Would anyone vote for the spinless wimpy-ass Dick Gephardt...

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Oracle (718 posts) Jan-09-03, 03:58 AM (ET) Would anyone vote for the spinless wimpy-ass Dick Gephardt... LAST EDITED ON Jan-09-03 AT 04:07 AM (ET) for the Democratic nominee for president? Does he really think he has a chance in hell? Who keeps lying to him and telling him he does? He would get his ass kicked by any Democrat presidential hopeful not to mention any Repupublican... He kissed Bush's ass for two years...did absolutely nothing to speak of as House Minority "Leader". Who on earth would vote for this fuck? Someone should tell him the true facts, and SOON!   Top

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Subject     Author     Message Date     ID    Other than... MiloBloom Jan-09-03 1    Dean is still my choice too Enjolras 01/09/2003 2        I don't think Bush could of said it better... Oracle 01/09/2003 3            Ya know... MiloBloom 01/09/2003 5                And Union workers are lazy and demand too much money... Oracle 01/09/2003 6                    An therein is the big problem! MiloBloom 01/09/2003 7                        Reagan Likes Tort Reform sangha 01/09/2003 35                            George Bush also likes Tort Reform. Nader doesn't sangha 01/09/2003 36                                Jeb Bush Likes Tort Reform also! What are the odds? sangha 01/09/2003 37                                    And Trent Lott likes it too! sangha 01/09/2003 38                                        The NRA? sangha 01/09/2003 39                                            Mona Charon sangha 01/09/2003 40                                                Another con job? sangha 01/09/2003 41                                                    And another? sangha 01/09/2003 42                                                        And another!! sangha 01/09/2003 43                                                            Henry Bonilla sangha 01/09/2003 44                                                                Conservative think tanks and Corps likes tort reform sangha 01/09/2003 45                                                                    Another conservative think tank sangha 01/09/2003 46                                                                        And another! I'm starting to notice a pattern! sangha 01/09/2003 47                                                                            And The Cato Organization. We got a trifecta here, gang! sangha 01/09/2003 48                                                                                The Federalist Society agrees!! sangha 01/09/2003 49                                                                                    I wonder how many Dems work wih the Manhattan Institute? sangha 01/09/2003 50                                                                                        More Texans talking about personal responsibility sangha 01/09/2003 51                                                                                            Gee, I wonder who funds all these groups? sangha 01/09/2003 52                                                                                                And another blowhard org talking about tort reform sangha 01/09/2003 53                                                                                                    But some conservatives have some reservations! sangha 01/09/2003 54                    Incredible Blue_Chill 01/09/2003 20                Examples? repeater138 01/09/2003 12                    Oh Please... MiloBloom 01/09/2003 15                        Can you provide statistics bowens43 01/09/2003 17                        your analysis is flawed SCantiGOP 01/09/2003 34                    Next time you see a ridiculous warning in directions like... Yupster 01/09/2003 26                        Excellent! I had not thought of that angle. blue_dog 01/09/2003 29                MILO TeacherCreature 01/09/2003 25            Once in a blue moon, even Shrub and Rush get it right Enjolras 01/09/2003 8                even a broken clock is JNelson6563 01/09/2003 10        I do not see much wrong with being a trial lawyer mazzarro 01/09/2003 13            Well, MiloBloom 01/09/2003 16            Wow! Finally a post on this thread that makes some sense. wildwww2 01/09/2003 19  Not for the nominee Tennessee Gal Jan-09-03 4    A DEFINITE NO TO... hayu_lol 01/09/2003 9  spineless wildmanj Jan-09-03 11    Check the fucking record! StlMo 01/09/2003 58  Gephardt should take a cue from Daschle and go away into mazzarro Jan-09-03 14    Simply untrue StlMo 01/09/2003 59  Not for the nominee. dusty64 Jan-09-03 18    Impossible?! StlMo 01/09/2003 60  No. n/t deutsey Jan-09-03 21  here is a scenerio CMT Jan-09-03 22  He's too milquetoast for my tastes underpants Jan-09-03 23  I wouldn't.....nm Carl21014 Jan-09-03 24  I Don't Dismiss Him So Easily spiritstlou Jan-09-03 27    Labor and the media LURVS him. tjdee 01/09/2003 31  Sorry... Gephardt is lackluster. Yesterday's news. Weak as water. arwalden Jan-09-03 28    Lackluster?! StlMo 01/09/2003 61  Same here...no to Dick, Tom, Joe, Kerry, et al. blue_dog Jan-09-03 30    Yes, he's been mentioned Eloriel 01/09/2003 32        I think the fact that... blue_dog 01/09/2003 33            Hi blue_dog!! newyawker99 01/09/2003 55  What the Fuck are you talking about? You need the Goddamn Facts! StlMo Jan-09-03 56

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MiloBloom (205 posts) Jan-09-03, 04:08 AM (ET) 1. Other than... Dean and/or Graham I don't see any candidates worth voting for. LIEberman (nuff said)? John "I am against the war, but I'll vote for it" Kerry? Pretty boy trial lawyer and GOP Lite candidate Edwards? (As a lawyer I have an instinctive distaste for plaintiff trial lawyers... but that isn't all I have against Edwards.. his vote record is the real problem). Richard "I lost my eyebrows when I was bending down to kiss GOP ass" Gephardt Al "I Still Believe Twanna" Sharpten?   Top

Enjolras (689 posts) Jan-09-03, 04:21 AM (ET) Reply to post #1 2. Dean is still my choice too Gephardt is popular with labor, and opposed NAFTA. And for that reason alone, I'd put him ahead of Lieberman and Edwards. But that means behind everyone else. Speaking of Edwards, I'm glad to see I'm not the only one here who doesn't trust trial lawyers in general, and Edwards in particular. I'm surprised he isn't suing Bill Frist already for malpractice on behalf of that family in the Florida car crash last week. And the people bowed and prayed to the neon God they'd made and the sign flashed out its warning in the words that it was forming and the sign said "the words of the prophets are written on the subway wall" -- Simon & Garfunkel, "The Sound of Silence" Those who can, DU. Those who can't, freep. "The difference between Martin Sheen and George W. Bush is that Martin Sheen is actually convincing when he acts like a president." --Paul Begala, CNN Crossfire, 6-05-02   Top

Oracle (718 posts) Jan-09-03, 04:32 AM (ET) Reply to post #2 3. I don't think Bush could of said it better... LAST EDITED ON Jan-09-03 AT 04:35 AM (ET) about trial lawyers...I think Bush said it exactly like you and Rush did...his hatred of trial lawyers...Bush wants to make sure NO ONE can sue for more than $250,000. in damages...His corporate friends like you, love it... Not to mention trial lawyers are predominately Democrats and Bush, Limbaugh and the Repuglicans bad mouth the lawyers every chance they get. The trial lawyers donate big bucks to the DNC and repugs want that to stop. I don't trust Bush and the coporations...I'd take trial lawyers every day of the week over the lying, polluting, greedy, super wealthy corporations and that includes the fucking AMA as well!!!!   Top

MiloBloom (205 posts) Jan-09-03, 04:41 AM (ET) Reply to post #3 5. Ya know... Just because a republican once said it doesn't mean that it is automatically a lie or not based in truth. Trial lawyers, as a group, have worked very hard and well deserve the horrible reputation they have in this country. Going to school with groups of people whose desire was to become trial lawyers I was constantly amazed at the depths the vast majority of them would sink to in order to make a buck. Are ALL trial lawyers bad? No, but, unfortunately for them, far too many of them are and they have failed miserably in policing themselves. I got news for you, Tort reform is an absolute NEED in this country. Simply standing on the sidelines and screaming "NO NO NO NO NO NO" doesn't win much support for the dems on this issue. Maybe, rather than sticking their fingers in their ears, the dems should attempt to come up with a plan that protects against insurance lawsuits (these are cases brought only b/c they know it will cost the company less to settle than to fight the suit and thus, the company settles) and other frivolous lawsuits. Simply ignoring the fact that trial lawyers are the least respected profession in this country and ignoring the damage that this group does to country is short-sighted. I don't think there should a cap on awards, but I am certainly for a form of the "loser pays" method. However, I am not going to go into everything I think is wrong with the legal system in this country... that is a post for another time.   Top

Oracle (718 posts) Jan-09-03, 04:43 AM (ET) Reply to post #5 6. And Union workers are lazy and demand too much money... and have far too much power over poor mangement. ANYTHING Bush is for I'm against.   Top

MiloBloom (205 posts) Jan-09-03, 04:53 AM (ET) Reply to post #6 7. An therein is the big problem! Opposition, just for the sake of opposition is just as bad as support just for the sake of support. Better put, just because a dem says it doesn't mean it is right and just because a repuke says it, doesn't mean it is wrong. Sometimes you have to recognize a real problem and/or a good idea for what it is and anything less makes you seem like a cry baby and only helps the other side. You have to be willing to step outside of your blind support for one party and see various problems that are hurting the country and also acknowledge the vast majority of people in the country also see these things as problems as well. If you refuse to open your eyes to the very existence of the problems, you only force the other party to win over and over again, since they are the only ones offering an actual solution to the problem.   Top

sangha (5878 posts) Jan-09-03, 10:54 AM (ET) Reply to post #7 35. Reagan Likes Tort Reform http://www.reagan2000.com/Republican/rep.992.html The United States, with 5 percent of the world's population, has twothirds of the world's lawyers. Litigation has become an industry, an endin itself. The number of civil cases in federal district courts has more than tripledin the past 30 years. It now takes more than a year to resolve the averagelawsuit. Delays of three to five years are commonplace.... We therefore endorse the president's proposals for legal reform as developed by Vice President Quayle, and we salute his principled challenge to theAmerican Bar Association to clean up its own house. We support the FairnessRule, to allow the winning party to a lawsuit to recover the costs of litigationfrom the losing party. This will discourage needless suits, freeing legalresources for people with genuine cases. We believe complainants should have a choice of ways to settle problems through alternative dispute programs that will permit parties to pursueless costly and less complicated ways to resolve conflicts. We also callfor greater use of judicial sanctions to stop frivolous lawsuits. ... Some of the problems in our legal system are rooted in a declining senseof, and respect for, individual responsibility. We reaffirm that all Americansare first and finally responsible for their own behavior. In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happened, you can bet it was planned that way. Franklin Delano Roosevelt   Top

sangha (5878 posts) Jan-09-03, 10:55 AM (ET) Reply to post #35 36. George Bush also likes Tort Reform. Nader doesn't http://past.thenation.com/e2k/recent/0124sherrill.shtml Bush has been the champion and main facilitator of the so-called tort reform movement in Texas--or tort deform movement, in Ralph Nader's formulation. Here's what Nader and his co-author, Wesley Smith, have to say about this wrecking crew in their book No Contest: Corporate Lawyers and the Perversion of Justice in America: "The tort deform movement is a brazen effort by corporations and politicians beholden to corporate interests to pull off...a nationwide perpetual bailout for polluters, swindlers, reckless health care providers, and makers of tobacco, defective vehicles, dangerous drugs, and many other hazardous consumer products. The effort to wreck the civil justice system has grown over recent years into a veritable industry America's richest industrial and insurance companies and their power-lawyer lieutenants." In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happened, you can bet it was planned that way. Franklin Delano Roosevelt   Top

sangha (5878 posts) Jan-09-03, 10:55 AM (ET) Reply to post #36 37. Jeb Bush Likes Tort Reform also! What are the odds? http://flabusinessinsight.com/Articles/Features/tort.htm An elite group of trial lawyers is robbing decent, honest Floridians of their money, trust, freedom, livelihood, and peace of mind. Today frivolous lawsuits force individuals to pay huge amounts of money for damages they did not cause. Teachers cannot discipline students for fear that they, too, will be sued. Health care costs keep rising, in part because of frivolous lawsuits. All this because a few plaintiff lawyers abuse a system that sometimes allows them to place blame where it does not belong. In 1999, thanks to the hard work of the tort-reform advocates, as well as the courage of several key legislators and Gov. Jeb Bush, Florida took significant steps towards fixing its legal system. The battle, however, has not ended. Trial lawyers have already announced plans to attack the law, both in the legislature and in the courts. In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happened, you can bet it was planned that way. Franklin Delano Roosevelt   Top

sangha (5878 posts) Jan-09-03, 10:55 AM (ET) Reply to post #37 38. And Trent Lott likes it too! And Trent Lott likes it too! http://www.ama-assn.org/sci-pubs/amnews/amn_97/summ0616.htm Lott rates tort reform prospects NEW ORLEANS -- Senate Majority Leader Trent Lott (R, Miss.) told leaders of the Physician Insurers Assn. of America that the prospects for federal tort reform in this Congress are the best they've been in years. But the leaders of physician-owned liability insurance firms also heard sobering news about the rapidly escalating costs of defending physicians in malpractice cases. In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happened, you can bet it was planned that way. Franklin Delano Roosevelt   Top

sangha (5878 posts) Jan-09-03, 10:56 AM (ET) Reply to post #38 39. The NRA? The NRA? http://www.vpc.org/fact_sht/nraindus.htm More recently, in July 1995, NRA Executive Vice President Wayne LaPierre described the NRA's efforts to restrict consumer lawsuits in Guns and Ammo magazine, "We are part of the coalition that is pursuing legislation.... The industry is certainly carrying the brunt of the issue, but we're lending support." In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happened, you can bet it was planned that way. Franklin Delano Roosevelt   Top

sangha (5878 posts) Jan-09-03, 10:56 AM (ET) Reply to post #39 40. Mona Charon http://www.overlawyered.com/archives/00apr1.html * "No aspect of life is untouched by lawyers," observes Mona Charen, citing recent cases on employer liability (Hawaiian car dealership case, see March 10-12) and personal responsibility (drunk Honda driver's drowning, see March 28) and mentioning this website. Also quotes from an elaborate disclaimer presented to Girl Scouts before they go horseback riding ("Society is Oppressed by Litigation", Omaha World Herald, April 5). In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happened, you can bet it was planned that way. Franklin Delano Roosevelt   Top

sangha (5878 posts) Jan-09-03, 10:57 AM (ET) Reply to post #40 41. Another con job? Another con job http://centralohio.thesource.net/Files2/9512261.html House Speaker Jo Ann Davidson, R-Reynoldsburg, is committed to reforms, said her press secretary, Cheryl Quaye. "I like the goals of it," said Jacobson, a member of the special committee studying the bill. He said he does not like the mentality "of suing everybody in hopes we hit somebody with the money." In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happened, you can bet it was planned that way. Franklin Delano Roosevelt   Top

sangha (5878 posts) Jan-09-03, 10:57 AM (ET) Reply to post #41 42. And another? And another http://www.smartvoter.org/2000/11/07/oh/state/vote/raussen_j/paper3.html Tort Reform: Unclogging our courts from frivolous lawsuits By Jim Raussen Candidate for State Representative; District 32 Many of the most innovative companies are startups and small businesses that are particularly vulnerable to frivolous and junk lawsuits. These lawsuits pose a serious threat to both consumers and large corporations as well. They clog our courts, increase unneccessary costs, threaten our economy and delay justice for the deserving. Frivolous lawsuits merely benefit trial lawyers and drain our legal system. We can have meaningful reform of our civil laws without infringing upon justice, safety, and quality of life of Ohio's citizens. In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happened, you can bet it was planned that way. Franklin Delano Roosevelt   Top

sangha (5878 posts) Jan-09-03, 10:57 AM (ET) Reply to post #42 43. And another!! http://www.pioneerlocal.com/campaign/815/c3tort.html The tort battle Money of tort-reform lobby fueled '94 House battle Unbeknown to most voters, some of the deepest pockets in state politics engaged in a high-stakes battle in 1994, which may well have tipped the balance of power in the Illinois House. A coalition of interest groups bent on overhauling the state's civil liability system had concluded that some Democratic members of the House most definitely had to go. http://floridaliberator.org/2001/03/stories/tortTactics.html In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happened, you can bet it was planned that way. Franklin Delano Roosevelt   Top

sangha (5878 posts) Jan-09-03, 10:58 AM (ET) Reply to post #43 44. Henry Bonilla http://www.texasgop.org/library/76leg.asp Henry Bonilla Y2K Litigation: SB 598 (Duncan) prevents frivolous lawsuits Gun Manufacturers: SB 717 (Lindsay) will promote personal responsibility by preventing municipal governments from suing makers of a legal product for the criminal misuse of that product by the consumer. In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happened, you can bet it was planned that way. Franklin Delano Roosevelt   Top

sangha (5878 posts) Jan-09-03, 10:58 AM (ET) Reply to post #44 45. Conservative think tanks and Corps likes tort reform Conservative think tanks and Corps likes tort reform http://www.jacksonwilson.com/pages/tortref.htm The movement to limit corporate responsibility and accountability for corporate wrongdoers and to shift the burden to individual taxpayers is headed by the American Tort Reform Association. Did you know that this association is made up of companies including Boeing, Dow Chemical, Eli Lilly, Exxon, General Electric, Johnson & Johnson, Mobil, Monsanto, Pfizer, Union Carbide, Phillip Morris, Miller Brewing, Anheuser- Busch, GEICO, Aetna, the Chemical Manufacturer's Association, the Beer Institute, the Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers Association, Humana, Inc., and the American Medical Association? Why haven't they told you this? Why do you suppose these companies support this and similar associations? The Product Liability Coordinating Committee is another group attempting to reduce corporate responsibility and accountability. Did you know it consist of General Motors, Ford, Exxon, Monsanto, TRW, Aetna, the National Association of Manufacturers and the Chemical Manufacturer's Association? Did you know that the Civil Justice Reform Group is made up of lawyers representing General Motors, Ford, Exxon, Caterpillar, Metropolitan Life and Aetna? We'll bet you didn't know that the group called Americans for Lawsuit Reform is made up of Aetna, Allstate, New York Life, Chevron, Eli Lilly, Georgia Pacific, Amway, Humana, Rockwell, General Dynamics, Texaco, Phillip Morris, R.J. Reynolds, Nabisco, the American Petroleum Institute, and the American Corporate Counsel Association? In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happened, you can bet it was planned that way. Franklin Delano Roosevelt   Top

sangha (5878 posts) Jan-09-03, 10:59 AM (ET) Reply to post #45 46. Another conservative think tank Another conservative think tank lnks "personal responsibility" & "frivolous lawsuits" http://www.gppf.org/ Georgia Public Policy Foundation Formed in the fall of 1991, the Foundation is the only private, nonpartisan research and education organization in Georgia that focuses on state policy issues. The Foundation's members are a diverse group of Georgians that share a common belief that the solutions to most problems lie in a strong private sector, not in a big government bureaucracy. Our goal is not to provide lengthy, academic treatises that no one reads. Research is based on fact, and we are proud that we have never been found to be inaccurate in our portrayal of those facts. http://www.gppf.org/legal/agenda2000legal.htm Frivolous Lawsuits All too often, persons seeking compensation for their injuries overlook notions of personal responsibility and fault and instead seek retribution against the party or parties with the "deepest pockets." Our current civil justice system offers virtually no incentive for parties not to sue, even in cases where the claim has no merit. In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happened, you can bet it was planned that way. Franklin Delano Roosevelt   Top

sangha (5878 posts) Jan-09-03, 10:59 AM (ET) Reply to post #46 47. And another! I'm starting to notice a pattern! And another! I'm starting to notice a pattern! http://www.ncpa.org/pd/law/lawb.html The National Center of Policy Analysis (NCPA) is a nonprofit, nonpartisan public policy research organization, established in 1983. The NCPA's goal is to develop and promote private alternatives to government regulation and control, solving problems by relying on the strength of the competitive, entrepreneurial private sector. Topics include reforms in health care, taxes, Social Security, welfare, criminal justice, education and environmental regulation In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happened, you can bet it was planned that way. Franklin Delano Roosevelt   Top

sangha (5878 posts) Jan-09-03, 11:00 AM (ET) Reply to post #47 48. And The Cato Organization. We got a trifecta here, gang! And The Cato Organization. We got a trifecta here, gang! http://www.cato.org/pubs/regulation/reg19n1e.html Modern product liability litigation is particularly problematic. As has been well documented elsewhere, product liability lawsuits have made a few plaintiffs' attorneys and their clients rich. At the same time, meritless lawsuits have driven safe products, such as the morning sickness drug Bendectin, off the market, and have almost destroyed the contraceptive and vaccine industries. Plaintiffs' attorneys' most recent success was coercing a multibillion dollar settlement in the ongoing breast-implant litigation, despite an utter lack of scientific evidence supporting their claims. The proliferation of such unfounded lawsuits has created an understandable fear of the tort system among businesspeople. ***Note:They also believe that "Juries are a disaster for the civil justice system for several reasons" What patriots! In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happened, you can bet it was planned that way. Franklin Delano Roosevelt   Top

sangha (5878 posts) Jan-09-03, 11:00 AM (ET) Reply to post #48 49. The Federalist Society agrees!! The Federalist Society, too. How lovely! http://www.fed-soc.org/Publications/practicegroupnewsletters/litigation/lt010107.htm The Federalist Society agrees!! "Coming into this historic Congress, concentrated legal reform efforts had been underway for well over a decade. Often referred to as "tort reform," the primary focus of these on-going efforts had been federal reform of product liability law. ... On the other hand, if Bob Dole should win the presidency, he certainly will not be satisfied with a limited product liability proposal. He has taken a position for broad reform and has made legal reform an issue in his campaign. Dole has criticized the extraordinary influence of the single-issue plaintiff's bar and, if elected, surely would seek reforms at least as inclusive as those he sponsored in the Senate. " In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happened, you can bet it was planned that way. Franklin Delano Roosevelt   Top

sangha (5878 posts) Jan-09-03, 11:01 AM (ET) Reply to post #49 50. I wonder how many Dems work wih the Manhattan Institute? I wonder how many Dems work wih the Manhattan Institute? http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/clp.htm Among the most widely heard complaint about our national love affair with the lawsuit is that it is eroding America’s strong tradition of personal responsibility. When something goes wrong, the feeling has grown, someone else must be to blame and must owe us money. What are the consequences for risk-taking and venturesomeness, for the spirit of challenge? Conversely, what are the implications for neighborliness and collective endeavor when every attempt to reach out to help a neighbor or a schoolchild becomes a source of potential legal liability? In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happened, you can bet it was planned that way. Franklin Delano Roosevelt   Top

sangha (5878 posts) Jan-09-03, 11:01 AM (ET) Reply to post #50 51. More Texans talking about personal responsibility More Texans talking about personal responsibility http://www.duhaime.org/lawsuit.htm Sources for these true, asinine law suits stories vary. Several have been compiled by the Citizens Against Lawsuit Abuse (CALA) is a non-profit, grass roots organization of Southern Californians dedicated to putting an end to lawsuit abuse. Others are made available by the Alabama Voters Against Lawsuit Abuse (AVALA), the American Tort Reform Association (ATRA) or San Antonians Against Lawsuit Abuse (SAALA). Lawsuit abuse is no laughing matter in the USA with one report stating that: "Lawsuit abuse has taken a heavy toll on American consumers and businesses -- as much as $152 billion in 1994." Another study found cases take about 2½ to 3 years to be resolved, and even longer in appealed cases. and 50-70 cents of every jury-awarded dollar goes to lawyers and legal costs. California, Ohio and Maryland have declared a Lawsuit Abuse Awareness Week. A lawsuit brought in the highest trial court or in federal court could easily run between $50,000 and $500,000 to defend. Some words of wisdom offered by Texans Against Lawsuit Abuse: "Talk before you fight. Don't "sue thy neighbor.' Try mediation or arbitration to resolve disputes. Conflicts are inevitable in our society, but lawsuits should be the last resort. Encourage personal responsibility in our community. Too often, people look for an outside culprit to blame when something bad happens to them, even if they are personally negligent." In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happened, you can bet it was planned that way. Franklin Delano Roosevelt   Top

sangha (5878 posts) Jan-09-03, 11:01 AM (ET) Reply to post #51 52. Gee, I wonder who funds all these groups? http://www.consumerfreedom.com/ The Center for Consumer Freedom represents a coalition of restaurant operators and concerned individuals working together to defend your right to a full and varied menu of dining options. We do this through education, training, research, and public outreach. Unlike the anti-consumer activists we monitor and keep in check, we stand up for common sense and personal choice. The growing fraternity of "food cops," health care enforcers, militant activists, meddling bureaucrats, and violent radicals who think they can decide better than you "what's best for you" are not just attacking restaurants -- they're attacking liberty. In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happened, you can bet it was planned that way. Franklin Delano Roosevelt   Top

sangha (5878 posts) Jan-09-03, 11:02 AM (ET) Reply to post #52 53. And another blowhard org talking about tort reform http://www.pacjc.org/Advocacy/Sense.html Common sense, fairness, and personal responsibility, we embrace these values as a measure of sound public policy. When our elected officials evaluate new social welfare programs, educational proposals and economic principles, these are the standards they apply. These same standards apply to the examination of our current civil justice system, which is fraught with inequities and weighed down by unnecessary costs. In fact, less than half of the dollars spent in our system go to legitimate victims of negligence. One of only five states that have not adopted any significant lawsuit abuse reforms, Pennsylvania lags behind most of the nation in its efforts to restore balance to this system that hurts our economy and our taxpayers. The Pennsylvania Civil Justice Coalition (CJC), a broad-based group representing local government, nonprofits, health care providers, and business of all types and sizes, is championing the civil justice reform cause. The CJC supports a two-pronged strategy to achieve reform, which includes passage of a legislative reform package, and the adoption of the package of procedural and evidentiary rule amendments by the Pennsylvania Supreme Court proposed by Sen. David Chip Brightbill, R-Lebanon, and Sen. Jeffrey Piccola, R-Dauphin. The CJC supported legislative package would address numerous substantive changes in the civil law, including paying fair-share for harm caused; protecting innocent sellers; setting reasonable punitive damages; and setting a time limit on strict liability actions; and encouraging arbitration. The proposed rule changes focus on twelve recommendations, including adjusting appropriate claims for lost future earnings to their present value; making substance abusers accountable; discouraging frivolous lawsuits; ensuring full disclosure to juries and addressing expert testimony and junk science in the courtroom. Forty-five states have adopted one or more of these reforms. How can anyone argue against reforms that weed out fraud, cut costs, improve economic standing and maintain individuals' rights to seek appropriate compensation? How can anyone argue against reforms based on common sense, fairness, and personal responsibility? In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happened, you can bet it was planned that way. Franklin Delano Roosevelt   Top

sangha (5878 posts) Jan-09-03, 11:03 AM (ET) Reply to post #53 54. But some conservatives have some reservations! But some conservatives have some reservations! http://www.afterabortion.org/leg/Tort.htm SHOULD ABORTIONISTS BE EXCLUDED FROM TORT REFORM? In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happened, you can bet it was planned that way. Franklin Delano Roosevelt   Top

Blue_Chill (317 posts) Jan-09-03, 08:38 AM (ET) Reply to post #6 20. Incredible That a person could grow older and never grow up.... ANYTHING Bush is for I'm against. Incredible....   Top

repeater138 (518 posts) Jan-09-03, 06:12 AM (ET) Reply to post #5 12. Examples? From what I know the vast majority of suits are not frivolous. Frivolous suits rarely get heard and come with the possible price of bad reputation and being kicked out of the bar assoc. Give me examples of trial lawyers being awful. The fact is that the characature is just that. It is a strawman constructed by repubs and corporate interests to (1) attack a major source of opposition funding and (2) make corporations unsuable. Plain and simple. You seem to have bought in to the boogeyman.   Top

MiloBloom (205 posts) Jan-09-03, 06:36 AM (ET) Reply to post #12 15. Oh Please... Okay, there are two law suits against McDonalds, one for the hot coffee and one for the hot pickle. You want some more public doosies... " The parents of a man found naked and dead on the back of a killer whale at SeaWorld Orlando are suing the marine park, alleging the dangerous orca was portrayed as a huggable stuffed toy, according to a lawyer representing the family." http://www.power-of-attorneys.com/stupid_lawsuit_detail.asp?stupid_ID=22 January 2000: Kathleen Robertson of Austin, TX was awarded $780,000 by a jury of her peers after breaking her ankle tripping over a toddler who was running amuck inside a furniture store. The owners of the store were understandably surprised at the verdict, considering the misbehaving little punk was Ms. Robertson's son. June 1998: A 19-year-old Carl Truman of Los Angeles won $74,000 and medical expenses when his neighbor ran over his hand with a Honda Accord. Mr. Truman apparently didn't notice there was someone at the wheel of the car, when he was trying to steal his neighbor's hubcaps. October 1998: A Terrence Dickson of Bristol, Pennsylvania, was leaving a house he had just finished robbing by way of the garage. He was not able to get the garage door to go up, because the automatic door opener was malfunctioning. He couldn't re-enter the house because the door connecting the house and garage locked when he pulled it shut. The family was on vacation. Mr. Dickson found himself locked in the garage for eight days. He subsisted on a case of Pepsi he found, and a large bag of dry dog food. Mr. Dickson sued the homeowner's insurance claiming the situation caused him undue mental anguish. The jury agreed to the tune of half a million dollars. October 1999: Jerry Williams of Little Rock, Arkansas, was awarded $14,500 and medical expenses after being bitten on the buttocks by his next door neighbor's beagle. The beagle was on a chain in it's owner's fenced-in yard, as was Mr. Williams. The award was less than sought because the jury felt the dog may have been provoked by Mr. Williams who, at the time, was shooting it repeatedly with a pellet gun. May 2000: A Philadelphia restaurant was ordered to pay Amber Carson of Lancaster, Pennsylvania, $113,500 after she slipped on soft drink and broke her coccyx. The beverage was on the floor because Ms. Carson threw it at her boyfriend 30 seconds earlier during an argument. December 1997: Kara Walton of Claymont, Delaware, successfully sued the owner of a night club in a neighboring city when she fell from the bathroom window to the floor and knocked out her two front teeth. This occurred while Ms. Walton was trying to sneak through the window in the ladies room to avoid paying the $3.50 cover charge. She was awarded $12,000 and dental expenses. (All the above from this article on such lawsuits http://www.historyroom.com/Frivolous%20Lawsuits.htm) How about the new idiotic lawsuit against fast food companies b/c the kids got fat eating their food. And of course, lets forget about the 1000's and 1000's of cases that are filed EVERYDAY that are settled before they reach trial b/c the company decides it would be cheaper to settle the case than to fight it. Of course there are the suits I have witnessed personally, such as a woman who sued and got a settlement b/c she claimed she was fired b/c of her sex and age... the fact that she was horrible at her job, seemed to think the work week was only 4 days long and had earned numerous warnings for turning in subpar work product had NOTHING to do with it. The company settled for 50K rather than spend 100K to fight and win. I sat in on those meetings and could barely believe my ears! Nah, trial lawyers aren't a problem at all.   Top

bowens43 (809 posts) Jan-09-03, 07:40 AM (ET) Reply to post #15 17. Can you provide statistics comparing the number of frivolous suits to the number of non-frivolous suits ? Can you provide ANY examples of blatantly frivolous suits handled by Mr. Edwards or do you paint all trial lawyers with the same wide brush used by bush, rush and the other corporate apologists? "An evil exists that threatens every man, woman and child of this great nation , we must take steps to ensure our domestic security and protect our homeland." -Adolf Hitler "The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country." - Herman Goering (second in command to Adolf Hitler) at the Nuremberg Trials "He may look like an idiot and talk like an idiot but don't let that fool you. He really is an idiot." - Groucho Marx "He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would fully suffice." -- Albert Einstein   Top

SCantiGOP (751 posts) Jan-09-03, 10:50 AM (ET) Reply to post #15 34. your analysis is flawed In every one of these cases, it was the citizens on a jury who made the award, not a trial lawyer. Go and read the case about the woman who got burned by the coffee at McDonalds. All she was asking for was payment of her medical bills. The CORPORATE attorneys representing McDonalds came into court and basically said that the injury was her fault for being OLD!! They put 2 medical experts on the stand who testified that, since she was in her 70s, her skin would not heal like a younger person. The jurors interviewed later said they were outraged and appalled at the arrogance and greed of the McDonalds lawyers. Several said that they had no intention of awarding anything until this tactic was used, and after that they wanted to do whatever they could to punish the company. If you don't have trial lawyers bringing these kind of suits all you're left with in the system are the very rich and powerful lawyers representing the corporations. Not a pleasant thought, is it? Everybody hates lawyers --- until they need one. "Many of our rich men have not been content with equal protection and equal benefits, but have sought to make themselves richer by act of Congress." --President Andrew Jackson "A little revolution, now and then, is a healthy thing. It is as natural as lightning." --President Thomas Jefferson   Top

Yupster (250 posts) Jan-09-03, 09:32 AM (ET) Reply to post #12 26. Next time you see a ridiculous warning in directions like... do not climb this ladder if drunk, that means that some company was sued because a drunk fell off a ladder.   Top

blue_dog (4 posts) Jan-09-03, 09:57 AM (ET) Reply to post #26 29. Excellent! I had not thought of that angle. There sure are alot of stupid warnings out there. But I am glad there are trial lawyers around...never know when you need one. I don't think being a trial lawyer should qualify or disqualify you for office. Ask not...   Top

TeacherCreature (242 posts) Jan-09-03, 09:15 AM (ET) Reply to post #5 25. MILO LAST EDITED ON Jan-09-03 AT 09:21 AM (ET) Unless you are wealthy, trial lawyers like are the only access you have to equality under the law. They are our last defense against becoming Serfs in a fuedal system. What else keeps government and corporate america answerable to the people? Tort Reform? Are you kidding me? If I go to the hospital and they take the wrong leg, you had better bet that I am going to sue them for every last cent I can get, $250,000 is not cutting it in that case. Tort reform is the final attempt by the rich and powerful to make sure the little guy has no recourse in the legal system of the United States Of America. You say you are not for caps, however caps is exactly what you are going to get. Looser pays is also a bad idea. Poor people who avail themselves of the system can not pay for the trial if they do not win. And make no mistake the little guy doesn't always win even when he should. It would be just one more reason for people to give up and accept being screwed by the monied elete.   Top

Enjolras (689 posts) Jan-09-03, 05:05 AM (ET) Reply to post #3 8. Once in a blue moon, even Shrub and Rush get it right I'm sure it's purely coincidental. You know, most of the things about the GOP that we all find repulsive, i.e. self-absorption, greed, total lack of ethics, etc., apply to trial lawyers as well. They have much in common. The only reason the lawyers are mostly Democratic is because Repugs decided to exploit the unpopularity of trial lawyers by openly demonizing them. Yet another example of evil turning in upon itself. Or if you prefer, like scorpions in a jar. What impact do you think ambulance chasers would have on the cause of universal health care? Let's not change the subject, but to me, that's a high priority. And the people bowed and prayed to the neon God they'd made and the sign flashed out its warning in the words that it was forming and the sign said "the words of the prophets are written on the subway wall" -- Simon & Garfunkel, "The Sound of Silence" Those who can, DU. Those who can't, freep. "The difference between Martin Sheen and George W. Bush is that Martin Sheen is actually convincing when he acts like a president." --Paul Begala, CNN Crossfire, 6-05-02   Top

JNelson6563 (716 posts) Jan-09-03, 05:45 AM (ET) Reply to post #8 10. even a broken clock is right twice a day. No doubt a better record than Bushie-boy.   Top

mazzarro (325 posts) Jan-09-03, 06:24 AM (ET) Reply to post #2 13. I do not see much wrong with being a trial lawyer 'cause I am not buying into the repug campaign against trail lawyers except for the lawyers affiliated to the repuglican party. Trial lawyers are essential to the average person in many ways than I care to enumerate. I do not dislike Edwards for being a successful trial lawyer but for being the co-sponsor of the PATRIOT act. For a lawyer of his caliber not to take the caution of reading through such a bill and questioning some of the most troubling aspects that is something I am not ready to forgive him for. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "Liberty without learning is always in peril and learning without liberty is always in vain." -- John F. Kennedy "Liberty cannot be preserved without a general knowledge among the people." -- John Adams "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free ... it expects what never was and never will be." -- Thomas Jefferson "A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves." -- Edward R. Morrow   Top

MiloBloom (205 posts) Jan-09-03, 06:37 AM (ET) Reply to post #13 16. Well, As I mentioned in my initial post, although the fact that he is a trial lawyer causes me to instinctively dislike him... it is his vote record that is actually causing me to choose not to ever vote for him.   Top

wildwww2 (352 posts) Jan-09-03, 08:35 AM (ET) Reply to post #13 19. Wow! Finally a post on this thread that makes some sense. Time to stop judging people by what they are. And judge them by what they do. We would not be dealing with the Smirking Fascist. Were it not for his Army of trial lawyers. (Two of which were Antonin Scalia`s sons.)So the Repukes have no leg to stand on about critisizing trial lawyers. Hell! Their trial lawyers and Conflict of interest judges are the reason the Spoiled Brat is able to lead us into a war with dirt poor brown people. To get their Dictators Oil. Peace Wildman Al Gore is Still My President   Top

Tennessee Gal (191 posts) Jan-09-03, 04:34 AM (ET) 4. Not for the nominee eom   Top

hayu_lol (260 posts) Jan-09-03, 05:24 AM (ET) Reply to post #4 9. A DEFINITE NO TO... geppy, daschle, and lieberman. This is the trifecta of appeasement.   Top

wildmanj (119 posts) Jan-09-03, 05:52 AM (ET) 11. spineless I refuse to vote for any of the democrats who do no display balls--spineless is out spineless is not cool--Mr. Gephardt has spent entirely too much time kissing the ASS OF A BUSH   Top

StlMo (981 posts) Jan-09-03, 11:20 AM (ET) Reply to post #11 58. Check the fucking record! 10 15 2002 WASHINGTON (StlMo) - Today Minority Leader Richard Gephardt attacked Bush for his “abdication of leadership” on the economy. Gephardt pointed out the Bushies are “playing politics with the economy and denying the disastrous consequences of their actions.” Gephardt called for a reversal of economic policy away from tax cuts for the rich. He proposed tax cuts aimed instead at working families and middle class Americans. Gephardt also called for an increased investment in Education and Health Care. Plans include $25 Billion for new school construction and $75 Billion to provide insurance for those who lost jobs to the Bush recession and to increase the federal contribution to Medicare. The Minority Leader demanded a cut of $100 Billion in corporate welfare. He also argued that the minimum wage must be raised to a level people can actually live on. "The fact is America faces a clear and present danger to the economic life of working families," Gephardt said. "But all this president and the Republican House have offered is an extremist ideology of trickle-down economics and ineffective gimmicks." Gephardt was adamant that laws must be passed to make CEO’s responsible for their crimes. He said that current laws were inadequate to protect pension plans, small investors and workers. Gephardt also pledged to oppose Bush’s effort to make tax cuts to the rich permanent. He refused to hand Republicans a campaign issue by explicitly denouncing the tax giveaway, but gave the clear impression that he will work to repeal Bush’s failed plan. Republican pollsters expressed great concern that voter outrage at the state of the economy will cause a disaster for the GOP. Gephardt expressed confidence that Republicans would indeed lose. Sources: http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/national/AP-Democrats-Economy.html http://www.guardian.co.uk/uslatest/story/0,1282,-2092051,00.html http://reuters.com/news_article.jhtml?type=politicsnews&StoryID=1579860 © 2002 StlMo   Top

mazzarro (325 posts) Jan-09-03, 06:27 AM (ET) 14. Gephardt should take a cue from Daschle and go away into LAST EDITED ON Jan-09-03 AT 06:29 AM (ET) a dark hole. We are tired of his antics. He had his opportunities and blew every one of them. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "Liberty without learning is always in peril and learning without liberty is always in vain." -- John F. Kennedy "Liberty cannot be preserved without a general knowledge among the people." -- John Adams "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free ... it expects what never was and never will be." -- Thomas Jefferson "A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves." -- Edward R. Morrow   Top

StlMo (981 posts) Jan-09-03, 11:22 AM (ET) Reply to post #14 59. Simply untrue Gephardt stood up to Shrub (unlike some 'Democrats').   Top

dusty64 (3704 posts) Jan-09-03, 07:52 AM (ET) 18. Not for the nominee. Of course, in the impossible event that he wins it I would be forced to plug my nose hard and vote for him against the chimp.   Top

StlMo (981 posts) Jan-09-03, 11:25 AM (ET) Reply to post #18 60. Impossible?! Rank and File Democrats agree with Gephardt on many, many issues. He has support of Labor and an effective national operation. Not only possible, but also plausible.   Top

deutsey (2659 posts) Jan-09-03, 08:52 AM (ET) 21. No. n/t "Ever get the feeling you’ve been cheated?" Johnny Rotten "I have dedicated my life to the cause of economic justice and equality of opportunity for all Americans" - Senator Paul Wellstone   Top

CMT (1010 posts) Jan-09-03, 09:06 AM (ET) 22. here is a scenerio Gephardt could become a very viable candidate. First he is well known in Iowa--and has won the Iowa Caucuses in the past. He could very well win them this time especially with the organizational support he will get from labor--which truly likes him. Next off to New Hampshire where we will have at least three favorite sons (new england candidates) competing for votes: Dean of Vermont, Kerry of Massachusetts, and Lieberman of Connecticut--enter Gephardt, fresh from an Iowa win and all the press that includes, is it possible that he could do well enough when if the three favorite sons split the Yankee vote? and maybe even win it? possible. Then there is the south--If Graham gets into the race--Edwards will no longer be the only southern candidate. Gephardt can have it both ways coming from Missouri--somepeople see Missouri as a midwestern state and others see it as a southern or at least border state. Could he compete in the southern states especially in the border states of Oklahoma, Tennessee, Kentucky, West Virginia, and Maryland? Finally, of all the announced candidates thus far Geppy is the only one from the midwest (that is if you assume that Missouri is a midwestern state) and that might give Gephardt a upper hand in neighboring Illinois and in other prairie states such as South Dakota--especially if Daschle were to endorse him. I'm not advocating Dick Gephardt, my vote belongs to Howard Dean, but I do take his running very seriously and think it is possible he could get the nomination.   Top

underpants (9193 posts) Jan-09-03, 09:12 AM (ET) 23. He's too milquetoast for my tastes I just don't see him firing up people to vote for him. ________________________________________________________________________________   Top

Carl21014 (73 posts) Jan-09-03, 09:14 AM (ET) 24. I wouldn't.....nm nm   Top

spiritstlou (180 posts) Jan-09-03, 09:33 AM (ET) 27. I Don't Dismiss Him So Easily Gephardt is a friend of the labor unions--an important thing when Bush is busy with steel tariffs and "clean" coal technology in an effort to buy union votes. Now, I don't happen to think that Bush is a real friend of labor interests...and I darned well know that Gephardt is a proven friend. Even if Gephardt does not get the nomination, he is showing labor unions what kind of actions a true friend of labor would support. It will contrast effectively with Bush, who is just pretending to be a friend of labor in order to get votes. For that reason alone, I am glad that Gephardt is running for the Dem nomination. The differences between the two parties toward the labor unions is a long, deep and wide chasm that Bush only pretends to be bridging. Support another candidate...but let Gephardt run as a true friend of the labor unions.   Top

tjdee (2678 posts) Jan-09-03, 10:23 AM (ET) Reply to post #27 31. Labor and the media LURVS him. LAST EDITED ON Jan-09-03 AT 10:24 AM (ET) CNN and FOX have both talked so swimmingly of him, and labor loves him--enough for him to think he's got a shot. And as you said, he has been a labor advocate for many years, which isn't bad. I don't mind him as much as I mind Joe Lieberman and Al Sharpton. ______________________________________ "The problem of power is how to achieve its responsible use rather than its irresponsible and indulgent use - of how to get men of power to live for the public rather than off the public."--RFK   Top

arwalden (5669 posts) Jan-09-03, 09:37 AM (ET) 28. Sorry... Gephardt is lackluster. Yesterday's news. Weak as water. And I am UNANIMOUS in that. -- Allen   Top

StlMo (981 posts) Jan-09-03, 11:28 AM (ET) Reply to post #28 61. Lackluster?! "The fact is America faces a clear and present danger to the economic life of working families," Gephardt said. "But all this president and the Republican House have offered is an extremist ideology of trickle-down economics and ineffective gimmicks."   Top

blue_dog (4 posts) Jan-09-03, 10:14 AM (ET) 30. Same here...no to Dick, Tom, Joe, Kerry, et al. I am new here so I don't know if this name has been floated... How about Bob Graham of Fl.? I think he would draw a ton of votes. Honest face, smart cookie, comes across well on camera, well known in the south anyway, maybe not as good as some, but better than most I should think. Ask not...   Top

Eloriel (4580 posts) Jan-09-03, 10:30 AM (ET) Reply to post #30 32. Yes, he's been mentioned Some people like him; I don't. I don't trust him (and don't think he has an "honest face"). I can't get past the fact that he was completely AWOL during the 2000 post-election period in FL. And his connections to the intelligence community make me very nervous as well. Veep, maybe. Pres., no way. Welcome to DU!! Eloriel Bush is neither a uniter nor a divider. He's a destroyer. "Face it," wrote Garrison Keiller in Time, "a nation that maintains a 72% approval rating on George W. Bush is a nation with a very loose grip on reality."   Top

blue_dog (4 posts) Jan-09-03, 10:49 AM (ET) Reply to post #32 33. I think the fact that... He was not involved in the post 2000 election stuff makes him more viable to most americans. Many of the people I talk to while they felt cheated out of Gore's presidency, were just willing to let it go and get on with life. I think Graham could draw votes away from dubya by the bucket full and while some on the more left end of the scale won't like him, they could hold their nose to get rid of the imposter. Are his ties any different than perhaps JFK's were? I wasn't born then so I really don't know, but everything I've heard suggests that JFK was up to his ears in intelligence related stuff. I think integrity makes the difference. It is not how much you know, it's how well you keep a secret. JMHO Ask not...   Top

newyawker99 (25992 posts) Jan-09-03, 11:05 AM (ET) Reply to post #33 55. Hi blue_dog!! Welcome to DU!! Have you been to the lounge? Come and join the fun!! This is not the life I ordered. The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. Edmund Burke "Don't walk behind me; I may not lead. Don't walk in front of me; I may not follow. Just walk beside me and be my friend." Albert Camus   Top

StlMo (981 posts) Jan-09-03, 11:15 AM (ET) 56. What the Fuck are you talking about? You need the Goddamn Facts! WAKE THE FUCK UP! Don't buy the Media spin. Gephardt is a Liberal/Progressive/Populist He is not a Mother Fucking Bushit Centrist. Gephardt (10 15 2002) "But all this president and the Republican House have offered is an extremist ideology of trickle-down economics and ineffective gimmicks." On Lihop: “What did the President know and when did he know it?” The Record From Vote-Smart.org: Gephardt The ratings are the most current available from each group. Education NEA Rating Gephardt 100% Environment League of Conservation Voters Gephardt 93% Honest Government Common Cause Gephardt A Health American Medical Association Gephardt 100% AIDS Action Council Gephardt 100% Labor Service Employees International Union Gephardt 100% BCTGM Gephardt 100% American Postal Workers Union Gephardt 100% International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Worker Gephardt 88% United Food & Commercial Workers Gephardt 100% United Auto Workers Gephardt 100% American Federation of Government Employees Gephardt 100% International Brotherhood of Boilermakers Gephardt 100% American Federation of Teachers Gephardt 100% American Federation of State, County & Municipal Employees Gephardt 100% AFL-CIO Gephardt 100% Transportation Communications Union Gephardt 100% International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers Gephardt 83% Preserving Social Security and Medicare National Committee to Preserve Social Security and Medicare Gephardt 100% Women American Association of University Women Gephardt 100% National Organization for Women Gephardt 90% Civil Liberties American Civil Liberties Union Gephardt 75% Civil Rights National Association for the Advancement of Colored People Gephardt 86% National Hispanic Leadership Agenda Gephardt 91% Arab American Institute Gephardt 75% Human Rights Campaign Gephardt 100% Liberalism U.S. Public Interest Research Group Gephardt 85% National Committee for an Effective Congress Gephardt 90% Americans for Democratic Action Gephardt 95% Public Citizen's Congress Watch Gephardt 100% Election 2002: The Democrats face an incredibly conservative mainstream media and a gargantuan money gap against the super rich Republicans. VNS data disappears. Unverifiable voting machines give Republicans a narrow victory. Media Whores cover it up. Toughness: Gephardt: On possible LIHOP, “What did the President know and when did he know it?” Bush plan to invade entire Middle East: Gephardt turns a minority position into a bill banning invasion of Iran, Saudi Arabia, Syria, etc. in exchange for a symbolic endorsement of diplomacy backed by force. Will the Bushies torpedo the diplomacy? Of course, but they already had the ability to invade Iraq with the same legality before – (fake self defense a la Gulf of Tonkin). The Republicans gave up real concessions for a symbolic move. Gephardt is a better leader than most people give him credit for. Gephardt would be a great nominee.   Top

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