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Sun Jan 14, 2018, 02:25 AM

The HA false alarm caused by hitting the wrong button excuse is total bullsh*t, and here is why ....


On my computer (actually every computer I have ever owned) if I accidentally hit the delete button for a file, any file... there is a follow up confirmation. Usually a pop up box that says ....

"This will delete the file, ARE YOU SURE?"

That follow up is for any file, even a crummy little text file..

And they don't have any follow up or confirmation for a nuclear attack alert button?

Really?

And even if someone did believe something that stupid and crazy...

We have been under threat of nuke attack for well over 50 years. You would also have to believe that no one, anywhere, at any US facility, in 50+ years has EVER accidentally hit the alert button

And if this excuse is true, then that makes this even worse. Instead of firing whoever made the mistake, they should just be reprimanded. And then everyone involved in approving this systems planning and set-up should be fired.

So if we are to believe this bullshit excuse ....

That puts the problem much higher up the food chain


.

42 replies, 3329 views

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Reply The HA false alarm caused by hitting the wrong button excuse is total bullsh*t, and here is why .... (Original post)
KelleyKramer Jan 2018 OP
applegrove Jan 2018 #1
TheBlackAdder Jan 2018 #34
mahina Jan 2018 #2
Journeyman Jan 2018 #3
Hekate Jan 2018 #4
mahina Jan 2018 #7
Hortensis Jan 2018 #22
Rollo Jan 2018 #5
Rollo Jan 2018 #6
mahina Jan 2018 #8
KelleyKramer Jan 2018 #11
regnaD kciN Jan 2018 #14
flygal Jan 2018 #17
mahina Jan 2018 #32
BzaDem Jan 2018 #9
KelleyKramer Jan 2018 #10
muriel_volestrangler Jan 2018 #12
Igel Jan 2018 #24
BzaDem Jan 2018 #13
Bradshaw3 Jan 2018 #30
NutmegYankee Jan 2018 #15
Squinch Jan 2018 #16
mahina Jan 2018 #33
Rollo Jan 2018 #18
Ferrets are Cool Jan 2018 #29
Rollo Jan 2018 #40
Rollo Jan 2018 #42
mainer Jan 2018 #36
Tipperary Jan 2018 #19
Loki Liesmith Jan 2018 #26
Rollo Jan 2018 #41
localroger Jan 2018 #20
Igel Jan 2018 #25
localroger Jan 2018 #27
Stellar Jan 2018 #21
former9thward Jan 2018 #28
onenote Jan 2018 #23
ThoughtCriminal Jan 2018 #31
Persondem Jan 2018 #35
mainer Jan 2018 #37
mahina Jan 2018 #39
FarCenter Jan 2018 #38

Response to KelleyKramer (Original post)

Sun Jan 14, 2018, 02:59 AM

1. Keep in mind the US nuclear arsenal uses floppy disks. Its archaicness

keeps it from being infiltrated. Maybe the ballistic missile warning system is older too.

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Response to applegrove (Reply #1)

Sun Jan 14, 2018, 11:42 AM

34. They also use proprietary operating systems, and hardware, that only DoD/Military has.

No external connections to the internet. Completely stand-alone to prevent intrusion.

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Response to KelleyKramer (Original post)

Sun Jan 14, 2018, 03:08 AM

2. Not.

We’ve all been affected.

There have not been cell phone alerts for 50 years. That’s the system that failed due to human error.

Our sirens didn’t go off. The military confirmed that there was no threat.

Vern Miyagi says that’s what happened. David Ige say that’s what happened.

http://m.hawaiinewsnow.com/hawaiinewsnow/db_330510/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=DDW6U3Na

Unless you’re here and you know more than our own do I don’t see the point of speculation and dramas.

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Response to mahina (Reply #2)

Sun Jan 14, 2018, 03:45 AM

3. Is it possible the alert was made on purpose, by someone intent on graphically illustrating. . .

the dangers we face in a nuclear world lead by a hair-trigger ignoramus. Not saying, just asking, and inquiring from the depths of a large dark ignorance illuminated entirely by my paranoia and the hope that someone might do something to avert our course.


I was in Minot, in '73, during the Yom Kippur War when Kissinger took us to DefCon 3 because Nixon was drunk.

Very few of my friends and family outside the military knew anything about the ramp up to confrontation.

What I learned was simple, and quite eye opening:

"In the nuclear age, the difference between the Home Front and the Front Line is simply a matter of perception: If you know we're at war, you are too."

Ultimately, all we have left is Viktor Frankl's Challenge:

"For the world is in a bad state, but everything will become still worse unless each of us does his best. So let us be alert -- alert in a two-fold sense:

"Since Auschwitz we know what man is capable of. And since Hiroshima we know what is at stake."

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Response to mahina (Reply #2)

Sun Jan 14, 2018, 03:48 AM

4. Mahina...

I'm so sorry this happened.

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Response to Hekate (Reply #4)

Sun Jan 14, 2018, 04:04 AM

7. Hugs sister.

Sucks ya?

Hoping we all learn from it. I did. Peace.

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Response to mahina (Reply #7)

Sun Jan 14, 2018, 09:45 AM

22. Thanks for the link and pointing out that alarms

did not go off, a detail I missed. Awful for everybody, but this will have caused serious trauma that continues for some unfortunates, and their families.


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Response to mahina (Reply #2)

Sun Jan 14, 2018, 03:55 AM

5. Were there not also scrolling messages across TV screens in Hawaii about the alert?

At least that's what the news on the mainland said...

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Response to Rollo (Reply #5)

Sun Jan 14, 2018, 04:02 AM

6. Yes, the alert went out over TV's...

Not just cell phones...

Residents of Hawaii watching a basketball game were greeted by an ominous message on their screens when an emergency alert notification was sent out claiming a "ballistic missile threat inbound to Hawaii." The alert was a false alarm, according to state leaders and emergency officials.
Source: CNN


http://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2018/01/13/hawaii-basketball-game-false-missile-alert-sot-nr.cnn

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Response to Rollo (Reply #6)

Sun Jan 14, 2018, 04:06 AM

8. I sure didnt see that and neither did friends or Fam.

But I didn’t turn the tv on. Wasn’t anywhere near one.

My neighbor said at 8:45 after everybody knew it was a false alarm an emergency warning was scrolling but it didn’t say what the emergency was.


For whatever that’s worth.

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Response to mahina (Reply #8)

Sun Jan 14, 2018, 05:29 AM

11. Every Siren in the State of Hawaii Went Off


Every Siren in the State of Hawaii Went Off

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100210097786


.

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Response to KelleyKramer (Reply #11)

Sun Jan 14, 2018, 05:52 AM

14. Did you bother reading the entire thread...?

There were several posts from Hawaiian DUers saying that there weren't any sirens in their area. In fact, I've yet to see a single DU member from there reporting that any sirens went off.

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Response to KelleyKramer (Reply #11)

Sun Jan 14, 2018, 07:55 AM

17. no sirens per my family near Kaneohe Marine Base.

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Response to KelleyKramer (Reply #11)

Sun Jan 14, 2018, 11:15 AM

32. Not at all true. Sorry but this is getting silly.

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Response to KelleyKramer (Original post)

Sun Jan 14, 2018, 04:26 AM

9. Vern Miyagi stated that there was a confirmation dialog, and the employee selected 'Yes'.

The employee probably didn't read the confirmation dialog too carefully, and assumed it was asking for confirmation of the test they intended to initiate.

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Response to BzaDem (Reply #9)

Sun Jan 14, 2018, 05:16 AM

10. Really? Do you have a link for that?

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Response to KelleyKramer (Reply #10)

Sun Jan 14, 2018, 05:49 AM

12. Reuters:

Ige said the emergency management agency after the incident ordered a change in its procedures requiring two employees, not just one, to send out such an alert in the future. He said such shift changes occur three times a day every day of the year.

Miyagi, who said Hawaii would have only 12 to 13 minutes of warning in an actual attack, declined to say what action would be taken against the employee. Miyagi said the agency routinely tests its emergency alert system and that employee thought he was conducting a test, not realizing he had transmitted the warning with a two-step process on a computer screen until receiving it on his own cellphone minutes later.

“There is a screen that says, ‘Are you sure you want to do this?'” Miyagi said, adding that the employee “feels terrible about it.”

Miyagi, who took responsibility for the incident, said the mistake “should have been caught.”

https://af.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idAFKBN1F20U8

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Response to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #12)

Sun Jan 14, 2018, 10:19 AM

24. "Accident" and "mistake" are ambiguous.

If I click on a button, it might not be the one I wanted to click on. The accident was between what my brain wanted and where it told my hand to position the mouse and when I told my finger to click.

"Oops, I meant to click on 'scan' my drive not 'shred' my drive." The "are you sure?" option allows my brain the time to back up and undo the muscle-related screw-up.

On the other hand, it's also a mistake if I think I want to click on a given button because I misread it, misunderstand it, or simply think it's the right one to click for any other (incorrect) reason. The understanding is in my brain, and when my brain's given the chance a fraction of a second later to undo the mistake, it hasn't concluded there was a mistake to undo. "'Shred' is good in skiing, must be good here, too, and mean something like a 'really thorough, ace scan'." Uh, not.


It's the same split in meaning when somebody's killed by a shooter--a policeman or a civilian--and it's a "mistake." Maybe the person doing the shooting fired by accident or didn't know the gun was off safety. Or maybe the mistake was thinking the person shot was somebody else or doing something else but the trigger was nonetheless pulled entirely on purpose. We see the ambiguity sometimes, and when it's an issue of solidarity or belief or group, we collapse that ambiguity into giving just the convenient option.

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Response to KelleyKramer (Reply #10)

Sun Jan 14, 2018, 05:50 AM

13. Yes.

http://abc30.com/primal-fear-as-people-across-hawaii-get-false-alarm-of-imminent-missile-attack/2941655/

Vern Miyagi of the Hawaii Emergency Management Agency said, "There is a screen that says are you sure you want to do this? One person, human error -- and that button was pushed anyway."

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Response to KelleyKramer (Reply #10)

Sun Jan 14, 2018, 11:01 AM

30. Do you have a link for your "theory"?

Or or your statement that alarms went off all over? According to CNN the only sirens that went off were those at a few military bases that voluntarily did it.
http://www.staradvertiser.com/2018/01/14/hawaii-news/botched-test-of-alert-system-leads-to-38-minutes-of-terror/?HSA=863c8351326fb2566a657e21f59aad37ea54b6bb

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Response to KelleyKramer (Original post)

Sun Jan 14, 2018, 06:02 AM

15. I've watched countless co-workers blast right through those messages and choose the wrong option.

They didn't read or understand the message.

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Response to KelleyKramer (Original post)

Sun Jan 14, 2018, 07:05 AM

16. HI not HA

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Response to Squinch (Reply #16)

Sun Jan 14, 2018, 11:16 AM

33. Thank you.

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Response to KelleyKramer (Original post)

Sun Jan 14, 2018, 08:28 AM

18. Yes it was a huge mistake, but let's look at the bright side...

Nobody was injured or killed.

No property was damaged.

Life goes on in Hawaii as before.

Or am I missing something?

Consider the flip side... incoming missiles with no warning... I'd prefer a false alarm...

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Response to Rollo (Reply #18)

Sun Jan 14, 2018, 10:56 AM

29. Alll you are saying is TRUE, however,

do NOT gloss over the mental effect of thinking you and your family may only have minutes to live. It must have been horrific.

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Response to Ferrets are Cool (Reply #29)

Mon Jan 15, 2018, 03:22 AM

40. Of course, it must have been a horrible experience for those who received the warning...

Like the worst nightmare come true

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Response to Ferrets are Cool (Reply #29)

Mon Jan 15, 2018, 03:29 AM

42. At the same time, maybe it's a good thing that people get a taste of what it's going....

to be like for another three years if Trump stays in office...

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Response to Rollo (Reply #18)

Sun Jan 14, 2018, 12:10 PM

36. Also on the bright side: they know a problem exists and will fix it

And no one died or was injured while they uncovered the weakness of the system.

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Response to KelleyKramer (Original post)

Sun Jan 14, 2018, 08:34 AM

19. And why did it take so long to say it was a false alarm?

That is what I just cannot understand.

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Response to Tipperary (Reply #19)

Sun Jan 14, 2018, 10:24 AM

26. Half hour on a weekend at a shift change?

I’d say that’s a fast reaction time.

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Response to Tipperary (Reply #19)

Mon Jan 15, 2018, 03:23 AM

41. Apparently they felt they had to get permission from the federal government before issuing a retract

ion

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Response to KelleyKramer (Original post)

Sun Jan 14, 2018, 09:06 AM

20. You are mistaken

Those confirmation dialogs are a feature of DOS and Windows, not computers in general. You may have heard of Linux -- it doesn't have them, and if you are logged in as root you can type rm /* -r and it will happily delete every file on your hard drive without asking if you're sure. This is because Linux is based on UNIX, which was designed for enterprise mainframe systems meant to be operated by trained employees, not home computers being operated by n00bs.

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Response to localroger (Reply #20)

Sun Jan 14, 2018, 10:19 AM

25. The report was that the employee was asked for confirmation.

And gave it.

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Response to Igel (Reply #25)

Sun Jan 14, 2018, 10:37 AM

27. When they exist, it's very common for operators to ack those dialogs without reading

If such a dialog existed it was most likely a feature of the application, but the reason UNIX doesn't have confirmation dialogs is that operators who use a system all day long and every work day tend to get into the habit of punching buttons by muscle memory anyway. I design industrial control systems and have seen this firsthand. Punching OK is just the next motion you make in the sequence, no thought involved. Even when you tell people it's important to read the message they're about to clear they can't make themselves do it because the hand acts before the mind gives the action any consideration.

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Response to KelleyKramer (Original post)

Sun Jan 14, 2018, 09:29 AM

21. So, I don't know how that works on the computer but..

I too think it was B.S. because I believe Trump has a way of causing a diversion when he wants to get the topic off himself (shi*hole).
When it was happening, Trump NEVER left Florida or stopped his golf game. It didn't appear to surprise him at all.

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Response to Stellar (Reply #21)

Sun Jan 14, 2018, 10:44 AM

28. So the governor of HI is lying?

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Response to KelleyKramer (Original post)

Sun Jan 14, 2018, 10:05 AM

23. Now that the facts are known,

maybe you should back away from the claim that the explanation for the false alarm is "total bullshit".

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Response to KelleyKramer (Original post)

Sun Jan 14, 2018, 11:14 AM

31. There are a lot of crappy interfaces out there...

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Response to KelleyKramer (Original post)

Sun Jan 14, 2018, 12:05 PM

35. "Let's play Global Thermonuclear War"

"How about a nice game of chess?"

"No. Let's play Global Thermonuclear War."

"Fine."

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Response to KelleyKramer (Original post)

Sun Jan 14, 2018, 12:15 PM

37. Must-watch video of Hawaiian official taking responsibility

Many people on Twitter are dumbfounded that an official took responsibility for the mistake. The guy actually says "It was MY fault." This is so different from normal US politicians' behavior that Americans are astonished.

I suspect this is the influence of Japanese culture in Hawaii. Taking responsibility for your own mistakes now seems foreign to Americans.

(Oh, and please, no snide comments about the men's aloha shirts. This is normal work wear in banks and businesses in Hawaii.)


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Response to mainer (Reply #37)

Sun Jan 14, 2018, 03:54 PM

39. Thank you.

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Response to KelleyKramer (Original post)

Sun Jan 14, 2018, 12:22 PM

38. Seems to be mild reaction, compared with Orson Welles broadcast of "War of the Worlds" in 1938

 

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