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1a2b3c (724 posts) Click to EMail 1a2b3c Click to send private message to 1a2b3c Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster Click to add this poster to your Friend List
Jan-10-03, 01:26 AM (ET)
Reverse Racism
There seems to be alot of talk about racism today. Do any caucasions feel they have been discriminated against because of there color? Has anyone said any racist comments to you? I was just wondering if anyone else has been picked out because they were white, dont flame me.


In Memory Of Hamsterdancer, 1,141 Posts.

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  Table of Contents

  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
 No. vmounts Jan-10-03 1
   yeah i have had a few jobs like that 1a2b3c 01/10/2003 2
       Many years ago Yupster 01/10/2003 3
       The whole idea of unions is to achieve equal treatment oasis 01/10/2003 4
       What union? Most have a grievance process to deal with nothingshocksmeanymore 01/10/2003 6
           The carpenter union. 1a2b3c 01/10/2003 8
               How would you rate your job performance, attendance and oasis 01/10/2003 11
                   excellent 1a2b3c 01/10/2003 14
                       I would file a grievance or EEO complaint oasis 01/10/2003 16
                           I am not really worried about it. 1a2b3c 01/10/2003 17
                               nothing will be done about it if you don't file a complaint noiretblu 01/10/2003 18
                                   i typed out a big lon message 1a2b3c 01/10/2003 20
                                       age discrimination is real noiretblu 01/10/2003 23
               Here's my observation Old and In the Way 01/10/2003 12
                   Bingo Stevie D 01/11/2003 51
 Can a Hispanic female butt in with an observation? Clete Jan-10-03 5
   great points private_ryan 01/10/2003 7
       No, I wasn't Clete 01/10/2003 9
           HA! Good one! fricasseed_gourmet_rat 01/11/2003 45
   Very good point 1a2b3c 01/10/2003 10
   Hey Clete Political1 01/10/2003 19
 Racism is racism--and it happened to me, a white, when I was a kid fed2dneck Jan-10-03 13
   atleast it wasnt 1998 1a2b3c 01/10/2003 15
       Still happens. I used to work... fricasseed_gourmet_rat 01/11/2003 46
           yes, see 1a2b3c 01/11/2003 49
 My life is a paradox. The Backlash Cometh Jan-10-03 21
 Why, yes. It happens to me all the time. progressivejazz Jan-10-03 22
   Because they don't have to Karenina 01/10/2003 24
   hey the second one you mentioned 1a2b3c 01/10/2003 30
 IMNSHO "reverse racism" is a stupid phrase acerbic Jan-10-03 25
   THANK YOU Skittles 01/10/2003 28
   yes it is 1a2b3c 01/10/2003 31
   right wing buzzword knowledgeispower 01/10/2003 35
       one reverse thing I've always wondered though... Scimmio 01/10/2003 36
       I'm with you, knowledgeis power! zanana 01/11/2003 56
 The Media & Government haroldford Jan-10-03 26
   Examples? And is "legacy"(AA for rich, white people) not discriminator... Dr Fate 01/10/2003 29
       Well i dont know what all he was saying about the media and government 1a2b3c 01/10/2003 32
   Harold Ford Cheswick 01/10/2003 33
       I don't know if I buy that argument either oustemnow 01/11/2003 44
           This is all y'all got? I dont see how Chris Rock jokes = anti-white Dr Fate 01/11/2003 57
 Recently I was kidnapped YANG Jan-10-03 27
 No, I haven't been "discriminated" against. JanMichael Jan-10-03 34
 2003 -- where I work (bunch of professionals) just had a racist incide... AP Jan-10-03 37
 constructions trades house a lot of bigots stevebreeze Jan-10-03 38
   I see this stuff at work all the time too. 1a2b3c 01/10/2003 40
 Reverse Racism Doesn't Exist repeater138 Jan-10-03 39
   I already explained the term in post #31 1a2b3c 01/10/2003 41
       drrrr repeater138 01/11/2003 42
           I said read post 31 1a2b3c 01/11/2003 43
               Why don't we call a spade a spade cookie99 01/11/2003 47
                   That is kind of what ive been saying 1a2b3c 01/11/2003 48
                       Quite right cookie99 01/11/2003 50
                   no it's justice TeacherCreature 01/11/2003 53
               PLEASE Read this TeacherCreature 01/11/2003 52
 an excuse to feel better goddess40 Jan-11-03 54
 There is an idea that certain things are acceptible TheRedMan Jan-11-03 55

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vmounts Donating Member (1045 posts) Click to EMail vmounts Click to send private message to vmounts Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster Click to add this poster to your Friend List
Jan-10-03, 01:32 AM (ET)
1. No.
I have never personally experienced any reverse racism that I am aware of. There have been jobs that I interviewed for and didn't get and being in a technical field some of those probably went to foreign folks but it most likely had to do with years of experience etc. In fact I have seen a preference for US born or naturalized people in hiring practices, especially on the issue of speaking clear English.
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1a2b3c (724 posts) Click to EMail 1a2b3c Click to send private message to 1a2b3c Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster Click to add this poster to your Friend List
Jan-10-03, 01:39 AM (ET)
Reply to post #1
2. yeah i have had a few jobs like that
In my union female workers are also chosen over a male. Being picked over for a job doesnt really bother me much. I was kind of thinking more along the lines of racial slurs because you are white. Jobs are a good place to see reverse racism though.


In Memory Of Hamsterdancer, 1,141 Posts.

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Yupster (270 posts) Click to EMail Yupster Click to send private message to Yupster Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster Click to add this poster to your Friend List
Jan-10-03, 02:00 AM (ET)
Reply to post #2
3. Many years ago
I played high school basketball in New York City. While the majority of the players were black, I was white.

I was from a neighborhood without blacks, and rarely heard racial slurs spoken against any group, but boy did I hear them on the court and in the locker room. Not just from my opponents either. My own team was pretty tough on me.

Now live in Texas -- hope things are better now -- this was 20 + years ago.

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oasis Donating Member (2040 posts) Click to EMail oasis Click to send private message to oasis Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster Click to add this poster to your Friend List
Jan-10-03, 02:26 AM (ET)
Reply to post #2
4. The whole idea of unions is to achieve equal treatment
I don't understand why there would be male/female or any other type of discrimination.
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nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (9528 posts) Click to EMail nothingshocksmeanymore Click to send private message to nothingshocksmeanymore Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster Click to add this poster to your Friend List
Jan-10-03, 02:33 AM (ET)
Reply to post #2
6. What union? Most have a grievance process to deal with
this.

...jokes can be noble. Laughs are exactly as honorable as tears. Laughter and tears are both responses to frustration and exhaustion, to the futility of thinking and striving anymore. I myself prefer to laugh, since there is less cleaning up to do afterward - and since i can start thinking and striving that much sooner. - Kurt Vonnegut

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1a2b3c (724 posts) Click to EMail 1a2b3c Click to send private message to 1a2b3c Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster Click to add this poster to your Friend List
Jan-10-03, 02:51 AM (ET)
Reply to post #6
8. The carpenter union.
Local 470 is where i work but it goes on in all of the locals around here. I can tell a few stories. I have a friend, Lillian, i go to school with who was told by the company that they was going to keep her hired on with the company because she was an african american female. This of course pissed her off. I also know another female who joined the union the same time i did and has never been laid off. There is no way to prove that she is kept on for being a female, but you just know. That is how the system works in the union, you have to employ so many females and so many minorities. I have been laid off 7 times in the last 2 years and so has all of the others that started with us. So you have to wonder why the female has never been laid off, you know. Now let me just say i have no problem with her having a job. I just think she should have to sign the out of work list and look for work like the rest of us.
Another company i worked for kept a female minority on full time, even though she couldnt use a skil saw or nail gun because she was affraid of them. Again nothing wrong with that but if it was a male, black white or orange, they would have been sent packing.


In Memory Of Hamsterdancer, 1,141 Posts.

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oasis Donating Member (2040 posts) Click to EMail oasis Click to send private message to oasis Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster Click to add this poster to your Friend List
Jan-10-03, 02:57 AM (ET)
Reply to post #8
11. How would you rate your job performance, attendance and
ability to get along with other employees?
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1a2b3c (724 posts) Click to EMail 1a2b3c Click to send private message to 1a2b3c Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster Click to add this poster to your Friend List
Jan-10-03, 03:10 AM (ET)
Reply to post #11
14. excellent
30 minutes early, pack more wood than guys twice my size, more knowledge then the other apprentices(i worked non union my whole life and been building houses since i was 12) I get along with everyone, except this one guy who really got under my skin for discriminating against me because of my age. That also happens alot as a carpenter.


In Memory Of Hamsterdancer, 1,141 Posts.

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oasis Donating Member (2040 posts) Click to EMail oasis Click to send private message to oasis Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster Click to add this poster to your Friend List
Jan-10-03, 03:21 AM (ET)
Reply to post #14
16. I would file a grievance or EEO complaint
I would camp at the shop stewards door until I got results.
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1a2b3c (724 posts) Click to EMail 1a2b3c Click to send private message to 1a2b3c Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster Click to add this poster to your Friend List
Jan-10-03, 03:29 AM (ET)
Reply to post #16
17. I am not really worried about it.
It is wrong but in the end nothing will be done about it. I believe that companies are set up to hire a certain amount of women and minorities, am i right?

What i really hate is companies that hire family on full time. The guys they hire dont even work, they dont have to, dad is the boss. Those are the ones that really get me going. The last job i was on had 5 apprentices and i was the only one that didnt have family in the company. The owners son worked there and he didnt like the way he was treated compared to me. He was a cool person. 23 years old and spent his spare time teaching bible studies to kids at his church. There was a real a**hole jorneyman that would yell and bitch at me all day long but would brown-nose up to Jed, the owners son.


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noiretblu Donating Member (4100 posts) Click to EMail noiretblu Click to send private message to noiretblu Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster Click to add this poster to your Friend List
Jan-10-03, 03:41 AM (ET)
Reply to post #17
18. nothing will be done about it if you don't file a complaint
maybe you should consider it, if you've been treated unfairly.



Northern California Chapter

In politics nothing happens by accident. If it happened, you can bet it was planned that way.
Franklin Delano Roosevelt


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1a2b3c (724 posts) Click to EMail 1a2b3c Click to send private message to 1a2b3c Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster Click to add this poster to your Friend List
Jan-10-03, 03:56 AM (ET)
Reply to post #18
20. i typed out a big lon message
but this crappy AT&T broadband modem sucks. anyway to make it short, i dont think i am treated unfairly, i think a few of the women are treated special.
ANd then i went on about how old carpenters are discriminated against because they are older, slower and beat up from years of working in an unforgiving job.


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noiretblu Donating Member (4100 posts) Click to EMail noiretblu Click to send private message to noiretblu Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster Click to add this poster to your Friend List
Jan-10-03, 05:59 PM (ET)
Reply to post #20
23. age discrimination is real
i'm beginning to face it myself. i hear the distinction you are making, and i understand what you mean about favortism. it happens quite frequently.

at my last job, i was asked to train my supposed supervisor on the accounting software the company uses. no one, except me, thought it was strange that she didn't have those skills already...a supposed requirement of the job. this woman was also fond of uses racial slurs, and loved to tell about all the "chinks" and "spics" (she never used the "n" word to me...but she came close) she had to deal with.

she also gave the other black people under her supervision an extremely hard time. she held them, and me to a standard that no on else in the company had to meet...this in spite of her own utter incompetence and lack of qualifications.

additionally, this company practiced wage discrimination, based on gender and race. i did an analysis of the wages paid to all employees and found:
women were routinely paid less than men...same education, same job classifications.
the black employees were routinely paid less than the white employees. this was a university, so a lot of people had advanced degrees. i found that the black employees with MA degrees generally made less than the white employees with BA degrees...regardless of job classifications.

when i complained about her, her lack of skills, her use of racial slurs, her harassment of the black employees, and when i brought my analysis to the attention of the provost...i was fired. i didn't bother filing a complaint because they are broke, and i didn't want the job back anyway...i figure they will self-destruct within the next year. a lot more to this story, but just wanted to give a general idea.

on another temp job (i was initially hired to fill in for the accounting manager on maternity leave) i was asked to train the new accounting manager. normally, training consists of showing people the particulars of the company's system, but in this case, the woman didn't know how to use Excel...that's like a carpenter who can't use a hammer.

i made them pay me extra money to train the twit. the previous manager was a hs school graduate, yet the two employees she "supervised," both black, had BAs...both had applied for the position, both were passed over for the twit. the new manager was even less qualified (i don't even think she had an accounting background)...but she was skinny and blonde, and apparently what some would consider "cute," but dumb as a post. i heard she lasted about two months, and both black employees who got passed over for her position moved on to better things.

on another job...years ago...i was hired the same day as a another woman. she took care of the payables, and i handled the receivables and payroll. shortly after she was hired, she started missing days...at least one per week, and i was asked to take up the slack...no problem. by the end of our three-month probation period, this woman was given a larger raise than i got, even though she hardly came to work, an did little while she was there. ironically, she called in sick (again) on the day of the review

i've had some good (and fair) job experiences, but i can recite a number of other examples of what i faced in the work world. merit is total bullshit, in my view...it's all about who you are and what priviledges you're granted because of who you are. my experience hasn't been all bad because i have a MA, and years of experience, but it's been bad enough. i now work independently. it's been a struggle because i'm just starting out, but i have given up on working for other people...just too much bullshit.

but, i have only been called a "n" a couple of times in my life, and never to my face.



Northern California Chapter

In politics nothing happens by accident. If it happened, you can bet it was planned that way.
Franklin Delano Roosevelt


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Old and In the Way Donating Member (4515 posts) Click to EMail Old%20and%20In%20the%20Way Click to send private message to Old%20and%20In%20the%20Way Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster Click to add this poster to your Friend List
Jan-10-03, 02:58 AM (ET)
Reply to post #8
12. Here's my observation
In the 90's under Democratic leadership, 20MM jobs were created. Seems like these discussions come up only when we have Republican administrations.

Sadly, I think this is part of the Republican plan for us. Much better that we tear each other apart so they can focus on plundering our treasury.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/cgi-bin/duforum/duboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=2574&forum=DCForumID22

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Stevie D Donating Member (1258 posts) Click to EMail Stevie%20D Click to send private message to Stevie%20D Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster Click to add this poster to your Friend List
Jan-11-03, 03:01 AM (ET)
Reply to post #12
51. Bingo
You are correct.


Charlie, my best friend...

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Clete Donating Member (1937 posts) Click to EMail Clete Click to send private message to Clete Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster Click to add this poster to your Friend List
Jan-10-03, 02:31 AM (ET)
5. Can a Hispanic female butt in with an observation?
Well, half of me is of German descent, so I have Anglo relatives. I have noticed that whites discriminate against other whites all the time. I mean everyone who has a house or apartment discriminates against the guys who have to live in trailers. College grads discriminate against drop outs. Southerners and Northerners discriminate against each other.

A girl in my dorm when I was in college, who was from Atlanta, Georgia, told me her mother refused to live north of the Mason-Dixon line. Her father was an airline executive and had to work in NYC, so he had to commute home to Atlanta every weekend cause mama couldn't stand yankees, you know other white people.

A friend from high school, whose family was Slovenian told me what went on within the Balkan community of immigrants. The Dalmations couldn't stand the Croatians, who couldn't stand the Serbs who couldn't stand the Chechs. Everyone hated the Poles, who didn't like the Germans. Makes me understand the recent wars there much better.

So my point is that white people are going to have to start getting along better among themselves first and then maybe they can reach out to other races and ethnicities different from themselves. In the meantime, we minorities are going to have to get our equality by demanding it, through affirmative action and other legal ways.

We are going to have to demand taking laws off of the books that discriminate in any way. Yes, a few people's toes are going to be stepped on and that is regrettable, but white people, especially white men have had favorable status for over three hundred years in this country so the time has come for sharing in the prosperity and freedom of opportunity in this country.

I love my country...but I fear my government.

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private_ryan Donating Member (2373 posts) Click to EMail private_ryan Click to send private message to private_ryan Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster Click to add this poster to your Friend List
Jan-10-03, 02:39 AM (ET)
Reply to post #5
7. great points
some blacks hate other blacks and whites, some whites hate other whites and blacks and some hispanics hate the Cubans, Puerto Ricans and viceversa. In Italy the southerners are hated by the North, Serbs don't get along with anyone, whites had white and black slaves going back thousands of years. You even got brothers who kill each other for crying out loud.

How do you propose on "the time has come for sharing in the prosperity and freedom of opportunity in this country. ".
I could see freedom but what about the prosperity? I hope you weren't talking about reparations

---------------------------------------------------
“You have to hand it to the Bush family, in nearly six years of two Bush presidencies, there hasn’t been any real job growth at all.”
Bob Shrum, a Democratic strategist.

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Clete Donating Member (1937 posts) Click to EMail Clete Click to send private message to Clete Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster Click to add this poster to your Friend List
Jan-10-03, 02:52 AM (ET)
Reply to post #7
9. No, I wasn't
however, reparations for all the women who cleaned up this country the past three hundred years for no pay wouldn't hurt.

What I meant by prosperity, was a chance at a good education and getting a job and subsequent promotions on your merits. There are still discriminatory practices going on that favor European white males. Everytime Bush has a press conference, look at whose around him and you'll see what I mean.

I look in every business I go into. I look around for the diversity and I see it in many places, but in many places I don't especially as you start going up into the executive offices of corporations, law firms, brokerages and other bastions of white male influence. An equal opportunity America is still a long way off.

I love my country...but I fear my government.

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fricasseed_gourmet_rat (1000 posts) Click to EMail fricasseed_gourmet_rat Click to send private message to fricasseed_gourmet_rat Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster Click to add this poster to your Friend List
Jan-11-03, 00:54 AM (ET)
Reply to post #9
45. HA! Good one!
however, reparations for all the women who cleaned up this country the past three hundred years for no pay wouldn't hurt.

Now you're talking.

--Caroline

The ideas of the ruling class should not be the ruling ideas.
--Radio 4, "Struggle"

Mandating a pledge of allegiance to a government is something Saddam Hussein would do.
--Jesse Ventura

President Bush threw out the first pitch last night at the World Series. He was wearing a firefighter's jacket. Now think about this: he's throwing out the first pitch, wearing a firefighter's jacket, and he's the president of the United States. He is living every 8-year-old's dream!
--Jay Leno

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1a2b3c (724 posts) Click to EMail 1a2b3c Click to send private message to 1a2b3c Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster Click to add this poster to your Friend List
Jan-10-03, 02:55 AM (ET)
Reply to post #5
10. Very good point
If someone thinks they are above another they discriminate, no matter what skin tone. Rich hate the poor and the poor hate the rich so to speak.


In Memory Of Hamsterdancer, 1,141 Posts.

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Political1 (4 posts) Click to EMail Political1 Click to send private message to Political1 Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster Click to add this poster to your Friend List
Jan-10-03, 03:43 AM (ET)
Reply to post #5
19. Hey Clete
You said something about the Dalmations hating the Croatians, and Serbs, were there 101 Dalmatians doing the hating?
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fed2dneck Donating Member (3052 posts) Click to EMail fed2dneck Click to send private message to fed2dneck Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster Click to add this poster to your Friend List
Jan-10-03, 03:04 AM (ET)
13. Racism is racism--and it happened to me, a white, when I was a kid
My parents were told I couldn't go to a camp for disadvantaged kids because "I was the wrong color." And this was in 1968!

Earth to Bushies: If you have nothing to hide, then quit acting like you're hiding something!

Since the Coup of 2000, the rule of law has given way to the rule of the lawless
LIBERTY IN MOURNING
http://libertyinmourning.com

http://libertyinmourning.blogspot.com

http://community.webshots.com/user/fed2dneck


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1a2b3c (724 posts) Click to EMail 1a2b3c Click to send private message to 1a2b3c Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster Click to add this poster to your Friend List
Jan-10-03, 03:17 AM (ET)
Reply to post #13
15. atleast it wasnt 1998


In Memory Of Hamsterdancer, 1,141 Posts.

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fricasseed_gourmet_rat (1000 posts) Click to EMail fricasseed_gourmet_rat Click to send private message to fricasseed_gourmet_rat Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster Click to add this poster to your Friend List
Jan-11-03, 00:57 AM (ET)
Reply to post #15
46. Still happens. I used to work...
...at a camp for disadvantaged kids. Most of them were African-American or Hispanic. There were probably over 100 kids at the camp and fewer than a dozen were white -- the white kids really kept to themselves and didn't make much of a show of themselves. As the camp went on I realized that it could have been because they believed that they weren't as "worthy" of being there as the other kids even though their families were just as disadvantaged. As for why they didn't socialize with the non-white kids, I thought it was initially out of their own racism towards minorities, but then I noticed that the minority kids seemed equally unwilling to socialize with the white kids.

Funny world we live in.

--Caroline

The ideas of the ruling class should not be the ruling ideas.
--Radio 4, "Struggle"

Mandating a pledge of allegiance to a government is something Saddam Hussein would do.
--Jesse Ventura

President Bush threw out the first pitch last night at the World Series. He was wearing a firefighter's jacket. Now think about this: he's throwing out the first pitch, wearing a firefighter's jacket, and he's the president of the United States. He is living every 8-year-old's dream!
--Jay Leno

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1a2b3c (724 posts) Click to EMail 1a2b3c Click to send private message to 1a2b3c Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster Click to add this poster to your Friend List
Jan-11-03, 01:47 AM (ET)
Reply to post #46
49. yes, see
It goes both ways.


In Memory Of Hamsterdancer, 1,141 Posts.

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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1563 posts) Click to EMail The%20Backlash%20Cometh Click to send private message to The%20Backlash%20Cometh Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster Click to add this poster to your Friend List
Jan-10-03, 11:59 AM (ET)
21. My life is a paradox.
My hubby works for a very pro-active affirmative action company and he's white. So I live both sides of the fence.

Those who care to can use the search button to determine for themselves my commitment to affirmative action. But I would also attest that, though there have never been any personal insults directed to him related to his color, there have been financially hard times experienced in this family because he was white and passed over for promotion because his boss was very, very selective about race and gender. (However, this might be an exceptional case in the way these selections were made, because it involved one person making over-zealous decisions. It's a very complicated story, but suffice it to say, that it didn't last for long.)

So, I understand the resentments from white caucasians. They are real, but so are the needs of minorities which will never be truly ameliorated until we put an end to the good ole boy networks in this country.

That said, I'd like to plant a seed and hope to see it grow on this message board. Among whites, I've noticed, as well as a Republican friend of mine has noticed, that there seems to be layers of whiteness. My Republican friend is not a W.A.S.P., but he acts, talks and looks like one. Only his last name gives him away. He said that many white, non-wasps are co-opted whites. They're all put into the same bowl and led to believe they all suffer the same fate, but if you look at the last names of those who make it to the top, another picture emerges.

I always wondered if others noticed the same.

Republicans: God creates them, and the devil brings them together.

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progressivejazz (360 posts) Click to EMail progressivejazz Click to send private message to progressivejazz Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster Click to add this poster to your Friend List
Jan-10-03, 12:23 PM (ET)
22. Why, yes. It happens to me all the time.
When a black person and I are trying to get a cab, the black person always gets a cab first.

When I'm driving through a predominantly black or hispanic neighborhood, the police are always pulling me over because I "look suspicious".

When I move to a new city, realtors are always steering me away from the upscale parts of town where the minorities live.

And slightly off topic, it kind of bothers me that every company I've worked for has had predominantly minority women as its upper-level management. But I'm sure they're more qualified than I am, so I guess that isn't reverse discrimination.

Two points:

1. All the above is sarcasm.

2. I am a white male. What the hell is the matter with white males that they can't see the discrimination against minorities and women all around them?


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Karenina Donating Member (2349 posts) Click to EMail Karenina Click to send private message to Karenina Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster Click to add this poster to your Friend List
Jan-10-03, 06:20 PM (ET)
Reply to post #22
24. Because they don't have to
and don't WANT to. I also LOVE the subtle assumptions of "inferiority" that tend to permeate these threads.
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1a2b3c (724 posts) Click to EMail 1a2b3c Click to send private message to 1a2b3c Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster Click to add this poster to your Friend List
Jan-10-03, 09:08 PM (ET)
Reply to post #22
30. hey the second one you mentioned
LAST EDITED ON Jan-10-03 AT 09:09 PM (ET)

has happened to me before. It has also been the other way around too. I have been pulled over in a predominatly white neighborhood, for no reason at all, because i had a few of my not white friends with me.

And I never said minority women or men arent discriminated against.


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acerbic Donating Member (3281 posts) Click to EMail acerbic Click to send private message to acerbic Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster Click to add this poster to your Friend List
Jan-10-03, 08:16 PM (ET)
25. IMNSHO "reverse racism" is a stupid phrase
Racism is racism and that's it, no matter who does it to whom. IF somebody calls efforts to counteract and compensate for actual racism "reverse racism", well, that's just purposeful rhetoric...
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Skittles Donating Member (8023 posts) Click to EMail Skittles Click to send private message to Skittles Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster Click to add this poster to your Friend List
Jan-10-03, 08:48 PM (ET)
Reply to post #25
28. THANK YOU
same with "reverse discrimination". WTF? DISCRIMINATION IS DISCRIMINATION IS DISCRIMINATION, and you DEMEAN some victims when you make CATEGORIES out of them.
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1a2b3c (724 posts) Click to EMail 1a2b3c Click to send private message to 1a2b3c Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster Click to add this poster to your Friend List
Jan-10-03, 09:11 PM (ET)
Reply to post #25
31. yes it is
I didnt know how else to right the subject line so that everyone would know what it was about.


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knowledgeispower (157 posts) Click to EMail knowledgeispower Click to send private message to knowledgeispower Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster Click to add this poster to your Friend List
Jan-10-03, 09:36 PM (ET)
Reply to post #25
35. right wing buzzword
"Reverse racism" is nothing more than a fallacious argument against affirmative action.

Supposedly affirmative action is wrong because it discriminates against white people. What they don't bother to mention is that affirmative action is meant to set right hundreds of years of oppressing minorities.

"My own country is the biggest purveyor of
violence in the world today...For the sake of
hundreds of thousands trembling under our
violence, I cannot be silent.

-Dr. Martin Luther King, Beyond Vietnam
speech, 1968

US FOREIGN POLICY IS MASS MURDER

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Scimmio Donating Member (982 posts) Click to EMail Scimmio Click to send private message to Scimmio Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster Click to add this poster to your Friend List
Jan-10-03, 09:52 PM (ET)
Reply to post #35
36. one reverse thing I've always wondered though...
many conservative, talk radio types like to toss around those catch phrases like 'reverse-discrimination' and 'reverse-racism'...do they realize that what they are really saying that 'white-against-black/brown' discrimination and racism became so pervasive, that the very accepted definition meant 'white-against' or 'white-hatred-for'? ...just always wondered if there could be an acknowledgement from the fact that they now had to use such modifiers, as to 'reverse' the everyday usage of the terms...

Pray for the dead, and fight like hell for the living. - Mother Jones

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zanana (584 posts) Click to EMail zanana Click to send private message to zanana Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster Click to add this poster to your Friend List
Jan-11-03, 10:09 AM (ET)
Reply to post #35
56. I'm with you, knowledgeis power!
When I read posts that hint of disagreement with Affirmative Action, I can see how well the conservative propaganda machine works. Dems against Affirmative Action always seem a bit hypocritical to me. They seem to be saying ; Well, I agree with it in principle, but the minute is affects ME, I'll turn against it. Sometimes I think that Democrats (even those here at DU), can fall for Republican propaganda if it suits them.
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haroldford (2 posts) Click to EMail haroldford Click to send private message to haroldford Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster Click to add this poster to your Friend List
Jan-10-03, 08:35 PM (ET)
26. The Media & Government
It seems in the media & in the U.S. Government that it is okay to promote anti-white sentiment. Comedians, Actors, Reporters, etc. can make negative comments about caucasions and it is accepted.

In our laws there are things, such as affirmative action, that discriminate against whites.

I wonder why it is alright to discrimate against one group but it is an unforgiveable offense to do so against another group.

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Dr Fate Donating Member (4273 posts) Click to EMail Dr%20Fate Click to send private message to Dr%20Fate Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster Click to add this poster to your Friend List
Jan-10-03, 09:01 PM (ET)
Reply to post #26
29. Examples? And is "legacy"(AA for rich, white people) not discriminatory?
Please provide some examples of the media and government being "Anti white"-last time I checked, both institutions were made up of about 95% white folks- so it must be whites making fun of themselves- but I'm sure you have examples.

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1a2b3c (724 posts) Click to EMail 1a2b3c Click to send private message to 1a2b3c Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster Click to add this poster to your Friend List
Jan-10-03, 09:18 PM (ET)
Reply to post #29
32. Well i dont know what all he was saying about the media and government
As for the comedians that part is true. Did anyone see the Chris Rock movie where he came back to life as an old rich white guy? His jokes werent as funny when a white guy was telling them. So in a way it is sort of the unspoken rule not to make jokes about black people if youre white. I do it all the time, i have to. All my black friends do it to me. One of them said i couldnt barbeque cause i was white. Guess who had to show him how to que the salmon fillets? Thats right, whitey.


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Cheswick Donating Member (4203 posts) Click to EMail Cheswick Click to send private message to Cheswick Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster Click to add this poster to your Friend List
Jan-10-03, 09:29 PM (ET)
Reply to post #26
33. Harold Ford
LAST EDITED ON Jan-10-03 AT 09:31 PM (ET)

Why would you come to a place called democraticunderground and make that argument.? There is no reverse discrimination. The people with the power can't be hurt by racism. The only way racism hurts is when it is used to keep people down. Are you suggesting white people are being kept in their place, forced to accept second class status or lose everything, because people tell those jokes?

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oustemnow Donating Member (1692 posts) Click to EMail oustemnow Click to send private message to oustemnow Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster Click to add this poster to your Friend List
Jan-11-03, 00:49 AM (ET)
Reply to post #33
44. I don't know if I buy that argument either
In college I heard a speaker make that argument--his name was John Williams (NOT the composer) and all I could think was that he was splitting hairs, using the terms racism (which, arguably, could be considered a systemic phenomenon) and discrimination (which, obviously, can occur on any number of levels, including the personal) interchangably to present a dishonest argument.
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Dr Fate Donating Member (4273 posts) Click to EMail Dr%20Fate Click to send private message to Dr%20Fate Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster Click to add this poster to your Friend List
Jan-11-03, 02:57 PM (ET)
Reply to post #44
57. This is all y'all got? I dont see how Chris Rock jokes = anti-white
Chris Rock also refers to blacks he disagress withas "niggers"(not the affectionate Niggaz)- I happen to think his jokes about Blacks & whites are funny.

A white guy making fun of black folks could be funny if done properly- like the black "Jonny Cochran" parody on Seinfeld- but that is up to the comedian- not some "anti-white" conspiracy...

The only "example" of anti-whiteness you guys have is Chris Rock- who is not a racist.

So far I have seen nothing to support this charge.

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YANG (5460 posts) Click to EMail YANG Click to send private message to YANG Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster Click to add this poster to your Friend List
Jan-10-03, 08:47 PM (ET)
27. Recently I was kidnapped
and forced to work overseas for 400 hundred years. But that probably didn't happen to everybody.

____________________________________
History teaches us that men and nations behave wisely when they have exhausted all other alternatives.
Abba Eban (Born 1915)

Things are more like they are now than they have ever been before.

Dwight Eisenhower

Reality is that, which when you no longer believe in it, it still exists.
Phillip K. Dick

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JanMichael Donating Member (1932 posts) Click to EMail JanMichael Click to send private message to JanMichael Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster Click to add this poster to your Friend List
Jan-10-03, 09:32 PM (ET)
34. No, I haven't been "discriminated" against.
However if some people knew that my relatives had been slave owners then perhaps my sunny demeanor would have been ignored.

Frankly as a member of a glorified minority, white males, I don't believe that I can be "discriminated" against.

And if it did happen I really don't think I'd bitch about it because I support laws that protect those groups, like women, that my ilk continues to fuck over even as we speak.

"This crippling of individuals I consider the worst evil of capitalism. Our whole educational system suffers from this evil. An exaggerated competitive attitude is inculcated into the student, who is trained to worship acquisitive success as a preparation for his future career.

I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals."

Albert Einstein, Monthly Review, 1949

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AP (6727 posts) Click to EMail AP Click to send private message to AP Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster Click to add this poster to your Friend List
Jan-10-03, 10:47 PM (ET)
37. 2003 -- where I work (bunch of professionals) just had a racist incident.
The higher-ups (the partners etc) are pretty good on issue of race. On one project, a new guy got a little authority when the partner supervising his team went on vacation for 2 weeks. Several of the black associates, etc., didn't like this guy's attitude on race from the get go (months ago). Sure enough, their spider senses were right. When this guy took over, he immediately gave all the shit jobs to his black colleagues (and one white sympathizer! -- the one white person who clearly socializes with the black employees the most). People spoke up. The partner can't believe that in two weeks the guy has laid the foundation for a (justified) race discrimination suit. Office is doing everything it can to repair the damage.

Oh, and I've never witnessed anything remotely similar, but with the races reversed.

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stevebreeze (203 posts) Click to EMail stevebreeze Click to send private message to stevebreeze Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster Click to add this poster to your Friend List
Jan-10-03, 10:57 PM (ET)
38. constructions trades house a lot of bigots
I see discrimination all the time. One fellow stair installer I work with is Black. He is every bit as good as I. We are on an even plane as far as ability, title, pay, yet when we are on the same job together, I am ALWAYS assumed to be in charge. I have seen builders walk past me and tell my friend he is required to sweep the floor. I have not seen a lot of evidence of 'reverse discrimination' but I see plenty of proof of discrimination against people of color. Open your eyes and you will too. We have segregated them in neighborhoods with piss poor schools then complain they can't learn.
We have had hundreds of years of slavery followed by 100 years of apartide, only a few years of trying to rectify this at all. Until we have some evidence that they have equality of opportunity something needs to be done to help make that possible.
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1a2b3c (724 posts) Click to EMail 1a2b3c Click to send private message to 1a2b3c Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster Click to add this poster to your Friend List
Jan-10-03, 11:39 PM (ET)
Reply to post #38
40. I see this stuff at work all the time too.
I have heard guys use the "N" word many times. Call people lazy or stupid cause of their skin color when in fact they themselves are the laziest out of everyone on the job. Just cause someone is learning a new trade doesnt make them stupid. Its quite hard to remember all there is to know about carpentry, or atleast hard to know how to do it right.


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repeater138 (551 posts) Click to EMail repeater138 Click to send private message to repeater138 Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster Click to add this poster to your Friend List
Jan-10-03, 11:04 PM (ET)
39. Reverse Racism Doesn't Exist
LAST EDITED ON Jan-10-03 AT 11:08 PM (ET)

Go to Africa or Mexico as a white person/gringo and you MIGHT run into some racism.

edit/add: But then it isn't reverse racism is it? What the hell is Reverse Racism anyway?

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1a2b3c (724 posts) Click to EMail 1a2b3c Click to send private message to 1a2b3c Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster Click to add this poster to your Friend List
Jan-10-03, 11:44 PM (ET)
Reply to post #39
41. I already explained the term in post #31
LAST EDITED ON Jan-10-03 AT 11:46 PM (ET)

and yes i misspelled write.

Why can a white person not be treated in a racist way? Racism just doesnt happen to white people is that what you are saying? I dont see how someone could think that if you had black skin you could suffer racial prejudice. But if your skin is white you cant. Doesnt make sense.


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repeater138 (551 posts) Click to EMail repeater138 Click to send private message to repeater138 Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster Click to add this poster to your Friend List
Jan-11-03, 00:12 AM (ET)
Reply to post #41
42. drrrr
Well wouldn't someone being racist to a white be "racism"? What makes it reverse racism? I'll tell you; reverse racism is when your own racism is alienated from yourself and percieved in the very group that you're being racist towards. It is a sham. It is denial.

I'm not saying that people don't have an irrational belief in the evil or any other generalized trait of white people. Well actuall maybe I am, since it isn't exactly irrational if you have hundreds of years of empirical evidence to fall back on. Of course real racism is systemic anyway. And as far as I can tell, despite the yelling and screaming of whites, the only people getting screwed in this country in any practical sense are people with brown skin.

I have noticed that all the white people I've ever heard bitch about "reverse racism" and claim that they got screwed because they were white, were actually idiots and completely unqualified for whatever they were trying to get. In that situation the "minority" becomes a convenient scape goat. I'm not saying that I haven't been made fun of for being white or had confrontations with minorities, but I never thought it was some kind of horrible racism and that my life was ruined because of it. Bottom line if you can't make it in the US as a white person the last group that can be blamed are minorities. I would list the blame like this (1) yourself and (2) the upper class.

That is why I said that if you want to see racism as a white person go to a country where YOU are the minority. Then you'll see racism and it won't be "reverse".

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1a2b3c (724 posts) Click to EMail 1a2b3c Click to send private message to 1a2b3c Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster Click to add this poster to your Friend List
Jan-11-03, 00:41 AM (ET)
Reply to post #42
43. I said read post 31
If you wont do it i will just tell you. I used the term reverse racism for lack of a better word. I knew that everyone would know reverse racism to mean racism against a white person. That is how it is used in common terms. I apologize for not being politically correct.
I still find it hard to believe that someone thinks just cause white people are the majority that they cant be prejudged by minorities because of the color of their skin. It makes realitivly no sense to me at all. Maybe someone can clear this up for me.
Yes brown skinned people get screwed in america. So do white people. Everyone gets screwed. There is more prejudice towards minorities than there is white people. That still does not mean that white people are not prejudged because of skin color. I have a friend who was told she was going to be kept on the job because of her skin color and sex. You dont find that racist? I think it is prejudice for all skin colors. You let a person keep their job because of skin color, then both races are being discriminated against in some way.



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cookie99 (12 posts) Click to EMail cookie99 Click to send private message to cookie99 Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster Click to add this poster to your Friend List
Jan-11-03, 01:26 AM (ET)
Reply to post #43
47. Why don't we call a spade a spade
Racism is in the mind of the racist, racial discrimination is different, it is discriminating against a person because of their race no matter what the reason.

Discrimination no matter if it be color, age, sex,religion,sexual preference,education level,mental ability,political affinity has always been around and will be for the foreseeable future and the many attempts to change that are for the most part counterproductive.

For instance 50 people apply for a job 49 males 1 female she has a 50% chance of getting the job rather than a 50 to 1 chance, is that not discrimination?

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1a2b3c (724 posts) Click to EMail 1a2b3c Click to send private message to 1a2b3c Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster Click to add this poster to your Friend List
Jan-11-03, 01:44 AM (ET)
Reply to post #47
48. That is kind of what ive been saying
I started this post to see if anyone white has ever been judged by their race. I was wanting to hear some stories. I wasnt trying to say "poor me im white, the worlds not fair." Last night there was like 5 threads about racism and i started one for the white man. Most thought it was a fine topic, others seem to think i am complaining about minorities getting more or something. I can tell you i am not.



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cookie99 (12 posts) Click to EMail cookie99 Click to send private message to cookie99 Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster Click to add this poster to your Friend List
Jan-11-03, 02:18 AM (ET)
Reply to post #48
50. Quite right
Many of us have been on the receiving end of reverse discrimination but feel too guilty of the past to speak out.

In Australia we have treated our native Australians abominably and as white folk are want to do we are now finishing the job of our forefathers by killing them with misguided kindness.

I think I will put up with a bit of reverse discrimination as penance for the sins of my fathers. Hopefully the pendulum will stop in the middle someday.

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TeacherCreature (254 posts) Click to EMail TeacherCreature Click to send private message to TeacherCreature Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster Click to add this poster to your Friend List
Jan-11-03, 08:56 AM (ET)
Reply to post #47
53. no it's justice

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TeacherCreature (254 posts) Click to EMail TeacherCreature Click to send private message to TeacherCreature Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster Click to add this poster to your Friend List
Jan-11-03, 08:53 AM (ET)
Reply to post #43
52. PLEASE Read this
http://www.euroamerican.org/library/Racismdf.asp

This is a definition of racism. Racism is a whiteman's invention. There is no racism by brown and black skinned people against white people. There may be prejudice but reverse racism does not exist.

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goddess40 (19 posts) Click to EMail goddess40 Click to send private message to goddess40 Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster Click to add this poster to your Friend List
Jan-11-03, 09:05 AM (ET)
54. an excuse to feel better
It can be used as an excuse to make someone feel better when they don't get the job.
I know someone (male) who didn't get a promotion because they hired a female. He was sure it was because of a quota system but it was because she was better qualified with a better work history. I'm sure it happens with race issues too. It's 'better' to be mad that you where discriminated against than face up to your short comings.
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TheRedMan (467 posts) Click to EMail TheRedMan Click to send private message to TheRedMan Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster Click to add this poster to your Friend List
Jan-11-03, 09:29 AM (ET)
55. There is an idea that certain things are acceptible
when they are done to whites but not to others around here. Not long ago, someone on these boards was dismissing something kind said about Mississippi by saying "dream on crackers."

Had any comment like this been directed against anyone else he would have been excoriated. While I am no big fan of Mississippi, I am a Southernor and hearing these screed fired what felt my general direction i found upsetting.

Generally, I don't care about people treat me like a white boy (I am actually mixed race, part Cherokee. I just look white). somehow, though, this offended me, and what REALLY offended me about it was that no one else here cared.

In general I don't catch a lot discrimination because on all the forms I check the "mixed" box but it does bother me when I see racism directed at ANYONE go unchecked. SO, to answere the topic, yes I do sometimes see racism directed at the majority race, and I see it as being very accepted on these boards. But it does seriously impact my life, so I rarely really complain about it.

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