Question for pilots or someone knowledgeable in general aviation

[Richard D]

This happened over Los Angeles yesterday morning.

All were commercial flights at around 38,000 feet. North South flights mostly, but some east west.

None were from or to any Los Angeles area airports.

They were on the normal flight pattern, and then made a big loop around the area before resuming their coarse.

Any aviation fans have any idea why this would be done?

Stalling for time because of something going on at the destination airport is all I can think of, but destination airports were different.

[earthshine]

1. The entire sky is filled with airplane exhaust!

Even the background clouds are just streaks from airplanes.

This is scary. A few years ago, the sky did not look like this.

[ret5hd]

2. Most of what you're seeing is clouds, not exhaust

[earthshine]

22. The explanation and pic you provide does not resemble the so-called clouds in the OP's pic.

In the OP's pic there are very regular, repeating patterns etched into the clouds behind the looping plane trails.

The sky did not look like this at all years ago.

[ret5hd]

24. Uhhhh...the cirrocumulus in the pic i posted...

look almost exactly like the "background" clouds in the OP.

[earthshine]

26. Frankly, your picture is just a blurry mess.

The OP's pic shows a solid mass of background clouds with straight-line etchings.

None of the sub-pics in your graphic look like this.

[ret5hd]

33. Here, I found you a kindred soul:

[earthshine]

35. Thanks for nothing.

The sky has changed in the past decade.

I am an amateur astronomer, and used to enjoy clear skies from my home in the mountains of NC. There were many good viewing nights.

I haven't had a good astro viewing night in about seven years because the sky is perpetually dirty.

You do not provide any explanation for that with your low-res pictures. (Actually, your pics show what clouds used to look like.)

What I see now is airplanes leaving streaks, where each spreads out and becomes a weird cloud.

I shall not respond to you further. Please do the same.

[snooper2]

4. those are chemtrails, you should really stay inside when the sky looks like that

If you must go outside I would recommend watching this video. The device to stop the affects of chemtrails is not complicated to build, does require a good amount of copper though...

[RobinA]

19. Wait. Copper???

I was told you just have to make a vinegar spray and douse the whole area. I'm doomed!!!!!

[Foolacious]

6. That isn't exhaust

I couldn't tell if you were being funny. In the interests of general knowledge:

1) Those streaks are not exhaust. They are water vapor... essentially clouds formed by condensation of water in the air triggered by the heat of the engines. High-performance piston engines can do the same thing at the right altitudes.

2) The sky looks like this anywhere and anytime there are lots of high-performance aircraft flying at the right altitude. Look at a photo of fighter aircraft dogfighting during the Battle of Britain, 1940.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

17. The water vapor is part of the exhaust.

Burn hydrocarbons and you get water as a by product.

As I try (repeatedly) to tell a chemtrail believing friend. Next time you are at a stoplight behind a car with a V8 engine, watch the water that pours out of the exhaust pipes when it accelerates.

A 747 can hold 375,000 gallons of hydrocarbon based fuel. That's a lot of water.

[VMA131Marine]

28. A Boeing 747 cannot carry 375,000 gallons of Jet A

Max Take-off Weight of a 747-400 is 910,000 lbs. A gallon of Jet A weighs 7 lbs so that's only 130,000 gal if it was all Jet A, which it obviously can't be. Actual fuel capacity is 63,705 gal which is equal to 445,935 lbs. In service, the aircraft would never carry this much though because it would leave only (910,000-412,300-445,935=) 51765 lb for passengers and luggage (that's about 235 on an aircraft with seating capacity for over 400 in a typical 3 class configuration).

[petronius]

36. Water vapor? You mean -- homeopathic chemtrails?

[NCTraveler]

13. I guess I will use this as a point of advantage for one of my causes.

"A few years ago, the sky did not look like this."

The sky has completely changed because of global climate change. Let's get to work. It's unacceptable.

[Nac Mac Feegle]

3. Trying out a new batch of chemicals???

Seriously, It might just be some military or training flights at enough altitude under the right conditions to make chemtrails er contrails.

[cos dem]

5. Looks like a holding pattern. Completely normal.

Planes are separated by altitude, so paths that cross may not actually intersect.

[Richard D]

7. But why . . .

Have a holding pattern far from the destination airport(s) like that. I've never seen nor heard of that before. Usually holding patterns happen close to the destination. I fly a lot, and have never seen anything like it.

(I'm not looking for chemtrail stuff but general aviation knowledge).

[cos dem]

11. Not sure about all of ATC standard procedures

But they can put you in a hold pretty much anywhere. If you look at an IFR chart or approach plate, there are a lot of "standard" holds. With most airliner (finally) having GPS, it's probably much easier to set up holds on demand.

[pangaia]

29. But not generally above 30,000'.

[zipplewrath]

14. Not at big airports.

O'hare has holding patterns over Michigan.

[beaglelover]

32. Not true all the time. The holding pattern for the NYC airports for east bound flights is

over western NJ and eastern PA.

[Takket]

8. Lining up with the runway?

Sometimes flights have to go completely past the airport and turn around so they land in the correct direction.

[Richard D]

9. I don't think so

They were flying at 38K feet with destinations far away. They were on the normal city to city flight path, and then did a huge loop over Los Angeles, and then resumed their normal flight path to the destination city.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

23. What were the destinations/origins?

Do you have flight numbers?

[pangaia]

30. That's not what is going on here. They are some 30,000' feet too high.

[Towlie]

10. How do you know all this about the airline flights?

[Richard D]

12. An app

Called Flightradar 24.

[Towlie]

15. I tried searching for news articles but came up empty. Could you see if those flights were delayed?

It's definitely a sharp observation and intriguing question.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

18. Were they commercial airliner flights? With flight numbers?

I'm not familiar wth that app but I have seen flight aware

My guess would be training or test flights. I've seen videos of airlines taking back a leased plane and putting the aircraft through the paces as part of the due diligence.

I don't think they typically hold them at cruising altitude. But it's possible. A hold typically puts a flight in line to immediate arrival in the terminal control space. Being that high kind of defeats the purpose. Though an instruction to "do a 360 for spacing" is possible.

[Richard D]

20. Definitely commercial heavies

On scheduled routes. The couple I could track were Southwest. They were destined for airports well out of the area.

[Blue_Tires]

16. Congestion?

After all, SoCal is the most heavily packed airspace on the planet...

Maybe ask the folks over at airliners.net? They always have answers for something like this.

[Richard D]

21. Great idea

Waiting for a reply.

[LeftInTX]

25. Weather seems to be a factor with persisting contrails

I've seen it around here from time to time.

Those planes probably fly the same routes day after day. For some reason their contrails are persisting today.

Depending on the temperature and humidity at the altitude the contrails form, they may be visible for only a few seconds or minutes, or may persist for hours and spread to be several miles wide, eventually resembling natural cirrus or altocumulus clouds.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contrail#Contrails_and_climate

[trof]

27. Could be military contrails.

Refueling patterns or surveillance/reconnaissance tracks.
Nothing strange or weird to me.

[brooklynite]

31. To spread the chemtrails properly, you have to make loops.....

[jpak]

34. This