"Could Seized Americans Face Tribunal? Yes, if stripped of Citizenship"

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khephra (7970 posts) Dec-04-01, 09:34 PM (ET) "Could Seized Americans Face Tribunal? Yes, if stripped of Citizenship" Could Seized American Face Treason Count? The capture of a Taliban fighter in Afghanistan identified as John Walker Lindh, a 20-year-old American, has sent government lawyers scurrying to figure out what to do with him and what charges he should face, if any. One senior administration official said today that because Mr. Walker appeared to be a citizen, he could almost certainly not be tried on any charge before the kind of military tribunal that President Bush established with his order of Nov. 13. That order applies explicitly to noncitizens; to bring Mr. Walker before such a tribunal, then, the government would first have to try to strip him of his citizenship. A spokesman for the military's Central Command said tonight that Mr. Walker, now in United States custody, was the sole American captured by Afghan opposition forces in the aftermath of the bloody rebellion by Taliban fighters held captive at a 19th-century fortress. A C.I.A. operative, Johnny Michael Spann, was killed early in that uprising, and if Mr. Walker was involved in the death, he could face murder-related charges in a civilian court. One senior administration lawyer said it was too early to know how Mr. Walker (who uses his mother's surname rather than his father's) would be dealt with. The official emphasized that few details about Mr. Walker had been confirmed and that any real deliberation on how to proceed would depend on what was learned about his activities, especially in the last several weeks, when American officials have described the nation as being in a state of war in Afghanistan. MORE............. http://www.nytimes.com/2001/12/04/politics/04TRIA.html   Alert Edit | Reply | Top

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Subject     Author     Message Date     ID    Citizenship... AlienGirl Dec-04-01 1    Look, even this bunch will not try to do that Cappurr 12/04/2001 2        Cappur, you are probably right, but remfan 12/04/2001 4        been there, done that... chanster 12/04/2001 5        No, they could take away his citizenship—legally mobuto 12/04/2001 6            Yes, they could take away his citizenship -- thats not the problem Cappurr 12/04/2001 12                You are probably right, Cappurr chanster 12/04/2001 13                May not have to take his citizenship away... Jester 12/05/2001 25                Sorry, I believe you are mistaken mobuto 12/05/2001 26                    I don't think so chaumont58 12/05/2001 37            Dual citizenship? Mika 12/05/2001 19                I know the US government doesn't recognize it mobuto 12/05/2001 27            But he didn't... northzax 12/05/2001 21                Actually, no mobuto 12/05/2001 28                    that's not the point... OldCurmudgeon 12/05/2001 31            The whole point of the tribunals is that the Taliban are not soldiers. J B 12/05/2001 32        "They can't change the facts to suit the forum and the law?" tom_paine 12/05/2001 17            Why they want to take no prisoners Generic Other 12/05/2001 23    I Guess Democrats Aren't, Either ..... CO Liberal 12/04/2001 3    I know his dad said that -- did W. as well? Lisa 12/04/2001 9  OK, let's think this through.. RoxanneJ Dec-04-01 7    Well he did train at an Al-Queda terrorist camp. Son of G 12/05/2001 15    don't forget northzax 12/05/2001 22  Walker joined the Taliban about 6 months ago, right? Sick of Bullshit Dec-04-01 8  Hmmm... the irony is they may not be able to charge this guy JCMach1 Dec-04-01 10  a question about southern felons unblock Dec-04-01 11    unblock, re: the south and stripping reprobate 12/05/2001 20  Those Fascists Will Do Almost Anything! farmboxer Dec-05-01 14  Treason DrGonzoLives Dec-05-01 16    Finally, a voice of sanity dolstein 12/05/2001 24        Dolstein, you are not an arbiter of sanity. zizka 12/05/2001 36  What I Don't Get! Mantooth Dec-05-01 18  FYI: MSNBC to have attorney on (12/5 4:13 PM EST) RoxanneJ Dec-05-01 29  I thought under international Law - everyone has the right Canada _AKA America Jr Dec-05-01 30    If he went to newyawker99 12/05/2001 33  Can they please, please do this to Clayton Waagner?? KamaAina Dec-05-01 34  Both war crimes and treason are legally-defined crimes. zizka Dec-05-01 35

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AlienGirl (97 posts) Dec-04-01, 09:45 PM (ET) 1. "Citizenship..." Perhaps it's Tinfoil Hat time for me, but does anyone else remember Shrub's infamous remark that athiests probably weren't "real" American citizens? Tucker "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro."--Hunter S. Thompson   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Top

Cappurr (2938 posts) Dec-04-01, 09:48 PM (ET) 2. "Look, even this bunch will not try to do that" If they did take his citizenship, he HAD American citizenship at the time of the offense. They can't change the facts to suit the forum and the law. Its know as ex post facto and it is a no-no Cats rule; Republicans drool   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Top

remfan (571 posts) Dec-04-01, 10:08 PM (ET) 4. "Cappur, you are probably right, but" just the floating of the idea makes me nervous. I'm sure the unnamed senior administration official has no idea about the legalities, but to float the idea to the NY Times means someone is thinking about it. They put that stuff out to the press for a reason. Standing on the shoulders of giants leaves me cold. "King of Birds" - R.E.M.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Top

chanster (5 posts) Dec-04-01, 10:11 PM (ET) 5. "been there, done that..." The BATF has already been accused of violating ex post facto in a Kentucky raid against a hard-core militia leader. http://www.democraticunderground.com/cgi-bin/duforum/duboard.cgi?az=list_threads&om=10273&forum=DCForumID5 It wouldn't suprise me to see them try the same tactics on American Taliban fighters. In fact, I almost hope they do try it - maybe it will help more people see the danger of these so-called "Patriot" laws. Many people think they are safe because they are US citizens - they didn't realize that the JBT* get to determine who is and is not worthy of citizenship. *Jack-Booted Thugs --chanster   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Top

mobuto (1003 posts) Dec-04-01, 10:23 PM (ET) 6. "No, they could take away his citizenship—legally" Serving in the armed forces of another nation voids your citizenship. I know because I'm a dual French/American citizen, and when the French tried to draft me, I risked losing my American citizenship. Which would have really sucked. But fortunately, the French changed their laws just in time and abolished the draft. Probably because they didn't want a bumbling fool like me in La grande armée. "I didn't accept it. I received it." —Richard Allen, Ray Gun's National Security Adviser, explaining why a bribe wasn't a bribe.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Top

Cappurr (2938 posts) Dec-04-01, 10:40 PM (ET) 12. "Yes, they could take away his citizenship -- thats not the problem" The problem is that the offence he could be charged with in a tribunal happened while he still had his citizenship. They would have to take it after, because the crime is already over -- he is a prisoner now. So they cant change the Executive Order to allow him to be tried on the grounds he is not a citizen because he was at the time of the offence. Understand. Besides, as a practical matter they are not gonna try this sweet little white boy. His mom and dad are already out there talking about how he was brainwashed by the Taliban. He will tell everything he knows and cut a deal with the government. Cats rule; Republicans drool   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Top

chanster (5 posts) Dec-04-01, 10:54 PM (ET) 13. "You are probably right, Cappurr" However, I still think his citizenship could be stripped retro-actively. Here is the law: http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/8/1481.html US Code as of: 01/02/01 Sec. 1481. Loss of nationality by native-born or naturalized citizen; voluntary action; burden of proof; presumptions (a) A person who is a national of the United States whether by birth or naturalization, shall lose his nationality by voluntarily performing any of the following acts with the intention of relinquishing United States nationality - .... (7) committing any act of treason against, or attempting by force to overthrow, or bearing arms against, the United States, violating or conspiring to violate any of the provisions of section 2383 of title 18, or willfully performing any act in violation of section 2385 of title 18, or violating section 2384 of title 18 by engaging in a conspiracy to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, if and when he is convicted thereof by a court martial or by a court of competent jurisdiction. So if this sweet little white boy has been an active member of Al Qaeda for several months, then that could qualify for "engaging in a conspiricy to destroy by force the Government of the United States", in which case his citizenship would have been nullified well before the EO on tribunals, right? In fact, I could see this little clause being applied to all sorts of undesirables... --chanster   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Top

Jester (72 posts) Dec-05-01, 12:32 PM (ET) 25. "May not have to take his citizenship away..." I wonder if he would fall under the MEJA. Link Gone are the days when offenders who commit crimes overseas escape prosecution because they happen to be American civilians. The Military Extraterritorial Jurisdiction Act of 2000 established federal jurisdiction over crimes committed overseas by U.S. civilians. <snip> The act applies to conduct that would constitute a federal offense if committed in the United States. The offense must be a felony, meaning it is punishable by more than one year of imprisonment, Schmitt said. "The effect of this new law is that crimes such as rape, child molestation, drug dealing, and serious property crime will no longer go unpunished when committed by American civilians overseas," he said. No one has yet been prosecuted under the act, Schmitt said. He explained that there are still a number of procedural issues that must be implemented by the Department of Defense and the Department of Justice.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Top

mobuto (1003 posts) Dec-05-01, 02:32 PM (ET) 26. "Sorry, I believe you are mistaken" Serving in a foreign army automatically voids your citizenship (in theory), although they usually ignore it. "I didn't accept it. I received it." —Richard Allen, Ray Gun's National Security Adviser, explaining why a bribe wasn't a bribe.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Top

chaumont58 (357 posts) Dec-05-01, 11:50 PM (ET) 37. "I don't think so" The have been Americans who serve in the French Foreign Legion, who didn't lose their citizenship, and if I remember right, back in the late 50s and early 60s, the government tried to take citizenship away from men who fought for Castro, and I remember that the US Supreme Court finally decided that a natural born citizenship can not be removed. One can renounce his citizenship, but the Government can not remove it.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Top

Mika (62 posts) Dec-05-01, 10:19 AM (ET) 19. "Dual citizenship?" I know because I'm a dual French/American citizen.. I hate to break it to you, but when it comes down to dealing with the US legal system there's no such thing. You pledge allegiance to the US IF you are a naturalized American citizen. You renounce your citizenship when you become a citizen of another country (with few exceptions). Dual citizenship might be 'legal' in some other countries... but when push comes to shove (in a legal case) it is not so in the US. http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/8/1481.html TITLE 8 - ALIENS AND NATIONALITY A person who is a national of the United States whether by birth or naturalization, shall lose his nationality by voluntarily performing any of the following acts with the intention of relinquishing United States nationality - .. (2) taking an oath or making an affirmation or other formal declaration of allegiance to a foreign state or a political subdivision thereof, after having attained the age of eighteen years   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Top

mobuto (1003 posts) Dec-05-01, 02:35 PM (ET) 27. "I know the US government doesn't recognize it" The French don't consider me to be an American citizen. What do I care? When I'm in the US, I'm an American, when I'm in France, I'm a Frenchman. I've been a citizen of both countries since both, so I haven't renounced squat. And I'm not violating any law. My mother has triple citizenship—US, French and Argentine. I could have claimed Argentine citizenship too, but had no use for it. "I didn't accept it. I received it." —Richard Allen, Ray Gun's National Security Adviser, explaining why a bribe wasn't a bribe.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Top

northzax (357 posts) Dec-05-01, 10:30 AM (ET) 21. "But he didn't..." serve in the armed forces of another nation. He was in a citizen militia. We do not, and have not, recognized the taliban as a legit government. only states can have armies, and since the taliban never were the legal state. he never served in a foreign army. If they say he did, then anyone associated with al quaeda in the most rudimentary form can be stripped of citizenship and tried. now that's frightening. also, this kid can be tried in the afgan courts for murder, if he was involved in the death of the CIA agent, but we cannot extend our laws to cover foreign lands. there is no extraterritoriality any more, i think that went out with the british empire. so even though he is a citizen of the us, his crime was in afganistan, and he's their problem, not ours (god help him. I think i'd rather face a bush tribunal than a northern alliance court) ----- How can we dance when the world is turning? How can we sleep when our beds are burning? -Midnight Oil   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Top

mobuto (1003 posts) Dec-05-01, 02:43 PM (ET) 28. "Actually, no" He did not serve in the armed forces of another nation. He was in a citizen militia. We do not, and have not, recognized the taliban as a legit government. only states can have armies, and since the taliban never were the legal state. he never served in a foreign army. Point taken. I still contend that the Taliban army is an army. It may not be a recognized governmental army, but its still a foreign army. If they say he did, then anyone associated with al quaeda in the most rudimentary form can be stripped of citizenship and tried. No, because Al Qu'aida is not an army, and I don't think anybody's ever claimed it is. "I didn't accept it. I received it." —Richard Allen, Ray Gun's National Security Adviser, explaining why a bribe wasn't a bribe.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Top

OldCurmudgeon (42 posts) Dec-05-01, 04:23 PM (ET) 31. "that's not the point..." {If they say he did, then anyone associated with al quaeda in the most rudimentary form can be stripped of citizenship and tried.} No, because Al Qu'aida is not an army, and I don't think anybody's ever claimed it is. Whether he was in Al Qu'aida or the Taliban Army isn't the main point, really. It's actually quite difficult for a (native) citizen to renounce their citizenship; at least according to Federal courts. Note the section in the US code posted previously: ...(blah blah blah...serves in the armed forces, etc)... with intent to renounce citizenship. (emphasis added) It's that intent that is the critical issue. And in the court rulings, about the only way to show sufficient intent is to stand up in front of a US diplomat and officially renounce citizenship. And probably answer "yes" to "are you really, REALLY , REALLY sure???" a few times, as well. The US constitution makes anyone born in within the borders of the USA a citizen. Period. It's difficult to get around that unless the person in question really desires to lose citizenship. There is at least one supreme court case on exactly this issue.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Top

J B (445 posts) Dec-05-01, 06:20 PM (ET) 32. "The whole point of the tribunals is that the Taliban are not soldiers." The whole point of trying them like this with LESS rights than a POW is that they are simply armed combattants who are NOT soldiers of a recognized state. Therefore, this man is a criminal, and arguably a traitor, but NOT a soldier of another nation, because the Taliban WAS NEVER ACKNOWLEDGED to be the government of Afghanistan. That honor went to the political head of the Northern Alliance.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Top

tom_paine (1093 posts) Dec-05-01, 08:21 AM (ET) 17. ""They can't change the facts to suit the forum and the law?"" LAST EDITED ON Dec-05-01 AT 08:23 AM (ET) I don't usually disagree with you, but have you noticed how there is no difference between lies and the absolute, provable truth (where it exists?) in public dialogue now? They have shown that they can pretty much do what they want without fear of resistance from weak Amerikan Royal Subjects. They have shown that it is incredibly easy to misle and lie to the Serfs, especially when there is no Free Press to call them on it. I must disagree with you, capurr, but from where I sit, truth is nearly valueless in our national dialogue and character. It's just another point of view in a noisy crowd of them. Numbers flow by in an incomprehensible stream, pundits wink and flash as they fly through expounding largely Scaife-funded viewpoints. What, you say War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery; Knowledge is Ignorance? Well, ok, I see the pundits on CNN and FOX say it's true. It must be so, then. ===================================== “There are persons, too, who see not the full extent of the evil which threatens them; they solace themselves with hopes that the enemy, if he succeed, will be merciful. It is the madness of folly, to expect mercy from those who have refused to do justice; and even mercy, where conquest is the object...” --Thomas Paine “Those who would trade away their essential liberties for a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.” --Benjamin Franklin "Governor Bush's economic plan is a reckless tax scheme that would immediately put our country back into deficit." --President (in-exile) Al Gore, December 1999   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Top

Generic Other (118 posts) Dec-05-01, 11:16 AM (ET) 23. "Why they want to take no prisoners" I suspect if a journalist hadn't discovered this American among the Taliban prisoners first, none of us would know of him at all. He would have vanished without trace. The trial of a US citizen who witnessed the CIA-led massacre of Taliban prisoners will be a real embarassment to the US government especially if unethical secret operations are exposed. Certainly many questions I have about this event. I will follow such a trial with great interest. Just how much info can we expect a young man who joined Taliban in June to have? Was he in on WTC plots with Al-Q inner circle? Doubt it. Was he watching CNN news every night? Unlikely. Did he know Bush gave Taliban government 43 million in July? Was he aware who bombed WTC? Did he even know it happened? Who did he shoot at? N.A. forces? US B-52's? Were there witnesses to his "treason"? Can you charge him with such a crime when the US has not even declared war against the Taliban? Let the Senate investigations begin! Court TV, clear the calendar. Screw the military tribunal crap. American citizens are still entitled to a fair trial in a court of law not a Bush kangaroo court. Stripping us of citizenship in order to deny us due process is a cute trick but not one I expect the courts to support.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Top

CO Liberal (537 posts) Dec-04-01, 09:49 PM (ET) 3. "I Guess Democrats Aren't, Either ....." At least that's what I keep hearing on talk radio. * * * * * * * * * * * CO Liberal "Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read." - Groucho Marx   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Top

Lisa (1002 posts) Dec-04-01, 10:33 PM (ET) 9. "I know his dad said that -- did W. as well?" http://www.cyberdespot.com/home.html?jesustricks/bush.html&frames/left.html&frames/top.html RS (Rob Sherman): "What will you do to win the votes of Americans who are atheists?" GHWB (George Herbert Walker Bush): "I guess I'm pretty weak in the atheist community. Faith in God is important to me." RS: "Surely you recognize the equal citizenship and patriotism of Americans who are atheists?" GHWB: "No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God." RS: "Do you support as a sound constitutional principle the separation of state and church?" GHWB: "Yes, I support the separation of church and state. I'm just not very high on atheists."   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Top

RoxanneJ (1395 posts) Dec-04-01, 10:25 PM (ET) 7. "OK, let's think this through.." First, let me say I think his behavior is reprehensible. But, is it ILLEGAL in any way? The man was legally in a foreign country. He was recruited by the Taliban as a religious soldier. At the time he took up arms, Afghanistan was not at war with the US. He was enlisted in an "army" of a foreign country voluntarily. After we declared war, he was taken prisoner, where he was discovered. So he did what which was illegal?   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Top

Son of G (3 posts) Dec-05-01, 08:13 AM (ET) 15. "Well he did train at an Al-Queda terrorist camp." I think it would be difficult to prove whether he was a member of the Taliban, which is not on the Foreign Terrorist Organization list, or Al-Queda which is on the list. Still, by his own admission he trained at an Al-Q camp which could most certainly be construed as aiding or abetting an FTO. Or, they could strip his citizenship and leave him to whatever passes for a justice system in post-Taliban Afghanistan. I doubt if he'll want that.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Top

northzax (357 posts) Dec-05-01, 10:46 AM (ET) 22. "don't forget" that we never 'declared war' legally, this is not a war, it is a 'military action' as such, we should use the right term for it. only the congress can declare "war" ----- How can we dance when the world is turning? How can we sleep when our beds are burning? -Midnight Oil   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Top

Sick of Bullshit (487 posts) Dec-04-01, 10:29 PM (ET) 8. "Walker joined the Taliban about 6 months ago, right?" Maybe he was motivated by the administration's gift of $43 million to the Taliban announced last May. "Can any of y'all tell me the way to Moscow? or is that Waterloo? Hell, I don't know, but it's one of them furn places"   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Top

JCMach1 (1480 posts) Dec-04-01, 10:34 PM (ET) 10. "Hmmm... the irony is they may not be able to charge this guy" with anything. ************************************************** "Deserves it! I daresay he does. Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends." -Gandalf   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Top

unblock (477 posts) Dec-04-01, 10:39 PM (ET) 11. "a question about southern felons" does the south strip felons of their citizenship, or only of their right to vote? if citizenship, can they ultimately be tried by military tribushnal?   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Top

reprobate (716 posts) Dec-05-01, 10:23 AM (ET) 20. "unblock, re: the south and stripping" The south has been known to strip prisoners of their SKIN. By the way, the states cannot remove citizenship, only the feds can. Of course here in florida you can lose the right to vote even if you haven't been convicted. You just have to be black.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Top

farmboxer (1777 posts) Dec-05-01, 02:35 AM (ET) 14. "Those Fascists Will Do Almost Anything!" Who knows how far they will go! After all, they created America's first coup and appointed a President who was the loser of an election!   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Top

DrGonzoLives (2711 posts) Dec-05-01, 08:21 AM (ET) 16. "Treason" If he was an American citizen fighting with an enemy army, that sounds like treason to me. Maybe he was brainwashed, who knows, but it seems to me he went over there of his own accord. Tricky, tricky - I wonder if Bu$h foresaw that. ===================================== "Is a dream a lie that don't come true? Or is it something worse?" - Bruce Springsteen, "The River" "You can get more with a kind word and a two-by-four than with a kind word alone" - Marcus, "Babylon 5" "East, West, just points of the compass, each as stupid as the other." - Dr. No   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Top

dolstein (310 posts) Dec-05-01, 11:38 AM (ET) 24. "Finally, a voice of sanity" Personally, I think we ought to let the authorities of the new regime in Afghanistan decide his fate. I think he lost any claim to the rights of an American citizen when he joined the Taliban military. If he loves Afghanistan so much, fine, let him be tried under their laws.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Top

zizka (752 posts) Dec-05-01, 11:13 PM (ET) 36. "Dolstein, you are not an arbiter of sanity." Thank God. You'd have the whole left wing of the Democratic Party in the nuthouse if you were.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Top

Mantooth (59 posts) Dec-05-01, 09:42 AM (ET) 18. "What I Don't Get!" How is it that a lilly white, 20 year old boy from San Francisco can get into bin Laden's camp, but the CIA, with it's multi-billion dollar budget, can't?! Maybe, before they put him before the Tribunal, the CIA could get some pointers on how to infiltrate your enemy's inner circle! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "No nation can preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare." -- James Madison   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Top

RoxanneJ (1395 posts) Dec-05-01, 04:17 PM (ET) 29. "FYI: MSNBC to have attorney on (12/5 4:13 PM EST)" All they said was "coming up soon" interview with attorney representing Walker.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Top

Canada _AKA America Jr (210 posts) Dec-05-01, 04:20 PM (ET) 30. "I thought under international Law - everyone has the right" to be a citizen of a state. IE: a person can not be stateless? B   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Top

newyawker99 (905 posts) Dec-05-01, 08:15 PM (ET) 33. "If he went to " Afghanistan freely then I cant see how his family can say he was brainwashed. I think he did a real stupid thing and who knows what will happen to him now. When I saw him on TV last week he looked very sick and weak. I think he committed treason but whether he will be charged is yet to be seen.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Top

KamaAina (413 posts) Dec-05-01, 08:26 PM (ET) 34. "Can they please, please do this to Clayton Waagner??" I mean, they did say they were going to fight terra-ism "wherever it exists", right? Oh, silly me. Good reich-wing Christian fetus fetishists aren't terra-ists, they're "freedom fighters". My bad. Ua mau ke ea o ka `aina i ka pono. (The life of the land is perpetuated in righteousness.) -Motto of the Kingdom, Republic, Territory and State of Hawai`i, successively, 1845-present   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Top

zizka (752 posts) Dec-05-01, 10:20 PM (ET) 35. "Both war crimes and treason are legally-defined crimes." Afghanistan is not legally at war with the US even now, and was not even at war de facto when this guy went there. I think that treason requires a shift of allegiance during a state of war. (I wonder if the guy got Afghan citizenship or renounced his US citizenship). As far as I know, joining a foreign military is not illegal. God knows that enough Americans have gone to work for other fascist regimes besides the Taliban (US-friendly fascists). And trying the Taliban in secret military courts -- what will they be tried for? Unless there were specific war crimes, all they were doing was fighting against an enemy. There's a long tradition of not treating combatants as criminals. As far as I know, only the perpetrators of the 9/11 attack can legitimately be tried at all. The rest of them are just enemy soldiers, unless they committed war crimes.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Top

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