40||0|0yes
0|0|Congress Works on Election Reform|texasleo||14:59:21|10/22/2001|http%3A%2F%2Fdailynews.yahoo.com%2Fh%2Fap%2F20011022%2Fpl%2Felections_overhaul_1.html%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0AWASHINGTON %28AP%29 - Key players from both political parties are working to develop federal legislation on overhauling election procedures after months of partisan gridlock%2C say those familiar with the negotiations. %0D%0A%0D%0A%60%60I think there will be a serious attempt to pass legislation prior to the end of this congressional session%2C%27%27 said Doug Lewis%2C director of the non-partisan Election Center in Houston. %60%60I was pessimistic over the last six months%2C but now it looks as if folks are ready to talk.%27%27 %0D%0A%0D%0AStaffers for several lawmakers involved in the negotiations%2C including Sens. Chris Dodd%2C D-Conn.%2C and Christopher Bond%2C R-Mo.%2C said both sides are trying to work out differences. %0D%0A%0D%0A%60%60Senator Bond is currently negotiating with Senator Dodd on an election reform bill that had been stalled prior to these negotiations%2C%27%27 said Julie Dammann%2C chief of staff for Bond. %60%60We%27re hopeful we can come to an agreement before the Senate goes out this year.%27%27 %0D%0A%0D%0AMarvin Fast%2C a Dodd spokesman%2C agreed the two senators are working closely in an attempt to move legislation forward. %0D%0A%0D%0AThe Senate%27s Rules and Administration Committee%2C chaired by Dodd%2C approved a measure in August that would have given states %243.5 billion to deal with election problems and set federal standards for counting votes. Republicans didn%27t support it%2C saying it was loaded with too many federal mandates. %0D%0A%0D%0ABond is working with Dodd to strengthen measures to prevent vote fraud%2C while addressing other GOP concerns. %0D%0A%0D%0AReps. Bob Ney%2C R-Ohio%2C and Steny Hoyer%2C D-Md.%2C are trying to iron out differences in a House measure that would provide federal money for poll worker training and help pay for new voting equipment. %0D%0A%0D%0AA new report released Monday notes that numerous efforts to craft solutions to the nation%27s election problems have yielded few results at this point because of sharp partisan differences. %0D%0A%0D%0ASeveral states%2C notably Florida%2C Georgia and Maryland%2C moved this year to upgrade their voting systems statewide%2C while others have taken steps on a smaller scale. %0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A---------more---------------
1|1|Election Reform|PainfulWit||15:38:00|10/22/2001|The best way to reform the election process in the USA is to first make the voting hours unique across the country%2C preventing the results of East Coast states from affecting the voting on the West Coast. We have seen how this might have caused problems both in 2000 and back in 1980.%0D%0A%0D%0AThen we need to ensure that every living American %28and ONLY Americans%29 are able to cast one %28and ONLY one%29 vote in each election. To accomplish this we need to cleanse the voter roles of anyone who has moved out of a voting district%2C anyone who has died%2C anyone who is not a US Citizen%2C anything that is not a human being%2C anyone who is not old enough to vote%2C etc.%0D%0A%0D%0AMotor Voter needs to not only be repealed%2C but to be stomped so deep into the ground that it never re-emerges. %0D%0A%0D%0AAnyone who has not voted in their district over the past X number of elections gets sent a postage padid return post card asking if they still reside at that address. If the post card is not returned%2C they are removed from the voter list.%0D%0A%0D%0AAll new voter registrations must require proof that the %28potential%29 voter is indeed eligible to vote in that district. Specifically proof is needed of%0D%0A%0D%0ACitizenship %28birth certificate or raturalization papers%29%0D%0AIdentity %28photo ID%29%0D%0AAge %28birth certificate%29%0D%0AResidence %28utility or tax bill%29%0D%0A%0D%0AAll voters upon requesting a ballot at the polls must show proof of identity %28photo id%29.%0D%0A%0D%0AWe must resist the cries that actually requiring voters to prove that they are eligible to vote is discrimination. It is just common sense.%0D%0A%0D%0AIf we can accomplish true voter reform as stated above%2C we can take the voter fraud issue which the repugs constantly use against us out of their hands. We might lose a few votes in the short term%2C but will gain far more in the long term.
2|2|Good post|rocknation||15:44:28|10/22/2001|But don%27t forget the biggie%3A expel the electorial college%21 One person%2C one vote%21
21|3|What we need is...|TruthIsAll||19:32:49|10/22/2001|1- Allow a full weekend %2848 hours%29 for voting. No one should lose the opportunity to vote because of a job%2C closing of polls%2C etc.%0D%0A%0D%0A2- A mechanism which allows a voter to check his vote and change it if necessary.%0D%0A%0D%0A3- Do away with the electoral college %28not a chance in Hell this will happen cause it would eliminate fraud all by itself%29.%0D%0A%0D%0A4- Cameras at each voting precinct to record possible intimdation.%0D%0A%0D%0A5- Don%27t allow overvotes %28the Repugs double-punched the black votes to invalidate them...yes IT HAPPENS EVERY TIME. The Repugs whould have you believe that the blacks and jews are stupid... %0D%0A%0D%0A6- No punch cards...only optical scanners or computers .. of course%2C the Repugs will say too expensive%2C but they are a lot cheaper than those archaic machines we still use.%0D%0A%0D%0A
26|4|My Comments in BOLD|PainfulWit||08:57:11|10/23/2001|1- Allow a full weekend %2848 hours%29 for voting. No one should lose the opportunity to vote because of a job%2C closing of polls%2C etc. AGREED - GOOD IDEA%21%0D%0A%0D%0A2- A mechanism which allows a voter to check his vote and change it if necessary. AGREED _ GREAT IDEA%21%0D%0A%0D%0A3- Do away with the electoral college %28not a chance in Hell this will happen cause it would eliminate fraud all by itself%29. DISAGREE - THIS WILL HAVE NO AFFECT AT ALL ON VOTER FRAUD. PLUS THE SMALL STATES WILL BE THE ONES TO BLOCK THIS TO PROTECT THEMSELVES.%0D%0A%0D%0A4- Cameras at each voting precinct to record possible intimdation. DISAGREED - MINORITIES WHO COMPLAIN THAT REQUIRING PHOTO ID DISCOURAGES THEM FROM VOTING WILL COMPLAIN EVEN MORE ABOUT BEING VIDEOTAPED WHEN THEY VOTE.%0D%0A%0D%0A5- Don%27t allow overvotes %28the Repugs double-punched the black votes to invalidate them...yes IT HAPPENS EVERY TIME. The Repugs whould have you believe that the blacks and jews are stupid...%29 THIS ONE IS RIDICULOUS. HOW DO YOU PREVENT A VOTER FROM ACCIDENTLY OR INTENTIONALLY OVERVOTING. YOU CAN KICK OUT OVERVOTED BALLOTS TO GIVE THE VOTER ANOTHER CHANCE%2C BUT MANY VOTERS CHOOSE TO EXPRESS THEIR DISSATISFACTION WITH THE CANDIDTES BY VOTING FOR ALL OF THEM OR NONE OF THEM.%0D%0A%0D%0A6- No punch cards...only optical scanners or computers .. of course%2C the Repugs will say too expensive%2C but they are a lot cheaper than those archaic machines we still use. COMPUTERS ARE EASILY MANIPULATED AND THEY DO NOT SAVE A PHYSICAL RECORD OF EACH PERSONS VOTE. AS A COMPUTER PROGRAMMER I WOULD BE VERY WARY OF COMPUTER VOTING. OF THE THREE METHODS I WOULD GO WITH OPTICAL SCANNERS.
33|5|This is why the Electoral College is the source of all fraud..|TruthIsAll||09:42:50|10/23/2001|[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON Oct-23-01 AT 09:47 AM (ET)[/font][p]PainfulWit%0D%0AIn response to your comments%0D%0A%0D%0AELECTORAL COLLEGE%0D%0AYou cannot target localities in close states to commit fraud%2C as the Repugs did in Florida where they knew the vote would be close.%0D%0A%0D%0ARemember%2C Gore won by 540%2C000... how would the Repugs know where to get these votes..they would have not been able to manipulate the result because they wouldn%27t know where to start- they would have had too big a margin to overcome nationwide. They could never pull it off as they did in heavy black precincts%2C like those inDuval and Escambria counties in Florida.%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0AOVERVOTES%0D%0AWe should not allow overvotes...if a voter wants to protest%2C let him just NOT VOTE. The goal is to eliminate fraud..overvotes are the chief weapon used by the Repugs to invalidate highly democratic precincts. If you don%27t agree with this%2C you have not done your homework on the history of voter fraud%2C especially in Florida %28it happened in the 1988 senate election%2C where the dem candidate lost just like Gore did%2C through massive fraud%29%21 %0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0ACOMPUTERS%0D%0AI agree that there is potential for fraud here %28 I am a programmer also %28over 20 years%2C with 3 degrees in math%29%2C but ONLY if the programs are written by Repug-paid hacks. If there was national%2C federally funded%2CBI-PARTISAN code development of the system%2C we would have virtually zero potential for fraud. %0D%0A%0D%0AVIDEO CAMERAS%0D%0ACome on%2C the blacks and hispanics would be happy to know that the FED%2C NOT the STATE%2C is watching over their right to vote without intimidation.
40|5|I agree about computerized voting.|Why||14:30:29|10/23/2001|Anything digital can be manipulated with impugnity.  You must have a paper trail.  I would%2C however%2C be in favor of a computerized system that generates paper cards that would then be deposited in the boxes.  %0D%0A%0D%0AFor instance%2C it would be fairly easy to write a JavaScript program that generated HTML forms with radio buttons that would be clicked to register votes.  These could be changed as often as necessary prior to the submit button being pressed.  The printer would then print out the actual ballot which would then be deposited in the slot on the way out.  Overvotes%2C due to the design of the software%2C would be impossible.  The use of one-time use passwords%2C distributed by the poll workers%2C would prevent fraud.  Optical scanners would read the printed %28not pencil-marked%29 cards and tally the votes.%0D%0A%0D%0AThe simplicity of this sort of software means extremely low system requirements%2C thus a 486 machine running Windows 3.1 and Netscape 2.0 would be sufficient.  The program itself could reside at some central location such as the state capital%2C so as long as the Internet still operates%2C the system works.  That would take a lot of the cost out of the problem.%0D%0A%0D%0A%5Bfont color%3D%22%23333333%22 size%3D%221%22 face%3D%22Verdana%22%5D%5Bfont size%3D%274%27%5D%5Bcenter%5D%3Aevilgrin%3A http%3A%2F%2Fwww.way2muchsense.com %3Aevilgrin%3A%5B%2Fcenter%5D%5B%2Ffont%5D %5B%2Ffont%5D
32|4|Yes truthisall|indigo11153||09:32:06|10/23/2001|You have got it right.
36|5|%22Just enough to win....%22|TruthIsAll||10:15:32|10/23/2001|[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON Oct-23-01 AT 10:19 AM (ET)[/font][p]The Repug fraud in Florida %28and elsewhere%29 reminds me of the famous true story of a certain well- hung comedian.%0D%0A%0D%0AThe comedian was challenged by a drunk who claimed to have a bigger c%2A%2Ak than him%2C and wanted to prove it by both dropping their pants. The comic and his buddy tried to shoo the drunk away but they couldn%27t.%0D%0A%0D%0AFinally%2C the comic%27s buddy said to him%3A %22OK%2C why don%27t you just take out just enough to win%22.%0D%0A%0D%0AIt was like this in Florida. The Repugs needed to cheat just enough to win. Whenever%2C Gore picked up votes on a recount %28and closed the gap from 1700 to 100%29%2C mysteriously new votes appeared out of the blue for Bush so that he had just enough to win. %0D%0A%0D%0ATHIS COULD NEVER HAPPEN IF THERE WAS NO ELECTORAL COLLEGE%21%0D%0AWHEN WILL WE HAVE DEMOCRATIC ELECTIONS IN THIS COUNTRY%21
35|4|As painful as this is to admit%2C|StopThief||09:59:34|10/23/2001|the counties with the highest numbers of invalidated votes had election officials that were democrats.  I doubt that they would have allowed republicans near the ballots to deface them. IMHO
22|3|Indeed%21|FlyByNight||20:37:10|10/22/2001|The Electoral College is the big reform which is why no one will touch it. Wouldn%27t want to have democracy get in the way of elections%2C would we%3F  x%28
27|4|The United States is not a Democracy%2C|PainfulWit||08:59:50|10/23/2001|it is a Republic - just the way the founding fathers intended it to be. The Congres was divided into the House and Senate for a specific reason - to protect the smaller states against the %28potential%29 tyranny of the larger states.%0D%0A%0D%0AIt won%27t happen because all the small states%2C even those that are overwhelmingly Democrat like Rhode Island and Delaware%2C will not support it.
34|5|Always the same stench when dealing with a Freeper|tom_paine||09:45:25|10/23/2001|%28I%27ll need a shower after this%29%0D%0A%0D%0ALet me try to explain it to you%2C slowly%2C so that even you can understand it%2C you creepy little Nazi %28oh%2C that you were in range of my fists...%29%3A%0D%0A%0D%0AYes%2C when the Constitution was drafted originally%2C we were a Republic%2C though%2C strangely enough%2C our Founding Fathers often used the word democracy in their writings of that period.%0D%0A%0D%0A%28I know as a Freeper you haven%27t read much not approved by your Party...try it...reading Jefferson in his own words won%27t hurt you%2C though it may make you loathe him for his %22liberal%22 %22socialist%22 views.%29%0D%0A%0D%0A%22Faction will be the saviour of democracy.%22 --James Madison%0D%0A%0D%0ANow why would he say that%2C Freeper dumbass%3F  Now%2C scream some Rush lies very loud so they echo off the walls and into your pea-brain.%0D%0A%0D%0AReady to read some more%3F%0D%0A%0D%0AOk%2C I know it%27s hard but try and follow this%3A%0D%0A%0D%0AIn the 1820s%2C Congress and Andrew Jackson extended the franchise to all white men%2C not just landowners.  It was at this time %28are you following me%2C YourWitIsIndeedPainfulandSlow%3F%29 that the old United States went from a republic to a representative democracy or a democratic-republic.  I know you%27re not very bright%2C PW%2C your posts reek of your weak intellect %28sweaty Texas insurance salesman with a 10th grade edumacation%3F%29%2C and I know how you Freepers love living in the past%2C but%0D%0A%0D%0ACould you please join the rest of us in the 1820s%2C dumbass.  1790 was 30 years ago%21%0D%0A%0D%0AGod%2C the collective stupidity of the repetitious%2C mentally-challeneged Freepers is certainly enough to sustain widespread Naziism in this country.%0D%0A%0D%0AHey PW%2C can you say anything that isn%27t a KKK tagline in use for years by millions of people%3F  Can you formulate an original thought%3F  My guess is no%2C but I%27d love to see you try%21%0D%0A%0D%0ANow that I%27ve tried to teach a Feeper some history%2C I%27m going to take up an easier calling%3A%0D%0A%0D%0AI%27m going to teach pigs to juggle %28hmmm%2C maybe there are some similarities between these pursuits%2C after all%29.%0D%0A%0D%0A%5Bfont color%3D%22%23333333%22 size%3D%221%22 face%3D%22Verdana%22%5D%3D%3D%3D%3D%3D%3D%3D%3D%3D%3D%3D%3D%3D%3D%3D%3D%3D%3D%3D%3D%3D%3D%3D%3D%3D%3D%3D%3D%3D%3D%3D%3D%3D%3D%3D%3D%3D%0D%0A%0D%0A%93As nightfall does not come at once%2C neither does oppression.  In both instances%2C there%27s a twilight where everything remains seemingly unchanged%2C and it is in such twilight that we must be aware of change in the air%2C however slight%2C lest we become unwitting victims of the darkness%94%0D%0A--Supreme Court Justice William O. Douglas %0D%0A%0D%0A%22As Mankind becomes more liberal%2C they will be more apt to allow that all those who conduct themselves as worthy members of the community are equally entitled to the protections of civil government. I hope ever to see America among the foremost nations of justice and liberality.%22%0D%0A--George Washington %0D%0A%0D%0A%22Some think war is all glory%2C but%2C boys%2C it is all hell.%22 %0D%0A--General William Tecumseh Sherman %0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A%5B%2Ffont%5D
31|3|You have got to be kidding|indigo11153||09:28:58|10/23/2001|[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON Oct-23-01 AT 09:29 AM (ET)[/font][p]We don%27t need to make voting harder%21 we just need to count the votes%21 One thing I think would be great is having a voting holiday. Then we all have time to vote and get it right%21
3|2|Smells like Freeper%2C but I%27ll give the benefit of the doubt|tom_paine||15:57:51|10/22/2001|Yes%2C requiring people to prove they have a right to voteis good.%0D%0A%0D%0AHow to guard against the voluminous corruption shown to be at the heart of Republican Party sympathetic county voting officials%3F%0D%0A%0D%0AWhite guy%3A  %22one form of ID%2C please%3F  Non-photo%2C ok%21%22%0D%0A%0D%0A%28I%27m a white guy who voted without showing ANY ID--not that it counted or anything%29%0D%0A%0D%0ABlack or Hispanic guy%3A  %22Three forms of photo ID.  Whgat%2C you don%27t have them%3F To the back of the bus you go%21  Hey Earl%2C will ya%27 call the state voting office%27s line which doesn%27t pick up%3F  Thanks.%22%0D%0A%0D%0ANobody is crying that it%27s terrible to request a photo ID in order to be able to vote %28another one of your %22points%22 which reeks with Freeper-stench%29%2C they are crying about the unequal application of the law%2C which lies at the heart of Republican%2FConfederate broderbund aristocracy.%0D%0A%0D%0AHow about clamping on the staggering absentee ballot fraud which Freeped the election%3F  People voting in their home states and then voting in Florida%2C Tennessee%2C or any other of the battleground states%3F  People stealing their roommates%27 absentee ballots and casting them %28for Bush%29---this happened%2C but since it was a Republican who did it there was no media coverage nor prosecution.%0D%0A%0D%0AI am interested%2C PainfulWit %28are you a Freeper%3F we%27ll see%29  I noticed you omitted the absentee ballot scam of 2000.  Perhaps you cast your own Florida absentee ballot in addition to your home-state vote%3F%0D%0A%0D%0AWhat would you do to fix rampant absentee ballot corruption %28other than by cancelling elections so Smirky can be dictator-for-life%29%3F%0D%0A%0D%0A%5Bfont color%3D%22%23333333%22 size%3D%221%22 face%3D%22Verdana%22%5D%3D%3D%3D%3D%3D%3D%3D%3D%3D%3D%3D%3D%3D%3D%3D%3D%3D%3D%3D%3D%3D%3D%3D%3D%3D%3D%3D%3D%3D%3D%3D%3D%3D%3D%3D%3D%3D%0D%0A%0D%0A%93As nightfall does not come at once%2C neither does oppression.  In both instances%2C there%27s a twilight where everything remains seemingly unchanged%2C and it is in such twilight that we must be aware of change in the air%2C however slight%2C lest we become unwitting victims of the darkness%94%0D%0A--Supreme Court Justice William O. Douglas %0D%0A%0D%0A%22As Mankind becomes more liberal%2C they will be more apt to allow that all those who conduct themselves as worthy members of the community are equally entitled to the protections of civil government. I hope ever to see America among the foremost nations of justice and liberality.%22%0D%0A--George Washington %0D%0A%0D%0A%22Some think war is all glory%2C but%2C boys%2C it is all hell.%22 %0D%0A--General William Tecumseh Sherman %0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A%5B%2Ffont%5D
4|3|I thought the same when he slammed into motor-voter..|absynthe||16:02:17|10/22/2001|%0D%0A%0D%0A%5Bfont color%3D%22%23333333%22 size%3D%221%22 face%3D%22Verdana%22%5D%22The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic State itself. That%2C in its essence%2C is Fascism %97 ownership of government by an individual%2C by a group or by any controlling private power.%22%0D%0A-FDR %0D%0A%0D%0A%5B%2Ffont%5D
6|4|likewise|texasleo||16:08:30|10/22/2001|caution flag erected %28 no pun%29 when the motorvoter came up........%0D%0A%0D%0Afreeping a-hole%21
9|5|Leo%2C|PainfulWit||16:56:44|10/22/2001|Instead of calling names%2C why don%27t you list all the pros and cons of motor voter and try to make your point that motor voter is a good law.%0D%0A%0D%0AThat%27s what an intelligent freeper or DU%27er would instead of just resorting to vulgraity.%0D%0A%0D%0AHere%27s my list%3A%0D%0A%0D%0APros of Motor Voter%3A%0D%0AMore convenient to register to vote when you move.%0D%0AIncrease number of eligible voters registered.%0D%0A%0D%0ACons of Motor Voter%3A%0D%0APuts voting registration in the hands of non-election officials who are already overworked%2C thus increasing frequency of mistakes.%0D%0AAllows ineligible voters to register to vote.%0D%0A%0D%0A
8|4|Motor Voter|PainfulWit||16:52:35|10/22/2001|Is where you put over-worked registry of motor vehicles employees in charge of voter registration. My experiences with the motor vehicles offices in Massachusetts%2C Louisiana%2C and New Hampshire are that there are far more customers than the workers can handle. Perhaps we should fix the motor vehicles departments first so that they can do their main job correctly first%2C and then%2C only then%2C consider adding extra duties like voter registration.%0D%0A%0D%0AUntil then voter registration belongs in the hands of voting officials.
7|3|Absentee Ballots|PainfulWit||16:48:58|10/22/2001|Good Idea about absentee ballot fraud too. I had thought of that%2C but neglected to put it on the list. We need to find some way to dramatically reduce the use of absentee ballots. Right now I know some people who use them just so they don%27t have to go to the polls on election day.%0D%0A%0D%0APerhaps the only reason to issue absentee ballots would be if the voter was going to be out of town on election day%2C though we%3Bd have to require proof of this %28airline tickets.%29%0D%0A%0D%0AI don%27t share your view that absentee ballot fraud is strictly a Repug tactic. If we could actually count every fraudalent absentee ballot in the 2000 Presidential Election we would probably find it pretty well split between Repugs and Dems.%0D%0A%0D%0AYour comments about the unequal application of requiring ID are valid%2C but are actually pretty irrelevent to the law of voting reform. Just because a law might be misapplied does not make the law bad or invalid. We need laws and we need them to be applied the same to everyone.%0D%0A%0D%0AOur governor here in NH recently vetoed a law that would have required ID when voting saying something to the effect that it would discriminate against minorities. She was absolutely 100%25 wrong - the law would not discriminate against anyone - it would take a person to discriminate.%0D%0A%0D%0AAs to your question weather I am a freeper%2C the answer is yes. I am also a DU%27er. I have been a lurker on both boards for almost a year and enjoy reading both sides of the story - especially from the freepers and DU%27ers who are on the outer fringes of their party.%0D%0A%0D%0AI am sure your question regrading my freeper-ness is actually trying to paint me as a right wing nut so that you can try to discredit my whole post. In answer to that unasked %28but implied%29 question...%0D%0A%0D%0AI consider myself to be a Kennedy Democrat - a JFKennedy Democrat not a Ted Kennedy Democrat%21 When choosing a candidate%2C especially for National Office I compare them to JFK and generally vote for the candidate that is closer to JFK. In the 70s this meant I voted for 75%25 Dems and 25%25 Repugs%2C in the 80s it was closer to 50-50%2C and now its probably a little more like 40%25 Dems and 60%25 Repugs. This sometimes leaves a sour taste in my mouth%2C but not as sour as voting for someone who JFK would have laughed at if told they were a Democrat. I long for the days when the majority of politicians were not at either extreme%2C but rather represented the majority of Americans instead of representing the left wing nuts and the right wing nuts.%0D%0A
10|4|Those crazy extreme democrats...|absynthe||17:03:15|10/22/2001|What the hell did they try and get through that was crazy%3F  The last time we had anything even remotely liberal to put in place for policy was Universal Health Care.  I%27m sure you are of the opinion that was absolutely Stalinist nutty even though it works just fine in every other civilized country.%0D%0AWhen did the elected democrats do anything other than try desperately to hang on and %22negotiate%22 with their rabid GOP counterparts.  If I%27m sick of the Democrats for anything it is their incredible lack of spine. %0D%0AWhat Republican reminds you of JFK%3F  I%27m taking it that you were a Bush backer...  I am trying my ass off to make comparisons to him and JFK...%0D%0A%0D%0A%5Bfont color%3D%22%23333333%22 size%3D%221%22 face%3D%22Verdana%22%5D%22The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic State itself. That%2C in its essence%2C is Fascism %97 ownership of government by an individual%2C by a group or by any controlling private power.%22%0D%0A-FDR %0D%0A%0D%0A%5B%2Ffont%5D
11|5|Points of comparison|PainfulWit||17:20:22|10/22/2001|[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON Oct-22-01 AT 05:20 PM (ET)[/font][p]Try economic policy and tax issues for one.%0D%0A%0D%0ATry personal responibility for another.%0D%0A%0D%0ABTW%3A The fact that I voted for Bush over Gore does not mean that I thought Bush was the best for the job. He was %28is%29 the best for the job between Bush and Gore%29%2C but there were %28are%29 quite a few Dems and Repugs that I would have voted for over Bush and Gore.%0D%0A%0D%0AThe Dems and Repugs gave us a lousy choice of candidates in the 2000 election. My vote could have gone either way had the parties put up better candidates.%0D%0A%0D%0AMy vote in 2004 will depend upond weather the Dems come up with a candidate better than Gore.%0D%0A%0D%0AP.S. If you think universal Health Care works fine in other countries move to Canada and try to get a minor knee operation that isn%27t needed to keep you walking%2C but is needed if you wish to be able to jog a few miles again. you will find that the operation will cost a lot less than in the USA%2C but you might have to wait months and months and months. My wife%27s cousin in Toronto finally came down here and paid %244%2C000 for just such an operation after waiting over 3 months trying to get it scheduled in Canada wher it would have cost less than %242%2C000 when it finally would have been done.%0D%0A%0D%0A
13|6|If you voted|haymaker||17:35:37|10/22/2001|for Spurrious George you are a dolt%2C just like him.  %0D%0A%0D%0AThose of us that voted differently have people like you to thank for our current situation.%0D%0A%0D%0AThanks.  Make sure you vote for that phony next time too.  And after that%2C his corrupt little brother Jeb.  It will probably take you that long to figure out that you have been duped.  %0D%0A%0D%0AFool.
14|7|More name calling|PainfulWit||18:56:05|10/22/2001|But no rebuttal on facts%21%0D%0A%0D%0AWhat is this place Free Republic %3F%21%3F%21%3F
15|8|motor voter|texasleo||19:04:20|10/22/2001|Is helpful for people who do not know the process of registering to vote.%0D%0A1. new citizens%0D%0A2. young voters%0D%0A3. young new citizens%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0AIf the system seems untrustworthy%2C it is the fault of LOCAL officials who don%27t have a sytem in place to prevent abuse.
17|9|True|PainfulWit||19:11:21|10/22/2001|But is the Registry of Motor Vehicles the best place for this%3F%0D%0A%0D%0AI think not. For new citizens and new young citizens%2C this information should be a part of the citizenship process.%0D%0A%0D%0AFor new young voters%2C I would think that special voter registration days at schools manned by election officials would be far more helpful.
18|10|most people are out of school by 18|texasleo||19:18:00|10/22/2001|voting should not be a pre-req to becoming a citizen.%0D%0A%0D%0AMaybe a literacy requirement would be acceptable to you%3F%0D%0A%0D%0AEnglish only%3F%0D%0A%0D%0AIf Bush could read%2C he would probably not start with English--too complicated.
28|11|Perhaps you should read my post and understand it|PainfulWit||09:07:03|10/23/2001|before you comment.%0D%0A%0D%0AI never said voting should be a requirement to become a citizen. I said that learning about the voting and registration process should be a part of the preparation for citizanship.%0D%0A%0D%0AI am not sure I agree that most people are out of school by the time they are 18. Most people graduate high school at 18. Voting registration can be done %28and is in some cases%29 for seniors in high school. We could allow new voters to sign up while still 17 and in high school with the registration actually taking effect upon their 18th birthday.%0D%0A%0D%0ANot sure what to do about high school dropouts%2C but still don%27t think the Registry of Motor vehicles personel are the best for the job.%0D%0A%0D%0AA literacy requirement is a definite non-go with me. I am sorry that you feel you have to paint me a racist to discredit my arguements since your logic does not succeeed.%0D%0A%0D%0AI won%27t comment on your Bush comment. it is not relevent to the topic being discussed.
39|9|To be honest%2C I just re-registered...|Kurukami||14:28:10|10/23/2001|... after coming back from college.  I found the standardized voter registration to be surprisingly easy.  I honestly don%27t see why a %22simpler way to register%22 would be needed%2C short of laziness on the part of would-be voters.  %22Oh%2C I can%27t be bothered to drive down to city hall or get voter registration papers online...%22%0D%0A%0D%0AFeh.
25|8|What is this place freerepublic%3F|haymaker||21:48:31|10/22/2001|Good one%21%0D%0A%0D%0APlease give me some facts about motor voter abuses.  %0D%0A%0D%0AAnd did you get automatically registered to vote when you got a new driver%27s license in those various states that you moved to%3F%0D%0A%0D%0AI did not in California.%0D%0A%0D%0AHow about turning things around and using driver%27s license holders as the database for jury duty%2C instead of voter registration roles.  I%27m sure that people would rather not lose their license for not appearing for jury duty%2C but on the other hand%2C would easily keep themselves off the voter roles in order to avoid being tapped for jury duty.  Sad but true.%0D%0A%0D%0AThis motor voter rallying cry is just a lame attempt to try to draw attention away from a well orchestrated theft of the last election in Florida.  A first year prosecutor could build an indestructable case of vote fraud in Florida.%0D%0A%0D%0AJeb %22I will deliver Florida%22 Bush%2C Katherine %22Firewall%22 Harris%2C Jim %22Constitutional Crisis%22 Baker%2C and a whole host of others are conspirators in the biggest crime against our nation in its history.
29|9|The most basic problem with motor voter|PainfulWit||09:12:26|10/23/2001|is the ballooning of voter registration roles so that many precincts have more registered voters than the total number of residents in the precinct.%0D%0A%0D%0AAnother is that in many places you do not have to proove citizenship to get a license%2C thus non-citizens can get registered to vote.%0D%0A%0D%0AAnother problem is that many legitimate voters who register under motor voter do not actually get regstered as there have been numerous cases where the motor voter registrations never made it the voting boards.%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0ANo I did not automatically get registered to vote when I moved to Louisiana. When I moved to NH I registered to vote before I got my license%2C so it was not a factor.%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0AYour idea about using driver%27s license records for jury duty is a good one. We%27d just have to weed out the non-citizens with driver%27s licenses.
5|1|Uniform Poll Closing Time|JoeBacon||16:06:32|10/22/2001|I know how futile it feels to vote in California after the election has been called.%0D%0A%0D%0AI%27ve repeatedly sent this idea to Senators Feinstein and Boxer%3A%0D%0A%0D%0AChange the end of Daylight Savings time in Pacific and Alaska%2FHawaii time zones until the second Sunday in November. The rest of the country goes back to Standard Time the last Sunday in October%3B%0D%0A%0D%0AOpen the polls in the Pacific and Alaska%2FHawaii zones Monday noon%3B%0D%0A%0D%0AClose ALL POLLS at the same time 9 PM Eastern Standard Time%2C%0D%0A8 PM Central Standard Time%2C 7 PM Mountain Standard Time%2C and 7 PM Pacific Daylight Saving Time%2C 6 PM Alaska%2FHawaii Daylight Saving Time.%0D%0A%0D%0AIf all the polls closed at the same time%2C EVERYONE%27S VOTE WOULD REALLY COUNT%21
12|1|Sorry%2C but this means NOTHING.......|reprobate||17:28:45|10/22/2001|%0D%0AWithout CAMPAIGN FINANCE REFORM.%0D%0A%0D%0AAnd the repugs are NOT going to pass that.  You can take that to the bank%2C if you still have a job under a repug admin.
16|2|Ideas On Campaign Finance Reform|PainfulWit||19:05:38|10/22/2001|Got any%3F What are they%3F%0D%0A%0D%0AI don%27t think either party really wants fair campaign finance reform. Each wants a form of CFR that handcuffs the other sides ability to raise funds.%0D%0A%0D%0ASo I think CFR has to be either an all or nothing proposition. Either strict and uniform limits on every candidate or no limits at all.%0D%0A%0D%0AOne wrench in the works would be the media since they can tilt their coverage to benefit the candidate of their choice. For instance Manchester%2C NH newspaper is possibly the most right-wing newspaper in the country%2C while the Nashua%2C NH newspaper is so far to the left that it makes the NY Times look moderate.%0D%0A
19|3|ny times on the left%3F|texasleo||19:21:21|10/22/2001|didn%27t they spend 9 years attacking President Clinton....%0D%0A%0D%0AOr are you talking about the editorial board that just whines about clean water and cancer-free kids....real commies.%0D%0A%0D%0ACFR%0D%0A%0D%0ANo more corporate money.  Period.%0D%0ANo personal %28individual%29 donations.  period.%0D%0AAll federally -funded.  Period.%0D%0A
20|3|Motor Voter This...|RoscoeNOBUSH||19:31:07|10/22/2001|Following an exhaustive%2C six-month investigation the New York Times has discovered mounds of evidence of unequal treatment of overseas ballots in Florida on behalf of the Republican candidate George Bush. Its report provides additional evidence to demonstrate what almost all of us know but precious few are willing to admit%3A the process that determined the outcome of the 2000 election was fundamentally corrupt. Republicans dominated the public relations battle%2C the behind-the-scenes political struggle%2C and ultimately the fateful Supreme Court decision that handed them their tarnished victory. The Times has uncovered yet another example of the Bush team%92s efforts to undermine the integrity of the Florida count%2C as they fought%2C successfully in many instances to include illegal military ballots for their man on the one hand and to exclude fully legal Gore ballots on the other%2C making precisely contradictory accusations in each case.%0D%0A       %0D%0ANow throw in the fact that Katherine Harris chose to arbitrarily exclude 215 votes from Palm Beach County because they arrived two hours late. Add to these factors the deliberate theft of many of Gore%27s legitimate overseas votes and the illegal inclusion of hundreds of Republican votes and%2C once again%2C it becomes harder and harder to conclude that the right man is sitting in the Oval Office%2C no matter what standard one chooses. The great victory of the Republicans during this entire process was to mask the fact that they were seeking to undermine it behind the scenes and to convince a supine media to play along. Over and over we heard that the votes had been counted and recounted and Bush had won every time. Few reporters were interested or able to penetrate into this fog of misleading rhetoric to determine just how this counting and recounting was taking place.%0D%0A %0D%0AFor all of her vows of alleged impartiality%2C Florida Secretary of State Katherine Harris%2C who repeatedly attempted to certify the election for the man whose campaign she co-chaired%2C actually allowed the Republican operatives to set up a %22war room%22 in her office%21 They drafted her statements and directed her strategy while she played quietly along. Jeb Bush made dozens of phone calls to the RNC and the White House during the process to be kept up to speed on %22strategy%22 in spite of his claims of %22recusement%22 from the process %28don%27t think for a second that anyone buys her bullshit about not having a clue who made all those phone calls from your office to various members of the Bush campaign during the recount%29.%0D%0A%0D%0A%5Bb%5DIn Washington%2C Republicans on the House Armed Services Committee helped the campaign obtain private contact information for military voters%2C violating the tradition of impartiality of the military and directly involving Congress in a partisan hunt for pro-Bush votes. The Supreme Court%2C in ruling on the necessity of %22equal protection%22 for all voters%2C deliberately ignored the fact that this standard was wholly ignored by those canvassing boards that the Republicans convinced to include illegal overseas ballots in favor of Bush%2C while excluding many legally cast votes in favor of Gore. The very basis of the decision that gave the election to Bush%2C in other words%2C was a sham.%5B%2Fb%5D%0D%0A%0D%0A%5Bb%5D%5Bi%5DBecause election officials in Florida were so unprepared for so close a vote%2C we will never know who would have won the fair and legally mandated recount that the conservative Republican majority on the Supreme Court stepped in to prevent%2C lest their man end up on the losing end. The Bush forces were unwilling to allow an honest accounting to take place. They outmaneuvered the Gore lawyers and strategists at virtually every step in the process%2C and even managed to convince Sunday talk show hosts to confuse Joe Lieberman sufficiently to the point where he ended up endorsing the Republican strategy at a crucial moment in the public relations battle.%5B%2Fi%5D%5B%2Fb%5D%0D%0A%0D%0AAl Gore won national vote by a considerable margin%2C more than either Kennedy in 1960 or Nixon in 1968. That he won the votes of Floridians using the %22voter%92s intent%22 standard outlined in that state%92s election laws is also indisputable. %28Republican lawyers fought against the use of this standard in most cases%2C except in those that would have disqualified overseas military ballots in favor of their candidate%2C in which case they fought just as vociferously to employ it.%29 Illegally excluded %22overvotes%22 also would likely have given Gore a substantial margin of victory.%0D%0A%0D%0AIn an extraordinary get-out-the-vote effort that helped put George W. Bush in the White House%2C Florida%27s Republican Party mounted an aggressive appeal to party faithful--complete with a letter from Gov. Jeb Bush--to cast absentee ballots before the Nov. 7 election. %22Vote from the comfort of your home%2C%22 Jeb Bush urged in the letter%2C which was superimposed over what appeared to be an image of the state seal.%0D%0A%0D%0AAnd vote they did. A survey of Florida%27s 67 counties shows that more than 700%2C000 Florida voters--or almost 1 in 8--voted absentee. George W. Bush%2C the governor%27s brother%2C captured about 125%2C000 more absentee votes than his Democratic rival%2C Al Gore. That margin dwarfs Bush%27s official 537-vote edge in the Sunshine State. And Florida in turn put Bush over the top in the electoral college. David Leahy%2C the county election supervisor%2C said he had no doubt that Jeb Bush%27s letter--and the accompanying ballot application--drove the high GOP absentee turnout.%0D%0A%0D%0AThe gigantic but largely invisible absentee ballot blitz was the GOP%27s secret weapon in the Florida campaign. But it was almost entirely overlooked during the suspenseful five-week recount of the Florida vote last fall%2C when the presidency hung in the balance. Republicans took unfair advantage of both the governor%27s office and the absentee voting process.%0D%0A%0D%0AUnder Florida law%2C voters could cast absentee ballots only if they were unable to go to their regular polling places on election day. But Jeb Bush%27s letter didn%27t say that %28although the absentee ballot application that came with it did%29. Many voters appear to have cast their ballots absentee merely as a matter of convenience%2C as Bush%27s letter suggested.%0D%0AMoreover%2C Florida law forbids using the state seal for partisan purposes.%0D%0A%0D%0ATwo civil suits were filed challenging the Republican absentee voter drive. Both were dismissed%2C and one of the judges suggested that criminal prosecutions might have been more appropriate. NOTE THAT REPUBLICAN Local prosecutors took no such action. %22That violation can be prosecuted by the proper public officials of this state%2C%22 the judge ruled. %22And if there was any violation of the law for misstating the Florida law regarding absentee voting%2C that violation can also be prosecuted by public officials.%22%0D%0A%0D%0ABut in Florida%2C absentee voting may never have been more common. While 1 voter in 8 voted absentee last year%2C only 1 in 11 did in 1996. The 700%2C000-plus absentee ballots cast in Florida last year exceeded the total in the 1996 presidential race by nearly 50%25. Of the additional 690%2C000 votes cast in Florida in 2000 over 1996%2C absentee ballots accounted for one-third. In virtually every county%2C Bush ran far stronger among the absentees than among those who turned out at the polls on election day.%0D%0A%0D%0AFlorida%27s GOP spent %24500%2C000 producing the letter and mass-mailing it to Republican voters. The envelopes urged voters to %22Please open immediately. . . . Important message from Governor Jeb Bush enclosed.%22 Next to that was the headline%2C %22Vote by Mail%22%3B next to that%2C a picture of a mailbox. The letter%2C over Jeb Bush%27s signature%2C was titled%3A %22From the Desk of Governor Jeb Bush%3B Vote From the Comfort of Your Home.%22 The letter was superimposed over what appears to be the state imprimatur%2C the Great Seal of the State of Florida.%0D%0A%0D%0A%22Dear Fellow Republican%2C%22 the letter began. %22It has been an exciting year in the state of Florida.%22 The letter noted GOP efforts to reduce taxes and at the same time improve education%2C health care and the environment. %22You may vote early by requesting a mail-in ballot by using the request card attached%2C%22 the letter said. The card said the undersigned would not be able to go to the polls on election day.%0D%0A%0D%0A%22Simply sign the card%2C provide the last four digits of your Social Security number%2C as required by law%2C and mail it in today%2C%22 the letter instructed. %22Within a few weeks you will receive your ballot material. You may then vote from the comfort of your own home.%22 The cards were addressed to the GOP Ballot Assistance Committee%2C which saw to it that the voters were given absentee ballots. For voters who did not mail in their absentee ballots%2C Republican operatives arranged rides to polling places in the days before the election.%0D%0A%0D%0AThanks to the overall absentee vote%2C Bush already led Gore in Florida by 125%2C000 votes when election day dawned. Gore was the choice of voters on Nov. 7--but%2C according to the official certified results%2C by 537 fewer votes than Bush%27s margin among absentee voters.%0D%0A       %0D%0AAlthough Bush appeared to hold a fluctuating lead throughout the 36 days of recounts%2C  without the overseas absentee ballots counted after Election Day%2C Gore would have won Florida by 202 votes%2C and thus the White House. But no one knew that until the 36 days were over%3B by then%2C it was a historical footnote. When you take into account all of the facts plus the Republican exclusion of 15%2C000 REGISTERED voters as %22felons%22%2C The 2000 election was stolen%3B not from Gore and Lieberman%2C but from the democratic process itself. We are all much poorer for it.%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0APulled from my research archives%2C I think this was originally published in the LA Times.%0D%0A%0D%0A%5Bb%5D%5Bh6%5DThe last Head of State to have a 90%25 approval rating was named Adolf.%5B%2Fh6%5D%5B%2Fb%5D %0D%0A
23|3|I%27m sorry%2C I have to disagree|AlGore2004dotORG||21:20:30|10/22/2001|%22I don%27t think either party really wants fair campaign finance reform. Each wants a form of CFR that Handcuffs the other sides ability to raise funds.%22%0D%0A%0D%0AI%27m not going to argue that Democrats are all paragons of virtue and Republicans are all evil slime%2C because human nature is human nature.  But it was the GOP leadership who choloformed the latest round of Campaign Finance Reform legislation - - the Senate passed McCain%2FFeingold and there were enough votes for it in the GOP controlled House that Hasert yanked it off the floor and sat on it.  He is still sitting on it to this day.%0D%0A%0D%0A%5Bfont color%3D%22%23333333%22 size%3D%221%22 face%3D%22Verdana%22%5DGore 2004 - - Letting The Glory Out%0D%0Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.Al-Gore-2004.org%5B%2Ffont%5D
24|3|A few of President Gore%27s ideas on CFR|AlGore2004dotORG||21:45:53|10/22/2001|A portion of President Gore%27s Speech On Political And Campaign Reform at Marquette University%2C WI%3B 3%2F27%2F00%0D%0A%0D%0A%22Experience has shown us that the best path to political reform is step-by-step-and passing McCain-Feingold is the critical first step.%0D%0A%0D%0ABut we must go further in the term of the next President.%0D%0A%0D%0AThe next important steps are tough new lobbying reform%2C publicly-guaranteed TV time for debates and advocacy by candidates%2C and a crackdown on issue advocacy ads.%0D%0A%0D%0AI will propose and fight for a law requiring monthly disclosure of all lobbyists%27 activities%2C posted on the Internet and fully accessible to the public. Every citizen will be able to find out to whom lobbyists have contributed%2C and the specific meetings they%27ve gained to influence specific pieces of legislation.%0D%0A%0D%0AFull disclosure of lobbying activities can help dry up the supply of special-interest money. Free TV time can help reduce the demand for it.%0D%0A%0D%0AI said more than ten years ago-and I still believe today-that %22broadcasters are given a government license for exclusive use of the public airwaves. In return%2C they are expected to operate in the public interest.%22%0D%0A%0D%0AI will strongly advocate the approach developed by Paul Taylor. Every broadcaster should give every candidate for federal office five minutes of air time a night in the last thirty days before the general election. Cable operators should work with their content providers to establish a similar practice.%0D%0A%0D%0AAnd if broadcast stations air independent issue ads%2C I believe they should be required by the FCC to give-for free-the same amount of air time to both candidates in the race. If broadcasters wanted to avoid the requirement to give such free time%2C all they have to do is say no to the special interests who want to influence our campaigns. I will petition the FCC to issue a ruling that recognizes this requirement as a necessary part of broadcasters%27 obligation to serve the public. And I will appoint commissioners who-like some already on the FCC-believe the public interest must be protected in new ways%2C in light of new threats facing it.%0D%0A%0D%0AStep by step%2C we can reduce the influence of special-interest money in campaigns. But our ultimate goal must be to eliminate it altogether.%0D%0A%0D%0ASome believe the answer is a system of public financing for Congressional and Presidential elections%2C like the one I first supported in the 1970%27s.%0D%0A%0D%0AHowever%2C bills to establish public financing of Congressional elections have been introduced in every single session of Congress for a quarter-century-and not a single comprehensive public financing proposal has passed Congress. Almost none have been approved by even one Congressional Committee.%0D%0A%0D%0AIt is time for a new approach to achieve the fundamental goal of freeing our democracy from the coils of special-interest cash.%0D%0A%0D%0ASo I propose the creation of a non-partisan Democracy Endowment-to follow up on the urgent reform of our campaign finance laws by McCain-Feingold with a revolutionary change to further safeguard our self-government in the 21st Century.%0D%0A%0D%0AThe Democracy Endowment will raise more than %247 billion over seven years%2C and then%2C with the interest and the returns on investment%2C finance Senate and House general election campaigns-with no other contributions allowed to candidates who accept the funding.%0D%0A%0D%0ALet me be clear%3A this is a non-partisan endowment for our common democracy. You can%27t give to any one party%3B you can%27t give to any one candidate. Every qualified candidate will have access to these funds according to a formula that is based on the district or state in which they are running. The views of the donor will have absolutely no influence on the views of the recipient. In this way%2C we will break the connection between the giving of money and the gaining of influence in these election contests.%0D%0A%0D%0ATo raise the funds for the Endowment%2C there will be a 100 percent tax deduction for any individual or corporation that contributes-on a first-come%2C first-serve basis-until the Endowment is filled. And as soon as it is filled%2C the tax deduction will sunset.%0D%0A%0D%0AAs President%2C I will work aggressively to secure these funds-and I will seek the help of every corporation%2C every union%2C every major foundation%2C every dot-com millionaire and every other citizen in America.%0D%0A%0D%0AIf the endowment is not filled within seven years%2C the difference will be made up by free TV time-required of broadcasters as a condition for their licenses.%0D%0A%0D%0AThis will provide a powerful incentive for broadcasters to air public service announcements that will help fill the fund.%0D%0A%0D%0AFrom McCain-Feingold to lobbying reform and a crack-down on special interest issue ads%2C to the Democracy Endowment%2C our cause is nothing less than the most sweeping campaign finance reform in history. And it will not be easy. For just as the tobacco companies battle every major measure to reduce teen smoking-just as the HMO lobbyists fight against measures to ensure the best health care%2C not just the cheapest-they and all the other special interests will be joined together in waging a mighty war to preserve their place and their privileges under the current political system.%0D%0A%0D%0ABut let us understand what is at stake here-our faith in our own self-government%2C and ultimately%2C the very future of our democracy.%22%0D%0A%0D%0AFull text of the speech%3A%0D%0Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.al-gore-2004.org%2Fgorespeeches%2F03272000.htm%0D%0A%0D%0A%5Bfont color%3D%22%23333333%22 size%3D%221%22 face%3D%22Verdana%22%5DGore 2004 - - Letting The Glory Out%0D%0Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.Al-Gore-2004.org%5B%2Ffont%5D
30|1|Supreme Court must be disenfranchised|dbt||09:22:15|10/23/2001|Campaign finance reform %28ie cut off all corporate%2FPAC donations%29 and public financing of campaigns will do a lot%2C but the Supreme Court must never be allowed to determine the outcome of a presidential election--ever again. %28Yeah%2C I know they promised never to do it again...but who believes THAT shite%3F%29
37|2|You do realize that. . .|StopThief||10:28:04|10/23/2001|the only way to ensure that the Supremes have nothing to with another election is to not allow the filing of a lawsuit that can make its way to them.  If that was the law in 2000%2C Gore%27s original lawsuit could never have been filed and the election would have been over in a day instead of a month.
38|2|Supreme Court must never be allowed to determine |reprobate||13:52:40|10/23/2001|%0D%0AThe facts are%2C according to most legal minds%2C that the Extreme court had no legal right under the law to determine that election.%0D%0A%0D%0AThe constitution puts the determination of electors strictly in the hands of the individual states%2C and for the extremes to have usurped that is a slap in the face of the constitution.%0D%0A%0D%0AI blame the undereducated american public for allowing this.  An educated electorate would have risen in protest%2C with lawsuits raining like confetti down on them.  And the media whores are even more to blame for not spreading the word.%0D%0A%0D%0ABut I fear it%27s too late now.  The fascists are in control and will not let go easily.  They have the power%2C we have only the power to obey.