PM

15. greenie's testimony really took the cake

i might be able to get convinced that some politicians aren't economists and don't really understand how things work.

dereliction of duty to not get a basic working knowledge when you're proposing tax policy, but at least they're not trained experts.

alan greenspan was a highly regarded economist and fed chairman.

for him to testify, running around like a chicken with his head cut off, crying the disaster that would come from actually paying off the debt in full, pleading for a tax cut because, hell, we've paid down the debt by like 1%, we might even pay it down by 2%, and omg here's the nightmare scenario if we reach 100% without changing any laws and the economy kept humming along as it was.

as if that had any hope of ever happening.

so he put his "serious economist" stamp of approval on another republican ridiculous tax heist with the express purpose of *avoiding* paying down the debt.

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Response to unblock (Original post)

Wed Feb 14, 2018, 03:47 PM

8. Conservatives are spend and spend whores.

Russia Today: America on its way to $30 trillion debt by 2028 as military expenditure soars
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100210226916

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Response to unblock (Original post)

Wed Feb 14, 2018, 04:51 PM

16. When Trump crashes the economy we're going to wish we had that 1.5 Trillion

Deficits spending and stimulus are for when the economy is in recession, not now when jobs and the stock market are strong. These tax cuts are directly damaging our economy by increasing inflation and raising bond yields.

Treasury has to sell more bonds to pay for the tax cuts at a time when the Fed is also selling off bonds and China's central bank is also selling US treasury bonds. They are lowering the value of US treasury bonds and raising yields.

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Response to IronLionZion (Reply #16)

Wed Feb 14, 2018, 04:54 PM

17. not that it could pass, but what will be needed is a tax shift.

a tax hike for the rich at the same time as a tax cut for the middle class and spending stimulus for the poor.

well, actually, it might be able to pass in january 2021....

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Response to unblock (Original post)

Wed Feb 14, 2018, 04:58 PM

18. Agree!

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Response to unblock (Original post)

Wed Feb 14, 2018, 05:35 PM

19. Partisan liars

Being led by a pathological liar.

This is not ending well already.

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Response to unblock (Original post)

Wed Feb 14, 2018, 05:39 PM

20. Reading down through the comments

I didn't notice anyone mentioned WHERE the inflation would occur. Try Wall Street. That's where all the money goes when taxes get cut for the wealthy. When working folks get tax cuts, the Fed kills the boom with interest rate hikes. We're going to see those rate hikes now for sure.

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Response to House of Roberts (Reply #20)

Wed Feb 14, 2018, 05:49 PM

21. indeed. rich people and rich companies already have more money than they know what to do with

giving them more just means asset inflation.

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