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"Brother admits his perjury sent Ethel Rosenberg to electric chair"

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kskiska Donating Member (3501 posts) Click to EMail kskiska Click to send private message to kskiska Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Dec-04-01, 08:41 PM (ET)
"Brother admits his perjury sent Ethel Rosenberg to electric chair"
NEW YORK (AP) -- The brother of convicted spy Ethel Rosenberg admits in a new book that
he lied under oath to save himself, and is unconcerned that his perjury sent Rosenberg and
her husband, Julius, to the electric chair 48 years ago.

"As a spy who turned his family in... I don't care," David Greenglass says in a television
interview to be broadcast Wednesday. "I sleep very well."

Greenglass, now 79, makes the stunning disclosure of false testimony in "The Brother" by
veteran New York Times editor Sam Roberts, and in a taped interview to be broadcast
Wednesday on CBS' "60 Minutes II."

Julius and Ethel Rosenberg were convicted in a sensational trial in 1951 of conspiring to
steal U.S. atomic secrets for the Soviet Union. Both died in Sing Sing's electric chair in June
1953, the only people ever executed in the United States for Cold War espionage.

Greenglass, Ethel's younger brother, admits in the book that he, too, was a spy who gave
the Soviets information about Los Alamos atomic research and a detonator invented by
another scientist.

When the Rosenbergs came to trial, Greenglass was also under indictment and worried that
he and his wife, Ruth, would be convicted. He says Roy Cohn, an assistant prosecutor and
later aide to Sen. Joseph McCarthy, encouraged him to lie.

In court, Greenglass delivered what would be the most incriminating testimony against Ethel
-- that she transcribed his spy notes destined for Moscow on a portable typewriter. His wife
corroborated his testimony.

But now, Greenglass tells author Roberts that he based his account on Ruth's recollection
and had no independent memory of the note-typing. In the TV interview, he repeats this,
saying, "I don't know who typed it, frankly, and to this day I can't remember that the typing
took place. I had no memory of that at all -- none whatsoever."

"Ethel may or may not have typed up David's handwritten notes that September 1945
evening... Who knows?" Roberts writes in his book, published by Random House.
"Handwritten or typed, the notes contained little or nothing that was new. But from the
prosecution's perspective, the Remington (typewriter) was as good as a smoking gun in Ethel
Rosenberg's hands."

In the TV interview, Greenglass is asked why the Rosenbergs went to their deaths rather
than admit espionage.

"One word -- stupidity," Greenglass replies. Asked whether that makes Ethel responsible for
her own death, he says, "Yeah."

In reply to questions, Greenglass admits he is sometimes haunted by the Rosenberg case,
but "my wife says, `Look, we're still alive."'

more…
http://www.nj.com/newsflash/jersey/index.ssf?/cgi-free/getstory_ssf.cgi?j0184_BC_NY--Rosenbergs-Brothe&&news&newsflash-newjersey

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  Table of Contents

  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
 But, but, but kcr Dec-04-01 1
   Hold Your Horses dolstein 12/04/2001 2
       What bothers me kcr 12/04/2001 3
           Last year sometime revcarol 12/04/2001 5
               There was no treason kskiska 12/04/2001 6
       Greenglass did time. kskiska 12/04/2001 4
           J. Edgar Hoover and Roy Cohn IndianaGreen 12/04/2001 7
 Sorry, the link now turns up a blank page kskiska Dec-04-01 8
   Different, lengthy article kskiska 12/04/2001 9
       Good find. Well worth reading. recidivist 12/05/2001 10
 Another book to read gratuitous Dec-05-01 11
   Dirty little secret kskiska 12/05/2001 12

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kcr Donating Member (1383 posts) Click to EMail kcr Click to send private message to kcr Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Dec-04-01, 08:44 PM (ET)
1. "But, but, but"
the Rosenburg's were guilty! George Will and William Safire told me so!

---------------------------------------
---------------------------------------
From the conservative dark
Into the ethical life
-W.H. Auden
On September Eleventh we all became patriots (again). We did NOT become Republicans!
-Sally Pedersen

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dolstein (288 posts) Click to EMail dolstein Click to send private message to dolstein Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Dec-04-01, 09:07 PM (ET)
2. "Hold Your Horses"
At least in the excerpt, Greenglass doesn't say that Julius and Ethel Rosenberg were innocent. The admission of perjury is indeed very disturbing, as is the evidence of prosecutorial misconduct. Of course, it's long been known that Roy Cohn cut a lot of corners to secure a conviction against the Rosebnergs. But if you look at what Greenglass testified about, what he really seemed to be doing is getting hearsay into the record by reporting his wife's observations as his own. This was perjury, in that Greenglass didn't actually observe Rosenberg typing the notes. But Greenglass says his wife did witness this, and he was relying on her recollection. This falls far short of an exoneration. Of course, in our system, the prosecution still has to prove guilt, so one has to wonder what might have happened if Greenglass had never testified.

Does anybody know of Greenglass and his wife were ever convicted?

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kcr Donating Member (1383 posts) Click to EMail kcr Click to send private message to kcr Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Dec-04-01, 09:14 PM (ET)
3. "What bothers me"
is that all of the evidence against the Rosenberg's seems like this: perfect, until years later it is chipped away at.

I was mostly ranting - I am sick of listening to right wingers crow about "a good kill" when they know damn well the evidence - particulalry in Ethel's case - is far from perfect.

And I am sick of people like Greenberg, Nixon and Chen being held up by that same crowd as "heros" when they wer ein reality nothing more than common bullies.

Okay, done ranting

---------------------------------------
---------------------------------------
From the conservative dark
Into the ethical life
-W.H. Auden
On September Eleventh we all became patriots (again). We did NOT become Republicans!
-Sally Pedersen

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revcarol Donating Member (1803 posts) Click to EMail revcarol Click to send private message to revcarol Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Dec-04-01, 09:21 PM (ET)
5. "Last year sometime"
handwritten documents of both Rosenburgs were found that incriminated both. At the time, I remember everyone saying that the issue of their guilt had been finally decided.Does anyone else remember this?

There's no statute of limitations on treason,but there is on perjury.

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kskiska Donating Member (3501 posts) Click to EMail kskiska Click to send private message to kskiska Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Dec-04-01, 09:27 PM (ET)
6. "There was no treason"
They were convicted on conspiracy to commit espionage - not treason. I did a quick google search and there are all sorts of F.O.I. papers that were released.
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kskiska Donating Member (3501 posts) Click to EMail kskiska Click to send private message to kskiska Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Dec-04-01, 09:17 PM (ET)
4. "Greenglass did time."
He plea bargained, though, to save his wife from doing time. I'm sure they were involved in small-time espionage (Mr. Big was Klaus Fuchs, not the Rosenbergs, who were small potatoes), but it really didn't warrant the death penalty. Remember, Russia was our ally at the time the information was passed. Look at the spies we have in jail today - the Walkers and a number of others - who passed information much more substantial than anything the Rosenbergs possessed.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (4923 posts) Click to EMail IndianaGreen Click to send private message to IndianaGreen Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Dec-04-01, 09:35 PM (ET)
7. "J. Edgar Hoover and Roy Cohn"
The FBI had no clue about who stole the "atomic secrets". Hoover was an anti-Semite, a compulsive gambler, and a rightwing crossdresser. Hoover needed to "get" anyone to save his FBI from having to explain the theft of the atomic secrets. Roy Cohn, the self-loathing Jew and repressed homosexual, wanted to make a name for himself. Ethel was blameless! The country was then engulfed in the same hysteria that grips our nation today about unseen enemies.

The funny thing is that the atomic secrets were never stolen. The head of the British science team, Klaus Fuchs, was working for Lavrenti Beria, Stalin's head of KGB. He was passing all of the Los Alamos research work to Moscow that he saw, plus what he was given by an as-yet-named contact. To this day, the KGB has yet to release the name of Fuchs's other contact. Some have speculated that it may have been Fuch's own superior, and head of the project, Robert Oppenheimer.

The Russians would have build an atomic bomb without the benefit of Los Alamos material. It would have taken them a couple of years longer, but that is all!

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kskiska Donating Member (3501 posts) Click to EMail kskiska Click to send private message to kskiska Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Dec-04-01, 09:36 PM (ET)
8. "Sorry, the link now turns up a blank page"
It worked 15 minutes ago. Anyway, the interview with David Greenglass will be on 60 Minutes II tomorrow (Wednesday) night.
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kskiska Donating Member (3501 posts) Click to EMail kskiska Click to send private message to kskiska Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Dec-04-01, 09:50 PM (ET)
9. "Different, lengthy article"
http://www.frontpagemag.com/columnists/radosh/2001/rr10-31-01.htm

Discusses "the Verona papers." I've got to read these new books and rethink this case.

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recidivist (190 posts) Click to EMail recidivist Click to send private message to recidivist Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Dec-05-01, 09:50 AM (ET)
10. "Good find. Well worth reading."
LAST EDITED ON Dec-05-01 AT 10:15 AM (ET)

People who have not followed the Rosenberg case should be alerted that Ronald Radosh is the leading historian of the case, bar none. A red-diaper baby himself, he began researching the case years ago to demonstrate the Rosenbergs' innocence. The evidence convinced him otherwise.

Radosh has since changed his politics and runs with the ex-radical pack, so some folks will be inclined to play shoot the messenger. That would be a mistake. You don't have to agree with Radosh, but you do have to take him seriously (on the Rosenbergs, at least).

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gratuitous Donating Member (205 posts) Click to EMail gratuitous Click to send private message to gratuitous Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Dec-05-01, 10:59 AM (ET)
11. "Another book to read"
For those REALLY interested (and I mean that in the most loving, obsessive way, the way that must include oneself), there is an out-of-print book, "The Atom Spy Hoax" written by William A. Reuben in 1956 (!). One of the points of his book is that after Hiroshima and Nagasaski, there was no "secret" to the atom bomb -- it clearly worked. Once that fact was out there, it was merely a matter of time before Soviet researchers figured out how to construct their own.

In another memorable chapter, Reuben recalls June 1950 as the month the United States went mad. This was the month Communist forces swept out of the north and nearly took over the entire Korean peninsula, along with a couple of other events that I don't recall right this minute, that unbalanced the American psyche. Reuben details story after story from the Home Front to demonstrate how the pressure popped the cork on U.S. fears, and all manner of government abuse of the rights of its citizens ensued.

What bothers me, I guess, is the sanctimony of folks who would claim a moral superiority for the United States that it hasn't earned. We rightly condemn the Soviet Union and Red China and any number of other dictatorships for the oppression of their citizenry, but we're remarkably unable to discern the motes, planks and beams that cloud our own eye. If the need to execute the Rosenbergs was part of some national expiation or catharsis, then let's call it that. But let's not pretend that it was a triumph of the singular virtues of the American System. Perjury, coerced testimony, prosecutorial abuse, anti-Semitism and show executions do not vindicate but indict a system of law supposedly based on the greatest declaration of human rights our species has ever asserted.

Now, WHO can argue with that?!

--Olson Johnson, "Blazing Saddles"

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kskiska Donating Member (3501 posts) Click to EMail kskiska Click to send private message to kskiska Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Dec-05-01, 02:00 PM (ET)
12. "Dirty little secret"
Right, gratuitous, I've read that before. There is no "secret" to the bomb. It was just a device to sway public opinion against the Rosenbergs and paint them as traitors who gave the bomb away to the Russians.
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