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Wed Dec 20, 2017, 08:47 PM

tRump can't fire Mueller, and it's doubtful anyone at DOJ can either, at least anytime soon

There is a lot of worry out there over this topic, but last night Ari Melber, a lawyer, and his guest, former federal prosecutor Seth Waxman, use the Special Counsel law to show tRump can't fire Mueller, and if he goes down the line at the DOJ to do it, that wouldn't be the end of it. Mueller's team of lawyers, who would have standing, can take the matter to court, in which case Mueller could do his job for months, or maybe even longer until it was resolved. By that time, assuming tRump survived the firestorm his action would cause, would probably be under indictment and/or impeachment, with Mueller's team having enough time to do their work.

Does that mean our idiot POtuS wouldn't do something stupid and try to do it? Of course not, but there is a big difference between a successful firing of Mueller and a process which would drag on for months, in which some of the best lawyers in the country would be taking on mob clown show lawyers in front of federal judges who come from the same places as Mueller's team. I'll place my money on an outcome favoring Mueller. Not to mention the fact that trying to fire Mueller will not stop the FBI counterintelligence investigation that started all this, or state probes.

http://www.msnbc.com/the-beat-with-ari-melber/watch/fmr-federal-prosecutor-mueller-planning-for-firing-1119305795561

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Reply tRump can't fire Mueller, and it's doubtful anyone at DOJ can either, at least anytime soon (Original post)
Bradshaw3 Dec 2017 OP
Irish_Dem Dec 2017 #1
Bradshaw3 Dec 2017 #3
Irish_Dem Dec 2017 #5
Bradshaw3 Dec 2017 #6
Irish_Dem Dec 2017 #7
Bradshaw3 Dec 2017 #8
LastLiberal in PalmSprings Dec 2017 #2
Bradshaw3 Dec 2017 #4
FBaggins Dec 2017 #9

Response to Bradshaw3 (Original post)

Wed Dec 20, 2017, 08:52 PM

1. Trump fires Mueller. Sends police to confiscate files and lock door in middle of the night.

Mueller has back up files, and goes to court to litigate the issue.
Mueller wins in the end?

Edited to add: I believe Trump is now delusional, and is capable of doing just about anything, and he does not comprehend the rule of law or his current political environment.

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Response to Irish_Dem (Reply #1)

Wed Dec 20, 2017, 09:08 PM

3. Watch the video; tRump CANNOT fire Mueller

It is part of the Special Counsel law. They show the law in the video, as well as talk abut it.

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Response to Bradshaw3 (Reply #3)

Wed Dec 20, 2017, 09:14 PM

5. But will Trump watch the video or follow legal advice?

He lives in his own reality and doesn't see a need to follow the law.

I do not think he cares about the finer points of the Special Counsel Law.

I agree Mueller will win in the end should Trump try some monkey business.
But it may be a hassle in the interim.

I am sure Mueller has considered this possibility.
He is not foolish.

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Response to Irish_Dem (Reply #5)

Wed Dec 20, 2017, 09:27 PM

6. Silly to ask if he will watch the video but wish you would

It's like saying he can take over New York state if he wants to because he doesn't follow the law. HE doesn't need to know or care about the finer points of the law. The point these two lawyers make is it's not as easy as what people are freaking out about. They were trying to bring some rationality to the discussion, which I thought would be a good thing.

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Response to Bradshaw3 (Reply #6)

Wed Dec 20, 2017, 09:36 PM

7. I am satisfied with the certainty that Mueller understands that Trump may do something

illegal against him. Something that others say Trump cannot do.

That Trump is guilty, cornered and delusional and may take drastic measures not in accord with the law.

I am sure Mueller has made preparations in the event he is locked out of his office and files confiscated along with a public dramatic "firing."

Mueller did not survive in the jungles of Viet Nam by underestimating his enemy or having his head in the sand.

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Response to Irish_Dem (Reply #7)

Wed Dec 20, 2017, 10:44 PM

8. None of that has anything to do with the law and what Waxman said

Yes, tRump is horrible and Mueller is smart but those are irrelevant to the points they were making about the Special Counsel law and outcomes of a firing that are much more likely than the vision of tRump as a dictator with absolute power who can take drastic measures and violate the law (he wants to do lots of things but hasn't - maybe he has a secret army we don't know about that is going to take over the reins of government upon firing Mueller). Their points are in the video and worthy of listening to at a time of a lot of worry but if people feel better ignoring them and imagining the worst, go ahead.

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Response to Bradshaw3 (Original post)

Wed Dec 20, 2017, 08:59 PM

2. The only problem with taking Mueller's possible firing up with the courts is Trump will petition

the SCOTUS to resolve the matter immediately, which they will do, in his favor. The Repugs are circling the wagons around their Beloved Leader. He has proven himself by being willing to sign the largest and worst tax legislation in decades, all the while lying about who benefits.

Their overlords have been investing millions to elect Repugs to all levels of federal and state government, and now expect to get a huge return on their investment. Get rid of their taxes, increase corporate welfare, eliminate all regulations, and just for the hell of it do some social engineering along the way by creating a huge pool of serfs to exploit until they die homeless, penniless, and suffering from treatable illnesses for which they can't afford to seek medical help.

Or as Huxley called them in Brave New World, "Deltas."

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Response to LastLiberal in PalmSprings (Reply #2)

Wed Dec 20, 2017, 09:12 PM

4. The former federal prosecutor disagrees with your assessment

And federal judges, as with the Muslim ban, don't always act as repub elected officials.

And while your second paragraph is true, the OP was about the law as compared to all the hoopla over Mueller's possible firing.

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Response to Bradshaw3 (Original post)

Wed Dec 20, 2017, 11:11 PM

9. He's wrong

An important error in your summary is that he wasn't referencing the law... but rather DOJ regulations. Trump can change those if he wants to. He's also wrong to assume that Mueller could keep the doors open during an appeal. He would have to convince the courts (which could get to SCOTUS pretty quickly) to let him continue.

It would be monumentally stupid for him to try... but he absolutely has the power to get rid of Mueller.

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