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Duer 157099

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Member since: Fri Nov 12, 2004, 11:54 AM
Number of posts: 17,609

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Not me

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023247838

Zimmerman was holding Trayvon by the hoodie when Z fell backwards, pulling TM down with him

I'm so sick of the Z story being told as the "official" version, so I'm putting this version out there, based on logic, Rachel's testimony and some astute DUers (ht: SoCalDem).

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3302824

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023245488

1) Z came up behind Trayvon as TM was "getting away" and grabbed him by his sweatshirt on the right side (drawstring pulled all the way down). Z grabbed with his left hand because his gun was in his right hand, already drawn because that's what a wannabe cop would do.

2) Trayvon swung around with his elbow up (do it; stand up and have someone grab you near your shoulder and see what your elbow does) and smacked Z in the nose, right side. This was right when Rachel heard him say "Get offa me! Get offa me!" (let me go).

3) The blow to Z's nose knocked him off his feet and he fell backwards, still holding onto Trayvon's sweatshirt (so he wouldn't get away, because they always do). He falls down on the pavement and smacks the back of his head.

4) Trayvon falls with him because Z is still holding the shirt, and when Trayvon's body hits Z's, his head smacks the ground a second time.

5) Z is still holding the sweatshirt, pointing the gun at him and telling him "you're gonna die tonight motherfucker"

6) Trayvon is screaming at the top of his lungs. This is when John Good sees them with Trayvon on top.

7) Z shoots Trayvon.

You know the rest.

How does Juror B37 know that Zimmerman didn't grab Trayvon's sweatshirt and try to hold onto him?

Rachel heard Trayvon yelling "get offa me!" which people also use to mean "let me go" and Trayvon's hoodie drawstring was pulled way down on the right side, something that can happen when someone grabs your sweatshirt there and pulls.

Juror B37 said that Trayvon is very much responsible for his own death because he didn't leave the scene after George let things go too far (poor Georgie!) and that is the reason George was forced to kill Trayvon.

She apparently never even considered that George may have grabbed Trayvon. Everything B37 says reveals that she simply never heard Rachel Jeantel aside from the "creepy ass cracker" comment. Said that if Rachel had heard something happening (which she did, and testified to) why didn't she say anything? Said that she didn't know anything about Trayvon because nobody talked about what he was like (oh yeah? I heard several hours of Rachel testifying and talking about what Trayvon was like.

B37 must have color deafness.

More incredible things Juror B37 said on CNN!!

I swear I just heard her say to Anderson Cooper that the reason she didn't believe Rachel Jeantel's testimony is because the timing of the phone calls was such that if what Rachel said was true, that is, that she heard Trayvon interacting with Z ("Why you following me for?") that the police dispatch that Z was on the phone with would have also heard that and he didn't.

She then goes on to elaborate (because Anderson asked her to clarify) that Z had hung up 2 minutes before Trayvon and Rachel had ended their call, therefore the police dispatch should have heard the interaction between Z and Trayvon.

I swear she just said that! This was her reason for DISREGARDING RACHEL'S TESTIMONY!!! She said that herself to Anderson Cooper on national TV.

Go listen yourself and see if 1) she actually said that and 2) if you have a different interpretation of what the hell she meant if I got it wrong.

This woman is SERIOUSLY confused. And George is a free man because of it.

Holy shit. It just keeps going on and on.

Everyone that is congratulating the jurors for following the Judge's instructions... psssst, c'mer

On CNN just now, anonymous juror speaking with Anderson Cooper.

AC asks her whether it made any impact on her when police officer Chris Serino testified that he thought Z was being truthful?

Her response? "It did. It made a BIG impact."

Now, for those paying attention: what part of Serino's testimony did Judge Nelson tell the jurors to disregard?

Anyone?

ETA: verbatim quote from AC360 for those who need it:

AC: "So, when he (Serino) testified that he found George Zimmerman to be more or less overall truthful, did that make an impression on you?

Juror: "It did. It did. It made a BIG impression on me."

Here's how you prove a negative

Remember when the prosecution had witnesses testify to the absence of Z's blood or DNA on TM's hands? That is positive negative proof.

But what did the defense do? They claimed that it could have washed off, that the evidence wasn't properly handled, etc. That this lack of evidence wasn't really lack of evidence.

So why did the defense get to object to negative proof, but yet the burden of proof of the prosecution depended on proving the absence of something, that is that it wasn't self defense?

Fucking backasswards, that's what it is.

Poll: How long before this POS kills again?

He will, it is just a matter of when, where and who the next victim is.

I say within 1 year.

You want to know what I reasonably doubt?

I very strongly reasonably doubt, based on everything I now know about Zimmerman and his cop-wannabe-fetish, that Zimmerman kept his firearm holstered while he was pursuing his suspect.

Think about this from Z's perspective. He wants to be a cop, he has studied how cops behave, he probably has watched cop shows his whole life.

A cop in pursuit of a suspect does what?

1) they call for backup. Z did that by calling the NEN.

Then what is the very next, the VERY NEXT thing they do?

They grab their weapon.

Zimmerman had his gun in his hand the MINUTE he tells the NEN dispatch that Martin is running (and that he's following him).

I would bet on it. I am certain of it.

Look, Zimmerman made a mistake

Let's face it, he made a mistake. He mistook Trayvon Martin for a neighborhood prowler. He mistook Trayvon's self-defensive behavior as aggressive towards him. He mistook whether his fired shot landed in Mr. Martin's body. He mistook that Trayvon died from the gunshot wound.

Mr. Zimmerman made a lot of mistakes. And those were just on the night of the incident.

Mr. Martin has already paid the ultimate price for Mr. Zimmerman's mistakes.

Now it is time for Mr. Zimmerman to pay the price for his own mistakes.

I hope the jury errs on the side of making Zimmerman at least partially if not wholly responsible for his actions, even if they were mistakes.

If any more mistakes must be made, I hope they are made in such a way that Zimmerman has to deal with the consequences of his actions.

Re: Dr. Bao testimony, ME in Zimmerman trial

Did he ever get the chance to explain the reason that he had absolutely zero memory of that autopsy? He kept alluding to it as though there was some really good reason, but he never elaborated. Did it ever come out?

This witness was truly the worst witness I've ever seen. Anybody who complained that Rachel Jeantel was a bad witness needs to go back and listen to her testimony again after listening to Dr. Bao. She, in comparison, was a stellar witness. Actually, she wasn't a bad witness at all in the first place. I liked her and liked what she had to say. I give her a load of credit for maintaining her composure--for the most part--during that badgering by the asshat prosecution.
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