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Tue Jan 23, 2018, 03:11 PM

Why Do Some Folks Feel Entitled to Stuff? Read This:

I have a next door neighbor. She owns the home to the west of mine. We share a 24' X 75' driveway. For several years, I have used my snowblower to remove snow from that shared driveway, along with the city sidewalk in front of her house, my house, and the house to the east of mine. I do so because my neighbors do not own a snowblower and I do own one. When heavy snow falls, like the 12"+ we received yesterday overnight, it is far easier to remove with a gasoline-powered snowblower than by manual shoveling.

So, I've routinely cleared my neighbor's side of our shared driveway, along with the city sidewalk in front of her house, after each snowstorm. I do it at the same time I'm clearing my own. It's not a huge amount of extra work, really, but would be if shoveled manually. So, I just do it.

Today, I did that again. When my shared-driveway neighbor returned home, she knocked on my door and complained that I hadn't removed the snow right down to the asphalt in the driveway on her side, as I had on mine. Well, the reason for that is that she and her son had been out in the middle of the snowstorm tramping around her car, which she had driven onto the driveway only after backing and driving forward multiple times. The ruts, along with all the footprints, had frozen and become too compacted for the snowblower to handle. I explained this to her. "Well, I don't see why you didn't shovel it, then, so it was done right" she said.

Apparently, she believes that she is somehow entitled to have me clear her driveway perfectly and to her standards after each snowstorm. When she said that, I just looked at her with my mouth agape. She's in her mid-to-late 30s and has a teenaged son. I'm 72 years old. I just turned and went back into my house without saying anything more. I was amazed. She has never once thanked me for clearing her driveway in the past. I don't care. I do it because she doesn't own a snowblower and it's easier for me to do it than it would be for her and her teenaged son to do it.

But now, I realize that she believes she is entitled to it. I'm not even sure how to react to this. Probably, the next time it snows, I'll just go ahead and clear her side of the driveway again. It's the neighborly thing to do. But, it still puzzles me. She thinks she is entitled to have me do it, and to have me do it to some standard she has in mind. Where did such an idea come from? Now I understand why she hasn't thanked me for doing it over the past 6 or 7 years. She thinks she is entitled to it being done by her neighbor. Such a belief is difficult for me to even understand. I'm at a complete loss at her attitude.

It's a strange, strange world out there, folks.

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Reply Why Do Some Folks Feel Entitled to Stuff? Read This: (Original post)
MineralMan Jan 2018 OP
Fresh_Start Jan 2018 #1
tblue37 Jan 2018 #3
MineralMan Jan 2018 #5
kstewart33 Jan 2018 #14
Hortensis Jan 2018 #43
MissB Jan 2018 #53
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gratuitous Jan 2018 #4
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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 03:18 PM

1. You are such a good man

The fact that you haven't received thanks in years....and you have received criticism, suggests to me that you are not being treated fairly by this neighbor. Does your neighbor do anything positive for you and your relationship? If not, given she has support (teen age son) you should seriously consider not clearing her driveway after the next snow.

If she comes over to complain, you can explain you didn't want to risk doing it wrong...and since she hasn't bothered to thank you for the years you have been doing it, you want her to take over the responsibility for her own snow removal.

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Response to Fresh_Start (Reply #1)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 03:23 PM

3. THIS:


If she comes over to complain, you can explain you didn't want to risk doing it wrong...and since she hasn't bothered to thank you for the years you have been doing it, you want her to take over the responsibility for her own snow removal.

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Response to Fresh_Start (Reply #1)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 03:24 PM

5. I do the snow removal out of my own sense of responsibility.

I don't do it for any reward. It's just my way. A lot of people on my block do the same thing. If they're fortunate enough to have a snowblower, they clear snow for their neighbors, just because. That's how I feel about it. So, that's what I do.

As I said, I'll probably just keep doing it. It just makes me think about what a strange world that woman must live in. I don't really know her, beyond knowing her name, so I have no idea who she is, really. I'm getting an idea now, though, of who she is. I don't understand it, but...

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #5)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 03:39 PM

14. Most people are good and kind people.

We see it all the time. But some are not. And even fewer than those aren't worth the time of day. Your neighbor is one of those.

You're so kind to continue clearing her snow. However, if she complains to you again or is rude to you, I'd stop doing the favor.

There is a limit to kindness. And she would have clearly exceeded the limit, IMHO.

A foot of snow! I wish you could send some our way. Here in Denver, we're in a terrible drought. Could well be that the city bans gardening this summer. It's that bad.



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Response to kstewart33 (Reply #14)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 04:07 PM

43. MM does it for himself also, because that's how people

like him are. Pointedly clearing only half the driveway, well, I wouldn't want to let that woman's poor attitude lower me either.

We once had adjoining driveways with a cranky elderly man, mostly functional but with eternal grievances and anger problems that meant he had no friends and was permanently estranged from his only daughter. We never did anything about his occasional "acting out" against us for the crime of being his neighbors. Except explain the situation to the police a couple times when he tried to turn them on us for some imagined infringement.

Unlike MM, we never did much for him beyond smiling and waving, chatting whenever his mood swung that direction. But we also never put an end to the nonsense with a fence between our yards as he was using part of ours to make the tight turn in and out of his driveway at his age. We did indulge in fantasizing about it now and then though.

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Response to kstewart33 (Reply #14)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 04:21 PM

53. How do they ban gardening?

Do you mean they ban outdoor watering?

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Response to MissB (Reply #53)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 04:59 PM

89. Not quite.

Sorry for the fuzzy writing. The Denver city government doesn't ban watering but it sets the watering restrictions at a level that no garden can grow normally.

At this point, the only way that gardens can grow is if the mountains receive a tremendous amount of snow by May so the reservoirs which feed the city water supply will fill. We're at about 45% of the normal snowpack by this point. It's unlikely that future snow will fill the gap.

It's climate change and we've been seeing the effects for several years now. It's not really winter in Denver anymore.

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Response to kstewart33 (Reply #89)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 05:40 PM

112. Ah.

I wonder how many gardeners are switching to permaculture techniques to cope with the changing climate.

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Response to MissB (Reply #112)

Wed Jan 24, 2018, 03:01 PM

166. "Changing climate?" How dare you repeat that Chinese hoax? The Preznint says it isn't happening

And he's educating all the gov'mint scientists to this alternative fact. And the governor of Florida has outlawed the mention of the phrase. So you better just watch out, or else. While you're at it, could you sign Trump's petition to be allowed to build a seawall (build that wall!) to protect one of his golf courses from rising sea levels?

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #5)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 04:28 PM

60. If she complains again point out that it's time her teenage son start doing some chores for his mom.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #5)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 04:59 PM

88. I understand the need to be who you are

and it would be more difficult to stop doing it..then to keep doing it for right now.
But in the long run, having a better neighbor would be a better result for you.
I'm assuming she's doing this carelessly rather than out of a sense of entitlement.
And a tiny wake up would be good for her.

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Response to Fresh_Start (Reply #88)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 05:02 PM

91. Actually, I think it's out of a sense of entitlement.

Her lawn never gets mowed until her brother drops by and does it, even though she has a mower.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #91)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 06:13 PM

127. I hate "entitled" as it reminds me of the rightwingers who use it so often.

Last edited Tue Jan 23, 2018, 07:03 PM - Edit history (1)

I prefer the word "spoiled."



Edited for clarity

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #91)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 06:24 PM

133. That sounds lazy.

We live in a townhouse. I have felt that to have good neighbors, it's important to be a good neighbor.

Luckily, we haven't had the issue that you have. We have an electric snowblower and let others borrow it when it's needed.

We also shovel together and share Bloody Mary's or pints of homebrew when warranted.

So far this year, no real snowfall.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #5)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 05:17 PM

99. I think you owe it to her to let her know the truth

 

however kindly you do it --

that she's NOT "entitled" to your work,
and that her sense of entitlement is quite offputting,
whatever else is true about it

Maybe it will sink it, maybe not If not, you tried.

But seriously, I do think it's time for all of us everywhere to make a THING of telling the truth -- again, kindly if possible.

ETA: The post just below mine adds to this thought. I was going to say, make sure she knows you and your labor didn't come with her house when she bought it.

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Response to RandomAccess (Reply #99)

Wed Jan 24, 2018, 02:53 PM

162. Do not shovel her side next snowfall.

When she asks why, tell her you were afraid you might not do it to her liking, so she had better get her son to help her do it correctly. My neighbor plows out my mailbox sometimes the driveway when needed. I give him a gift certificate from Menards, and some home baked bread or chilli.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #5)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 06:59 PM

138. The area I came from, if you shoveled your sidewalk

in front of your house and someone slipped and hurt themselves, you were liable, but if you didn’t shovel and they slipped and hurt themselves, you weren’t liable for personal injuries. So no one shoveled their sidewalks.

You might be liable if you cleared their side of the driveway and then they had a bad fall on it.

If so, these folks sound like the types to sue.

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Response to Canoe52 (Reply #138)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 08:53 PM

143. Here, we're required by law to clear sidewalks within 24 hours

of the end of a snowfall. Fines can be levied, and the city Wiil come and do it, with you paying the cost. So sidewalks get shoveled and salted.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #143)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 10:51 PM

150. Interesting, personality Ive solved the problem

by moving in my retirement to an area that very seldom gets snow...yea! Don’t even own a snow shovel anymore!

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #5)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 10:04 PM

148. I wish you wouldn'. Because she should learn a lesson from this and if you just let her go then she

won't learn anything. She has a teenage son for crying out loud. He should be doing YOUR driveway. At the very least he should be doing his own house.

Let him learn too.

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Response to Fresh_Start (Reply #1)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 11:11 PM

154. You could be putting yourself at risk. She may be unstable. See accompanied article.

https://nypost.com/2018/01/05/man-confesses-to-killing-neighbor-clearing-snow-from-his-driveway/



News
Man confesses to killing neighbor clearing snow from his driveway

By Joshua Rhett Miller

January 5, 2018 | 9:37am | Updated

A Michigan man charged with murdering his neighbor confessed to killing the woman after seeing her blowing snow out of his driveway, court records show.

Wendell Earl Popejoy, 63, of Ottawa County, confessed to shooting his neighbor, Sheila Bonge, 59, according to court documents obtained by the Grand Haven Tribune. Popejoy, who had no prior criminal record, told Ottawa County Sheriff’s Office Detective Anne Koster that he “made the decision” to kill the woman after seeing Bonge outside on Dec. 26, blowing snow from the easement driveway in front of his home in the 14000 block of 104th Avenue.

“Wendell stated that he had made the decision when he saw Sheila to kill her,” Koster said during a hearing Sunday, according to a court transcript. “He then grabbed a gun from his home. He went out to the easement where Sheila was blowing the snow. Wendell stated that he went up behind Sheila and shot her in the back of the head and disposed of her body behind his residence.”

Police found Bonge’s body two days later. She had been reported missing by relatives earlier that week after last being seen on Dec. 24 at her home, MLive.com reports. Popejoy was arrested on Dec. 29 and was arraigned Tuesday in Grand Haven District Court on charges of open murder and using a firearm in commission of a felony.

Details of the relationship between Bonge and Popejoy are unclear, but a friend of Bonge’s told WZZM that she had ongoing disputes with several neighbors. One of the woman’s neighbors — not Popejoy — unsuccessfully sought a protection order against Bonge and her fiancé, according to court documents obtained by the station. The order, pertaining to a disagreement regarding Bonge’s use of an easement, was not granted, however. ...

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 03:20 PM

2. I'd probably ask her if she realizes that you've been doing this just to be neighborly all this time

and ask her if she had somehow misunderstood that you'd been hired to do so... ?

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #2)

Wed Jan 24, 2018, 02:44 PM

157. I wondered the same thing. Does she rent and perhaps thinks this is an arrangement?

There has to be a nice was of bringing this up, including being taken aback by her response/complaints and realizing that perhaps she was under a misconception.

Can even keep being neighborly - but instead of demanding/complaining - asking what happened so a 'fix' (by her and her family) can be made to make the blowing ample - and if not indicate what she can do to get all the way down to the asphalt (hint to her - it's called a shovel - or an icebreaker - or some salt once the foot of snow has been removed.)

Typing this I realize (as I grow snarkier and snarkier), it is hard to approach without losing one's neighborly generosity.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 03:23 PM

4. Had it been me

I probably would have said something, hopefully measured and considered, after her "so it was done right" comment. I'm not sure, offhand, what that would have been.

I was reading through the narrative, and I figured that maybe the woman thought her driveway and walk got cleared by the snow fairies or something. But the fact that she went over to your house to complain shows that she knows full well how her driveway and walkway get cleared.

I'll have to think further on my hypothetical measured and considered response. Maybe just going back in without a word was the way to go.

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Response to gratuitous (Reply #4)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 03:26 PM

7. I doubt that anything I said would make any difference.

So, I won't say anything, most likely. It doesn't really matter. I do what I do for myself, not for her, really. It makes me feel good to do something that benefits others, and that's reward enough, really.

I really had no response available to make, so I made none. I just find it really odd.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #7)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 04:33 PM

64. After thinking about it for an hour or so

I guess I might have deadpanned, "Wow." Then turned back in and closed the door behind me.

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Response to gratuitous (Reply #64)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 05:17 PM

100. That would be me. I'd be completely unable to hide being gobsmacked.

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Response to gratuitous (Reply #64)

Wed Jan 24, 2018, 11:27 AM

156. i might have said "you're welcome" before shutting the door in her face,

if i could pick my jaw up off the floor in time. or, i coulda been ugly about it. fortunately i don't own a snow blower so we'll never know.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 03:26 PM

6. Could you perhaps offer to teach her teenager how to use a snowblower?

And allow him to clear the footpaths to the front porch or out off the back porch/deck under your supervision? (He might even clear off the his side of the driveway and city sidewalks in front of his house...)
I know you're a vigorous 72 year old with old man strength (like my grandfather - he worked on his own car, did his own roof repair and could chop firewood up into his mid 90's with no apparent issues), but clearing snow is still tough work, and too many older people have had heart attacks just shoveling two or three inches, let alone a foot of snow with possible drifts. It would be a win/win for them both.
It will give the kid an excuse to do something in the snow outside for an hour or two.
Her win is that it would probably get him out from underfoot in the house.
His win is that he can get out from under her expectations for at least a short duration, and maybe be able to ask for something special after all that hard work...or, he can go around and start a "snow blowing business" in the neighborhood.

Your win is that it would shut down her expectations. And you might be able to rent out your snowblower if he decides it's a good way for extra fun money.

Who knows, you might be able to teach the kid something outside of his immediate comfort zone. He might decide spend the summer borrowing your lawn mower for some more extra money...

Haele

(I'm an old woman who always considers the angles...)

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Response to haele (Reply #6)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 03:32 PM

10. Not my snowblower. No way.

I loaned a snowblower to a neighbor once. When he returned it, it was broken. It cost over $100 to fix it. The neighbor didn't feel as though he should pay for the repair. So, I do not loan major power tools to anyone now.

Besides, snowblowers aren't that easy to use safely, and can cause some pretty serious injuries if used unsafely. I'm not really willing to take that risk, either. The boy is a typical sullen 15-year-old. I have never seen him lift a finger to do anything that might be like work, although he will shoot baskets for hours at a time.

He is not my son. If he were, he'd have taken over the snow removal chores by now, and he'd be the one clearing the neighbor's driveway, to boot. That's how I was raised. But the neighbor kid isn't my son, and it's not really my place to raise him. So, I won't.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #10)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 03:43 PM

19. Ahh - never had that problem. All my neighbors have always done handywork on the side.

And a couple different family's worth of kids would come over to learn to use tools they might not have in their garage for projects - In the first house I owned - a "fixer", I used to have a mobile drill press, a band saw, and a table saw along with a nice set of power and hand tools to go along with that; a couple neighbors had wandered over to my house and ask me to wheel them out in my driveway when they wanted to use them for their remodeling. A few tools might have gotten broken over the years, but mostly by me. Of course, at that time I was working shipyards, and most of my neighbors did also.

Sorry about the snow blower situation.

Haele

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #10)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 05:12 PM

96. Theres more examples of it right there. Returned broken, didnt care to fix it!

 

I was always taught to return a borrowed car with more gas than when you took it. A tool, cleaner than when you took it. And if you broke it, you paid for it.
Jeeze....

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 03:29 PM

8. Next time it snows, don't clear her side, and when she comes over to complain,

tell her you didn't do it because the last time, she said you didn't do it right. So you decided maybe she would be happier if she were to find someone else who was better at it than you. I know you probably won't do that, but that attitude of entitlement and lack of gratitude is pretty rankling.

And don't get me started on my next door neighbors, who, with figurative guns blazing and fury in their eyes, pounded on my back door one summer afternoon and demanded that I cut down five mature trees along my side of the property line because there were a few branches rubbing against the power line to their house. I said I would not do that but that they were free to remove the branches on their side of the property line that were rubbing or too close to the wires. Then they demanded I pay for that work. I said no, the law is that if you remove branches from my trees that overhang your property, you are responsible for the cost. They then argued that I had a "moral" obligation to pay for the work. I demurred again, and they stomped off in a fury. A few months later I came home to find that they had "trimmed" those trees well beyond the property line and dumped about 200 lbs. of branches onto my garden.

Since then they have been poisoning my shrubs and trees all along the property line with Round-Up. Lawyers are now involved.

I don't understand some people, either.

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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #8)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 04:25 PM

56. Do you live in Rand Paul's neighborhood?

Just kidding.
I am so incredibly fortunate to have lived in my house 20 years with great neighbors on both sides.

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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #8)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 04:46 PM

78. I would also feel like not clearing the snow in the future.

Easy to say that being at a safe distance.

But as a halfway measure, maybe knock on the door and ask the lady if she would like her driveway cleared, which will point out to her that it is indeed optional and is his free choice. If she says she would, then she will also be kind of obligated to express some thanks for it next time she sees him. At the very least, it will make her aware that he isn't just some servant of hers, an unpaid one at that!

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 03:30 PM

9. I realize you are being neighborly

But due to her lack of grace i suggest lettung her shovel her own snow next time.

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Response to bluecollar2 (Reply #9)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 03:34 PM

13. Well, I'll probably continue to do what I have been doing.

I don't really do it for her. I do it because that's how I was raised and because I think it's a good thing to do.

I'm not angry at my neighbor. I just don't understand where her sense of entitlement came from.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #13)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 03:48 PM

28. Her sense of entitlement may be because she is being enabled or has been by others with good hearts.

You may want to reconsider shoveling her driveway with a different perspective. It's your nature to help out but when your nature to help enables someone to feel entitled and treat others without regard are you really helping her or even yourself?

She told you, "you didn't do it right". Why would you do it again if she said that?
Don't help her feel entitled is all I'm trying to say.
You have to teach people how to behave towards you - she does and you do.

If she asks for your help then you will be more clear going forward. She will have asked for the favor and should recognize it as such (and hopefully be grateful) as opposed to only reaping the benefits of your kindness which you have already shown her....by you just being you.

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Response to chowder66 (Reply #28)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 04:01 PM

35. I hear what you're saying. However, it's not my job to teach

adults how they should live. It is, however, my job to live as I believe is right. If that serves to teach by example, then that's fine. If not, never mind. I'll still keep doing what I think is right.

If I am privileged enough to be able to afford a powered snowblower and my neighbor is not, then what is right is for me to use that privilege to help my neighbor. The principle doesn't change, really, even if the neighbor doesn't understand it.

I'm not a teacher. I'm just a neighbor who can afford a snowblower.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #35)


Response to Name removed (Reply #63)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 04:36 PM

66. I posted it because it pleased me to do so.

After you're around here for a while, you'll probably see me post a lot of things you don't understand. Thanks for taking the time to reply.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #66)


Response to Name removed (Reply #70)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 04:41 PM

73. If you want an argument, you'll have to try someone else.

I won't play.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #73)


Response to MineralMan (Reply #35)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 08:48 PM

142. You're right. It isn't your job to teach.

But people typically set boundaries to let others know when something is inappropriate or appreciated (in essence teaching).

And please do keep doing what you think it right. It is very kind of you.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #13)

Wed Jan 24, 2018, 02:53 PM

161. Does she rent or own?

If she rents perhaps she thinks her land lord has an arrangement with you (paid) and thus the 'entitlement'?

If that is the case - perhaps a conversation could be had under the guise of not having a problem - or getting lectured in the future. Between snows broach the subject in order to avoid confrontations in the future (using that explicitly as the reason for the conversation.)

Explain why you blow her driveway and walk - as a neighborly gesture and that it makes you feel good to be helpful. Then point out that this is different than shoveling (which takes much more exertion) and that at this point in your life (age) you wouldn't likely be so generous if it required hours of shoveling. Hence why you didn't put the extra exertion into the frozen down patches. - But you can offer her advice on how to minimize getting those patches (don't tamp the snow down before clearning - or do so minimally), or what she can do to minimize the patches after you clear the snow with the snow blower.

Gives her a chance to either realize her mistake (if she thought someone was paying you), and be neighborly/appreciative - and take an active role in solving the "problem" (her family's creation) of the packed down snow that froze to the surface that a blower isn't able to get.

It's the only 'nice' way of addressing it, being able to maintain the neighborly giving of service and avoid any future entitled outbursts that really do diminish the feeling good of having been helpful.

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Response to salin (Reply #161)

Wed Jan 24, 2018, 02:56 PM

163. She (and her lender) own the house.

I don't really have to do anything, since I will, no doubt, keep clearing her side of the shared driveway. I just found it odd.

She knows I won't hand-shovel her driveway already. when less than 2" of snow falls, I hand clear my own half, since it's not that much work, really. But, I won't do that for her side. It's easy to drive over 2" of snow. A lot of people simply don't bother to clear light snowfalls. I do, because it eliminates ice formation, which ends up getting worse and worse over a winter. It's a matter of style, really.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #163)

Wed Jan 24, 2018, 03:19 PM

169. Your a good guy and a good neighbor

Sorry she is unable to feel appreciative - as it means she is also missing out on that feeling of being appreciated/looked out for that someone would go to the trouble to make sure she can get out safely.

If she gets all entitled again and lectury - just express that. You are just trying to make sure that she can get out safely, and that she doesn't have trouble clearing the walks. (Let her hear that - as maybe she can feel appreciated and thus can feel appreciation for your doing the snow blowing). You can also let her know that your willing to ask around for someone she can hire for the frozen patches if the situation arises again.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 03:33 PM

11. I also shovel my neighbors sidewalk as I'm shoveling mine

even though she's probably twenty years younger than me and has two teenage sons. Besides being neighborly I can use the exercise. Her husband has thanked me but she never has. Yes some people are strange.

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Response to blueinredohio (Reply #11)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 03:45 PM

22. Where I live, only about a third of the homeowners own

snowblowers. That third clears all of the city sidewalks on the block after each snowstorm. It's really no work at all to do it with the machine. You just walk along behind it and guide it. Shoveling manually is hard work, so those of us who have snowblowers just automatically clear the sidewalks. Really, you just keep going until you get to a place where someone else has already done it. Driveways are another matter. I used to clear another neighbor's driveway, because she was in her 80s and had a bad hip. But, she moved into an assisted living facility and sold her house to a nice young couple. That young man always has his driveway hand-shoveled before I get out the door, so there's no need.

Really, even with a 12" snowfall, clearing my double shared driveway takes only about 30-45 minutes, and the machine does all the work. It's self-propelled, so I just walk along behind it and adjust it to blow the snow where I want it to go. It's not really the work that's the issue for me. It's that sense of entitlement that puzzles me. That, I don't get.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #22)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 08:53 PM

144. You're right. Shoveling is hard work and quite risky for the elderly.

We have an 84 year old neighbor who lives next door. Whenever it snows, my husband is quick to shovel the sidewalk and Jim's sidewalk because we know that if Jim gets outside first, he'll do his own and ours.

It's not a good thing to do because he has heart problems. But he's stubborn, sometimes grumpy, and a wonderful guy.

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Response to kstewart33 (Reply #144)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 08:57 PM

145. Good for your husband!

He's doing the right thing.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 03:33 PM

12. If I were you I would not do her driveway again until she enthusiastically consents.

She seems to want to do it her way, let her and her kid do it. Just do your side.

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Response to rzemanfl (Reply #12)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 03:42 PM

18. Ok, the "enthusiastic consent" comment made me chuckle

Thank you for that 😉

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Response to rzemanfl (Reply #12)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 04:26 PM

59. You got a chuckle out of me too!

Ya devil!

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 03:40 PM

15. That is strange!

I would be happy to have you clearing my driveway, and it would even be super easy since I live outside of Orlando!

On the other hand, you would have to mow my lawn twice a week in the summer, since the grass grows so fast...

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Response to ExciteBike66 (Reply #15)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 03:46 PM

24. So, do you prefer your lawn mowed in any particular pattern?

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #24)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 03:49 PM

30. Whatever pattern leaves all the clippings on my neighbor's lawn

Screw him for not mowing my lawn!

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Response to ExciteBike66 (Reply #30)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 04:13 PM

47. LOL!

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 03:41 PM

16. Wow!

Walking away without saying another word was the best thing to do. Continue to do what feels right and true in your heart. The world is a better place because of people like you. Peace, Mineralman.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 03:41 PM

17. You didn't mention how much she is paying you for that service.

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Response to lagomorph777 (Reply #17)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 03:54 PM

33. Paying? What's that?

The going rate around here for a 12' X 75' driveway is $50 for someone to use his truck-mounted plow blade to clear it. Neighbors don't get paid, though. They just do it to be neighborly.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #33)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 03:59 PM

34. Care to hazard a guess at her political affiliation?

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Response to lagomorph777 (Reply #34)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 04:02 PM

37. I don't believe she votes.

I knocked on her door while canvassing my precinct and she said as much.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #37)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 04:03 PM

38. So "Selfish Lazy Party"

yup, sounds about right.

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Response to lagomorph777 (Reply #38)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 04:04 PM

40. Yup. So it seems.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #37)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 04:38 PM

68. That's probably for the best, given her attitude.

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Response to lagomorph777 (Reply #34)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 04:09 PM

45. I'd bet she's apolitical.

I doubt she thinks about stuff like that at all, really.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 03:43 PM

20. If there is not a man present in your neighbor's home you may want to offer to teach her son to use your snowblower.

"It's a skill he might need one day and I could use a little help now and then."

A dialogue may or may not start but at least you have pointed out that her son is at an age where he should contribute and you are at an age where you have much to teach and hey, you're a senior citizen and have some damn respect for your elders lady- but said in all politeness of course.

Whatever you decide, good luck MM.

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Response to nocalflea (Reply #20)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 03:48 PM

27. Not a chance. As I explained in another reply,

snowblowers are expensive machines and can be dangerous if operated incorrectly. I do not loan power tools to anyone. I've had loaned tools returned broken in the past, with the borrower not offering to pay for repairs. I also don't want to risk someone being injured with something I've loaned them. It's just not worth it.

The kid is not my son. If he were, he'd be the one clearing the neighbor's driveway, instead of me.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 03:44 PM

21. One good for you for doing the right thing as you see it.

Second, good for you for not making this into a teaching moment or taking on the role of an educator.

I agree with your idea to keep doing it, and not being petty. As you said you do this for your own reasons, and should continue to do so. You seem the kind of guy that would feel bad if someone were hurt because of something you felt was in your power to make better.
Good neighbors are rare.

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Response to SQUEE (Reply #21)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 04:05 PM

42. Knowing me, as I do, I imagine that's what I'll do.

I'd feel bad about myself if I didn't, so...

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 03:46 PM

23. You are too nice. She is a relatively young woman with a young teenage son who can easily

clear the snow off their own property. She sounds very entitled and ungrateful. I would just tell her "Fine, if you don't like the way I do it, do it yourself!" I can't understand the nerve of some people.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 03:47 PM

25. really, next time, just this once, dont do it.

if it were me, i would not only not do it, i would aim the chute at her side. but that's me.
but srsly, teach this entitled idiot a lesson. she obviously needs one. badly.

consider that your civic duty.

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Response to mopinko (Reply #25)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 03:49 PM

31. That's not my style.

I doubt the lesson would be learned, anyhow.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 03:48 PM

26. That's some neighbor you got there

 

Jeez

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Response to workinclasszero (Reply #26)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 04:14 PM

49. Sadly, we don't get to choose our neighbors.

More's the pity, really.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 03:49 PM

29. I'd love it if you were my neighbor..

I'd bake you cookies and pies and shower you with affection. That's how our Denver neighbors treated us when my husband snowblowed the sidewalks. I just turned 70 and don't understand anything anymore.

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Response to mountain grammy (Reply #29)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 03:52 PM

32. Yup. The elderly woman who lived on the other side of my

house used to bake cookies for me to thank me for clearing her driveway and walks. I felt well paid, to be sure! Now, I'm getting to be an elderly man. Fortunately, snowblowers are easy to use. I'm sort of surprised that one of the teenagers on the block isn't making spending money clearing driveways. I sure would if I were a teenager. Hell, I'd hire one to do mine, for that matter, even now.

Hard work just doesn't seem to be attractive to today's teens, I guess.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 04:02 PM

36. Is there anyway

you can blow the snow back so it all piles up on her side...

What an ungrateful person...I can only wish I had a neighbor like you..

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Response to HipChick (Reply #36)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 04:03 PM

39. No, I couldn't do that, really.

As tempting as it seems, I'm afraid that would be out of the question.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 04:05 PM

41. Brats! Lots of them

a "new" parenting style has produced a bunch of entitled, spoiled adults - have seen it too often. I am not saying all but there is certainly a type of younger person that believes they are entitled.
On the job they believe they should get paid to stay on their personal phones, their social life is more important than work life, the concept of "service" does not compute, basically it is a self-centered outlook on the world around them.

I would say a non-angry education of your neighbor would be in order. At what point do people like this learn that everyone is not their free hired help. Not saying thank you? That is rude, but criticizing is where the line was crossed.

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Response to KT2000 (Reply #41)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 04:08 PM

44. I agree with you. It does seem to be a trend.

It's not a good trend, either. If it continues, something very important will be lost in our society. That's regrettable, at best, and dangerous, at worst.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 04:09 PM

46. You should have seen this coming.

She has an obligation to do something for your efforts, like pay for the gasoline in your snowblower or offer to mow your lawn in the summer. Something. By not doing this, she came to expect you to do for her without doing something for you in exchange.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)


Response to Name removed (Reply #48)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 04:17 PM

51. I don't see it that way, really.

I'm responsible for my own actions. I don't have to please anyone but myself. While the neighbor's response is puzzling, she's really irrelevant to what I choose to do. I don't clear her driveway because I like her. I clear her driveway because I can and have the tools she does not have. Her response is not required.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #51)


Response to Name removed (Reply #54)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 04:25 PM

57. I posted because it was an interesting puzzle.

I'm an atheist, though, so what's in the Bible isn't really part of how I make decisions.

A lot of people have commented on this thread. Stimulating comment was my goal. We've seen all sorts of opinions, which is a good thing.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 04:14 PM

50. I used to do something similar for a neighbor when I lived in NH

We had no divider between our lawns so I would routinely do their side at the same time I did my own because it wasn't much more work. They complained once because they had lawn furniture out and I wasn't going to move their stuff to do the lawn. It was a big glass table and fire pit, chairs etc etc. So I did my side. The neighbor came over and complained. I just explained that I didn't want to touch their possessions and left it at that. They never once thanked me either after 2 summers of lawn care.

My wife came home and I told her what happened. She went next door and told them that the next time they had a complaint about free yard maintenance they should start with a thank you. They protested that they have done our side too... not once had they EVER cut out grass. She walked out and I never did their lawn again.

They waited for nearly a month before they cut it themselves the next time. I think they were trying to call my bluff. As much as I hated looking at it. My wife was not having it lol.

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Response to tymorial (Reply #50)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 04:21 PM

52. While not everyone in my neighborhood has a snowblower,

they all have lawnmowers. I draw the line at mowing one mower width into my neighbors yard to show good intent. He does the same when he mows. It's sort of standard practice around here. Now, if my neighbor was out of town, I'd mow his front yard for him, and I'm sure he'd do the same for me. Not the back yard, though. There's a nice fence between those yards that he and I built together.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 04:22 PM

55. When we lived in Lincoln, NE I once shoveled--not used the snow blower--the sidewalk

in front of our neighbor's house. They were out of town and the city would actually issue citations
if you didn't shovel the sidewalk in front of your house.

The neighbors never said anything about it when they returned home. We weren't close, but I would have expected
a knock on the door to ask if I knew who had done it.

These same neighbors ended up joining other neighbors in a lawsuit against us when we were planning to build a small
building on our property that my husband was going to use for his office. The city had given us a permit. All legal
and aboveboard. The judge decided against us. We sold the house and moved to Chapel Hill, NC. But first I posted
a "No Trespassing" sign and chained an open area in the fence between our properties that the woman had used
to take a shortcut through our yard almost every day to go visit a neighbor a block and a half away. I got a big chuckle out of
watching her have to walk down her driveway and all the way around to visit her friend.

You are right. It is a strange world out there.

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Response to mnhtnbb (Reply #55)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 04:28 PM

61. Neighborhood relations are always interesting, I think.

My current neighborhood is a working class family neighborhood, with houses built in the 1950s during the post WWII building boom. In 2018, two-thirds of the homes are owned now by Hmong immigrants. They're all good neighbors, if a little hesitant to build relationships. The other third are typical American blue-collar people. Not all of those are good neighbors. Odd, that.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 04:26 PM

58. Dear MM

I appreciate your neighborliness, but if she complains about your plowing after the next storm, kindly tell her that clearing her side of the driveway will be her responsibility in the future. One unfortunate episode is enough.

And I have to say that using a snowblower isn't that easy. We bought one 2 years ago and want to sell it after using it only 3 times. It is super heavy (Toro), really hard to turn and we don't have a garage (so it lives in the backyard shed). It's way to big and heavy for us.

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Response to Tracer (Reply #58)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 04:34 PM

65. I understand.

Self-propelled 2-stage snowblowers really are pretty easy to use, once you get used to them. Too many people make it harder for themselves than it needs to be, really. Turning them, as you say, can be some work, but the pattern you use can make things a lot easier. My wife asked me to show her how to use it. I tried, but she couldn't get the hang of letting it do the work, and tired herself out very quickly.

I get more tired shoveling a short walk in front of my house than clearing an entire driveway with the blower. I hate shoveling snow. I really do.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #65)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 04:46 PM

79. We also have an electric "snow thrower" (also Toro)

Which I love! It's light, throws the snow 30', and easy to use. The heap at the end of the driveway can be tough, but the little Toro goes through it with not too much effort.

(Buying the big one wasn't my idea).

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 04:29 PM

62. I would be tempted to aim the chute at her side of the driveway

And put all the snow back in place!

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 04:36 PM

67. Your a hell of a neighbor BUT

some people you just can NEVER please! She may be trying to tell YOU something and your not listening? SHE wants to clean her own driveway? so let her.

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Response to bluestarone (Reply #67)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 04:40 PM

71. Oh, no, she doesn't want to clean her own driveway.

When we have just a little snowfall, under 2", I hand shovel the driveway, because it's faster. I have a 3' wide snow pusher that works great. However, I do not do the neighbor's half of the driveway when I hand shovel. I'm too damned old to hand shovel a 24' X 75' driveway, even if it's just a little snow.

She has never cleared her half any of those times. She just drives over it until the snow is compacted and turns to ice. I hate that, but not enough to hand shovel her half. I draw the line at manual labor.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #71)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 04:44 PM

75. maybe the problem is you hate it when she doesn't clean it(like i would hate it to) and

she hates it when you do it? just saying.

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Response to bluestarone (Reply #75)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 04:45 PM

76. Could be. Still, I don't drive on her side of the driveway,

so it doesn't really matter to me. Shared driveways are pretty unusual, except in this part of St. Paul, MN. Back in the 1950s, a number of housing developments were built that way. All of the houses on my block are pretty much identical in design. They're built with adjacent houses having a mirror image floor plan, with garages at the back of the lot.

So, where two houses have facing kitchen doors, a lot of them have shared driveways between them, leading to those rear unattached garages. When we bought the house, I knew that a shared driveway had the potential for conflicts, but the guy who lived across the driveway was cool with it, so we went ahead. The other house was a rental for a while, and then was purchased by the current owner.

Shared driveways test neighbors, I've discovered. Apparently it's an issue for a lot of people. Visitors to the neighbors sometimes park on your side. I nip that in the bud right away, and don't allow it at all. That's one of the bones of contention they cause. Here in Minnesota, snow removal is apparently another.

One block away on a parallel street, there's another pair of houses with a shared driveway. My wife and I walk our dogs on that street often. On one of the garages of that pair of houses, the owner has put a sign that reads, "Asshole's Neighbor." Really, it is that neighbor who is the asshole, though, I've learned. There's another shared driveway nearby, too. One neighbor erected a concrete block wall down the middle of that driveway. Of course, it had to be build on his side of the property line, so he has a narrower driveway than his neighbor now. Some dispute, I suppose, was the cause of that spite wall to be built. It's funny, since the neighbor who build the wall now has great difficulty backing his big pickup into his own driveway, because of his spite wall.

Shared driveways. I recommend against them, to tell you the truth. I wouldn't buy another house with one.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #76)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 04:50 PM

82. i do see your point but

i differ with you in that i would respect her wish's and DON'T clean her side i guess. (it is her side) unless she ask's you too?

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Response to bluestarone (Reply #82)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 04:58 PM

86. After this most recent snowfall, 12"+

she wouldn't have been able to get into her driveway at all. She wouldn't have cleared it, either. So, I did. It helps me, too, of course.

My reasons for doing so are my own reasons. I'll continue to do it, unless she asks me not to. She won't, though, I guarantee.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 04:39 PM

69. What a rude and nasty thing for her to do.

You're a better person that I am. It would definitely be the last time I cleared her driveway for her and I'd forget her sidewalk, too.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 04:41 PM

72. The House Next Door to Me Is For Sale

We never get more than a dusting of snow and this neighborhood is all desert landscaping (all rocks, no grass). I would love to have a neighbor like you!

That being said, if that happened to me, I would never remove snow from her property again. She treated you horribly. You've done more than enough for Lady Trump and her lazy brat.

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Response to Leith (Reply #72)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 04:43 PM

74. I'm seeing both arguments in this thread.

I expected that. That's what makes DU interesting.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #74)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 04:58 PM

85. Virtue is its own reward.

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Response to TNNurse (Reply #85)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 04:59 PM

87. So I was taught growing up.

Now, as an old man, I'm still living by the good rules my parents taught me.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #87)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 05:03 PM

93. That was clear in your post and responses.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 04:47 PM

80. You're very kind

We resolved the snow problem by staying in Florida in winter But keep being nice and don't let the vastness get you down

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 04:47 PM

81. I heartily applaud your sense of neighbourhood and helping.

I try to do the same for my neighbours, but they have me at a disadvantage - they are more skilled in certain aspects of constructionrenovation, professionals, in fact, and offer me no end of advice and, in some cases, tools that no homeowner would have - a walljack or jackhammer, for example.

But I digress from simply trying to reinforce my agreement with your values in this area, and rambled.

However, giving in to someone's massive and unconscionably rude sense of entitlement just reinforces their bad attitude and teaches them nothing.

Maybe find a middle ground? Offer to teach her son how to use a shovel, perhaps?

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 04:51 PM

83. this world is full of assholes, some live right next door.



i would've done the same MM. 👍🏼

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 04:52 PM

84. It's good that there are people like you around!

Not the first time I've thought that, either...

Anyway...we have a neighbor who owns a snowblower. She clears most of the street's sidewalks and at least the end of the driveways. She saw me out with my shovel the other week and called out "Mrs __, I'll get that! I'm just making my rounds now." So I thanked her and went inside. Then I fixed up a plate of homemade candies and took it over when she was finished in gratitude for all she and her sister do to watch over the neighborhood.

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Response to Maeve (Reply #84)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 05:01 PM

90. Sounds like a nice neighborhood!

Nice neighbors make for nice neighborhoods, don't they?

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #90)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 05:03 PM

92. When people co-operate, life goes better

Being nice isn't just a "good" thing--it's the way we have civilization.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 05:09 PM

94. I'd stop doing her a favor, if I were you, Mineral Man. Some people are ridiculous & ungrateful...

and don't realize when they have it good. I've seen this repeatedly throughout my life. These are people who make a life out of getting stuff done for them for free.

One of my sisters was like that. She actually thought higher of people who refused to do anything for her, and regarded the favor-doers lowly. And always had a complaint about HOW the free work was done.

If you continue, she may end up suing you if she falls and breaks a hip because of that "improper work" you did. Beware.

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #94)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 06:11 PM

126. That concerned me too. The same kind of person who would behave as MM's neighbor did would

not hesitate to bring a lawsuit or otherwise make him miserable if she, her son, a visitor, etc., got hurt.

How do people get to feel entitled to something they have no right to demand? Some learn it as children because parents reinforce it. Others may learn that there is no need to reciprocate or even be gracious in thanking someone, when neighbors do nice things for them without asking for even a thank you; they get reinforced every time that a favor is done for them.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 05:10 PM

95. Sense of entitlement is whats ruining the country. Replace "snow shoveling" with many other things.

 

Just listen to what some of the "younger generation" (anyone under 40) will tell you that they feel entitled to. I have friends whose grown children, in their 30s, cannot BELIEVE that they are having to pay their own car insurance. Two different couples! And their parents "cut them off" several yrs back, but they STILL bitch about it.
Not to mention the numerous ones who have kids that will just show up to drop off the grandkids, with no warning or polite "May we?".
They run up credit card bills & because mom & dad have saved up for retirement, they figure THEY should help pay the bills.
A lot of these folks consider their retirement plan to be "money I inherit from my parents".
I'm mid-50s and cant believe how so many dont even try to learn about saving. It should be a required class in high school.
Everyone wants to almost literally "keep up with the Kardashians"

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 05:16 PM

97. Chutzpah. Reminds me of the story in "Fiddler on the Roof"

(Beggar)
"Alms for the poor, alms for the poor..."

(Lazar)
"Here, Reb Nahum, is one kopek."

(Beggar)
"One kopek? Last week you geve me two kopeks."

(Lazar)
"I had a bad week."

(Beggar)
"So, if you had a bad week, why should I suffer?"

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 05:16 PM

98. Thank you

For being a wonderful man and neighbor.
You need to do what you feel comfortable doing.
We have a neighbor like you. We have not needed his help often but when we or any other neighbor needs help, he is there. I have baked cookies, invited him for dinner and given him veggies from the garden and salsa and pickles I canned. And cold beers in the summer!
We truly appreciate him and his thoughtfulness.
I try and be a good neighbor when I can. I dont keep score either. It is just something I think we all should do.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 05:17 PM

101. I'd stop snowblowing her property. Then when she gets tagged by the city for not shoveling

She can complain to them for citing her.

But that's just me.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 05:18 PM

102. I think that next time it snows,

you should just do your own property, not an inche of hers. Not out of spite, but just because you apparently are not doing her side right to her satisfaction. Then she can find out on her own how to properly clear her snow, either by doing it herself, teaching her son and letting it be his job, or paying someone else to clear it for her.

If she has never said Thank you or brought you a pie or gift, then perhaps Gratitude is a lesson she needs to learn. Just Ask Nanny McPhee!

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Response to Ilsa (Reply #102)

Wed Jan 24, 2018, 03:29 PM

171. Well said Ilsa, Seems your response is the middle road I would take............

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Response to Old Vet (Reply #171)

Wed Jan 24, 2018, 11:07 PM

172. You're a good neighbor. A long

time ago, I lived alone in a house in a quiet neighborhood. My life got turned upside down by something traumatic, and I was going home every day, but only to pack for the next day and get my mail. In south Texas in the summer, the grass goes nuts. My sweet, elderly neighbor mowed my yard for me. It was a big help. He and his wife knew I didn't have the strength or energy to take care of my front yard yet. I made a point of thanking them. I think I brought them a coffee cake or something.

I don't think your neighbor has learned to be grateful to others for their acts of kindness. She needs to learn, if for no other reason, to learn that others care about her. Otherwise, she will grow cynical and bitter. This life lesson is important, IMO.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 05:21 PM

103. Could it be she thinks you are being paid by the city to do it?

I use to bush hog my neighbors pasture because I had a tractor and she, a single parent, didn't. Then one day I was in a hurry and her pasture looked really dry, so I thought it should go another month before bush hogging.

Next thing I know she's knocking on my back door yelling at me for not doing her pasture. Like you, I was dumbfounded but eventually said I didn't have time and I would catch it next month.

She said, "Well, I hope you don't get full payment for it." I asked who exactly was paying me and she said the county. Then I explained I was merely doing it to be neighborly and no one was paying me. She turned 10 shades of red and apologized. Then she offered to pay me.

Some people just assume you are working and being compensated somehow.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 05:22 PM

104. Depending on how long you have been doing this

If more than a few years, if she paid to have somebody plow her side of the shared driveway, she likely could have purchased her own snowblower with all the money you have saved her.

No idea where you live, but I would imagine a professional landscaper that does winter plowing would charge anywhere from $25 to $50 or more for each winter plowing, and maybe more if you have a particularly big storm where they have to plow twice.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 05:22 PM

105. Probably best to not go with my first reaction.

I do think you should explain this to her. Explain it just as you did to us here. Perhaps she is a trump voter and thus just too dim to understand how crude she is. But she does need to have it explained to her. I sense that you like to avoid confrontation as much as I do. You might couch it in terms of wanting to explain why you turned away when she knocked on you door to display her rude indifference to a courtesy you have extended.

If she doesn't get it even then, you can explain that you are sorry that your free gift to her is unacceptable and promise not to disturb her again with your work. You can offer to repay her for the years of unsatisfactory work you have done for her --- wait a minute.

(Oh. My first reaction is to stop doing her work and and dump your blown snow on her side of the driveway. I'm a little ashamed that my first reaction is so petty, but . . . )

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 05:26 PM

106. It is a strange world. We rented a house for years that was next to another rental

owned by the same landlord. My boyfriend would routinely mow both lawns, which were actually quite large and sloped down to a creek. We had different neighbors over the years and most were generally appreciative, though they weren't always verbal about it (I get that it can become awkward). I think it started because when we first moved there, we didn't have a lawnmower and the neighbor did, so he borrowed it and did both yards; eventually that mower died and we got a new one but he still did all the mowing.

Funnily, when one of the new neighbors moved in, she told us that the landlady had told her not to worry about mowing the lawn, because the neighbor did it! (Almost as if she was implying that it came as part of the deal with the rent).

Well, we're long out of that place thanks to raging rents in Seattle, and have no need to mow anymore, but your story made me think back to those days and how it really wasn't a big thing for him, and the neighbors always had a nicely-mowed yard.

Your neighbor sounds clueless. Just clueless. At some point, she should have thanked you for taking care of it (especially the walk out in front; some cities issues tickets if you don't shovel). I know that it can become harder if you let the thanks go at first, but she could drop off a nice bottle of wine at Christmas or something with a little card. Acknowledgement is a little thing that goes a long way. And, for her to complain about it, I don't know. It sure sounds as if her family did not give her any of the tools she needed to maintain a yard.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 05:31 PM

107. Do the right thing.

Buy her teenage son a snow shovel. That's how it worked when I was a kid. No one owned snow throwers. No one could afford snow plow contacts. All the kids in the neighborhood shoveled. Good exercise, no Xbox wasting our time.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 05:31 PM

108. You sound like my husband

He too is such a nice man, but my job is to make sure no one takes advantage of that kind spirit.
I tell him, if they don't reciprocate, then you don't do again. She's the type that would try to sue you if she slipped. She can hire someone to do what you do. Some people only respect others work when they pay for it.

I wouldn't do a thing for her. Life's too short. People who do not reciprocate back in the days when we were living in our tribes in the savannah's, would have been sent away. They serve no purpose to our family units. She is one.

Save your humanity for good people. They always are thankful.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 05:36 PM

109. Do you have a homeowners association? Perhaps she is mistaken in thinking that you work for

them and they pay you to remove her snow or something.

Bad enough they never thanked you. If someone criticized my free help (and I didn't somehow make their situation worse in the process) I'd have used every word in every language I know, that you're not supposed to use in polite company. That kind of shit is NOT ok.

I always use a shovel myself, but we don't get a lot of snow here. Did your snowblower maybe, in the off chance, somehow make the situation worse for her? By leaving a packed layer, as thick as what was created by their footsteps? That's the only possible justification I can think of for anything like that.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 05:37 PM

110. She sounds like a real piece of work

Shoot, if any neighbor of mine cleared my drive like that, I'd be popping over with a plate of warm brownies or a 6- pack of your favorite beer every now and then .... Definitely a little something for Christmas, a warm scarf or hat .... Sheesh, some people.....

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 05:37 PM

111. You are a good man

and rare in this world.

When I lived in lake effect snow area of the midwest, my neighbor would come over after a big snow and plow out my driveway. There were times I shoveled it before he got to me but when we got a huge snow, he was out there before it stopped snowing. I got him a bottle of Jack Daniels and gave him 20 bucks because I was that grateful. He asked me one day why my lawn person was scalping my yard when she cut the lawn and I told him I had told her to raise the mower deck because i wanted it a little longer but she never did. He said, tell you what, my teen son needs a summer job. How about he cut your lawn for the same price as her and he won't scalp it. I said, please do! It's nice to have neighbors like that around. I left that neighborhood about 11 yrs ago. Good people.

I don't get the entitled attitude of that generation either. What bothers me is that our generation raised those people and they are raising another generation that doesn't have the decency to respect their elders. I don't get it but I was raised by blue collar factory workers that taught us right.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 05:46 PM

113. Snow blow it a little less each time and see how she reacts

Two can play at the passive aggressive game lol

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 05:46 PM

114. What you did says a lot about who you are.

What she did says a lot about who she is. You are the definition of virtue, she is the definition of entitlement. And, you are a better person than I would have been had I been in your situation. I strive to be more like you but often fall short because I allow entitled people derail me from being my best. Maybe someday, I will get better at rising above things like this. Kudos to you.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 05:47 PM

115. You are a good neighbor...it isn't 100%...

the quality of housing, the landscaping, etc., it's the neighbors, I think that make a neighborhood up. I enjoy coming home, and waving to all of the neighbors Hello, and saying Hi, etc. I also mow part of both sides of my property that is part of my two immediate neighbors, I used to shovel the sidewalks out in front of our houses but am getting too old to do, but I still go out there and salt the steps and sidewalks of all 3 houses, when needed. I also pick up the wind-blown trash from our front yards too occasionally. I even paid for some tree pruning of one neighbor's tree when it was overhanging too much over my backyard garage and she was happy about that (it was part of a bigger job involving two other trees on my property).

She felt bad that she would be not able to reciprocate so she asked / told me that I didn't have to do this, and she explained why (Her and her husband, two young ones wouldn't be able to, running around so much).

I totally understood, she was nice enough to explain why, and she and her family are still wonderful.

Good neighbors are a diamond in the rough, and if you have some, you are truly lucky.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 05:47 PM

116. You are such a sweet neighbor

I don't blame you for reacting the way you did I probably would have done the same thing. I have a neighbor who is about your age and when he mows his lawn he is always so sweet to mow the part that we share. One time he accidentally ran over the cover for the emergency water shut off valve. I moved a potted plant over there so someone wouldn't accidentally fall in the hole in the ground and he was so apologetic saying he would go to Home Depot and get me a new one and I said OH NO thank you for always cutting that part and it is not a big deal and I can pick one up myself at the store.

I can't imagine being like your neighbor and going up and knocking on his door and getting mad at him about that. I hope she realizes at some point how she came across and that you are just being neighborly.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 05:48 PM

117. I hear this all the time

about the 20 to 35 age group.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 05:55 PM

118. My hat's off to you

You are a better man than me. Seriously, I like to think I would react the way you did. I have proven time and time again, that I can't be that magnanimous. Maybe in another 20 years!

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 05:56 PM

119. Last winter, I downsized to a house far from my original home.

My son-in-law told me he would maintain the yard and clear the walk/drive of snow. He did start mowing and cleared the first snow from the drive/walks. However, he had to get up early to beat whoever has been cleaning them first. If he isn't here early on, they get done and I have no idea who is doing them. The neighbors haven't seen them and I'm usually at the back of the house and don't see them until I happen to notice they have been done. I'd love to give them a gift certificate or bake some treats for them, but I have no recipient. It is a mystery, but a nice one.

I know what a job clearing snow can be and I commend you for doing so, but don't let yourself become a target of nastiness. She should be ashamed of herself for being rude to you and a bad example for her son.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 06:02 PM

120. Folk's entitlement and lack of shame never ceases to amaze.

A story not quite the same but similar. I once watched a woman use her SUV to cut into a fast food drive through lane ahead of a long line. The person she cut off got out of the car and approached her, not in an angry manner, but just asking her to get in line like everyone else. Her response, which I"ll never forget.

"You need to get over yourself!"



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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 06:03 PM

121. Here's the problem


If you removed snow from her side of the driveway, left ice spots, and someone is injured as a consequence, then you can be held jointly liable for that.

She put you on notice of the remaining ice spots, and if she is of a devious mind then she is aware of the additional factor that notice provides.

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #121)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 06:06 PM

122. Sadly, that thought occurred to me too. eom

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 06:07 PM

123. You are a great guy...and she is a jerk.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 06:07 PM

124. This sounds like a DEAR PRUDENCE issue...

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 06:11 PM

125. I do my driveway and my neighbors driveway with a shovel.

I'm 59 years old. Takes me about 4 hours.

The neighbor on the other side, 2 doors down, has a plow on a riding tractor or something, and he only does his own.

You are a good neighbor. I would say to continue to do hers, however, in this case...

She might have some motives for complaining, none of which would be to your benefit. Hard to tell what to do from here, but based on what I've read, I would tell her you will not be doing it anymore, and tell her why in such a way that will not start a neighbor war. You know...Oh, I'm getting older now and it's really difficult for me just to get through my own, I hope you'll understand that I physically can't do yours anymore...something like that.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 06:13 PM

128. I wonder if she thinks she owns the driveway and you use it at her discretion.

It’s hard to understand the attitude if she realizes you have no obligation to clean anything. Perhaps you should explain to her sometime that you blow her snow as a favor to her. Although it’s hard to believe she hasn’t figured that out, it could be she’s never made the connection.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 06:14 PM

129. I'd go ahead and clear her side, but...

send her a bill for a small, but reasonable fee for snow removal.

I had a close friend who's granddaughter got laid off and she and her boyfriend we frantic over how they would pay the rent, so my friend offered to cover that month's rent for them while she found another job.

After 5 months of paying her rent for her and her boyfriend my friend told them he really couldn't afford to go on paying their rent for them. She was quite indignant, and it was clear that in a few short months she had grown to feel entitled to that rent money from her dear old grampa. She got really pissed off that grampa wasn't paying her what she was entitled to.

I guess its human nature to normalize something once it becomes a regular occurrence, and then we expect things to go right on being "normal".

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 06:17 PM

130. You are very nice!

I would be baking you chocolate chip cookies and buying your oil and gas. I think, at the least, you should be asking her for gas money, if you even continue doing this.

I lend my snowblower to my neighbors when it is really bad, but they are people who probably know more about the machinery than I do.

Our community now has a program for over 60 year-olds. Free snowplowing if within the city limits. Sign up once a year, first come first serve. It's like winning the lottery. I shoveled for years, finally bought a snow blower and it's been mostly drought years (except for last year) ever since. This year we've only had 4 inches of snow, but a big one is coming in tomorrow.

The city plows our roads and then they call the contractor who removes my driveway snow. It's magical.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 06:19 PM

131. I used to shovel the neighbors sidewalk when I was a kid

He had a tractor and did his own driveway, never did ours but they weren't side by side or anything. But I usually only shoveled his sidewalk one shovel wide, did my folks more like 2 shovels wide. He never thanked me or anything, I also thought he was a mean old prick. But after my dad died and his wife died, my mom and him got to be good friends, so I figure maybe I helped that along.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 06:22 PM

132. Well brother that would have been the last time

her side of the driveway was cleared. Trust me on that.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 06:37 PM

134. You are very kind, MineralMan.

I don't understand this lady either.

Only you know the interactions you have had with her in the past. Maybe something happened in her life that set her off that day and you were just an innocent bystander. We never really know what is going on with people.

You have always come off as a good person, MineralMan. So it is probably in your nature to just keep being that good person.

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Response to madaboutharry (Reply #134)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 09:15 PM

146. I don't know her circumstances, either.

As you say, she could be having really bad times somehow. It's just not that big a deal, really. I'm out there doing my side anyhow. I'd rather just do it as something worth doing. It would bother me more not to than not getting thanked.

I just thought it was odd, really.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 06:39 PM

135. Wow. Your neighbor has brass gonads.

And you must be a more noble spirit than I, and I consider myself to be fairly thoughtful.

If someone had the temerity to complain about a service I was providing out of the goodness of my heart, my unspoken response would be, "Well, then, fuck you, do it yourself." I like the response somewhere above of expressing regret that the job had not been done to her exacting standards and stopping any further services so as not to trouble her with poorly done work. It would probably be hard to keep a slight hint of sarcasm from creeping in.

We put up a tall fence a couple of years ago, after our much-beloved former neighbors moved. The people who moved in have a very large German shepherd who leaves very large "calling cards." The owners would regularly let him out without supervision, and he would head right for our yard. No owner clean up. My husband spoke to both adults several times. The man's suggestion was that we marks the deposits with those little flags on wires so he would know where to look (not only no, but HELL NO), and the wife claimed that we couldn't know it was their dog because, "there are all kinds of dogs running loose." Our town has a leash law, and there are NO dogs running loose except theirs.

We miss our former neighbors terribly.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 06:40 PM

136. The thing is...

every time you've done it, she's given her kid 20 bucks and sent him over to give it to you. He just pockets it. She thinks she's been paying you for years, and couldn't understand why you started half-assing it all of a sudden.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 06:53 PM

137. Yes it is a strange world

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 07:10 PM

139. You may be reinforcing her taking advantage of others too.

Obviously she was an indulged brat growing up and she needs a major attitude adjustment. If she comes over and says "you didn't do my side of the driveway" just tell her that she doesn't appreciate it and never thanked you.

Sorry but this is my sentiment..





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Response to Duppers (Reply #139)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 08:09 PM

140. Yuppers Duppers

You know my neighbor history. Any time there's a shared anything (driveway, access road, fence), there's going to be trouble at some point.

My perfect home would be an island no one could get to except by helicopter.


MM--don't try to help people that will just abuse you and take you for granted. Besides, she's probably a rethuglican.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 08:48 PM

141. I am happy to be able to breathe the air that is before me

My neighbors are farther away than a rock throw currently so I don't have that problem anymore. I do know whenever you do so something for just about anybody repeatedly that doesn't reciprocate in kind then they will almost all eventually come to expect it from you. When I lived in track housing about thirty some years ago and all the neighbors were like that. Mostly I guess that is why I live out in the sticks and haven't moved back to that kind of situation

That's is just a normal human trait. Ingratitude is something we only experience when we feel we should have been able to change somebody more our liking. This idea that we can change people more to our likes will never happen, they will always be who they were going to be no matter your or their or anybody else's thoughts on the matter.

I appreciate your posts Mineral Man but if you could only understand we all only human, so please don't expect perfection in or around any part of the world you are living in with us all here. If it would make you feel any better, I would say thanks for snow-blowing your neighbors' driveway

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 09:26 PM

147. Your neighbor is right, and so are you.

By not doing her side of the driveway at the same quality level as your own, you, in effect, said that you and she are not equals. Then you compounded the offense by blaming her for the difference.

It's a misunderstanding.

You might have gotten gratitude from her by apologizing to her for not getting her side as clean but explaining that you spent as much or more time on it. Then your generosity would have been appreciated and not overwhelmed by the perceived slight.

My two cents. I agree it is a strange world.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 10:46 PM

149. The old catchphrase "taken for granted" looms large.

We do the same here, but not one neighbor "expects" it. And if the road gets bad (we're on gravel), another neighbor evens it out. And if a moose is in the driveway, yet another neighbor turns her dogs loose.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 10:55 PM

151. That is a case of no good deed goes unpunished.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 10:59 PM

152. Give them an inch, they will take a mile

My dad used to say this about people like your neighbor. I won't even imagine I can tell you how to handle this.

I will just say when you look in the mirror you should like who you see. Doesn't that make tolerating takers a little easier? I know it does for me. In my own experience, I have known a few people like your neighbor (my son is married to one), but a lot more who are not.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Jan 23, 2018, 11:08 PM

153. Sounds like something's not adding up for her. Would it be possible to ask her how she's doing next

time you have the chance? It could end up improving the situation...is there anything to lose by doing so?

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Wed Jan 24, 2018, 11:22 AM

155. you have eloquently explained why you do it.

Clearly it is not because you have to, it's because you're a good neighbor. I think you should let her read this, or simply explain it to her as you have done so here. She's ignorant; set her straight.

She's also rude. Thank you for being a good neighbor!

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Wed Jan 24, 2018, 02:47 PM

158. My husband would do the same...

And my OCD would drive me crazy if only half my shared drive was shoveled.

However, I think I might have added “You’re welcome” as I walked away.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Wed Jan 24, 2018, 02:49 PM

159. Expectations. They are set in place over time.

 

Lack of knowledge. Do they know you aren't paid?

My father-In-Law is paid by the association to paint the mailboxes in his neighborhood. I would hope the people know what their dues/fees are going to.

You are a good man. Sometimes.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #159)

Wed Jan 24, 2018, 02:51 PM

160. There's no such association in my neighborhood.

No, she knows I'm not being paid by anyone.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Wed Jan 24, 2018, 02:58 PM

164. Next snowfall..

 

don't do it.. sounds like she & her teenage son are more than capable.. ESPECIALLY THE TEENAGE SON

Unless she comes over & apologizes..

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Wed Jan 24, 2018, 02:58 PM

165. How does that old saying go

about no good deed goes unpunished?

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Wed Jan 24, 2018, 03:03 PM

167. I would quit doing it, period

If she slipped and fell because you didn't do it "properly," she is the type who would sue you. She would lose, but you would have the expense of an attorney.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Wed Jan 24, 2018, 03:07 PM

168. You should callher out on it! Nothing wrong with that!

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Wed Jan 24, 2018, 03:23 PM

170. You should at least have offered to refund the money she gave you for shoveling.

With a smile, of course.

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