18||0|0yes
0|0|Ich bin Ein...|Crinis Villa||18:50:16|05/28/2002|I don%27t know if anyone was brought this up yet%2C but birdman%27s piece%2C %22Ich Bin Ein Embarrassment%22 posted on May 28%2C 2002%2C contains one factual error%2C which is the translation of %22Ich bin ein Berliner.%22 Kennedy%2C as strong a a President as he may have been%2C demonstrated to the German people that day his lack of command over the German tongue.  In German an article is not required before %22Berliner%22 and thus what JFK actually said was %22I am a a jelly-pastry.%22%0D%0A%0D%0ATo say %22I am a Berliner%22  one need only say %22Ich bin Berliner.%22%0D%0A%0D%0AAre there any Germans in the audience tonight to set us straight on this%3F%3F%3F%0D%0A%0D%0A-CV%0D%0A%0D%0A
1|1|I%27m not German but...|Grillo||19:15:49|05/28/2002|I know that when JFK emphatically said %22Ich bin ein Berliner%22 he was wrong%2C but nevertheless loved for his remarks. They knew what he meant%2C they knew it wasn%27t his language and they still remember that %22gaffe%22 with affection.%0D%0AOn the whole it%27s much better than anything the idiot of Bush representing the USA has said%2C could have said or is capable of saying. |0
2|1|I don%27t speak German but it%27s not true.|jmm||19:23:14|05/28/2002|http%3A%2F%2Furbanlegends.about.com%2Flibrary%2Fweekly%2Faa021700a.htm%0D%0A%0D%0A%5Bi%5DYour informant was right on the mark. This is truly The Gaffe That Never Was%2C despite reports to the contrary in venues as prestigious as the New York Times and Newsweek magazine. Experts say Kennedy%27s German grammar was flawless when he uttered those words near the Berlin Wall on June 26%2C 1963. The phrase had been translated for him by a professional interpreter. %0D%0A%0D%0AIt%27s true that the word %22Berliner%22 in German means a particular kind of jelly-filled pastry as well as a citizen of Berlin. But look at it this way%3A If I were to tell a group of Americans that my editor is a New Yorker%2C would any of them really think I%27ve confused him with a well-known weekly magazine%3F %5B%2Fi%5D%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A%5Bfont color%3D%22%23333333%22 size%3D%221%22 face%3D%22Verdana%22%5DThe hottest places in Hell are reserved for those who remain neutral in time of great moral crisis.%0D%0A-Dante Alighieri%0D%0A%0D%0AWe hear a lot about values from our friends on the other side of the aisle. But values to them are too often just code words for excluding some Americans from fully sharing in rights and opportunities.%0D%0A-Senator John Kerry %28D-MA%29%0D%0A%0D%0A%5B%2Ffont%5D|0
5|2|Thanks%21|Crinis Villa||20:24:19|05/28/2002|Good to know ole JFK isn%27t a a jelly-filled pastry.  Whew%21|2
3|1|A minor gaffe vs. a permanent foot in mouth fixture|Nobody||19:44:38|05/28/2002|True or not%2C messing up while trying to speak a foreign language is not evidence of idiocy. What IS evidence of idiocy is when you constantly have your foot in your mouth and make gaffes every day in your native language.%0D%0A%0D%0AI%27d think that one of the requirements for being a US President is to speak English fluently.|0
4|2|plus the fact that a casual gaffe can start wars ...|Lisa||20:15:28|05/28/2002|[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON May-28-02 AT 08:22 PM (ET)[/font][p]Remember what happened last year%2C when Bush got his tenses muddled and ended up accusing the North Koreans of violating a treaty %28although it was apparently because he hasn%27t mastered the  %22conditional%22 thing yet%2C and was talking about what he%27d do should that situation arise ... tricky enough%21%29.%0D%0A%0D%0AGiven that he%27s the leader of the world%27s most influential country%2C and people are hanging on his every word -- one would hope that a US President would be clear and precise.  I don%27t think it%27s too much to ask%2C that someone holding that job be a better speaker than I am%21%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0Ap.s.  did anyone else think it was funny that Michael Moore made an effort to speak French in his thank-you speech at Cannes -- while the best Bush can do is blurt out a Spanish phrase when he%27s standing next to Chirac%3F|3
6|3|Does anybody remember...|Crinis Villa||20:31:29|05/28/2002|[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON May-28-02 AT 08:36 PM (ET)[/font][p]when Bushie called the President of Spain a goose in Spanish when he said %22Se%F1or %E1nsar%22 instead of %22Se%F1or Aznar%22%3F  I%27m still laughing...|4
15|4|No Excuse For That|Enjolras||07:07:34|05/31/2002|Since Spanish is a language the President allegedly %5Bi%5Ddoes%5B%2Fi%5D speak.  %3A-%29%0D%0A%0D%0A%5Bfont color%3D%22%23333333%22 size%3D%221%22 face%3D%22Verdana%22%5DI wasn%27t put here to be treated%0D%0Alike some disease you hoped would go away if left alone%0D%0A%0D%0AYou can sweep me under the carpet%0D%0Abut I%27ll still infect your need to use me%0D%0Aas a stepping stone%0D%0A%0D%0A-- Skid Row %22The Threat%22%0D%0A%0D%0A%22All great truths begin as blasphemies%22%0D%0A%0D%0A-- George Bernard Shaw%0D%0A%0D%0A%22If the Democrats run for cover%2C if we become pale carbon copies of the opposition%2C we will lose -- and deserve to lose.  The last thing this country needs is two republican parties.%22%0D%0A%0D%0A-- Ted Kennedy%2C Jan. 1995%5B%2Ffont%5D|6
18|5|the word|salin||02:36:14|06/01/2002|%22allegedly%22 being the operative word...%3A%29%0D%0A%0D%0A%5Bfont color%3D%22%23333333%22 size%3D%221%22 face%3D%22Verdana%22%5D%22We expect there to be transparency. People who have something to hide make us nervous....%22 GWB in Alaska - discussing Iraq.%0D%0A%5B%2Ffont%5D|15
7|1|I had actually heard the %22jelly donut%22 story |birdman||20:56:57|05/28/2002|before I wrote my article but decided to use Kennedy%27s%0D%0Aactual words anyway in contrasting his speech with%0D%0Athat of our present functional illiterate.  Interesting%0D%0Ato read on this thread that the jelly donut story may%0D%0Anot be entirely accurate after all.%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A%7D%3E%0D%0A|0
8|1|way cool thread ....|Lisa||21:31:41|05/28/2002|I love these kinds of stories%21  %28BTW%2C welcome to DU%2C Crinis Villa.%29%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0AI thought it was particularly interesting that the Urban Legends expert noted that President Kennedy had been well-prepared prior to his speech.  Contrast that with the cavalcade of inaccuracies and non-sequiturs delivered by the current officeholder over the past few days %28including his forgetting that his own father had spent Memorial Day out of the country during his term%29.  Dr. Rice said that they had %22gotten ahead of the fact-checkers%22%2C which suggests that they are no Kennedy White House%21%0D%0A|0
9|1|It%27s odd that quote even still gets brought up.  Will folks still talk about|Wonk||00:28:03|05/29/2002|this in 30 years%3F  Come to think of it... probably.... assuming there are still folks in 30 years...%0D%0A%0D%0Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.bartcop.com%2Fenron-scared.jpg|0
10|1|Beat me to it...|Barney Gumble||00:37:18|05/29/2002|Herr Keller%2C my high school German teacher%2C would repeat the %22jelly donut%22 story often.  The Germans didn%27t mind--JFK was loved.  Something this president never has been or ever will be.%0D%0A%0D%0A%5Bfont color%3D%22%23333333%22 size%3D%221%22 face%3D%22Verdana%22%5D%22Perhaps in time the so-called %27Dark Ages%27 will be thought of as including our own.%22 -G.C. Lichtenburg%5B%2Ffont%5D|0
12|2|Checked with University German teachers . . .|brodie||01:09:56|05/30/2002|a few years back%2C just because I knew the story sounded bogus.  Checked with major universities %28including Berkeley and Stanford%29%3A  Of about 5 profs%2C ALL said his German was proper and was understood clearly.%0D%0A%0D%0ABTW%2C my understanding is that it was his brilliant Nat%27l Security Advisor%2C McGeorge Bundy%2C who was very fluent in German%2C who gave JFK the line %28and not a professional interpretor%29.%0D%0A%0D%0ABut this falsehood has even entered into some books%2C as I noted a while back browsing through one of those SAT History Prep books.  Truly sad how lies are repeated.%0D%0A%0D%0AAnyway%2C JFK was notoriously bad with foreign languages %28unlike Jackie%29%2C and he spent a good deal of the time on the plane to Berlin repeating the several German phrases he was given to utter%2C in order to get them just right.%0D%0A%0D%0AThe speech was a huge success.  And the lines were delivered well.  %0D%0A%0D%0AFurther%2C no papers there or here reported on any alleged major language gaffe at the time.%0D%0A%0D%0AWhen JFK got back to the WH%2C he screened the film taken of his speech.%0D%0A%0D%0AHe thought it was so good%2C he was seen applauding.%0D%0A%0D%0AAnd it was -- one of the greatest speeches delivered by any American Prez of the 20th C.|10
17|2|Hear%2C hear|freemind||21:41:21|05/31/2002|The %22polls%22 may indicate approval now%2C but just give it some time-- future generations will recognize him as one of the least qualified %22leaders%22 in American history--an insult to all people.|10
11|1|%22Ich bin Ein...%22|etaoinshrdlu||14:54:30|05/29/2002|The sentence might have ended with %22Wiener%22 in Vienna or %22Hamburger%22 in Hamburg. In any case%2C Berlin was in need of help many times after WW2 %28the Berlin Airlift ...%29 and JFK was showing support.%0D%0A%0D%0AIf GWB were to speak he might say %22Ich bin Ein Esel%22 %28Esel %3D Donkey or Jackass%29 even if he is not a Democrat %28for which we should give praise%29.%0D%0A%0D%0A%5Bfont color%3D%22%23333333%22 size%3D%225%22 face%3D%22Verdana%22%5Dnon-functioning portions of my brain have been removed%0D%0AA Democrat is NOT an Esel%5B%2Ffont%5D|0
13|1|Ich bin ein Dumbkopf|lanlady||00:49:19|05/31/2002|is the message Georgie carried to Europe.%0D%0A%3A-%29|0
16|2|I thought it was|MurrayDelph||19:55:17|05/31/2002|Ich bin ein BEGINNER|13
14|1|since this has turned into a lounge like thread...|Wonk||01:21:49|05/31/2002|http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bartcop.com%2Fblockhead.jpg|0