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WhaTHellsgoingonhere

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Member since: Thu Dec 22, 2005, 09:00 AM
Number of posts: 4,271

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I've said that. She'll prove she can work across the isle by compromising

And by compromising, I mean giving the Rs what they want: an end to welfare as we know it, the end of Glass-Stegal, NAFTA, TPP, the bailout of banksters and Wall Street, disenfranchising black men with crime law (based on all of above, I'm still at a loss as to why blacks are solidly behind Clinton).

That's pretty easy to say.

Bernie, on the other hand, won't do any of that Third Way bullshit.

But this only matters to Progressives. Third Wayers couldn't be happier with more of the same capitulating Democrats.
Posted by WhaTHellsgoingonhere | Thu Feb 11, 2016, 08:01 PM (0 replies)

As a Sanders supporter, it's not going to work because it's too abstract

he has no tangible relationship with blacks like the Clintons, even though their policies were disastrous for blacks. Michelle Alexander noted that a better way to count unemployment among blacks is to count those incarcerated. When you do that, unemployment is 42%. Maybe that's the unemployment number Trump "heard."
Posted by WhaTHellsgoingonhere | Thu Feb 11, 2016, 11:36 AM (0 replies)

Can he get it? vs Does she deserve it?

Hi bravenak, I believe this article, which argues Hillary doesn't deserve the black vote adds "nuance" to the discussion.

http://www.thenation.com/article/hillary-clinton-does-not-deserve-black-peoples-votes/


As I said earlier this morning, Bernie isn't tangible like Hillary is because they don't know him. I'm going to elaborate on that. Bernie is a young, white sensation because he's a social media and YouTube phenom. Bernie is heavily dependent on this medium since he's got to spend a lot of time in every state introducing himself then explaining his platform. I just can't imagine many blacks of any age or gender are turning to social media or YouTube to learn about Bernie. Nina Turner, former Ohio state senator and former Hillary supporter, makes a compelling argument for why Bernie would appeal to black voters. But, like me, her conclusion is the same: it's a heavy lift to convince them. If you haven't heard Nina Turner stump for Bernie, you can find her on YouTube

Lest I forget, the establishment endorsements. They typically do the heavy lifting for their constituents and their constituents rely on them for that.
Posted by WhaTHellsgoingonhere | Wed Feb 10, 2016, 07:25 PM (1 replies)

Why Hillary Clinton Doesn’t Deserve the Black Vote

Is this article about nuance? ("nuance" cites an earlier discussion)

"What have the Clintons done to earn such devotion? Did they take extreme political risks to defend the rights of African Americans? Did they courageously stand up to right-wing demagoguery about black communities? Did they help usher in a new era of hope and prosperity for neighborhoods devastated by deindustrialization, globalization, and the disappearance of work?

No. Quite the opposite."

..."Some might argue that it’s unfair to judge Hillary Clinton for the policies her husband championed years ago. But Hillary wasn’t picking out china while she was first lady. She bravely broke the mold and redefined that job in ways no woman ever had before. She not only campaigned for Bill; she also wielded power and significant influence once he was elected, lobbying for legislation and other measures. That record, and her statements from that era, should be scrutinized. In her support for the 1994 crime bill, for example, she used racially coded rhetoric to cast black children as animals. “They are not just gangs of kids anymore,” she said. “They are often the kinds of kids that are called ‘super-predators.’ No conscience, no empathy. We can talk about why they ended up that way, but first we have to bring them to heel.”

Both Clintons now express regret over the crime bill, and Hillary says she supports criminal-justice reforms to undo some of the damage that was done by her husband’s administration. But on the campaign trail, she continues to invoke the economy and country that Bill Clinton left behind as a legacy she would continue. So what exactly did the Clinton economy look like for black Americans? Taking a hard look at this recent past is about more than just a choice between two candidates. It’s about whether the Democratic Party can finally reckon with what its policies have done to African-American communities, and whether it can redeem itself and rightly earn the loyalty of black voters.

* * *

An oft-repeated myth about the Clinton administration is that although it was overly tough on crime back in the 1990s, at least its policies were good for the economy and for black unemployment rates. The truth is more troubling. As unemployment rates sank to historically low levels for white Americans in the 1990s, the jobless rate among black men in their 20s who didn’t have a college degree rose to its highest level ever. This increase in joblessness was propelled by the skyrocketing incarceration rate."

http://www.thenation.com/article/hillary-clinton-does-not-deserve-black-peoples-votes/

This is identical to Chicago. Despite the fact that Rahm notoriously neglects the southside while spending his time rubbing elbows with deep pocket businessmen and building up the northside around the clock, black leadership (the establishment) threw their support behind him and poor blacks overwhelmingly voted for him. The similarities go further. Just as the challenger, Sanders, is an unknown commodity, Rahm's opponent, relatively unknown Chuy Garcia was never introduced to the black community. Only 7 months after his re-election, those who overwhelmingly supported him in April have been calling for him to resign since November.

Posted by WhaTHellsgoingonhere | Wed Feb 10, 2016, 02:11 PM (6 replies)

It's a bit too early to rely on Nate Silver

Nate introduced his model in March 2008. A lot had transpired between 2007 and March. His model would have predicted Hillary to win, then flipped to Obama after early results. In other words, his model never captured the groundswell that propelled Obama to victory. What's 100% certain, Nate would have picked Hillary for a long time, then switched to Obama. Since we never see the flip, we believe his model is infallible.

I said this a couple of times, Bernie's greatest obstacle is that he's unknown. He really needs to spend a month in SC. Interestingly, I just read that that's what inspired Silver to create his model; the polls are off because nobody knows who Obama is.

“What you heard on television was, Hillary was inevitable, she’s up 20 points,” he said. “She’s up 20 points because people had heard of her. They hadn’t heard of Obama.”...


In March, he introduced FiveThirtyEight.com, and it quickly became a go-to site for readers whose interest in raw numbers...


http://mobile.nytimes.com/2008/11/10/business/media/10silver.html?referer=
Posted by WhaTHellsgoingonhere | Wed Feb 10, 2016, 11:21 AM (36 replies)

This goes a long way in explaining the great divide between...

young and old women. Older, white women had sexism to overcome, but college was affordable and the American Dream was within their reach. Today, young women of all races have greater opportunities, hypocritically. They are facing a different obstacle: indentured servitude to banksters. It's important to both old and young women that they see a woman president in their lifetime. Older women are running out of time. It's not the #1 priority for younger women, suffocating debt is.
Posted by WhaTHellsgoingonhere | Wed Feb 10, 2016, 07:52 AM (0 replies)

Enough Superdelegates will endorse Bernie to put him over the top

Hillary might even concede.

Otherwise, there will be blood. Anyway, I don't think there's any reason to worry about that today.
Posted by WhaTHellsgoingonhere | Wed Feb 10, 2016, 07:16 AM (0 replies)

Why are all of Hillary's strategic, most high profile "brains" men, again?

Idiots like Mark Penn and David Brock. That absolutely contradicts her message. If you refuse to hire women to shape your message, you're sending a hollow message, and hypocritical.

On Edit: I originally said "advisors" so I had to be more specific because 3 women behind the scenes don't get much notice, if any. I was thinking David Axelrod, Mark Penn, Steve Schmidt ("brains") strategists so I totally eff'd up the original title.
Posted by WhaTHellsgoingonhere | Wed Feb 10, 2016, 07:01 AM (14 replies)

You guys only see what's under your noses.

Hillary will get nothing, not even SCOTUS appointees. People hate her, stop listening to Chris Matthews slobbering about the good old days of Tip and the Gipper.

Electing Hillary is a commitment to the status quo. Congratulations, you're relatively happy with the status quo.

A Bernie win indicates the party has left you behind (to political revolution) and is a signal to the hundreds of Dems endorsing Hillary that they, like Hillary, must move with Bernie or get swept out.

You miss the significance of that, so let me repeat it. From the very start, Hillary has been forced toward Bernie, not vice versa. That's not leadership. That's playing defense, her comfort zone. She loves being attacked, she reminds us daily. You can surely expect the rest of the establishment to move toward Bernie, as well, should he win. At this point, the establishment wants to protect its interests and maintain the status quo.

The establishment would naturally think primary challenge, today. He's not a Democrat and he's a threat to the status quo, i.e., the establishment.

It's worth repeating, because this point never penetrates the shell around Hillary and her supporters: she will accomplish nothing. People think the Rs are obstructionist now? They revile her. As she's doing in this primary, Hillary is going to be playing the woman card a lot if she gets elected. For someone who wants to cozy up to Obama, she should have learned that lesson from him. He never stooped so low as to blamed racism for the attacks being hurled at him. That's leadership. "Oh woe is me" isn't.

Another thing you all miss: Obama was the change candidate, but turned into an establishment president. People want change more than ever, which is why someone calling for change for 30 years is resonating.

Finally, people are tired of Hillary's dumb wars.
Posted by WhaTHellsgoingonhere | Tue Feb 9, 2016, 07:31 AM (1 replies)

She's Goliath. But she moved to her comfort zone: being defensive

Hillary let's us know time and again that her greatest quality is her defense. She's been in so many storms and she's fought off all the attacks, and "Look at me, I'm still standing and ready for more!"

That's not leadership.

For the first time, she has the upper hand. She's Goliath. The war can finally be fought on her terms. But she kept drifting and drifting from her spot, closer to bedrock, Bernie Sanders. Bernie's demonstrating leadership, here, and she's finding she's fighting on his terms and, as a result, been doing what she does best: play defense.

Her supporters want to make her "defensiveness" all about sexism, but she never fought the fight on her terms, she fought it on someone else's terms. That was her decision.

Stupid.

Because she moves away (flips and flops) from her past positions, Hillary reminds me of that guy who gets caught in a lie, and on the fly has to make up another lie to cover up the first, and so on...

It doesn't look "presidential."
Posted by WhaTHellsgoingonhere | Fri Feb 5, 2016, 08:03 PM (2 replies)
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