So michael cohen just admitted under oath that he stole money from the trump organization

[mucifer]

Big reminder he is slime.

This is NOT good.

[Ocelot II]

1. His moral failings are well-known. The key witnesses in most white-collar crime prosecutions

are other criminals. Prosecutors are very familiar with how to manage criminals who testify against other criminals.

[Johnny2X2X]

2. Yes

I don't know why he was even called as a witness by the prosecution, he's been awful and this is very damaging to the case.

Cohen basically made the defense for Trump's lawyers. I hate to say this and people here will hate to read it, but Trump just got acquitted. There is no way you can convict now, there is reasonable doubt because we don't know what Cohen did.

[Ocelot II]

5. No, he isn't. He's been very effective. The prosecutors know exactly what and who

they are dealing with, and they will handle it all on redirect. Prosecutors are used to dealing with criminals who testify against other criminals; in mob cases those are usually the most important witnesses.

[Johnny2X2X]

9. He has been a total disaster for the prosecution

I would convict Trump of shooting JFK if it were up to me, and even I am not sure that Cohen didn't orchestrate this whole thing now.

[Ocelot II]

10. That does not seem to be the consensus of most legal experts.

Are you an experienced prosecutor? Have you been able to watch the trial yourself? And do you really think the prosecution did not know this and isn't prepared for it?

[onenote]

24. A lot of litigators would argue that the prosecution should have brought this up and dealt with it on direct

rather than leaving it for the defense to raise and the prosecution to have to clean up.

I'm not going to second guess the decision to put Cohen on the stand -- I think it was necessary.

But I don't think this case is the slam dunk that some have been assuming it to be. Juries tend to form opinions about the character of the participants in a case. They want victims to get justice and bad guys to pay the price. But in this case, my concern is that the jury may come away with the opinion that there isn't anyone involved that they care about -- a scummy defendant who slept with a porn star and tried to cover it up. A porn star who some may feel was trying to make money off of sleeping with Trump. And a key witness who comes across as slimy and untruthful

[jimfields33]

52. Even seasoned prosecutors are not watching the trials. Hardly anybody is.

Only a select few sit in the courtroom on a daily basis and in most cases a different group everyday.

[Torchlight]

64. lol

[jimfields33]

67. Oh good.

[Irish_Dem]

26. Cohen has been an outstanding witness.

All the legit legal experts agree.

If you watch MSNBC you will get more accurate reporting.

[Johnny2X2X]

29. Hope you're right

But man, Cohen is a slimball and he's contradicted himself a ton over this. The defense is pointing to all sorts of times when he denied any of this occurred publicly.

[Irish_Dem]

42. Criminals hang out with other criminals.

They don't do business with Sunday school teachers.

Criminals are the ones who flip on other criminals.

It is quite common to have criminals testify credibly against other criminals.

It is NOT true Cohen has "contradicted himself a ton" in this trial.
He has been entirely consistent with his previous statements and the statements
of other witnesses, as well as the documentary evidence.

He made one mistake about the phone call to Trump's body guard.
Other than that, he has done a stellar job.

[MorbidButterflyTat]

51. Examples?

OMG...he denied it occurred because he was on *rump's payroll and he was LYING FOR HIM.

[EndlessWire]

79. I think the average juror there

can discern between pre prison and post prison. And, they might not like the way Trump threw his attorney under the bus after he was done with him. I, myself, am not particularly enamored of Cohen, but I would rather meet him than Trump. Yes, he is angry with Trump, but anybody would be, given what Trump did to him. Cohen may be a scumbag (as you say,) but even scumbags have some truths they can tell.

And, he admitted that he hates Trump. He's sitting very close in court to Trump and still tells it like it is. Most everyone else in the world are nervous being around Trump, but Cohen has not been rattled. As far as I am concerned, he has balls of steel and can be satisfied with what he has done here. Here, he determined that he had the opportunity to tell what he did, how he got caught snared in the cult, and then turned it around. Of the two men, Cohen has the better character.

[usedtobedemgurl]

93. The prosecutors have all the receipts.

They backed ho.everything Cohen was going to say before he took the stand. To say that all testimony is backed up, to show the crime occurred, but because he stole money he other guy will be set free, ignores the mountain of evidence that came before Cohen's testimony.

I can hear deliberations - well, everything is backed by at least one piece of evidence, if not more. Cohen spent time in jail for his part in this crime. And doesn't everyone mortgage their house with the possibility of losing it, just for their boss? But that whole robbing from the trump corporation.....if he stole, even though it has nothing to do with the Mt.Everest sized proof, or even the case, I guess we cannot convict him. Oh look! He also got a parking ticket! That also has nothing to do with the case but now we seriously cannot convict!!!!

That just does not seen plausible. In fact, if I am on a jury, it convinces me Cohen is telling the truth. Now he will probably face charges and you know how vengeful Donnie is. Cohen put himself on the spot legally and from harm by Donnie' s minions when he admitted that. Who does that unless they are telling the truth. It lends credibility to Cohen's testimony. It means you can believe him.

[Scrivener7]

89. You know what? I think the biggest danger here is that any MAGAts on the jury will decline

to convict despite the evidence. But Cohen is exactly the kind of guy who MAGAts can relate to. Once upon a time, he was the ultimate MAGAt.

I really wonder if HE is the factor that will sway any MAGAts on the jury to convict based on the evidence. I think there's a chance he is.

Fingers crossed.

[Irish_Dem]

90. Good point.

Cohen neutralizes the MAGA effect because is the quintessential MAGA criminal/con artist who has flipped on Trump.

[The Bopper]

85. Cohen must be

The smartest person in history to be able to convince Stormy Daniels, before he knew her to let the orange mushroom to have his way and then to have her call the National enquirer to not pay her off because Trump had an affair with Susan McDougal who wasn’t repaided by Trump for covering up another affair and paying off a 3rd person.

[unc70]

6. You keep saying that

We shall see.

[LiberalFighter]

15. No he won't be. At best a hung jury. But not likely either.

The documents, phone calls, text messages, other witnesses confirming the evidence is solid. Evidence confirms that Trump paid the hush money for the purpose of helping his election campaign.

[Johnny2X2X]

19. How much evidence is there that doesn't involve Michael Cohen?

Cohen set up the shell companies. He negotiated the payoff. He made the payoff. He was reimbursed for the payoff.

[LiberalFighter]

23. It was also confirmed by others that had direct connection

[Johnny2X2X]

25. So that's what they're banking on?

Other people corroberate this scheme by a total liar and a cheat capable of anything. I am not holding me breath on a jury not writing off anything associated with Michael Cohen as being bogus.

[LiberalFighter]

54. They confirm details about the documents, dates, and other details..

Witnesses that have testified before Cohen. They all provided key testimony supporting Cohen's testimony as well as what Trump did.

Hope Hicks
Stormy Daniels
Rhona Graff
David Pecker
Keith Davidson
Gary Farro
Jeffrey McConney

[Irish_Dem]

27. Plenty of other witnesses, Cohen is just one of many.

[Johnny2X2X]

30. I hope so

But Cohen is the witness who has been testifying for days now.

[LiberalFighter]

38. It has only been a few days. I think day four and the defense ended cross.

[Johnny2X2X]

39. Phew

Glad for that, now the prosecution needs to spend some time undoing anything damaging Cohen testified to.

[LiberalFighter]

41. I'm sure the prosecution is ready.

A lot of what the defense crossed was immaterial to the case.

[ShazzieB]

81. Yes, I'm sure they're ready.

This prosecutorial team knows exactly what they're doing. I have the utmost confidence in them.

[Irish_Dem]

46. Prosecution always does clean up during re-direct.

Completely standard to give their witness a chance to explain his answers after the defense cross examination.

[Irish_Dem]

43. Other witnesses testified for days too.

Stormy and Pecker.

[jimfields33]

53. Who are the ther witnesses? We've had three people take the stand in the entire trial:

Strangest trial ever. I never heard of defense not having witnesses.

[Irish_Dem]

57. Simply not true. The prosecution called 19 witnesses.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/14/nyregion/trump-trial-prosecution-whats-next.html

Some of them:

Pecker
Stormy
Hope Hicks
Trump's gate keeper assistant in the WH.
Trump's secretary from Trump org.
Several accountant types from Trump org.
Several technical people verifying the documentary evidence.


Defense doesn't always produce witnesses.
It is not uncommon.
They don't have to prove anything or make a case.
It is up to the prosecution to make the case beyond a reasonable doubt.

[jimfields33]

66. Holy cow. It's a shame it is not on tv.

I hope the jury remembers all those people. I remembered three. lol. I’d be an awful juror.

[Irish_Dem]

69. The jury has been very attentive and taking notes.

They are paying attention.

[jimfields33]

71. Thank God there are not 12 of me.

[Irish_Dem]

72. Your mind might be focused if the eyes of the world were upon you.

And the destiny of the United States is in your hands.

[ShazzieB]

82. If you or I were sitting in the coourtroom day after day, we would remember a lot more than we do jow.

It makes a big difference when you're "in the room where it happens" and can see and hear those witnesses firsthand. Also, the jurors have the opportunity to take all the notes they need to jog their memories.

Whereas we're sitting at home, hearing about it all second or third hand. We don't even get to see it on TV. It's no wonder we can't keep track!

[jimfields33]

86. That's true.

[MFM008]

63. Innocent of all

34 charges?
Doubtful.

[Torchlight]

37. What are the specific criticisms with his testimony

in regards to damaging this case, and what is the measurable damage this testimony has caused?

[jimfields33]

70. Preach!

[Scrivener7]

88. Well... except there's that photo. So... The vile thing is fucked.

[emulatorloo]

3. Big reminder: Michael Cohen is not on trial. Focus is on Trump's crimes.

There are many documents in evidence that lead back to Trump as well as other witnesses.

[Johonny]

12. Typically a good defense strategy

Is to put the prosecution witness on trial and ignore the charges. If they can distract the jury, it might work. Meanwhile the defense is unlikely to hit on anything promised in opening arguments. It's also possible, most of the jury has figured out they'd never have hired Cohen for legal work in a million years, so what was he really doing for Trump? To me that's the danger of the defense going on and on. If Cohen feels like too big a slimeball, what possible legal work could he have been doing for Trump?

[LiberalFighter]

17. Blanche is not an experienced defense attorney.

[emulatorloo]

44. Good liveblog here, doesn't sound like Blanche is making much headway:

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/live-blog/trump-trial-live-updates-rcna152980

[Irish_Dem]

48. That's a really good point.

The more the jury hears the defense talk about what a slime ball Cohen is,
the more unlikely Trump hired him for legitimate legal work.

And why would Trump need to hire this kind of guy for legal work once he was in the WH?

Plays right into the prosecution's case.

[WiVoter]

18. I'm Looking Forward To Redirect. (nt)

[emulatorloo]

45. Redirect starting right now...

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/live-blog/trump-trial-live-updates-rcna152980

[underpants]

55. Thanks. Here the exact exchange per NBC

Cohen acknowledges he stole from the Trump Organization



Rebecca Shabad and Jillian Frankel
Trump lawyer Blanche pressed Cohen about the money paid to RedFinch not adding up to the total that the Trump Org. gave him to make the payment.

Blanche said to Cohen that he gave Red Finch $20,000 and he took $30,000. "You stole from the Trump Organization, right?"

"Yes, sir," Cohen testified, adding that he never paid the amount that he owed. He added that he discussed this with both federal and state prosecutors.

Cohen had previously testified that he received some immunity by testifying before the grand jury.

[getagrip_already]

4. The trump org is a vipers den of liars and thieves.

The question for the jury is whether he is lying now.

I believe they will decide he is being truthful. He was a liar, yes, but he is being truthful now.

[LiberalFighter]

21. If they look at the facts that were presented

They should see how it all fits.

[Irish_Dem]

49. Yes. The other witnesses and documentary evidence all tell us Cohen is telling the truth.

[Tom of Temecula]

7. I don't thing anyone should be surprised ...

... that the Trump Org is a snake pit. That's why Cohen was hired in the first place.

[magicarpet]

16. trDUMP.COM,...

.... a snake pit of cobras, vipers, and poisonous venem.

Structured thusly by the Boss Man because that is his standard modus operandi.

[Irish_Dem]

50. Exactly. Trump didn't hire Mother Teresa types.

[Vinca]

8. Now the defense and Trump will be wallowing in victimhood. Fucking Cohen.

[Johonny]

11. Seems like a weird guy to be doing legal work

For you. The defense has proven Cohen is slime. Has not shown he did legal work that the money was paid for. Indeed, they seem to be proving he's absolutely not the kind of man that does legal work for you 😀

[Ocelot II]

13. He was never hired to do legal work. He admitted he was hired as a "fixer"

and not as a lawyer. He didn't handle litigation or other routine legal stuff. He was the guy who arranged sketchy deals and covered up problems. Being slimy was part of his job and nobody is denying that. That, in fact, is part of the prosecution's argument, in case you haven't noticed. Cohen was exactly the kind of slimy guy who was willing to do bad things for Trump, things that their regular lawyers didn't want to be part of. He was just what Trump wanted.

[Johonny]

14. That was my point

You got my point. Congrats

[Ocelot II]

31. And it's part of the proof that calling the reimbursement checks "legal services"

constituted the falsification of business records. That's the crime that covers up the other, bigger crime, election interference. Cohen didn't provide legal services; that wasn't his job. Cohen isn't a witness as much as he is an exhibit; he wasn't hired as a lawyer but as the guy who handles the dodgy operations. Labeling checks to someone who incidentally has a law degree but who doesn't do actual legal work as being for "legal services" in order to cover up what the checks were really for - influencing the election - is the criminal act. Cohen's dishonesty goes to the proof of Trump's dishonesty.

[Whiskeytide]

59. "Cohen isn't a witness as much ...

… as he is an exhibit”.

What an astute and descriptive characterization. I’m stealing that.

[edhopper]

20. Sammy the Bull

took down Gotti.

[Bayard]

22. Trump would never hire an honest person

And an honest person would not be able to work for him for very long.

I'm sure the prosecution knew this was coming, and how to soften it. He still spilled the beans otherwise.

[LiberalFighter]

40. Need to tie that in with the Blanche and his other attorneys. Not honest.

[pandr32]

28. Cohen is exactly the kind of guy TSF hires.

He is the type of slime that TSF surrounds himself with, does business with, and prefers.
Hopefully, the jury will see that his sliminess is exactly why Mr. Trump had him as his personal attorney/enforcer.

[Jrose]

32. Cohen's been tainted by association with the Djt circle of dirty characters

...but the footprints are Djt's

[samnsara]

33. im not so sure.. i think the public has been able to see/ hear cohen..

over the course of these last few years and they have seen trump as well. Everyone knows what trumps past sins are and what hes currently capable of. Theres nothing that can convince me that cohen isnt telling the truth. The stakes are too high for him not to. He may not be 100% accurate in his recall but lordy are any of us?

[Renaissance Man]

34. Credibility is Questionable

Cohen's credibility and character are both questionable, and the prosecution knew this long before the trial even started. You can easily redirect the jury's attention and get them to focus on the fact that Cohen was employed by Trump specifically because Trump knew that Cohen was willing to do potentially illegal things for him, no different than Allen Weisselberg.

By this time, the jury knows that Cohen is a shitty character with shot credibility. What can't be questioned is the payouts and other witnesses that have confirmed what Cohen has said regarding the payment that were made and the accounting that was used to hide the reason for those payments (which is what the trial is based upon). That's what the prosecution should focus on in its closing arguments.

[bigtree]

35. good for him

[unblock]

36. Which part of the prosecution's case does this actually unravel?

This is not politics, where support for a great bill can be unraveled by one of its proponents getting caught in an irrelevant scandal.

Will the jury now think there was no embarrassing secret to hide? Will the jury now think Donnie had no idea the money he paid cohen was a reimbursement for the payoff? Will they now think that micromanaging cheapskate donnie paid $420k for "legal expenses" when no one can say he actually did?

[onecaliberal]

61. Nothing. Exactly nothing. This whole case is paper. They have all receipts. Including the crime budget on paper.

[MorbidButterflyTat]

47. Why is it not good?

Did you think *rump hired boy scouts to do his dirty work?

[mucifer]

56. Well for one thing listening to liberal talk radio

here in Chicago and top of the hour AP radio news which is a few minutes each hour, just gave their only update on the trial is that Michael Cohen is a liar.

[MorbidButterflyTat]

91. And....? So....? Did we not know this years ago? Does it mean rump's innocent?

How did you like the judge clearing the courtroom over the obnoxious defense witness?

I guess that's bad for the prosecution, too?

[Lovie777]

58. shithole stole from his so-called charities...........................

[marble falls]

60. Who among the *rump organization without sin, cast the first stone.

[Torchlight]

62. Defense coming across as rather incompetent this morning.

Prosecution's redirect was professional, to-the-point, and underscored arguments made earlier. I'm having a helluva time interpreting this as 'not good.'

[jimfields33]

68. Interpret.

[obamanut2012]

65. And?

[crazylikafox]

73. So Trump paid his bills with bags of cash

Why is no one talking about that? Or did I hear that wrong? Brown paper bags of cash.

[mucifer]

74. 3 different radio station news including NPR

Are only discussing Michael Cohen being a theif. In their brief news summaries that is it.

Sucks

[Torchlight]

75. I've been listening to NPR this morning and they were reporting pretty exhaustively

on Cohen's statements, counters, and responses, as well as the the trial updates en toto.

[mucifer]

76. Not the brief synopsis of the news during other programs

[Torchlight]

77. I'm still struggling to understand your assertion Cohen's testimony was damaging

to the prosecution in any measurable or objective manner.

[Historic NY]

78. LOL compared to Trumps thefts, its small potatoes

[CrispyQ]

80. Works for me. Slimy Trump is going to work with slimy guys like Cohen & Weisselberg. -nt

[spanone]

83. Never a doubt. That's why trmp hired him.

[ShazzieB]

84. He's not slime; he's reformed slime.

There's a difference. He has admitted his failings and expressed remorse on multiple occasions, and he served time for his crimes (i.e., "paid his debt to society" ). In many ways, he's the very model of a modern reformed criminal (apologies to Gilbert and Sullivan).

If all of that isn't obvious to the jurors by now, never fear; the very skilled prosecutors will be sure to remind them of it in the closing statements.

I believe this trial is going very well for the prosecution, not just because it looks that way to me, but because of all the legal experts who have been saying so.

Please try not to worry too much. Trump is not going to be acquitted. For that to happen, the jurors would all have to agree that he did not do the things he's accused of. A hung jury is always possible, but if that happens, he can be retried. He's not going to get off scotfree.

[MorbidButterflyTat]

92. Agree.

I just don't get the stubborn obtuse doom and gloom on this and other threads.

"Yeah but..." "Yeah but..." "Yeah but..." "Yeah but..." "Yeah but..." "Yeah but..."

"Cohen's a thief! All is lost!"

So exhausting.

[captain queeg]

87. I don't think it's going to hurt him or the case. They all know he worked for a criminal organization

And there was no doubt a lot of embezzling and such. Their dear leader provided guidance.