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"Is Al Gore like Ashley Wilkes in "Gone With the Wind??""

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KoKo01 (66 posts) Click to EMail KoKo01 Click to send private message to KoKo01 Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Nov-12-01, 09:11 PM (ET)
"Is Al Gore like Ashley Wilkes in "Gone With the Wind??""
O.k. I'm reposting. I am not getting an answer althought the firs three to my former post about giving it up on Gore were good because they understood where I was coming from.

This is what I as a Democrat need to know to keep going. Is my party like Ashley Wilkes in GTW too! Come on even those of you 20 and 30 somethings saw GTW. If not, let me just say it out loud. Is Al Gore a Wimp!!! Forget Ashley for those who don't know.

I need help here to keep up the fight.

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  Table of Contents

  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
 Man, you are really milking it! robbedvoter Nov-13-01 1
   Sorry for Milking the Thread, Depression over NORC coverage!! KoKo01 11/13/2001 3
 Actually, Koko Cappurr Nov-13-01 2
   My personal opinion of Ashley Wilkes.. chefgirl 11/13/2001 4
       anbout the balls... lucystone 11/14/2001 19
           He shouldn't have said: KoKo01 11/14/2001 20
   As I remember, Ashley didn't marry Scarlett Lydia Leftcoast 11/14/2001 17
       Didn't Ashley say he was too good for Scarlett... KoKo01 11/14/2001 18
 Chivalry only works if BOTH SIDES agree to play JCMach1 Nov-13-01 5
   Chivalry left Ashley Wilkes Loki 11/13/2001 6
   Absolutely JCMach Coyul 11/13/2001 8
       We need a combination of Huey Long's fire JCMach1 11/13/2001 14
 The bottom line is this: Gore1FL Nov-13-01 7
   A new Dem candidate needs to Earn our support! KoKo01 11/13/2001 10
 Gore is quickly becoming an accomplice to the election crime mw Nov-13-01 9
   Actually, a friend and I "argued" over this last night LisaM 11/13/2001 11
       Yes. That, and take soft swipes mw 11/13/2001 12
 Gone with the Wind is a crappy book romanticizing slavery robbedvoter Nov-13-01 13
   Hey robbed voter! I was a Number One!!!! Gore Supporter! KoKo01 11/13/2001 15
       Why should he? Are you two having a thing or what? robbedvoter 11/13/2001 16

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robbedvoter (900 posts) Click to EMail robbedvoter Click to send private message to robbedvoter Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Nov-13-01, 00:33 AM (ET)
1. "Man, you are really milking it!"
Is your real name Richard Berke? The third thread in one day - you should have this looked at!

"Make your client think he's getting laid, when in fact he's getting fucked"
Mike Bloomberg

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KoKo01 (66 posts) Click to EMail KoKo01 Click to send private message to KoKo01 Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Nov-13-01, 07:07 AM (ET)
3. "Sorry for Milking the Thread, Depression over NORC coverage!!"
Also was upset over Gore saying 2000 is over. Made me think about Repub's telling us "Bush Won, Get Over It. I apologize.
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Cappurr Donating Member (2239 posts) Click to EMail Cappurr Click to send private message to Cappurr Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Nov-13-01, 02:45 AM (ET)
2. "Actually, Koko"
LAST EDITED ON Nov-13-01 AT 02:47 AM (ET)

Ashley Wilkes was not a wimp at all. He love Melanie and married her despite Scarlett's selfish machinations. He left his home of comfort and wealth and fought a brutal war. Yes, he did marry Scarlet after Melanie died and he did let her push him into a business he may not have been interested in, but one could argue that he lost his verve for life when Melanie died. And didn't he die in defense of Scarlett and a black man?

And as far as Al Gore, well, like Ashley, he loves his wife and makes no secret of that. He, too, went to the war front (though admittedly as a journalist. But at least he went when his influence could have kept him out.

I think the real question here should be is George Bush a wimp. After all, unlike Ashley and Gore, he'd rather quit than fight. And he has never done anything in his life without using his family influence.

Nope. I don't think Ashley or Al is a wimp. But George sure is.

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chefgirl Donating Member (89 posts) Click to EMail chefgirl Click to send private message to chefgirl Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Nov-13-01, 09:41 AM (ET)
4. "My personal opinion of Ashley Wilkes.."
I never thought of Ashley as a wimp either, but more as a man who let chivalry and gallantry and gentelmanly behavior get in the way of what he really wanted. To get it, he wouldn't compromise his priciples. In that way, yes, Al Gore is very much like Ashley, however, politics is not the game you want to play if being a gentleman above all else is your priority.
That's the reason I always loved Bill Clinton so much. He fully understood that concept and still managed to be a terrific public servant. It took real balls for him to stick around when so many were calling for him to resign. It might have been the gentlemanly thing to do, but he knew we needed him to stay and fight for us. Besides-- F**K EM!
Admittedly, it was probably much harder for Al Gore to compromise than it was for Bill Clinton, but that's why they call it public service.
Just like Ashley, he may have preserved his 'good' name, but ended up the loser in the long run.
Just my humble opinion.

-chef

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lucystone (41 posts) Click to EMail lucystone Click to send private message to lucystone Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Nov-14-01, 11:24 AM (ET)
19. "anbout the balls..."
You say that it took real balls for Clinton to stick around when everyone told him to resign. Sorry, but it took a hell of a lot more balls to push the recount all the way to the supreme court. Clinton was a sitting president being harrassed for a consensual affair, which he stupidly lied about and could have saved us all the big mess. That doesn't take the balls it took for Gore, the media declared election loser, fighting for Florida. Gore was fighting nearly every voice willing to be heard (how many public vpoices did you hear saying, stick with it Gore?), even many in his own party. You want balls, that took balls.

And what exactly do those of you calling him a wimp want him to do right now? Run in the streets and call for revolution? Seriously, what could he do right now that would please you? I'm curious.

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KoKo01 (66 posts) Click to EMail KoKo01 Click to send private message to KoKo01 Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Nov-14-01, 11:38 AM (ET)
20. "He shouldn't have said: "
"Bush is my Commander in Chief, and the Election is Over." Anything but That!
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1913 posts) Click to EMail Lydia%20Leftcoast Click to send private message to Lydia%20Leftcoast Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Nov-14-01, 01:30 AM (ET)
17. "As I remember, Ashley didn't marry Scarlett"
Scarlett was married three times, to an 18-year-old named Charlie who was about to go off to the war, where he died of measles, then to a businessman named Frank Kennedy (who got shot, I think), and then to Rhett Butler. She had a child with each one (in the book, not in the movie).

After Melanie died, Scarlett made a play for Ashley, only to be rejected by him.

"Be ye therefore wise as serpents and
harmless as doves."--- Matthew 10:16

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KoKo01 (66 posts) Click to EMail KoKo01 Click to send private message to KoKo01 Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Nov-14-01, 11:01 AM (ET)
18. "Didn't Ashley say he was too good for Scarlett..."
something like she was full of life and he would hold her back.
I remember that from the movie somehow, and it is more vivid to me than the book which I read a long time ago. Makes me think of Gore and his not acknowledging the NORC recount. Don't know why, this whole thing reminds me of GWTW. Another poster used the analogy in a thread and it just hit me like a ton of bricks.

I feel like we are in the aftermath of the Civil War in this country, I guess. With all the opposing forces fighting over the same thing, even the rights of slaves! (when you have racial profiling going on) Oh well, enough of this thread.

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JCMach1 (1143 posts) Click to EMail JCMach1 Click to send private message to JCMach1 Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Nov-13-01, 10:09 AM (ET)
5. "Chivalry only works if BOTH SIDES agree to play"
by a set of rules.

Republicans no longer play by THE RULES. Gore should have known that after the Clinton Impeachment.

Folks, you can't put the genie back in the bottle either. That means future Democratic candidates are going to have to play by the NEW rules-- WIN AT ALL COSTS!

**************************************************

"All governments suffer a recurring problem: Power attracts pathological personalities. It is not that power corrupts but that it is magnetic to the corruptible. And corruption wears infinite disguises. Such people have a tendency to become drunk on violence, a condition to which they are quickly addicted."

-Frank Herbert

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Loki Donating Member (277 posts) Click to EMail Loki Click to send private message to Loki Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Nov-13-01, 10:21 AM (ET)
6. "Chivalry left Ashley Wilkes"
a broken man. What the Democratic Party needs is more Rhett Butlers!

"Let us not meekly serve our time."
Tom Hayden

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Coyul (50 posts) Click to EMail Coyul Click to send private message to Coyul Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Nov-13-01, 10:41 AM (ET)
8. "Absolutely JCMach"
I would add....FIGHT FIRE WITH FIRE
I am sure the Democrats are getting good points for the afterlife, playing nicey-nice with the Fascists, but it sure as hell isn't helping our nation or her people.
We need toIMHO)
1. Challenge every single bloody nomination for anything, White House rest room attendant etc. etc. Can't trust these bastards with anything!
2. Run someone who isn't afraid to call them crooks, and prove it. We should really be discussing impeachment. Even if it goes no where, it will remind the nazi's what they did to Bill.
3. Dig up and spread the dirt of the Bush family every single place we can. Post them at grocery stores, on lamp posts or what have you.
Basically make their lives a living hell, and make them as impotent with their power as we can. It is the patriotic thing to do...period.

Just my 2 cents...


*************************************
"Freedom is hammered out on the anvil of discussion, dissent, and debate."
Hubert H. Humphrey

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JCMach1 (1143 posts) Click to EMail JCMach1 Click to send private message to JCMach1 Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Nov-13-01, 04:45 PM (ET)
14. "We need a combination of Huey Long's fire"
JFK's charisma

and Truman's honesty.

That would be a hell of a candidate
**************************************************

"All governments suffer a recurring problem: Power attracts pathological personalities. It is not that power corrupts but that it is magnetic to the corruptible. And corruption wears infinite disguises. Such people have a tendency to become drunk on violence, a condition to which they are quickly addicted."

-Frank Herbert

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Gore1FL Donating Member (2199 posts) Click to EMail Gore1FL Click to send private message to Gore1FL Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Nov-13-01, 10:29 AM (ET)
7. "The bottom line is this:"
Election 2000 soiled both candidates. No one came out unbloodied.

This is especially important based on the election. Billed as an election that nobody cared about, it generated a boatload of first-time voters.

We can go a lot of ways with this

In all likelyhood Bush is a one-termer

Many people have been exposed, and more will be

Now, as a party we have to understand Gore's position is, in many ways, like Bush's.

Gore can ill afford to criticise the President, especially at a juncture in time when many, including the media, would spin it as unpatriotic. What does that accomplish? In four years this will come back to haunt him like every other out-of-context attack they used in 2000. On the other had, if he shows support as a patriot, for Bush, he can quash any of Bush's attacks, but reminding him that he supported him as the president despite his reservations on the vote count, and that in repayment, Bush is making more wild and unfounded accusations.

He can't afford to speak out at this time. It would mean his political death. Trent Lott can afford to say outrageus statements about supporting the troops but not supporting the president, because the people who vote for him are generally short-sited dolts. Gore's strength is that he is a better man than Bush. Let him fight at the time and on the ground of his choosing.

He did say that he would abide by the Supreme Court Decision, did he not? Yeah it sucks. Its a travesty. I would love to see him take a more public role. But, I understand that he wants to keep his word -- otherwise, bang, here come the "liar" attacks again from the real liars.

Now, as this progresses, he'll gain issues. He'll develop a case to present. He'll define his role in the public. Let him follow the course he has chosen. He has already proven that he is the better man.

To at this point attack a potential Democratic candidate for president in 2004, is really uncalled for. You cetainly can express doubts, but lets refrain from labling him. Thats what Bush did to demonize him. Certainly you have the option to vote for whomever you like in your primary/caucus, but I doubt seriously that you'd vote against the Democratic candidate knowing how close elections can easily be stolen.

To lable Gore (or Kerry or Edawards, for that matter) now, is to potentially endorse the Republican candidate. Be careful -- such words can be taken out of context and placed in an article spun to demonstrate that even Democrats are happy that Bush is in the White House. Propaganda is all the easier if you give them the tools.


Don't Blame me! I voted for Mondale!

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KoKo01 (66 posts) Click to EMail KoKo01 Click to send private message to KoKo01 Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Nov-13-01, 12:24 PM (ET)
10. "A new Dem candidate needs to Earn our support!"
otherwise just supporting any Democrat blindly will be exactly what the Bushie voters did in the last election. He was a "put up job" by the Republican Right and the media fell in behind him.

Al Gore should have said something to us yesterday, besides "Bush is my Commander in Chief, get over it!!"

Gore is like Ashley Wilkes to me, I've decided, because he is a decent man, but too romantic, honest and principled to survive the harsh realities of life when it counts. Clinton is Rhett Butler, a scoundrel with character who could make a difference.

Gore should have acknowledged those of us who carried the torch in his absence. That's what is so hard to deal with. Doesn't mean,I have given up on the party, just given up on him to make his appearance.


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mw (490 posts) Click to EMail mw Click to send private message to mw Click to view user profile Click to send message via ICQ Click to check IP address of the poster
Nov-13-01, 11:50 AM (ET)
9. "Gore is quickly becoming an accomplice to the election crime"
Gore saying "the election is over" again and again is trying my patience.

CNN's recount headline today is "Gore and White House dismiss recount".

That's a TERRIBLE headline, to say they both "dismissed" it. BUT THEY DID! No spin there.

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LisaM (276 posts) Click to EMail LisaM Click to send private message to LisaM Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Nov-13-01, 01:25 PM (ET)
11. "Actually, a friend and I "argued" over this last night"
I think Gore should be a little more on the offensive and she thinks he's being honorable. I get aggravated because I think he should push more on behalf of those who voted for him. She likes how he refused to attack Bush during the campaign and the debates.

I strongly agree with the person who said it's fine to be Mr. Nice Guy, if both sides play by those rules. But in this case, it's like Indiana Jones shooting the guy twirling the scimitar at him.

We ultimately agreed that Gore's best choice now is pointed humor. Just quietly keep making fun of Bunkerboy.

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mw (490 posts) Click to EMail mw Click to send private message to mw Click to view user profile Click to send message via ICQ Click to check IP address of the poster
Nov-13-01, 01:34 PM (ET)
12. "Yes. That, and take soft swipes"
Humor is good. But Gore needs to be magnanimous, while QUIETLY pointing to the dirty election.

FOr example, instead of saying, "The election is over", period, he should say "Despite the understandable disappointment many people have over the methods by which Bush secured his win, his win was ultimately sealed by the Senate, and he is the President". Or something like that.

But he is just ROLLING OVER making sure he doesn't even HINT that the election was dirty. That's wrong, IMHO. It's pissing me off more and more every time he speaks.

Clinton was good at what Gore needs to do: Smiling, gentle swipes.

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robbedvoter (900 posts) Click to EMail robbedvoter Click to send private message to robbedvoter Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Nov-13-01, 04:24 PM (ET)
13. "Gone with the Wind is a crappy book romanticizing slavery"
This is life. I noticed one thing watching these boards:
Those who profess to be the most disappointed by Gore are those who most likely didn't even vote for him, or definitely did not put much faith in him to begin with

That's why I cannot believe you.
As for the rest of us, this is how I feel: my next assignment is to take back the congress. If we succeed, I'll try to make our reps to re-visit Florida. In 2004 I will vote for the dem candidate who can best defeat bush.This is my reality. I leave the fantasy world to you.
"Make your client think he's getting laid, when in fact he's getting fucked"
Mike Bloomberg

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KoKo01 (66 posts) Click to EMail KoKo01 Click to send private message to KoKo01 Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Nov-13-01, 08:41 PM (ET)
15. "Hey robbed voter! I was a Number One!!!! Gore Supporter!"
You have no idea how hard I worked for this guy and to protest what happened in Florida!!! Don't criticize my opinion until you've walked in my shoes! I have had it with Gore, right now.
He did nothing to support my support of him in the final analysis.
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robbedvoter (900 posts) Click to EMail robbedvoter Click to send private message to robbedvoter Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Nov-13-01, 10:27 PM (ET)
16. "Why should he? Are you two having a thing or what?"
Your support should be for democracy, not for the person. This is how I operate - and never get disappointed. Democracy, right to vote - are bigger than any one player I don't care what any one of the characters involved in last years events is doing this moment.
Nothing can change the facts or their significance. Nothing can change my determination to do my best to stop a repeat of the same. I don't know about #1...I hear too often:"I am a lifelong democrat but"... to give that any credence. I've been sold out in NYC and almost decided it doesn't matter what I think or do. I thought it over and you know what? IT MATTERS TO ME. I'll be true to myself and keep my self respect

"Make your client think he's getting laid, when in fact he's getting fucked"
Mike Bloomberg
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