General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region Forums"... Trump will be impeached this spring"
History professor predicts Mueller will reveal Trump crimes that will shock the nation and force GOP to impeachHistorian Allan Lichtman is known for making accurate predictions and hes more certain than ever that President Donald Trump will be impeached this spring.
The American University history professor has correctly predicted the winner of every presidential election since 1984, including Trump, and he has recently updated his book, The Case for Impeachment, that was released in April before the president fired FBI director James Comey and special counsel Robert Mueller was appointed.
Theres as strong a case of obstruction of justice as there was against Bill Clinton on a vastly more important matter than a blue dress, Lichtman told MSNBCs Morning Joe. Remember, virtually every Republican voted for an obstruction article against Bill Clinton.
He said the special counsel investigation almost certainly had more damning evidence of illegal cooperation between the Trump campaign and Russia, which he said would soon be revealed.
Its a conspiracy, Lichtman said. I believe we have the tip of the iceberg of what the special counsel knows about the relationship between Trump and the Trump team and the Russians. Theres a fair chance that the reason they were covering up all of those calls from then to be national security adviser with the Russians was to cover up a possible quid pro quo, the Russians will help us and in turn well ease those sanctions. Why else make those calls and why else lie about them?
The historian said the public had already seen strong evidence of obstruction, but he said theres plenty of reason to predict charges on a host of crimes some of them deadly serious related to a Russian conspiracy.
Xipe Totec
(43,872 posts)LiberalLovinLug
(14,154 posts)PoindexterOglethorpe
(25,750 posts)"Springtime for Hitler" was a song and a play, praising him, right?
MFM008
(19,782 posts)Remember the spirit in which they wrote it..
And the way it looked was not complementary. ..
PoindexterOglethorpe
(25,750 posts)But I'm still greatly bothered by the way people here are using that as if it is an actual insult.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)It is an actual insult, as the song intentionally and immediately horrifies everyone in the audience except the author (within the scope of The Producers, that is), and (again, within the narrative of The Producers) was chosen as the opening number because it was a "totally tasteless little number, ensuring our failure..."
Either watching the movie, or understanding Horatian Satire (or both) would make that obvious to anyone with ears, eyes or the ability to be objective.
Either way though, it seems a most odd thing to be bothered by.
PoindexterOglethorpe
(25,750 posts)I also understand the intent of the song, on the part of the writer of it (the play within the play) and it feels as if, when it's referenced here, that aspect of it is totally lost.
Both meanings are there. The satire and the praise. But because the song is celebrating springtime for Hitler, his rise to power, it feels as if saying springtime for Shitler is likewise celebrating Trump's rise.
Okay, so I am getting it exactly opposite of everyone else.
Drahthaardogs
(6,843 posts)It would fail. To their surprise, stupid people made it a hit.
Sounds like Trump and GOP to me
louis-t
(23,199 posts)Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)FakeNoose
(32,356 posts)AmericanActivist
(1,019 posts)Girard442
(6,059 posts)I hear this from my friends all the time. "When they find proof that Trump did {insert heinous crime} they hafta impeach."
Sadly, no, they don't.
SunSeeker
(51,378 posts)If they haven't impeached him over what he did in the Oval Office with Kysliak (revealing top secret intelligence we got from the Isrealis and bragging that he fired "nutjob" Comey so no more Russia probe pressure) the GOP will never impeach him. The GOP is in bed with him. We must flip Congress in November and the White House in 2020.
lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)Even what's publicly known is very very bad.
The RePutins will ignore it.
Then we will sweep them from power.
The impeachment will be a year later than Lichtman's prediction, but it will happen.
NewJeffCT
(56,827 posts)They can have direct evidence of Trump ordering Don Jr, Eric, Manafort, etc to meet with the Russians in Trump Tower and get as much as they can from Clinton in exchange for sanctions being dropped and the GOP will issue some sternly worded tweets and look concerned on the evening news, but won't do anything. Heck, knowing Trump's M.O., he was likely listening in over speakerphone while the meeting was happening.
And, they can have incontrovertible proof of years of laundering money for the Russian mafia/oligarchs as well.
Straw Man
(6,613 posts)... that the Republicans want him gone as much or more than the Democrats do? He's a loose cannon, and as we saw in that Potemkin-village meeting about DACA, he could be flattered/tricked into giving away the store if his minders aren't careful. His approval ratings are abysmal, and the 2018 midterms are looming. If they can get him out and Pence securely installed well before then, they have a chance at maintaining their hold on power.
This is a dire scenario, but a possible one. Pence in office is potentially more damaging than Donnie.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)and so far, the signs are encouraging.
Will Trump be able to arrange a terrorist attack or war? He's not above it. We'll see.
unblock
(51,974 posts)it's never happened even in times of minimal partisanship.
donnie fully has earned impeachment many times over, but a hyper-partisan republican party impeaching its own president when they have a powerful propaganda network?
sorry, i can't see it happening.
after we win the house, maybe. but i can't see republicans leading the charge on this one.
LakeVermilion
(1,022 posts)in the 2018 elections.
unblock
(51,974 posts)and in any event, it's hard to get someone to vote for you if your party leader is on trial to get kicked out of office.
very bad for the brand.
ideal for republicans would be for donnie to quietly resign for personal reasons. impeachement and trial would not play well for them.
YessirAtsaFact
(2,064 posts)But that means impeachment in the summer, not the spring
unblock
(51,974 posts)really, they only have two options:
(a) stick it out or
(b) quietly convince him to resign.
PoindexterOglethorpe
(25,750 posts)Nothing at all like the Presidential primaries, which still take six months to happen.
New York has its primary in September. Minnesota in August. Ohio in May.
So the primaries this year are all over the calendar.
Pacifist Patriot
(24,647 posts)YessirAtsaFact
(2,064 posts)Corruption related to money laundering and other ties to Russia that make it obvious that Trump is subject to blackmail and a security risk.
Trump being compromised may be enough without direct evidence of collusion.
The degree that tRump is compromised is unprecedented.
unblock
(51,974 posts)if the votes aren't there to remove, republicans would be very loathe to impeach. why have an ugly senate trial airing all this crap only to end up keeping donnie in office?
and if the votes are there to remove, they'll still want to avoid a public senate trial and removal. they're far more likely to go to donnie and say, hey, you're gonna get removed, there's no getting around it, how about resigning quietly, we'll all say something nice about your tax cut and find some donors to pay you off.
more or less what happened with nixon.
actual impeachment and removal remains improbable no matter how embarrassing mueller's evidence may be.
LakeVermilion
(1,022 posts)to prove or disprove money laundering. There's been a lot of speculation, so I want the Trumps to be charged or exonerated. If the Trumps have participated in money laundering, child trafficking or other crimes, now is the time to deal with anything illegal.
peggysue2
(10,811 posts)If Lichtman is correct and the revelations will 'shock the Nation' then we're talking--in addition to obstruction of justice and conspiracy--charges of money laundering, human trafficking, drugs and other assorted mob-related business. I personally want all of this to come out because it's going to take a damn shock treatment to rattle the remaining Trump supporters into reality.
Donald Trump sold his soul long ago for greed and notoriety. Then he tried and--at the moment is continuing--to sell the country off to the highest bidder. He and his acolytes need a full exposure to the light.
Here's hoping Mueller has a big enough torch.
ADX
(1,622 posts)...we can't get this scumbag out of office quickly enough...
Merlot
(9,696 posts)they will ram through their unpopular agenda. That's why we still need big wins in 2018.
Botany
(70,291 posts)and they know that if Trump goes down he will take them w/them.
Examples
Paul Ryan, "Families keep secrets. https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/paul-ryan-keeps-it-family-kevin-mccarthy-russia-trump
The GOP's House investigations into HRC used the stolen data from the DNC and Hillary's computers.
How did McConnell know that he would have a new person to vote for in being a justice on the SCOTUS?
davekriss
(4,608 posts)Merlot
(9,696 posts)will come to light. I'm not saying the collusion didn't happen, but it won't stick to trumpft. It will be the financial ties to russia that will undo the trumpft "presidency."
Financial crimes are easier to prove with the paper trail. Collusion, meetings, phone calls...unless they're taped are not going to be incontrovertible, even though we can all see the quid quo pro clear as day.
BumRushDaShow
(127,312 posts)What Lichtman neglects to say is that the "conspiracy" runs deep into Congress, including its highest leadership, so there will be NO impeachment until they are out of office, and that won't be this spring.
In fact, the latest was that a judge has pretty much delayed one of Mueller's trials until some time this fall.
FreepFryer
(7,077 posts)We are slow to rouse against threats like autocracies, oligarchs and inflitrations - but when we are threatened our self-interest, combined with courage and commitment, is stronger than any other force on Earth.
Russia already knows they will regret this terribly... their knowledge of guilt manifest in having to take out their own senior counterintelligence officers.
Wwcd
(6,288 posts)In the end I want Putin stripped of all ill-gotten fortune & power, and the Russian people given a free & functioning society.
FreepFryer
(7,077 posts)Wwcd
(6,288 posts)Wwcd
(6,288 posts)Can't happen soon enough. He shouldn't have lasted this long.
Take your pals with you DT.
L. Coyote
(51,129 posts)Wwcd
(6,288 posts)Trump is the shiny object, while they empty our gov't of its laws & protections, and our pockets of our wealth.
Who is really calling the shots, because Trump has no clue what our Constitution says or laws of the land even are. Not enough to manipulate an entire shift in its dismantling.
Response to left-of-center2012 (Original post)
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Wwcd
(6,288 posts)Hope that is what you intended.
K?
Response to Wwcd (Reply #25)
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Orrex
(63,086 posts)byronius
(7,369 posts)hlthe2b
(101,730 posts)скатертью дорога
byronius
(7,369 posts)Had to google translate that.
TNNurse
(6,911 posts)"This is what will end things". Promises, promises. Will believe it when it happens. Until then I am frightened, horrified and embarrassed.
Wwcd
(6,288 posts)"..I am frightened, horrified and embarrassed."
Helpless sneaks in with those feelings occassionally also.
The longer this continues, the more power they gain.
Like a freight train.
Our hope for salvation is left to one man.
Robert Mueller.
That's it.
I am represented in the Senate by Bob Corker and Lamar Alexander and in the house by Jimmy Duncan. All are GOP, Duncan and Corker are retiring and all have received communications from me. None of them care what we the people think. I live in the county where Alexander grew up and has a home. His home here now is carefully hidden in a gated community within a very expensive resort. He is a product of the local school system where his father was a leader. I would like to think his parents would be disappointed in him, but probably not.
Actually I am not represented by these men at all. Thought Corker had a spine for a moment, but alas, I was mistaken.
SHRED
(28,136 posts)Irish_Dem
(45,640 posts)We shall see how this unfolds.
DownriverDem
(6,206 posts)It goes to the Senate where they vote up or down to try him. Still, pence is not good either. He's a radical, religious, RWNJ repub who was promised to the evangelical voters if they voted for trump.
Kablooie
(18,572 posts)Republicans will ignore them and protect Trump from any consequences.
There will be no impeachment while Republicans are in the majority.
Period.
bearsfootball516
(6,369 posts)elmac
(4,642 posts)plus Pense is just as much an A-hole as tRump. The GOP should be brought up on RICO charges, they are a criminal organization.
CanonRay
(14,038 posts)much more likely than a Republican impeachment. Who says we're going to have midterms at all? If Trump ordered elections cancelled, would the Rethugs stop him? Think about it.
kimbutgar
(20,882 posts)Unless this takes down the whole rethug party for colluding with the Russians against the country and our democracy.
mn9driver
(4,412 posts)Conviction and removal in the Senate requires 67 votes. Not gonna happen.
And Trump will never resign. At this point, being president is the only thing keeping him out of jail.
Dave Starsky
(5,914 posts)This whole subject is ridiculous. Trump could roast and eat a baby on live television and the Senate would just shrug their shoulders.
dae
(3,396 posts)notKeith
(137 posts)In private conversations, Trump has told advisers that he doesnt think the 2018 election has to be as bad as others are predicting. He has referenced the 2002 midterms, when George W. Bush and Republicans fared better after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, these people said.
The closer this treasonous bastard comes to impeachment or otherwise being exposed as a criminal, the closer the U.S. is to some existential disaster to 'distract us'.
C Moon
(12,188 posts)maybe the GOP stands a chance at saving some seats?
Otherwise, I have a hard time seeing them impeach Trump.
matt819
(10,749 posts)Yes, yes, we know. The buffoon-in-Chief is a Russian agent, a fraud, a conman, a money launderer, a philanderer, a plain old crook, a sexual predator, and so much more. And he should never have been elected. And maybe, just maybe, the special prosecutor will be able to prove all this and indict the buffoon's underlings and be read with indictments for the buffoon himself once he's out of office.
But as long as the Republicans are in the majority, even disgruntled Republicans, impeachment won't happen. And - this is weird to think - I'm not sure this is the best avenue to take.
So, let's just stop expectations of impeachment.
BigmanPigman
(51,432 posts)the Dems are in control. Hopefully we GOTV and win, but knowing how the GOP and Russia are going to try anything and everything to win, the Dems winning can't be assumed!
Mueller has a zillion investigations going and a huge staff, but soon even he will need a bigger boat since this monstrous case of corruption is growing exponentially.
Ain't gonna happen until we take over Congress.
Eliot Rosewater
(31,097 posts)CrispyQ
(36,231 posts)Plus I remember Fitzmas. That was worse than the day I learned that Santa didn't exist.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,280 posts)no matter what evidence of Trump's crimes is uncovered.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)I don't think so.
LeftInTX
(24,560 posts)The only way were going to get rid of Trump is the hard way.
We've got to get control of the House and Senate or vote him out in 2020.
These predictions are all great, but they all point to an easy way out.
Martin Eden
(12,803 posts)I have zero faith in Republicans setting aside partisanship to do the right thing for our country.
Unless the evidence is overwhelming, a vote for impeachment will get them primaried.
FakeNoose
(32,356 posts)I believe that enough voters will be convinced by Mueller's evidence, even if the "party faithful" Senators and Representatives aren't.
That's where it's going to happen, in a groundswell of Americans who can't take another day of Trump's ridiculous douchebaggery. Mueller understands how to play the game, and he knows he has to hit a grand slam or else not bother. If Congress remains as willfully blind as they are right now, then it's up to the voters to let them know. Every state has the power of Recall - to remove an elected Senator or Representative if he/she isn't doing the job.
Legislative Recall takes a little longer to accomplish though, so normally it's not used against Representatives who can be replaced every other year. Senators are in for 6 years, and it's more likely that a Senator could be recalled. This doesn't happen often, but it's a powerful tool for unhappy voters to use when the chips are down. I sure wish the Kentucky voters would use theirs.
IluvPitties
(3,181 posts)Vinca
(50,170 posts)If Trump goes we have Pence. If Pence goes we have Ryan. We could end up with Dancin' Rick Perry. The only justice for a hacked election is another election and there is no provision to provide for it.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)LonePirate
(13,386 posts)Downtown Hound
(12,618 posts)Still too much investigating to be done and the Puke Party still controls Congress. It would be nice if I was wrong though.
area51
(11,868 posts)I also can't see the republinazi party members impeaching Trump. Back in Nixon's time at least some of them had morals; today's bunch don't. I'm guessing the only way he'll leave office is a) heart attack; or b) stroke; or c) the end of his term.
Awsi Dooger
(14,565 posts)Imagine a stagnant flat line. That is the system in place.
Now imagine a line reflecting Donald Trump. That is all over the place, bouncing wildly but mostly hugging the bottom.
Unfortunately the systematic flat line does not adjust accordingly to grab and remove an atrocity like Donald Trump. It just keeps going, as if a perfectly normal president were in office.
That's what we're stuck with. The Adjusters who overreact to day to day revelations take that anger and outrage and try to force it upon a caring and cooperating system. Words like impeachment flow easily. Meanwhile, 2018 Reality laughs at that. A Republican congress will laugh at that. The same people who are denying shithole will deny and ignore everything else.
Only a series of indisputable and incredibly damning videos will jeopardize Donald Trump from completing a full term in office and seeking a second term. And they would have to be far beyond anything seen, heard or contemplated to date. They would have to be so devastating that even FOX News couldn't spin, and Trump's approval number sliced in half. Only at that point would Republicans deem Trump a liability who needed to be forced out.
I don't mind being a handicapper in a theater of Adjusters. My version seldom fails, no matter what I would prefer to happen.
trueblue2007
(17,138 posts)ConnorMarc
(653 posts)The Republicans have no spine...it's not gonna happen.