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Rhiannon12866

(207,352 posts)
Thu May 9, 2024, 07:48 PM May 9

'Propaganda is not education': Hillary Clinton on combating misinformation in schools and online - Morning Joe - MSNBC



Hillary Clinton joined Morning Joe to address the spread of misinformation through platforms like TikTok and the role of education in combating propaganda, emphasizing the importance of teaching comprehensive history to counter slanted narratives, especially concerning the Middle East. - Aired on 05/09/2024.
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panfluteman

(2,081 posts)
1. To Hillary Clinton's Excellent Analysis I Would Like to Add One Simple Fact:
Thu May 9, 2024, 08:05 PM
May 9

That young people in general do not have the depth of historical perspective that older people do - especially when it comes to tortuously complex things like the Israel - Palestine situation in the Middle East. It's so easy to blame and villify people like Hillary Clinton and Madeleine Allbright for failures and setbacks that were actually beyond their direct control.

Think. Again.

(9,088 posts)
2. She's absolutely correct...
Thu May 9, 2024, 08:06 PM
May 9

...our educational system has been losing it's integrity for decades due to rightwingers who would MUCH prefer to feed us their propaganda without any challenges.

Next time you see a rightwinger trying to take down a university president or cut off educational funding, think about trump's statement: "I love the poorly educated".

wnylib

(21,847 posts)
3. The current uninformed and disinformed protesters
Thu May 9, 2024, 11:27 PM
May 9

are on the far left rather than the right. It's visible and audible in their signs and chants. Anti imperialism and anti capitalism slogans do not come from the right. Accusations of apartheid are not RW rhetoric. Abolishment of Israel is not a RW position. On the contrary, RWers have fundamentalist religious reasons for supporting Israel's existence. Complaints about Netanyhu's RW government do not come from the right.

I happen to agree with complaints about Netanyahu's extreme RW government, although I think that protesters have made some biased assumptions about his motives in his war strategy.

It saddens me a lot to hear this coming from the left. I am a liberal Dem, to the left of centrist Dems, but not as far left as the DSA. While I greatly admire Hillary and happily supported and voted for her in 2016 because of her qualifications and experience, I have sometimes found myself a little more to the left than her on some issues. I was proud to have her as my Senator in NY and happy that I had an occasion to meet her very briefly during her first Senatorial campaign here.

How many times has Secretary Clinton warned us about things, from RW conspiracy theories to what the country would be like under Trump and his deplorables? She has been right every time. She is correct now, too, in warning that our educational institutions need to provide more in depth knowledge about complex issues.

A lot of the blame for poor education is RW interference with schools and colleges. But some of the faculty supporting the protests are from the left. Like Hillary, I want them to take responsibility for providing accurate information to their students on the complexities of the issues in order to discern and combat disinformation from social media sources. Social media that push Hamas propaganda deliberately target the left, especially students, in order to create discord. Our students need to be prepared with factual info.










wnylib

(21,847 posts)
5. I don't know. Never gave any thought to whether
Fri May 10, 2024, 07:40 AM
May 10

Palestinian PR groups and Hamas terrorists are left or right. But I do know that they target people on the left to recruit for protests because I've seen their websites. You can find the LW target groups on the USCPR website. (Lower left side of the home screen)

I also know that large, liberal church denominations are using the same terminology and slogans that the student protesters use. (Apartheid, false claims that Palestinians never had a chance for their own nation state, calling for the abolition of Israel as a nation) I have been involved locally with a few liberal churches in their community outreach and charity programs. I've attended their services and meetings. I've looked up the statements on Israeli-Palestinian issues on the websites of their national leadership. I dropped my jaw when I heard a Christ killer sermon used as inspiration for protests to stop today's Jews from killing. Never thought I'd hear a Christ killer sermon in the 21st century from the right or left.

Liberal denominations in the US are affiliated with a movement called Sabeel, which means "The Way" in Arabic. It was founded by a Palestinian Anglican priest, Rev. Naim Ateek, who has urged people to compare the Biblical sufferings of Jesus "caused byJews" to the sufferings of Palestinians "caused by Jews." According to Sabeel, any separate state for Palestinians must eventually lead to one nation in the region, with no Israel.

The denominations affiliated with Sabeel have churches and synods or dioceses in Palestine. They are promoting their own interests there.

The largest body of Presbyterians today is the PCUSA, a liberal denomination. They are strongly partnered with Sabeel. Here is a letter to the PCUSA from the ADL in 2022.

https://www.adl.org/resources/letter/adl-letter-presbyterian-church-usa-regarding-statement-directed-american-jews

The PCUSA has also been criticized for meetings with Hezbollah.

The Anglican Church (Episcopal) supports Sabeel and its Anglican founder.

This Wikipedia article describes Sabeel in general as an ecumenical organization, but its section under Criticism indicates complaints of anti Semitism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabeel_Ecumenical_Liberation_Theology_Center





Think. Again.

(9,088 posts)
6. We know for sure...
Fri May 10, 2024, 08:43 AM
May 10

...the Isreali PR groups and netanyahu's IDF, as well as the American pro-Isreal politicians and PR groups, are on the right.

wnylib

(21,847 posts)
7. I hope that you are not including President Biden
Fri May 10, 2024, 09:06 AM
May 10

or my Senator, Schumer, in your mistaken claim that pro Israel politicians are RW.

I am a liberal Dem and I stand solidly with Biden's ironclad position on Israel's right to exist and defend itself.

That does not mean that I don't criticize Israel's policies that I disagree with. I have opposed the West Bank settlements from the beginning. I was criticizing Netanyahu before the 10/7 terrorist attacks. I consider the RW extremists in Israel as much of an obstacle to a Palestinian state as the fanatical Palestinian terrorists are.

But my criticisms of Israel are based on policies, not on antisemitic slogans to wipe out Jews. My criticisms of Palestinian leaders are based on their vows to eliminate Jews, not on Islamophobia.




Think. Again.

(9,088 posts)
8. Israel's right to exist and defend itself...
Fri May 10, 2024, 09:15 AM
May 10

...as well as Palestine's right to exist and defend itself, does not extend to mass murder or the creation and distribution of misinformation to justify those murders.

Biden has never supported that and in fact he has recently stated he will not support any further atrocities by netanyahu.

And MY criticisms if Israeli leaders are based on their recent ACTIONS to eliminate innocent, non-hamas Palestinians, not on antisemitism.

wnylib

(21,847 posts)
9. Of course Biden has never supported mass murder.
Fri May 10, 2024, 11:33 AM
May 10

I never said or implied that he did. But I have heard protesters calling him Genocide Joe, so somebody is accusing him of it. Hillary Clinton has publicly addressed her concern about that extreme rhetoric. She has also debunked the false claim by protesters that Palestine has never had the chance to establish its own nation state.

You oppose misinformation, but that's what some of your statements sound like with the terms that you choose. Biden has said that Israel does not give enough attention to protecting civilians in its targeted attacks against Hamas. I don't remember him saying that Israel has committed atrocities. Maybe he did and I missed it. I think he did say that the 10/7 attacks on Israeli civilians by Hamas were atrocities, or might have used a similar word. I'd have to look it up to be certain.

A common misrepresentation among anti Israel protesters is the claim that Israel's bombs are deliberately targeting civilians in order to commit mass murder. But, if that were true, Israel would not be giving civilians advance warning before the bombings. Israel's military strategy is to destroy all of Hamas' communications centers, command centers, and weapons storage sites in order to destroy Hamas' capability of using them in future atracks. Those centers are located under civilian facilities throughout the entire region of Gaza. That's why Israel gives advance warning to civilians and it's why so many civilians have died despite the warnings. It's why the military strategy of taking out the military fortifications of the fighting force that a nation is at war with is not mass murder. It is war. Wars result in both civilian and military deaths. It's why war is so horrible.

That does not mean that I don't see and care about the Palestinian civilian deaths. I care very much. The primary cause of those deaths is the decision by Hamas to use its own people as war fodder to protect themselves. My anger is at Hamas for using civilians so callousedly, for hoarding food and medical supplies for themselves, and for hijacking aid when it is delivered.

Israeli checkpoints to inspect aid deliveries were not set up to deny aid to Palestinian civilians, as so many protesters claim. They were established to catch Hamas weapons smugglers and aid hijackers. Hamas is fighting a guerrilla war with guerrilla tactics that include infiltration of civilian services to smuggle weapons and hijack supplies.

There have also been incidents of individual IDF soldiers shooting at civilians, even their own escaped hostages one time, not as a war strategy, but as hyper suspicious trigger happy individuals. And in some cases, there were individual acts of apparent deliberate vengeance. I don't know since I was not there and am not privy to the investigations. It is never justified, but it does occur in wars when it is not official strategy. There are instances of it by Allies against civilians in WWII.

It is not Israeli war strategy to eliminate innocent Palestinian civilians. The targets are Hamas communications centers, command centers, and weapons storage sites. The strategy is to destroy the underground network system so that it can never be used again.







Think. Again.

(9,088 posts)
10. I'm aware of what netanyahu claims to be his "war" strategy...
Fri May 10, 2024, 11:45 AM
May 10

...and I am also aware of what the world is seeing unfold on the ground in Gaza and the West Bank.

In my opinion, those two things present a perfect example of the misinformation for political and ideological purposes that Ms. Clinton is trying to warn us about.

wnylib

(21,847 posts)
11. Well, I understand the anguish that people feel over the
Fri May 10, 2024, 11:59 AM
May 10

civilian loss of life and the hardships that survivors face. Only an inhuman robot could see it and not feel for the innocent victims.

Is it possible that your own strong feelings make you unaware of falling into an entrenched ideology based on misinformation? Both sides in this war can accuse the other of ideological misinformation. Facts and truth get lost in the crossfire.



wnylib

(21,847 posts)
13. Who hasn't seen it? You'd have to be in an isolation chamber to miss it.
Fri May 10, 2024, 12:21 PM
May 10

Hardship takes in illness, homelessness, lack of medicine, lack of food and water, grief over people who have died, anxiety and helplessness over people who are dying, and many more disastrous circumstances.

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