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Zorra

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Member since: Tue Sep 23, 2003, 11:05 PM
Number of posts: 25,558

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Some Democrats are supporting a candidate who exercises this type of poor judgment,

who makes deadly serious mistakes that result in costly, unjustifiable destructive wars, and the tragic, unnecessary deaths and cripplings and maimings of hundreds of thousands of innocent people.

The crushing heartbreak and sorrow of innocent loving mothers and fathers who lost their children to the consequences of this "mistake". The crushing heartbreak and sorrow of innocent orphaned children, whose mothers and fathers were brutally slaughtered as a consequence of "mistakes".

They're dead, and their families and friends who still survive, some of them physically maimed for life, will live for the rest of their lives with the horror, pain, and heartbreak that is the result of this "mistake" every single day for the rest of their lives.

A candidate who believed in George W. Bush and Bush's call to war for Wall St. profits and profiteers in a defense industry billions of dollars profit bonanza of blood, torture, and wanton destruction.

A candidate who believed in George W. Bush, and Bush's call to war, despite the constant, visible, vocal, desperate pleas and warnings of millions of liberal progressives, most notably the opposition of the Democratic Progressive Left in the US Congress.

The deaths of hundreds of thousands, maybe millions of people under these circumstances is not a mere "mistake".

It's a holocaust. (Definition of holocaust: destruction or slaughter on a mass scale, especially caused by fire or nuclear war).

And some Democrats actually want to put someone who exercised such poor judgment, who made such a tragic mistake, in the White House. Some Democrats actually want to elect someone with such poor judgment, someone who made the tragic mistake of believing in George W. Bush. Someone who believed George W. Bush's reasons for going to war and voted to give Bush unfettered license to begin his legacy, his murderous war on the innocent people of Iraq.

And as a result of this "mistake", we now have eternal wars for profit, and radical groups such as ISIS, raging out of control in the Middle East.

Some Democrats actually want to elect this person who made such a tragic mistake to the position of Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces of the United States. It's unfathomable.

I want no part in any future "mistakes", except, hopefully, in preventing them by electing a candidate who voted "nay", a candidate who was not party to the "mistake" of giving Bush a license to kill with impunity.

A "mistake"?

Really?


That's deceitful, Sid. I did not call the actions of BLM protestors that.

My comment was directed at an Original Post article.

I later explained how, if a group repeatedly over time insinuates that progressive Democrats are racist, and don't care about race issues, but does not clearly explain why they believe progressive Democrats are racist, and don't care about race issues, then they are not doing anything to help their cause, are helping to fragment the Democratic party.

I can't help it if people misunderstand and misconstrue what I say, deliberately or not deliberately. Below is exactly what I explained about the term I used. I did not receive any constructive input in response to my request for a clear explanation of what progressives need to do to help the AA community.

In this case, it is yelling at people who are not black, but who sincerely want to do everything

they can to help, but don't know what to do. Calling these people racists because you feel they are not helping you, but when they ask "What do you want me to do", they get no answer.

Getting threatened by "we're not going to vote for your candidate if you don't listen to me", and then listening, and listening, and listening, but not hearing anything specific about what how we can help.

Tell us to wrap ourselves in a flag on the courthouse steps and burn ourselves. Go out in the street and protest ask us to join you. Ask us to donate to the charity of your choice, just clearly let us know what you want us to do.

We're not elected officials. we don't have their power to elicit change. We try to nominate the candidates we feel will do the most to help, but they almost never get nominated. Instead vanilla corporate candidates get elected and do nothing to help. This is not the fault of Progressive Democrats, it is the fault of the people who elect the candidates who don't try to fix the problems.

When people say, "hey, what you are doing doesn't seem to be working for you, maybe try something different, try voting for the people who appear to be the ones who are most likely to help you, they get told "don't tell me how to vote".

It's like being a mouse in a maze, a catch 22, an unsolvable puzzle. And it makes me want to give up. I want to help, but obviously don't know how. I ask how can I help, but get no clear answer.

I understand African Americans are angry, You have every fucking reason to be. Non AA progressives are angry too, but people not directly by a problem can only understand and feel it to a fraction of what the oppressed people feel.

But we don't understand why African Americans are blaming us, yelling at us, threatening us, for being responsible for these conditions. Our candidates almost get nominated, so we vote for the same people you do, in the hope that at least some progress will be made.

We don't understand why you are not yelling at the republicans who are killing you and making your lives hard. We don't understand why you are not yelling at the corporatist Democrats who are not helping you. Instead, it seems you are misdirecting your anger at us.

This is causing me to want to just give up, I want to help, and try to help, and get yelled at and threatened for doing so. This makes me resigned to a fractured voting block, and a republican government. Which would be horrible for all of us.

So, please, please, if you wouldn't mind, tell me, right here and now, simply, and clearly, in plain simple language, exactly and specifically what you want non- African Americans to do to help the black community.

I work with people who can't help themselves, and who cannot speak. I do the best I can to to determine from their methods of communication what they need me to to do help them.

So please to tell me. Plain and simple.

I'm listening. But I'm really stupid. So I need you to please make it it clear, simple. and specific.

Thank you.

--------------------------------------------
Again, I cannot help it if people misconstrue, or misunderstand, deliberately or not deliberately, the meaning of what I say. Third Way type posters deliberately misconstruing facts and posts by progressive DUers is a fact of life on DU, and most everyone here knows it.

Your statement about me calling the actions of BLM protestors that is something I did not say, and this is just another clear example of certain posters deliberately misconstruing what DU progressives post.

Personal attacks, smear jobs, strawmen, never answering questions directly, those are tactics repeatedly employed by Third Way type posters here, who, not coincidentally, are also all Hillary Clinton supporters.

So there you have it, Sid.

Carry on.


I have discovered that the DU attacks on Bernie began on the same day that

the RW extremist attacks on Bernie began.

May 27th is the date that a post by a DUer, entitled "Not Good Enough, Bernie" began the attacks on DU.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026737025

May 27th is the date that two RW extremist journalists, Byron Yorke and Charles C. Cooke, began the RW echo chamber attacks on Bernie.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=465196

Cherokeeprogressive had this post hidden almost immediately when s/he tried to expose the date of the first attack on Bernie at DU.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251471386

Draw your own conclusions, I'd probably get tombstoned if I posted mine.

This entire process was a well conceived, orchestrated maneuver by the Third Way. Third Way trolls

and their clueless followers have been lying their propagandizing asses on DU and other Democratic websites for months, doing whatever nasty shit was necessary to paint Bernie as a passive racist unconcerned about justice and equality for the African American Community.

All this time I'm thinking, what's the game here? This is some really filthy shit, they're up to no good with this, spreading lies and smearing a Democratic public servant, simply because they are desperate to get their 1% Third Way candidate elected.

Then Clinton skips the NN gig (do ya think maybe she might have been tipped off?), and the Democrats who attend are discussing immigration issues when #blm does their act. #blm is not there for discussion, they are their to co-opt the event, swiftboat Clinton's competition, and the thing that makes it all perfect is that any criticism of the protest will be construed as not listening to what #blm is trying to get across.

Then a truly ugly racist website, #bernieissoblack, gets posted at DU, more bullshit lies appear from the Third Way trolls, and the media has a field day dumping on Democrats.

Of course, immediately after this, Clinton performs the next step in the script, by going on facebook or whatever, (where she is immune to any criticism or interruption, of course), and engages #blm or whoever like she is miss innocent little Mother Bo Peep, so very concerned, pretending like she wouldn't sell the black community down the river in a hummingbird's heartbeat if the global banking community required her to do so in payment for dumping millions into her campaign to serve them in the White House.

I have to admit, the talent the Third Way employs to ensure that super wealthy white people maintain control of the US government and the people of the US, came up with a pretty clever, failsafe little maneuver here.

However, this whole thing has backfired for them to a great extent. It is not that I am unsympathetic to the purported goals of #blm, or am not acutely aware of the desperate state of the African American community, who have been victimized and slaughtered by imperialist white cops in this land and others for centuries. I've been beaten with batons, unjustly jailed twice. I've had cops handcuff me facedown behind my back, one cop beating me on the back with a baton while the other joyfully ground my face into the dirt. This was right after they shot at me, while I was unarmed, while running away from them. They did not know who I was. I heard the bullet whiz by my ear before I heard the gunshot. And this is not nearly all of it.

Despite the actions of the Third Way, and any agents or agency they employ, to knowingly or unknowingly do their nasty business for them in an effort to maintain and increase the control the wealthy white 1% and their botcops have over our government and our lives, I will continue to struggle to control and regulate the power of the 1% and their cops to abuse with impunity me, the black community, all other oppressed minorities, even straight white men.

From my point of view, one of the best ways for me to help achieve this goal is to elect Senator Sanders to the Presidency of the United States. His past actions and integrity prove to me that he understands my struggles and will work assiduously to address my grievances. Anybody can speak words. Words are for lies in politics.

I have always held my nose and voted for the lesser of two evils since 1992. It was a matter of conscience. I knew that any Democrat would be better than a republican, so I went to the polls to do my part to keep the fascists out of the WH.

But for the first time, there has come a point where the possible lesser of two evils has been a part of something so heinous that I cannot, in good conscience, ever vote for this person.

I could never, in good conscience, vote for anyone who would debase him or herself, for personal gain, by being part of a horrible smear/swiftboat campaign used to attempt to besmirch the reputation, and slander the integrity, of a person totally innocent of the insinuations leveled against them. I don't care if it's a homeless person, or the queen of the world, who they attempt to maliciously slander, I could never associate myself with, let alone vote to elect to the most powerful leadership position in the world, anyone who would knowingly be a part of these types of dirty deeds, either actively or passively. And I'm quite sure that I'm not the only one driven to this course of action by these unfortunate recent events.

To be clear, it is not my intention here to speak for Senator Sanders, or presume to "protect" him. A longtime democratic socialist Senator in the swamp of the conservative US Senate needs no protection from anyone or anything. I'm simply explaining why, if Hillary Clinton is nominated by the Democratic Party to be the Democratic party presidential nominee, this lifetime yellowdog Democrat won't be voting for the Democratic candidate for president for the first time in the almost five decades in which I have been eligible to vote.

Hanging out with war criminal Henry Kissinger ~


Barack Obama is President of the United States. Bernie Sanders is not.

The "Hecklers" would be far more likely to get their concerns addressed by petitioning a sitting President to take notice of their plight on order to find redress for their concerns, rather than by heckilng Presidential candidates who have a history of working to address these grievances throughout their political tenure.

However, it may be that the "Hecklers" have already employed approaching the President, but to no avail, for it is apparent that the President has failed to adequately address the concerns of the "Hecklers", and has failed to take action necessary for satisfactory redress of the concerns of the "Hecklers."

Otherwise, the "Hecklers" would not be heckling candidates running for the Democratic Presidential nomination, in a desperate attempt to get their voices heard by an apathetic government.

In fact, the very real, very serious problems, that are of such grave concern to the "Hecklers", have been an ongoing shame and mockery of justice in America for centuries, yet appear to have continued, unabated, during President Obama's tenure.

All you need to do is examine Senator Sander's history and political record to know that it is an absolute certainty, that if Bernie Sanders is elected President of the United States, President Sanders will do everything within the scope of his power and authority to resolve the problems of the "Hecklers" to their greatest satisfaction.

Black lives matter. And this is one more critical reason why we should all vote for Bernie Sanders.

Sanders in Selma Says Civil Rights Struggle Continues
Saturday, March 7, 2015

SELMA, Ala., March 7 – U.S. Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) today joined U.S. Rep. John Lewis (D-Ga.) and other civil rights pioneers on the 50th anniversary of an historic civil rights march that led to enactment of the Voting Rights Act.

“In 1965, against racist legalized violence, incredibly brave men and women put their lives on the line to demand that all Americans, regardless of their color, have the right to vote. And they won. When people stand together for justice, nothing is impossible,” Sanders said.
snip---
“What Bloody Sunday was about was showing the entire country and the entire world how far some of the racist officials in Alabama would go to prevent African-Americans from participating the political process and from voting,” Sanders said. “What happened on that bridge that day was a huge step forward for democracy in America. But what is happening right now – not just in the South but all over this country – are efforts by Republican governors and Republican legislatures to make it harder for African-Americans, for low-income people and for senior citizens to vote.”

The election of Obama, the first African-American president, is a sign of the nation’s progress in the past half century, Sanders said. “But we also know that much more needs to be done. Today, African American unemployment is double the national average while African American household income is $17,000 less. The struggle for racial and economic justice continues,” Sanders said.

http://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/sanders-in-selma-says-civil-rights-struggle-continues

This thread has many posts that echo the conservative hippie haters who

despised us for exposing their nasty little Vietnam war when we hit the streets in protest in the 60's.

We were correct then, we are correct now, and we'll be correct tomorrow.

But sadly, no matter what we say, or do, we can't fix stupid...

Justice Scalia suggests asking a hippie about gay marriage. Here’s how to find one near you

The "hippie mantra", "live simply, so that others may live" is an incomprehensible concept to brainwashed Reagan baby consumerbots, who were fed a steady diet of "all things conservative are good, all things liberal are bad", and who Rush Limbaugh taught to hate hippies, while they were growing up.

I remember how we watched in horror, as waves of conservative propaganda filled all the airwaves, day after day, year after year, and brainwashed the populace, beginning after the Reagan coronation, and paid for by a 1% that was determined that no social, economic, political, and philosophical movement like the hippie/civil rights movements would ever again threaten their wealth, power and control.

Their efforts, judging by this thread, were enormously successful beyond their wildest dreams.

So, to all the hippies, and other free thinking liberals, past, present, and future, never give up, because "they" never have, and never will, until they either destroy everything, or we stop them from destroying it once and for all.

"Businessmen, they drink my wine, plowmen dig my earth...there are many here among us, who feel that life is but a joke. But you and I, we been through that, and this is not our fate.

So let us not talk falsely now, the hours getting late...





Bernie Sanders moves to larger venue for Phoenix speech
Associated Press 12:31 p.m. MST July 16, 2015

http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/arizona/politics/2015/07/16/bernie-sanders-phoenix-speech-larger-venue/30237471/





Unfortunately, there are no safeguards that limit the power

of the wealthy to control our government through the use of their great wealth. They consistently utilize their wealth to neutralize most democratic processes in the US. Because the wealthy have taken away our ability to democratically determine our own destinies, and have maliciously instituted a de facto oligarchy in our nation, we have an obligation to relieve them of the weapon they use for controlling us - this weapon being their wealth.

Wealth needs to be regulated and limited until our country legally eliminates the power of wealthy private interests to control our government.

Unfortunately, because of the very nature of the greed that causes the very wealthy to act to control our government in their own interests, they will never stop manipulating our government with their wealth. Therefore, in order to establish the goals of a more just and equal democracy mandated by the Constitution, we are simply going to have to tax the power out of the wealthy in order to keep them from circumventing democracy and destroying our planet.

The greedy rich kids have not played nice with their toys, and now reponsible moms and dads all over America are going to have to break out the tough love to keep the greedy rich children from hurting everyone else, and destroying our planet, with their playthings.

And, ya know, like, taxing them out of power is just soooo much more preferable, and so much less messy, than the eventual inevitable revolutions and guillotines that will be employed by billions upon billions of hopeless, angry, impoverished folk, if the greedy rich are allowed to continue to own our governments and our planet, while hoarding, controlling, and wasting the critical natural resources that we all need to share wisely in order to provide a pleasant future for all of our children and beyond.




If they started their own party, it would have failed. Infiltrating and

neutralizing the Democratic party was their most logical and effective course of action.

They created a compromised this Democratic party. They did this by using wealth and treachery to covertly subvert the traditional Democratic party New Deal populist platform during the Reagan debacle, and making it more like the corporatist republican party platform, but leaving it considerably different from the republican party by espousing any social concern issues that would not conflict with the profit and control desires/requirements of wealthy private interests.

They don't really care if a republican or a Democrat is in office, as long as the officeholder does not go against the needs of the major financial interests. In this way, they created, and maintain, our current "lesser of two evils" one and a half party system.

The only major threat to their 1 1/2 party system of control by oligarchs is the populist Left. They know they can easily dupe, control, even create, the naive, oblivious, and impotent "moderate center" with propaganda from all types of media sources, . Creating a cult of personality around certain political figures creates and draws a culture of starry eyed sycophants to help them maintain control and promote their profit goals.

Like you said, sabrina1, the Left is the fly in the ointment, the only actual threat left to the revolutionary dictatorship of the oligarch that remains on the planet. And wealthy private interests have worked long and hard to minimize the Left in both reputation and numbers, dumbing down the population through cuts in education, constant propaganda, and making it more difficult for the average person to prosper, even survive.

Honestly, I can't imagine the oligarchs allowing the Left to endanger their *Matrix* through systemic political means, but I'm all about helping Bernie drive them out of our government if it is indeed possible.

I have posted the following passage many times here. Markos understands the full scope of global oligarchy and its completely devastating effect on humanity and our beautiful planet. What he wrote in this essay is as real as it gets.

It explains the ideology of, and the motivation behind, the now defunct DLC and the Third Way. It explains why the globalists are using economic warfare to depose the government of Venezuela in order to bring it under oligarch control.

The global power of the financial centers is so great, that they can afford not to worry about the political tendency of those who hold power in a nation, if the economic program (in other words, the role that nation has in the global economic megaprogram) remains unaltered. The financial disciplines impose themselves upon the different colors of the world political spectrum in regards to the government of any nation. The great world power can tolerate a leftist government in any part of the world, as long as the government does not take measures that go against the needs of the world financial centers. But in no way will it tolerate that an alternative economic, political and social organization consolidate. For the megapolitics, the national politics are dwarfed and submit to the dictates of the financial centers. It will be this way until the dwarfs rebel . .

http://struggle.ws/mexico/ezln/1997/jigsaw.html






Many center right Democrats protest when we refer to the center right as "Third Way".

yet they support anti-democratic Third Way/DLC corporate candidates who will strive to maintain corporate control of government. Those right center Democrats who consciously approve of oligarchy, control of the US government by wealthy private interests, will rarely admit it on DU, because they realize that oligarchy is despised by the majority of DU members.

Like Shakespeare so accurately wrote, "A rose by any other name still smells as sweet".

The main body of center right Democrats is a group that consciously, or unconsciously, primarily supports laissez faire capitalism, and control of government and the economy by wealthy private interests, but who support liberalism in social issues. They may claim that they do not support global laissez faire capitalism and control of the US government by wealthy private interests, but they consistently support Democratic candidates who promote them.

Center right Democrats generally vehemently support these candidates. These supporters may not be "card carrying members" of the Third Way, but in principle, judging from their actions, it is clear that these center right Democrats support the candidates who promote the Third Way/DLC agenda.

Occasionally, a center right Democrat will proudly admit supporting the Third Way and their agenda, but this is rare. Like republicans and libertarians, these Third Way self-described Democrats acknowledge support of laissez faire capitalism, and promote oligarchical government in the United States and elsewhere around the globe as well.

The Third Way will support any social issue, the support of which will increase the possibility of their Third Way candidate getting the Democratic nomination, as long as that issue is within accordance with the agenda of the corporate entities/wealthy private interests that control the US government.

Some center right Democrats may be astoundingly ignorant and/or self-deceived about their own reasons behind support of Third Way right centrism, but it is what it is. Their actions speak for themselves, and denial is not just an incorrect spelling of a the name of a large river in Egypt.

The above, and the situation described in the passage below, are what democrats in the Democratic party, and democrats everywhere, are up against in our struggle to institute genuinely democratic governments in our country, and all the nations of our planet whose majority of citizens desire the right to control their own political destiny:

The global power of the financial centers is so great, that they can afford not to worry about the political tendency of those who hold power in a nation, if the economic program (in other words, the role that nation has in the global economic megaprogram) remains unaltered. The financial disciplines impose themselves upon the different colors of the world political spectrum in regards to the government of any nation. The great world power can tolerate a leftist government in any part of the world, as long as the government does not take measures that go against the needs of the world financial centers. But in no way will it tolerate that an alternative economic, political and social organization consolidate. For the megapolitics, the national politics are dwarfed and submit to the dictates of the financial centers. It will be this way until the dwarfs rebel . .


http://struggle.ws/mexico/ezln/1997/jigsaw.html

Join the Democratic democratic revolution...vote for Bernie Sanders ~ Social and Economic Justice for All.

Press conferences are easier for a Prez with a transparent agenda, who is

not owned by wealthy private interests, and who has no reason or desire to lie...

Reporter: President Sanders, what is your position on the TPP?

Prez Bernie: I'm against it.

Reporter: Why is that, Mr. President?

Prez Bernie: The Trans Pacific Partnership is a disastrous trade agreement designed to protect the interests of the largest multi-national corporations at the expense of workers, consumers, the environment and the foundations of
American democracy. It will also negatively impact some of the poorest people in the world.

The TPP is a treaty that has been written behind closed doors by the corporate world.
Incredibly, while Wall Street, the pharmaceutical industry and major media companies have full knowledge as to what
is in this treaty, the American people and members of Congress do not. They have been locked out of the process.

Further, all Americans, regardless of political ideology, should be opposed to the “fast track” process which
would deny Congress the right to amend the treaty and represent their constituents’ interests.

Let’s be clear: the TPP is much more than a “free trade” agreement.
It is part of a global race to the bottom to boost the profits of large corporations and Wall Street by outsourcing jobs; undercutting worker rights; dismantling labor, environmental, health, food safety and financial laws; and allowing corporations to challenge our laws in international tribunals rather than our own court system.


Press Conference Host: And there you have it, folks. Next week, President Sanders will be fielding questions about his recent Executive Order, guaranteeing protection from employment and housing discrimination for LGBT persons nationwide.

I'm Keith Olbermann. Good night, and Good Luck.
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