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Ohio State fascism - What happened today

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AngryWhiteDemocrat (1099 posts) Click to EMail AngryWhiteDemocrat Click to send private message to AngryWhiteDemocrat Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Jun-14-02, 03:55 PM (ET)
Ohio State fascism - What happened today
LAST EDITED ON Jun-14-02 AT 03:59 PM (ET)

As I sit here before you, I must admit I am truly exhausted from a full day. I've read the thread about Ohio State on LBN, and I am here to tell you it is true...and then some. I'll try to hit all the details.

And what happened to us is truly unbelieveable.

We arrived at Ohio Stadium at 6am. A rally was scheduled at the Jesse Owens memorial site for that time, and the graduates were to be at their places by 630am. Family and friends were permitted to enter at that time as well.

I didn't get close enough to the 6am rally, but in my search for an organizer of Turn Your Back On Bush, I did indeed hear the announcement. Graduating students were told that they would be expelled and arrested if they turned their backs. they were alerted that dozens of staff memebers and police officers would be watching the stands, as well as the Secret Service. A few students asked for the definition of expulsion....did it mean removal from the stadium or refusal of their diplomas, or both? One of the persons at the front said "Both. And what will your parents do when they are paged from the crowd to bail out their son?" I do not know if this person had an official capacity with the Ohio State University or any police department.

I must say, I did not hear that exchange. I was informed of it later when I found outside the stadium protesting. To tell these ADULTS that after 4 years and 80,000 dollars that they would be tossed aside if they didn't face a certain direction?????

I began to wonder how many of those students went to find their friends who were graduating pre-law.....

We entered the stadium later with family and friends, and similar statements swirled around the crowd. "Please make sure you stand and loudly cheer our President. Our graduates have been requested to do the same, and have agreed to give a loud cheer for Mr. Bush", etc.....

Once inside, we decided that it might not be a good idea to be too close to the front. We saw the lines of people waiting to get in the stadium.....and yes, we saw the yellow buses that carted them all in. I asked one of them where they were from. The woman replied "Upper Arlington". However, she could not provide a zip code when I asked her for it (the main zip code for UA is 43221). Figuring on the masses of bussed-in people, we knew it might not be wise to be up front.

We went behind the graduates and looked for peace signs on the mortar boards (a sign that was meant to ID the Turn-Your-Backers). It was really difficult to get an accurate count, but there were a LOT of peace signs. I was sure that we weren't the only ones counting peace signs.

It didn't take long for our stomachs to turn....the first speaker (I believe teh OSU President) began spouting about how proud they were to have Bush there. He said "We have a long tradition of inviting great men and women to speak at our commencements." I quickly responded "but since we couldn't get one, here's Georgie".

That got the attention of the state trooper in front of us. His eyes were on me the rest of the time.

The speech continued to mention that Chimpy was "a tireless worker in the field of education" and "a man who unified this country after the terrible events of 9/11". It was interesting to note that it took a LONG time for the 9/11 applause to turn into a standing ovation....they held out for that one, not continuing the speech intentionally.

About 10 minutes later, Shrub was introduced to speak. Before he even got to the stage, we did our about-face. I looked over my shoulder to see how many graduates were doing the same. However, everybody was standing at that point, and in pure black robes, it was impossible to see who was facoing what direction. Furthermore, over that same shoulder, I saw one of Columbus' Finest heading our way.

We never got to see how many students participated. We were being led out of Ohio Stadium. To the officers' credit, he realized there was a 3-year-old in my arms and was not at all hostile. I asked him if I was under arrest, and he did not answer me. When we reached the exit, I asked the SS man why we had been ejected, and he told me we were being charged with disturbing the peace. If we chose to leave, the charges would be dropped immediately.

With our daughter in mind, we chose not to fight it. I am sure we will regret it someday when Bush's fabulous economy strikes us and we need a few million in a lawsuit. But our daughter did not need any more irritation on this day.

On this day, June 14th, 2002, I came to the realization that we no longer live in a free society. This is rapidly heading in the same way Nazi Germany headed. Questioning our leaders is no longer the most outrageous crime you can be charged with. Not paying attention to them is.

As you take in this message I give to you, I would like to add a footnote.
Next time, I will not leave quietly.
Next time, I will not allow you to intimidate my fellow Americans who wish to speak out.
Next time I will not be so blind when I confront you.
Next time we meet, I will have more people with me to oppose you.
Next time, I will have brought voter registration cards for people whose eyes I will open to your oppression.

And next time, I will have a babysitter.

Watch what you say, or they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal."
-Supertramp

Proud Card-Carrying Member Of The Grassy Knoll Society

  Alert Edit | Reply | Top

  Table of Contents

  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
 It's a sad day Walt Starr Jun-14-02 1
   It's only sad if we DO get used to it. RationalAnarchist 06/14/2002 110
       America in distress... larebiL 06/14/2002 122
           Bush to Siberia! RationalAnarchist 06/15/2002 186
               What a Hypocritical bunch you are LincolnLad2 06/15/2002 259
                   If you do not see the difference between a private web site Rainbowreflect 06/15/2002 269
                       private privy figureitout 06/15/2002 273
                           Bull Alenne 06/15/2002 274
                   Do you support private property? RationalAnarchist 06/15/2002 272
                   You guys need to learn some new tricks! Tigerlily 06/16/2002 276
                   It's the next day and your post is still here. Cronus 06/16/2002 297
 Good God, AngryWhite Democrat Tigerlily Jun-14-02 2
   Was anyone actually arrested? pw 06/14/2002 5
 Aren't there ANY grounds for a lawsuit? Some sort of action against th... playahata1 Jun-14-02 3
   EXACTLY! Any Lawyers out there with some feedback???1 bardgal 06/15/2002 248
       What's next They'll jail democrats, and only count republican votes! bardgal 06/15/2002 249
       Constitutional Cause of Action cybervigilante 06/16/2002 304
 extremely disturbing! ithacan Jun-14-02 4
   Clinton's security service... PorcupinePhil 06/14/2002 96
       Clinton 96 buz46 06/14/2002 183
           Turn your back Callisto 06/16/2002 286
 You did more than I would have. bindlewurdle Jun-14-02 6
 Thank you, AWD notsodumbhillbilly Jun-14-02 7
   Thanks for the report AWD!! newyawker99 06/14/2002 15
 GODDAM IT! deutsey Jun-14-02 8
   I'm with you D! GinaMaria 06/14/2002 41
   May I suggest the patriotic thing. RationalAnarchist 06/14/2002 111
   Thanks for going and the report.... PaDUer 06/14/2002 113
 Outrageous!!! Ripley Jun-14-02 9
   Heard on radio today PaDUer 06/14/2002 117
   ...violent frat boys... chromotone 06/15/2002 255
 What you told us is significant & of course very sad -- but what you RichM Jun-14-02 10
 thanks, AWD ~ you did good!!!!!!! harrie Jun-14-02 11
 Ohio, Germany orwell Jun-14-02 12
 OMG - from one of own we hear cluedin Jun-14-02 13
 This event will crush Bush beware_of_god Jun-14-02 14
   BUSH IS A COWARD beware_of_god 06/14/2002 16
       I can't believe this pampered SOB Tigerlily 06/14/2002 23
           Well... Loralye 06/22/2002 332
   They're already trying to diminish it cybervigilante 06/18/2002 314
 Unbelieveable! A peaceful, non-verbal protest... alg0912 Jun-14-02 17
   Yes, send a letter to Ohio newspapers too deutsey 06/14/2002 19
       EVERYONE CALL THIS NUMBER! snooper2 06/14/2002 84
 Thank you for your reportage and your courage Squeech Jun-14-02 18
 Mr. Bush, need we remind you: playahata1 Jun-14-02 20
   Off the Cliff Notes orwell 06/14/2002 63
       Won't do any good LiberalFighter 06/15/2002 205
       from first hand experience... cosmicdot 06/15/2002 232
 Thank you for being so courageous. barbaraann Jun-14-02 21
 Thank you AWD myrna minx Jun-14-02 22
 DAMN AWD............. jus_the_facts Jun-14-02 24
   AWD, thank you. Outstanding!! revcarol 06/14/2002 37
 Breaching the Peace! AP Jun-14-02 25
   Really, it isn't... PorcupinePhil 06/14/2002 98
       But turning away and standing in silence? alg0912 06/14/2002 124
           See... PorcupinePhil 06/14/2002 147
               Tell me, what would have happened if the protesters had Star 06/14/2002 149
                   THAT.... PorcupinePhil 06/14/2002 151
               Case Study orwell 06/14/2002 158
                   Look at what was actually done... PorcupinePhil 06/14/2002 164
                       The question is whether the act of standing and turning is harmful 0rganism 06/14/2002 175
                   Case Study kos 06/14/2002 174
                       Brandenburg v Ohio 0rganism 06/14/2002 178
                       It is colorable that Bush's speech was unprotected Faun Otter 06/15/2002 225
                   case study bct999 06/18/2002 312
               Uh....no, those don't apply 0rganism 06/14/2002 171
               But... Kurukami 06/16/2002 280
                   The message delivered isn't what's important... PorcupinePhil 06/16/2002 290
       If giving large sums of money to a politician . . Fuzz 06/14/2002 132
       There is a BIG difference ... maryallen 06/14/2002 150
           Thge problem is... PorcupinePhil 06/14/2002 152
               people who don't applaud during the State of the Union ... Lisa 06/14/2002 155
                   The decision to applaud or not to applaud.... PorcupinePhil 06/14/2002 157
                       "applause" is the example that's needed. TahitiNut 06/15/2002 188
                           They'd argue... PorcupinePhil 06/15/2002 190
                               And I'd argue ... TahitiNut 06/15/2002 197
                                   That.... PorcupinePhil 06/15/2002 198
                                       If it were a non-governmental speaker ... TahitiNut 06/15/2002 199
                                           accomodate dissent... PorcupinePhil 06/15/2002 200
                                           Suggestion for future dissent: applaud at inappropriate times. Wonk 06/15/2002 201
                                               what a hilarious idea! salin 06/15/2002 212
                                                   Any 4-syllable word pronounced almost correctly? TahitiNut 06/15/2002 247
                                                       THAT... PorcupinePhil 06/15/2002 257
                                                       beautiful... they wouldn't know if it was 'real' applause or protest salin 06/15/2002 262
                                                           Highlighting ... TahitiNut 06/15/2002 266
                                               In the District of Northern Virginia, yes. Davis_X_Machina 06/15/2002 261
               Case Study II orwell 06/14/2002 161
                   If it blocked people's vision... PorcupinePhil 06/14/2002 165
                       No, I don't see the point. stickdog 06/15/2002 267
       Restrictions on .... SelfGovern 06/16/2002 292
           That's absurd... PorcupinePhil 06/16/2002 293
               Absurd SelfGovern 06/16/2002 295
                   There ARE a lot of restrictions... PorcupinePhil 06/16/2002 305
   Bush last July: "you don't have to listen unless you really want to" Lisa 06/14/2002 121
       then another idea that doesn't 'block people's view' salin 06/15/2002 213
           In that vein...See no EVIL, Hear no EVIL, speak no EVIL PsychoDad 06/15/2002 227
       Bush is simply amazing !! SoCalDem 06/16/2002 275
 Here's a number for Angry White Democrat JulieRB Jun-14-02 26
   awesome, JulieRB!!!!!!!!! harrie 06/14/2002 31
   I emailed the Freedom Forum Crisco 06/14/2002 35
   Thanks Julie GinaMaria 06/14/2002 48
   National Lawyers Guild? Harley Quinn 06/14/2002 50
   President dipwad is obviously not concerned with the constitution MTracyKid 06/14/2002 106
   Way to go Julie!! Nancy Waterman 06/14/2002 159
 Action Needed....not just Ripley Jun-14-02 27
 Maybe if you had turned your back and set a flag on fire? Mr_SmokesTooMuch Jun-14-02 28
 Will you call Malloy on this? MalloyProducer Jun-14-02 29
   Mike's talking about this now CatWoman 06/14/2002 47
 Please, Please, Tell me somebody had a Camcorder ... MadAsHell Jun-14-02 30
   Man o man proud patriot 06/14/2002 40
   or were recording devices prohibited? nostamj 06/14/2002 44
 Will our leaders speak out? barbaraann Jun-14-02 32
   yes, i completely agree, barbara ann ma21385 06/15/2002 237
 I am very proud to know their are people like you out there. Rainbowreflect Jun-14-02 33
 AWD, I Am So Shocked - I Can't Believe This Happened heidiho Jun-14-02 34
 I salute your bravery. soup Jun-14-02 36
 I'm proud of you AWD. denverbill Jun-14-02 38
 AWD, thank you ... classics Jun-14-02 39
 Malloy is going to read AWD's report deutsey Jun-14-02 42
 AWD- May I use your words in an email? Dr Fate Jun-14-02 43
 Just when I thought I couldn't possibly get more angry... _Wayne_ Jun-14-02 45
 Across the Field 5thGenDemocrat Jun-14-02 46
   another tactic? sinookas 06/14/2002 59
 I called OSU office of the president (you won't believe this) - americanstranger Jun-14-02 49
   And another DU'er is saying AP is retracting the story deutsey 06/14/2002 51
       That would be me - americanstranger 06/14/2002 57
   Bull crap. I know someone who graduated today. Maeve 06/14/2002 55
   AWD you did right freddie57 06/14/2002 62
   A More Powerful Moment of enlightment for America Could Not Have Happe... BlazeDiem 06/14/2002 179
 OMFG Shadoobie Jun-14-02 52
 Kiss them good bye bowens43 Jun-14-02 53
 Thank you AWD for taking your stand. I promise you I will follow when... MarinCoUSA Jun-14-02 54
   ya wanna bet? nostamj 06/14/2002 60
 Hey, AWD! northzax Jun-14-02 56
   Northzax. playahata1 06/14/2002 58
       That's amazing NoFreep4U 06/14/2002 67
           I thought she had an older daughter. playahata1 06/14/2002 70
       thanks for the correction northzax 06/14/2002 68
           My bad, Northzax. playahata1 06/14/2002 76
   Set the record...... AngryWhiteDemocrat 06/14/2002 119
       I wrote this letter to MSRNC- fed2dneck 06/14/2002 140
       AngryWhiteDem, I'm confused. Tigerlily 06/15/2002 214
           A friend AngryWhiteDemocrat 06/15/2002 219
               ??? Tigerlily 06/15/2002 223
                   You ust be young.... AngryWhiteDemocrat 06/15/2002 239
                       Oh no I'm not but... Tigerlily 06/15/2002 242
       Thanks for clearing this up. playahata1 06/15/2002 258
 my god this is sickening dirk Jun-14-02 61
   idea!!......... PaDUer 06/14/2002 128
 AWD, You're Already On Buzzflash and MWO heidiho Jun-14-02 64
   and freeperville... northzax 06/14/2002 71
       I see a couple of them "get it" dirk 06/14/2002 91
   Done and done! IrateCitizen 06/14/2002 90
   I just sent a scathing letter to my local paper... Kurukami 06/16/2002 281
 ABSOLUTELY DISGUSTING. TNOE Jun-14-02 65
   TNOE Eloriel 06/14/2002 172
 Incredible WilliamPitt Jun-14-02 66
 PERMISSION??? WilliamPitt Jun-14-02 69
   W. Pitt rees 06/14/2002 73
       Hell, I hope you DO get scooped northzax 06/14/2002 77
   Yes AngryWhiteDemocrat 06/14/2002 120
 Unbelievable. Absolutely unbelievable. Kitsune Jun-14-02 72
   Yay, AWD...Thank You For Your Report...And GREAT Line... WillyT 06/15/2002 236
 Need the number to the office of the President at OSU.... buckleyd2 Jun-14-02 74
 I sent this on to CNN and CBS TrogL Jun-14-02 75
   Send to.... PaDUer 06/14/2002 141
 Thank you, AWD! We need to spread this story. robbedvoter Jun-14-02 78
 Youre a brave person acaudill Jun-14-02 79
 It doesn't matter where this is reported. haymaker Jun-14-02 80
   AP website has small video Ripley 06/14/2002 82
       i seriously doubt.... flush_bush 06/14/2002 162
           when has the chimp pepsibetterthancoke 06/15/2002 238
 Thank you for the account... and your courage IrateCitizen Jun-14-02 81
   You too? CarbonDate 06/14/2002 95
       AF Vet Catch22Dem 06/15/2002 193
 Thank you, AWD coalminersdaughter Jun-14-02 83
 Just got in touch with Bob Fertik at Democrats.com playahata1 Jun-14-02 85
   and you claim... salin 06/14/2002 102
   Bob Fertik?? Mr Anti-Democrat?? rabid_nerd 06/15/2002 195
       Not to distract from the central issue cybervigilante 06/16/2002 302
 Typical Republican (Fascist) Bullshit Junkdrawer Jun-14-02 86
 Sounds familiar DrWeird Jun-14-02 88
 You'll be Proud of this your entire life ribofunk Jun-14-02 89
   BTW, several of the freeper posters seemed to agree ... altemail 06/14/2002 97
       ...not all freepers respect freedom. alg0912 06/14/2002 99
 On Mike Malloy live 15:46 MDT TrogL Jun-14-02 92
   Finished now TrogL 06/14/2002 94
 I AM FURIOUS, but I am greatful AWD 0rganism Jun-14-02 93
 I am sickened trof Jun-14-02 100
   Welcome to the DU trof! alg0912 06/14/2002 103
   Welcome trof GinaMaria 06/14/2002 107
   What a magnificent first post, trof!! If any of your future remarks RichM 06/14/2002 114
   This is no longer the country I served. ConcernedAmerican 06/14/2002 176
   Welcome trof...To The DU...Great Post !!! WillyT 06/15/2002 243
 I am stunned. The hell with bunnypants. To you AE bo44 Jun-14-02 101
   well done xchrom 06/14/2002 104
       - - - - - ! Q 06/14/2002 105
           Precisely! Once again- Clinton at OSU - no threats, expulsions robbedvoter 06/14/2002 112
 Sickeningly sad DemEx_pat Jun-14-02 108
   Discretion, the better part of Valor. tcmits 06/14/2002 131
   Which is.... AngryWhiteDemocrat 06/14/2002 137
 The Time for Active Resistance has Come RationalAnarchist Jun-14-02 109
 How many were escorted out for turning their backs? ramblin_dave Jun-14-02 115
 I haven't.. DumpGump Jun-14-02 116
   So what do you intend to do, besides post to a forum? psychlist1972 06/14/2002 123
       Good for you, DumpGump! alg0912 06/14/2002 125
           Thanks psychlist1972 06/14/2002 133
               And what have you done, Pete? Tigerlily 06/15/2002 206
       What does it cost... PaDUer 06/14/2002 143
       So what do you plan to do? DEMActivist 06/14/2002 148
       Me personally? Kurukami 06/16/2002 282
 "but since we couldn't get one, here's Georgie" Lisa Jun-14-02 118
 No offense, but so far we only have your word on this psychlist1972 Jun-14-02 126
   I don't mind AngryWhiteDemocrat 06/14/2002 139
       I'd sue OSU, Richard Hollingsworth, and Bush if I were you fed2dneck 06/15/2002 252
   Well, the AP has an article on it. Kurukami 06/16/2002 283
 register a protest complaint cosmicdot Jun-14-02 127
   OSU alums... revcarol 06/14/2002 134
   I called the number at OSU that you gave amelia 06/14/2002 145
 The OSU President should resign immediately for this outrage jsaro Jun-14-02 129
   ooops... it's Ohio State... alg0912 06/14/2002 130
       Oooooops is right! jsaro 06/14/2002 142
   president is leaving notmypresident 06/14/2002 154
 You just never know what will precipitate a reaction Junkdrawer Jun-14-02 135
 AP is already rewriting it's story tcmits Jun-14-02 136
   Two different authors on these two articles Cronus 06/14/2002 160
   Actually, it's still there in some form... Kurukami 06/16/2002 284
 you are one of the lead stories over at buzzflash.com hippiegranny Jun-14-02 138
 Irony: Jesse Owen Memorial ruocal Jun-14-02 144
 Letter to OSU president, William E. Kerwan Seatreaty Jun-14-02 146
   I sniff fascism.... flush_bush 06/14/2002 166
   Earlier this year.... Junkdrawer 06/14/2002 168
 Thank you, AWD, for having the guts to do the right thing! BJ Jun-14-02 153
 Glad you're okay AWD! Susang Jun-14-02 156
   It occurs to me that it was at Kent Sate, also in Ohio, Nancy Waterman 06/14/2002 167
       tin soldiers and Nixon coming cosmicdot 06/15/2002 226
 Outrageous!! madmax Jun-14-02 163
   fascism ewing2001 06/14/2002 170
       Hi ewing, I hope you're feeling better today! Tigerlily 06/15/2002 207
 Well Done... Patriot_Spear Jun-14-02 169
 I am so angry subbi326 Jun-14-02 173
   Ohio allenswill 06/14/2002 177
       Welcome Allenswill! GinaMaria 06/14/2002 181
       Playing It Right Now As I Read This Tread...Tears Flowing... WillyT 06/15/2002 246
 If we don't fight against THIS atrocity then what greater one are we w... BlazeDiem Jun-14-02 180
   I'm not waiting any more... Lee Templeton 06/15/2002 185
       Great letter Lee B Calm 06/16/2002 289
 Since that two bit Texas Slug stole the office............. Magginkat Jun-14-02 182
 AWD Revolution Jun-15-02 184
 Good Job AWD paradox Jun-15-02 187
 How SAD Truthseeker15 Jun-15-02 189
   Communist Press Corp! allenswill 06/15/2002 192
   ????? Tigerlily 06/15/2002 208
   Look at all the newbies 9215 06/15/2002 215
 Ohio State fascism Marthe48 Jun-15-02 191
 How frightening... socialdemocrat1981 Jun-15-02 194
 Thank you AWD.... rabid_nerd Jun-15-02 196
 Forgive me for this, but if you were the grad, your reccount doesn't w... CTV Jun-15-02 202
   Clarification AngryWhiteDemocrat 06/15/2002 220
 Wow seeken Jun-15-02 203
   Is that what you'd do? TahitiNut 06/15/2002 204
   What is it with all the newbies encouraging violence today? Tigerlily 06/15/2002 210
       You had to know... DEMActivist 06/15/2002 216
       something fishy... PaDUer 06/15/2002 218
 Fine Report! skip fox Jun-15-02 209
 Question for AngryWhiteDem... Tigerlily Jun-15-02 211
   Friend AngryWhiteDemocrat 06/15/2002 222
       OHHHHHH. Thank you for clearing that up. Tigerlily 06/15/2002 224
 You did not disappoint us, AWD LiberalTexan Jun-15-02 217
   Unfortunately, Al Gore did behave the same way in 2000 travvller 06/15/2002 228
       How can you say???? AngryWhiteDemocrat 06/15/2002 240
       Just because you give contact info... buckleyd2 06/15/2002 244
       Welcome to DU, Patrick! TahitiNut 06/15/2002 251
       Funny, I was at a Gore rally Anj 06/15/2002 253
           You go!! desi826 06/15/2002 265
       I read this post at the Free Republic site yesterday. PhuLoi 06/16/2002 288
       Checked your group out cybervigilante 06/16/2002 300
 Thank You AWD PsychoDad Jun-15-02 221
   OSU- Call to Action! MGKrebs 06/15/2002 230
 Went to sleep, had a good breakfast, and... Lee Templeton Jun-15-02 229
 good job awd iviangri Jun-15-02 231
 The word from Ohio State gdewan Jun-15-02 233
   Perhaps this deserves it's own thread? Tigerlily 06/15/2002 234
   Please start a separate thread on this Lee Templeton 06/15/2002 235
   Bullsh*t... buckleyd2 06/15/2002 241
 pride is what makes nuclear bombs Hatrackman Jun-15-02 245
 Thank you, AWD SCantiGOP Jun-15-02 250
 OSU denies anyone was escorted out. Loupegarou Jun-15-02 254
   gdewan's post said that Mr. Kerwin would be out of the office... buckleyd2 06/15/2002 256
       In response to buckleyd2 .... indigo 06/15/2002 270
       I haven't received responses either Eloriel 06/16/2002 279
   Second version of that OSU response Lee Templeton 06/15/2002 263
 Where is the truth, what really happened? ramblin_dave Jun-15-02 260
   So enlightening. The information age. When you follow a link Lee Templeton 06/15/2002 264
   For as big a protest... mustangshell 06/15/2002 268
   Hmmm. We need to have people... Kurukami 06/16/2002 285
       Video cameras recording the protestors outside as well MyDogSpot 06/16/2002 291
 related thread peacey Jun-15-02 271
 punc ganesh Jun-16-02 277
   Ohhh! Lookie! A punctuation critique! So (ir)relevant! TahitiNut 06/16/2002 294
   irrelevant clause -- poor sentence construction 0rganism 06/16/2002 296
 I'm Curious EastofEdon Jun-16-02 278
 AngryWhiteDemocrat, Ski & Skinner talked about your letter B Calm Jun-16-02 287
 If we can't turn our backs on him, Let's laugh at him. George Tirebiter Jun-16-02 298
   won't work cybervigilante 06/16/2002 303
       Nah, laughing or turning away are not disturbances of the peace ... George Tirebiter 06/17/2002 308
 Cause of Action? cybervigilante Jun-16-02 299
 A reminder of how things SHOULD be NicksCrusade Jun-16-02 301
   Hello Nickscrusade! Lee Templeton 06/17/2002 306
 Unbelievable, yet believable.... FreedomNewsNetwork Jun-17-02 307
   What were they so worried about? WatchWhatISay 06/17/2002 309
 BUSH=HITLER, thank you for noticing! angrywhitedemocrat, happyherpes Jun-17-02 310
 There are getting what they wanted FiveOfSix Jun-17-02 311
 bump Tigerlily Jun-18-02 313
 OSU Nazi Poster - Get 'em While They're Hot ;') cybervigilante Jun-18-02 315
 It doesn't matter cybervigilante Jun-18-02 316
 Plain Dealer: OSU quells protest but gets angry words cosmicdot Jun-18-02 317
 "Ohio State fascism - What happened today" Leon122 Jun-18-02 318
   The Protests. Inncubus 06/19/2002 319
       Check out Salon.com/ Table Talk hairydog 06/19/2002 320
 I FEEL LIKE I'M TAKING CRAZY PILLS!!!!! pallandr Jun-20-02 321
   Salon Links hairydog 06/20/2002 322
 Grrrrrrr... Colonel Jun-20-02 323
   Let me guess Colonel.... snooper2 06/20/2002 324
       Actually. Colonel 06/20/2002 325
   What's good for the goose? cybervigilante 06/20/2002 326
       that's easy Marianne 06/20/2002 327
   "Patriotism" hasn't died. Kurukami 06/20/2002 328
   How much "RESPECT" did you give Clinton, Kernal? TahitiNut 06/20/2002 329
       Has the ACLU been contacted? PresidentAlGore 06/21/2002 330
   Re:Grrrrrrrr .... HUH? vmounts 06/28/2002 334
   P.S. vmounts 06/28/2002 335
 Um, exactlly where did Bush figure into this other than being the targ... rickshaw Jun-22-02 331
 Respect Buck Jun-23-02 333

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Walt Starr Donating Member (1457 posts) Click to EMail Walt%20Starr Click to send private message to Walt%20Starr Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Jun-14-02, 03:58 PM (ET)
1. It's a sad day
We'd better get used to it, freedom is dead.

Competency Matters

Proud member of the Grassy Knoll Society
since 1963

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RationalAnarchist (24 posts) Click to EMail RationalAnarchist Click to send private message to RationalAnarchist Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Jun-14-02, 06:29 PM (ET)
Reply to post #1
110. It's only sad if we DO get used to it.
We should reject it and smash it.
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larebiL (10 posts) Click to EMail larebiL Click to send private message to larebiL Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Jun-14-02, 07:03 PM (ET)
Reply to post #110
122. America in distress...
Image
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RationalAnarchist (24 posts) Click to EMail RationalAnarchist Click to send private message to RationalAnarchist Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Jun-15-02, 00:16 AM (ET)
Reply to post #122
186. Bush to Siberia!

Bush to Siberia!


A desolate place is a terrible thing to waste!


Image
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LincolnLad2 (1 posts) Click to EMail LincolnLad2 Click to send private message to LincolnLad2 Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Jun-15-02, 04:40 PM (ET)
Reply to post #186
259. What a Hypocritical bunch you are
I have to say that I am appalled at the reported actions of Bush and his cronies. It is not surprising at all though. He did the same and worse to those in Texas who demonstrated against him in front of the Governor's home there.

But, i thought that the real significance of this thread is to show the hypocritical nature of Democratic Underground. DU runs around this site deleting posts it doesn't like. It deletes posts critical of Israel. It deletes posts of articles that are not from its "approved" sites of news sources. I recall reading where the admin here deleted posts of articles from antiwar.com and said that only stories from "approved" sites are permissible. The approved sites were determined as the NY Times and the Wash Post.

So, for you all to be complaining about Bush&Co censoring and quashing dissent, it rings hollow.

Have a good day. I'd be surprised to see this post still here when I return later.

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Rainbowreflect (196 posts) Click to EMail Rainbowreflect Click to send private message to Rainbowreflect Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Jun-15-02, 07:03 PM (ET)
Reply to post #259
269. If you do not see the difference between a private web site
making rules on posts and being able to peacefully protest against an unconstitutionally appointed "president" I feel very sorry for you.
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figureitout (1 posts) Click to EMail figureitout Click to send private message to figureitout Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Jun-15-02, 10:07 PM (ET)
Reply to post #269
273. private privy
it all begins with private entities making rules for the rest of us to follow.
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Alenne (93 posts) Click to EMail Alenne Click to send private message to Alenne Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Jun-15-02, 10:19 PM (ET)
Reply to post #273
274. Bull
DU doesn't make rules for the "rest of us to follow." Do you have to follow the rules of DU in your everyday life? No. You only have to follow their rules if you are a member of DU. If you don't like the rules don't be a member. It is that simple.
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RationalAnarchist (24 posts) Click to EMail RationalAnarchist Click to send private message to RationalAnarchist Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Jun-15-02, 09:54 PM (ET)
Reply to post #259
272. Do you support private property?
If you do, then you're contradicting yourself.
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Tigerlily Donating Member (5490 posts) Click to EMail Tigerlily Click to send private message to Tigerlily Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Jun-16-02, 07:29 AM (ET)
Reply to post #259
276. You guys need to learn some new tricks!
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Cronus (582 posts) Click to EMail Cronus Click to send private message to Cronus Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Jun-16-02, 07:53 PM (ET)
Reply to post #259
297. It's the next day and your post is still here.
Surprised?

Visit My Favorite Web Sites
Cronus Connection —http://cronus.com/ Progressive buttons — http://brainbuttons.com/
Great Indie Music — http://brainscream.com/ Political Satire —http://bushspeaks.com/

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Tigerlily Donating Member (5490 posts) Click to EMail Tigerlily Click to send private message to Tigerlily Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Jun-14-02, 04:00 PM (ET)
2. Good God, AngryWhite Democrat
I don't even know what to say.
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pw (273 posts) Click to EMail pw Click to send private message to pw Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Jun-14-02, 04:03 PM (ET)
Reply to post #2
5. Was anyone actually arrested?
That would be a slam-dunk.
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playahata1 Donating Member (1553 posts) Click to EMail playahata1 Click to send private message to playahata1 Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Jun-14-02, 04:00 PM (ET)
3. Aren't there ANY grounds for a lawsuit? Some sort of action against the university.
I mean, Ohio State is a PUBLIC institution, an arm of the STATE. The STATE cannot compel you to adhere to a particular political viewpoint. Somebody HAS to say something. Somebody out there has got to say "Enough is enough!" Peace.
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bardgal (3 posts) Click to EMail bardgal Click to send private message to bardgal Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Jun-15-02, 01:57 PM (ET)
Reply to post #3
248. EXACTLY! Any Lawyers out there with some feedback???1
This is beyond outrageous!
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bardgal (3 posts) Click to EMail bardgal Click to send private message to bardgal Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Jun-15-02, 02:00 PM (ET)
Reply to post #248
249. What's next They'll jail democrats, and only count republican votes!
Anyone doubt this?
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cybervigilante (307 posts) Click to EMail cybervigilante Click to send private message to cybervigilante Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Jun-16-02, 10:02 PM (ET)
Reply to post #248
304. Constitutional Cause of Action
I think the OSU students have a Constitutional cause of action. Civil rights were Definitely violated by the University and the police, and the University is a state body. Might not get past the rightwing USSC but think of the publicity that will spread the word about fascism at OSU. Here's the possibly applicable law.

I also believe the section of 42 U.S.C. § 1983 (saying "..under color of state law" gives even more latitude for interpretation. Even city cops and state university officials can act under color of state law and a threat of arrest Was made under that color.

However, I'm getting varying opinions on it. That it would be frivolous and invite sanctions (I sure don't think it's frivolous, at least as to the cause). Or you couldn't get an attorney - maybe the ACLU or another group? Or maybe just let the university worry about it without actually filing ;')

These opinions seem to mostly be legal timidity though, not an outright "can't be done." I know a lot of Pro Se people who went after their own suits when lawyers said it wouldn't be cost effective.

==========================

42 U.S.C. § 1983 (Civil Rights Act of 1871)

GENERAL A person states a claim under 42 U.S.C. § 1983 if he alleges that the defendant deprived him of a constitutional right while acting "under color" of state law. Specifically, § 1983 provides that: Every person who, under color of any statute, ordinance, regulation, custom, or usage, of any State or Territory or the District of Columbia, subjects, or causes to be subjected, any citizen of the United States or other person within the jurisdiction thereof to the deprivation of any rights, privileges, or immunities secured by the Constitution and laws, shall be liable to the party injured in an action at law, suit in equity, or other proper proceeding for redress, except that in any action brought against a judicial officer for an act or omission taken in such officer's judicial capacity, injunctive relief shall not be granted unless a declaratory decree was violated or declaratory relief was unavailable. For the purposes of this section, any Act of Congress applicable exclusively to the District of Columbia shall be considered to be a statute of the District of Columbia.


LIMITATION PERIOD & FILING REQUIREMENTS In actions under Section 1983, a court must ascertain the analogous underlying cause of action under state law and apply the applicable statute of limitations. There is no requirement to file with the EEOC or administrative agencies before instituting a Section 1983 action in court.


JURISDICTION In order to state a claim under § 1983, a plaintiff must allege a violation of rights secured by the Constitution or laws of the United States, and that such violation was committed by a person acting under the color of state law.


REMEDIES/DAMAGES Section 1983 permits victims of employment discrimination to obtain a jury trial at which both equitable and legal relief, including compensatory and, under certain circumstances, punitive damages may be awarded. Johnson v. Railway Express Agency, Inc., 421 U.S. 454 (1975).

Jim Mooney

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ithacan (361 posts) Click to EMail ithacan Click to send private message to ithacan Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Jun-14-02, 04:02 PM (ET)
4. extremely disturbing!
thanks angrywhitedemocrat for the report from the front lines. This is truly outrageous, and I am feeling sick after reading it.

But on the bright side: They are afraid. Only someone who truly fears would resort to this kind of silencing tactic. I think I mentioned in another post on this topic that this is the kind of thing that dictators commonly do. Democratic leaders do not behave like this. Can you imagine if Clinton had tried anything like this? I can't imagine him even doing it, but can clearly imagine the rightwingers' response if he did. Let's see if the right wingers respond on this one.

Do you know if others were also led out?

I think it would be just as effective or even moreso if many people had been led out, during Bush's speech. That mass expulsion would have been a statement all in itself.

Thank you for standing up for all of us, AWD!

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PorcupinePhil (309 posts) Click to EMail PorcupinePhil Click to send private message to PorcupinePhil Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Jun-14-02, 05:58 PM (ET)
Reply to post #4
96. Clinton's security service...
regularly took right-wingers out of crowds. I know there were cases where hecklers were arrested by the SS and detained until after Clinton had left. Hell, sometimes you didn't even have to be anti-Clinton for this to happen....remember the woman who asked him to sign her shirt, and then shucked it off, leaving her there in her bra? She was quickly taken away, and later released.
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buz46 (1 posts) Click to EMail buz46 Click to send private message to buz46 Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Jun-14-02, 11:58 PM (ET)
Reply to post #96
183. Clinton 96
These were not "hecklers", they were simply turning their backs.
Furthermore, it's one thing to be removed from a crowd; but to be threatned with arrest and the nullification of ones academic career is quite another.
I often wonder if Bush Is, to paraphrase him, "the evil one", or if those around him are truely dictating policy. I am leaning towards the latter. I suspect, to a certain extent, that this has been the case with all presidents since the assassination of JFK. However, W's version of this charade is the worst I have seen since Reagan's second term!! No one can be that stupid. They should get him better speech writers; at least try to maintain the illusion.
The reason I got off topic is that I find it hard to imagine W ordering security to behave this way. More likely it was some overzealous aide and the, ass kissing, University Faculty.
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Callisto (14 posts) Click to EMail Callisto Click to send private message to Callisto Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Jun-16-02, 03:41 PM (ET)
Reply to post #183
286. Turn your back
I remember when a huge crowd of Viet Nam Vets turned thier backs on Clinton, and Clinton stood there in silence for a few minutes..and then he said "I have heard YOU, now YOU hear me..."
and that my babies was right on the prime time corporate news. Say what you want about Bill, but you can't say he was thin skinned...What about the Freepers at the white house....my God, what hypocrisy the right wing has. They make me want to puke.Heck, they make Jesus puke.

I haven't seen anything about Ohio state on TV except how fabulous everyone thinks the stupid Chimp is. (Tin god) Bush is such a baby. Can't take the heat, never worked in the kitchen, either.

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bindlewurdle Donating Member (352 posts) Click to EMail bindlewurdle Click to send private message to bindlewurdle Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Jun-14-02, 04:03 PM (ET)
6. You did more than I would have.
Good job. Good reporting.

---
for the curious, my name is from a purposely bad poem in Douglas Adams's(1952-2001, RIP) book 'Hitch-Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy.'

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notsodumbhillbilly (210 posts) Click to EMail notsodumbhillbilly Click to send private message to notsodumbhillbilly Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Jun-14-02, 04:03 PM (ET)
7. Thank you, AWD
for being courageous enough to turn your back in spite of threats.

"The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing" - Edmund Burke

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newyawker99 Donating Member (5212 posts) Click to EMail newyawker99 Click to send private message to newyawker99 Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Jun-14-02, 04:08 PM (ET)
Reply to post #7
15. Thanks for the report AWD!!
It is a sad story you tell!!

Image

Image Image Image Image


This is not the life I ordered.

"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." Theodor Geisel

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. Edmund Burke

"Don't walk behind me; I may not lead. Don't walk in front of me; I may not follow. Just walk beside me and be my friend." Albert Camus


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deutsey (1314 posts) Click to EMail deutsey Click to send private message to deutsey Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Jun-14-02, 04:04 PM (ET)
8. GODDAM IT!
THis is unbelievable! Please send this to Buzzflash and Mike Malloy!

OK, DU'ers. WE MUST DO SOMETHING. The time for endless talk is over. The battle lines are drawn. If you can't stand up and silently protest in this country without be led away by police, the game is over for America.

What are we going to do?

We are what we think.
All that we are arises with our thoughts.
With our thoughts we make the world.
The Buddha

“Each time a man stands up for an ideal, or acts to improve the lot of others, or strikes out against injustice, he sends forth a tiny ripple of hope, and crossing each other from a million different centers of energy and daring those ripples build a current which can sweep down the mightiest walls of oppression and resistance." –Robert F. Kennedy, South Africa, 1966

Image

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GinaMaria Donating Member (1965 posts) Click to EMail GinaMaria Click to send private message to GinaMaria Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Jun-14-02, 04:29 PM (ET)
Reply to post #8
41. I'm with you D!
LAST EDITED ON Jun-14-02 AT 04:34 PM (ET)

LAST EDITED ON Jun-14-02 AT 04:31 PM (ET)

The time is now! What are we going to do? It's time to risk arrest. It's time to get babysitters. It's time to stop applauding, cheering and standing for this dictator theif. I am beside myself.

When will we formulate a plan and act? When they start dragging college professors away and putting them into camps? When they falsly accuse and imprison your loved ones? Will you protest as they drag you and your children away and put you all to death?

The events taking place recently are frightening. History warns us to beware. Get ready to stand up or get your passport ready and pack your things, cuz it's for real now.

Great job AWD

If you write something up, we can all get it to our local papers. This needs to be a massive campaign to expose chimpy to the light. Let's take the anger and bitterness and turn it into action.

Bush Knew

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RationalAnarchist (24 posts) Click to EMail RationalAnarchist Click to send private message to RationalAnarchist Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Jun-14-02, 06:30 PM (ET)
Reply to post #8
111. May I suggest the patriotic thing.
It happened in 1776. I can be done again.
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PaDUer (80 posts) Click to EMail PaDUer Click to send private message to PaDUer Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Jun-14-02, 06:34 PM (ET)
Reply to post #8
113. Thanks for going and the report....
however, next time, now that this is occurring, don't take any small children that must be held in your arms due to them possibly getting hurt & always bring others w/ you for the performance of your life. This can't and should not stand in anyone's way of our rights. If we run from them, they're going to do it all the more..they're getting away w/ everything they're doing. Bring a camera or camcorder to take their pix also.
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Ripley (27 posts) Click to EMail Ripley Click to send private message to Ripley Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Jun-14-02, 04:05 PM (ET)
9. Outrageous!!!

I am an alum of OSU and in my day the SS Columbus police did mass arrests on people who happened to be around campus after a big football game....anybody. Due to the usually violent frat boys who busted out windows, lit cars on fire, etc. even when we WON! I was caught in the crossfire after work one saturday, had to escape to the roof of a high st. building. SCARY over football, but this is much worse. Truly it smacks of fascism and the fact that none of the major media will report this makes it real.

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PaDUer (80 posts) Click to EMail PaDUer Click to send private message to PaDUer Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Jun-14-02, 06:46 PM (ET)
Reply to post #9
117. Heard on radio today
some R talk show, he was making a joke about the liberals saying that the US Army is going to be coming to your house and drag you off to a camp, that the govt can monitor what you do in your house, knows what's on your computer, etc., and was telling his audience that the liberals are just doing this to cause trouble. Guess he hadn't heard about what happened here at OSU or chose not to discuss it.
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chromotone (323 posts) Click to EMail chromotone Click to send private message to chromotone Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Jun-15-02, 03:03 PM (ET)
Reply to post #9
255. ...violent frat boys...
"...mass arrests on people who happened to be around campus after a big football game....anybody. Due to the usually violent frat boys who busted out windows, lit cars on fire, etc..."

You mean like George W. Bush:

"Just after the governor's reelection in 1998, Slater pressed Bush about whether he had ever been arrested. 'He said, 'After 1968? No.'" Dallas Morning News, 11/03/2000 (Before 1968, Bush was arrested for theft and vandalism in college.)

George Bush now admits that he was convicted of drunk driving. On September 4, 1976, a state trooper saw Bush's car swerve onto the shoulder, then back onto the road. (The Bush camp spin that he was driving too slowly is simply a lie.) Bush failed a road sobriety test and blew a .10 blood alcohol, plead guilty, and was fined and had his driver's license suspended Bush has brazenly and repeatedly lied to cover up and minimize this arrest

Bush said he paid a fine on the spot and never went to court. That is clearly a lie, as you can see on this court document showing his court hearing a month later. In fact, it was a man also in court for DUI the same day who revealed Bush' arrest. Here is exactly what Bush said in his press conference: Bush: "I told the guy I had been drinking and what do I need to do? And he said, "Here's the fine." I paid the fine and did my duty...." Reporter: "Governor, was there any legal proceeding of any kind? Or did you just -- " Bush: "No. I pled -- you know, I said I was wrong and I ..." Reporter: "In court? " Bush: No, there was no court. I went to the police station. I said, "I'm wrong."

In fact, Bush' running mate Dick Cheney now admits he had two drunk driving offenses in 1962 and 1963, giving the Bush -- Cheney ticket a new world record of 3 DUI's on one ticket. No wonder they seem so relaxed

Bush now justifies covering up his arrest "to be a good role model for his daughters." How does he figure that? Lying to cover up your crimes is not what I call being a good role model. Taking responsibility for your actions, admitting fault honestly and warning people of the consequences you suffered, THAT would be a good example.

http://www.realchange.org/bushjr.htm#quotesources

I didn't even mention the cocaine use, but we've all heard about that...

Well. What do you think of this? Does it all just make him more HUMAN? Is he really a great example for our country?

The main point isn't JUST that he DID these things, its that he LIED about them.
http://www.unsolvedmysteries.com/usm240843.html


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RichM Donating Member (1117 posts) Click to EMail RichM Click to send private message to RichM Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Jun-14-02, 04:05 PM (ET)
10. What you told us is significant & of course very sad -- but what you
did, & the viewpoint you expressed here, win my complete admiration.
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harrie Donating Member (1628 posts) Click to EMail harrie Click to send private message to harrie Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Jun-14-02, 04:07 PM (ET)
11. thanks, AWD ~ you did good!!!!!!!
As you've seen, DUers, having read the news, had been eagerly awaiting your account all day, so thanks for checking in! The outrageous oppression at OSU has inspired some keeper how-to threads about protesting, so good does come out of bad.

Sounds as tho' you did the best you could under the circumstances. Had you resisted arrest, you would've ended up outa there anyway.


Woman in audience: "Sir, ... I'm sure you'll get the vote of every thinking man and woman in America."
Adlai Stevenson II: "Thank you madame. But that won't be enough. You see, I need a majority."


Mr. Belvedere: "Mr. King, if more people just sat and thought, the world might not be in the stinking mess that it is." ( ~ Sitting Pretty 1948)


Image

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orwell (868 posts) Click to EMail orwell Click to send private message to orwell Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Jun-14-02, 04:07 PM (ET)
12. Ohio, Germany
Zeig Heil!

Just practicing for when the Blackhawks buzz my house.

Truly beyond the pale. How is turning your back disturbing the peace? And if you did break the law, why was the officer granted discretion in the arrest?

Constitutional Rights Abridged:

Freedom of Speech
Freedom of Assembly

Here is a little link for the Ohio State Police and the Administration at OSU (and of course the Bush MisAdministration

http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/constitution.table.html#amendments

Check out the first amedment. It's radical dude!

Maybe they all need to go back to school.

O

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cluedin Donating Member (2884 posts) Click to EMail cluedin Click to send private message to cluedin Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Jun-14-02, 04:07 PM (ET)
13. OMG - from one of own we hear
What the hell is going on in this country? I am ashamed that they would do this...

Thank you AWD for what you did.

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beware_of_god (1485 posts) Click to EMail beware_of_god Click to send private message to beware_of_god Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Jun-14-02, 04:08 PM (ET)
14. This event will crush Bush
All we have to do is harp on this event. It is very well documented and has shocked many people.

This single event will snowball into a huge issue for Bush and he will have to face the question, "why is he afraid to face his oppostion?"

Don't let go of this one: the Cowboy will have to put up or shut up.

Clinton was never a coward like Bush (W and HW) were and are.

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beware_of_god (1485 posts) Click to EMail beware_of_god Click to send private message to beware_of_god Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Jun-14-02, 04:09 PM (ET)
Reply to post #14
16. BUSH IS A COWARD
AFRAID TO FACE OPPOSITION - AFRAID!
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Tigerlily Donating Member (5490 posts) Click to EMail Tigerlily Click to send private message to Tigerlily Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Jun-14-02, 04:15 PM (ET)
Reply to post #16
23. I can't believe this pampered SOB
would deny these kids their diplomas. I can't believe this.
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Loralye (1 posts) Click to EMail Loralye Click to send private message to Loralye Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Jun-22-02, 10:35 PM (ET)
Reply to post #23
332. Well...

Loralye
The truth is doll, that kind of stuff happens all the time. At
my school the kids had planned to put marbles in the principal's
hand (one marble per kid, because everyone hated the witch)
and were threatened with having their diplomas taken
away. Only ten kids did it, and nothing happened to them.
The truth is, under fear of legal action, unless you commit
a crime, they cannot with-hold, take away, revoke, etc
your diploma. No High School, College or University in the U.S.,
public or private, is stupid enough to try it. Usually because
they have something to hide, and most of them do
(usually involving athletics). So all of there BSing
means nothing more than "If you do this we'll be pissed".

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cybervigilante (307 posts) Click to EMail cybervigilante Click to send private message to cybervigilante Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Jun-18-02, 06:19 PM (ET)
Reply to post #14
314. They're already trying to diminish it
By saying no one was arrested.

That's not the point. The minute the threat was made to arrest or suspend people, by a State official, it became a 1983 section violation of their civil rights under the Constitution.

That threat abrogated the right to free speech and peacable assembly of many who no doubt refrained from a demonstration that could put four years of hard work and an eighty thousand dollar investment at risk. It's a hard choice and they shouldn't have had to make it.

BTW, don't forget my OSU Nazi Poster at:

Image

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alg0912 Donating Member (400 posts) Click to EMail alg0912 Click to send private message to alg0912 Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Jun-14-02, 04:09 PM (ET)
17. Unbelieveable! A peaceful, non-verbal protest...
LAST EDITED ON Jun-14-02 AT 04:10 PM (ET)

...and you were treated this way? Threatened with arrest? For turning your body???

This goes WAY beyond absurd!!! Tell your story to anyone who will hear it! Tell the media - this just isn't AMERICAN! I hope some did choose to be arrested (I certainly understand why you chose not to). What can they be charged with? Assault with a deadly shoulder blade???

Please, tell someone in the media!

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deutsey (1314 posts) Click to EMail deutsey Click to send private message to deutsey Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Jun-14-02, 04:10 PM (ET)
Reply to post #17
19. Yes, send a letter to Ohio newspapers too

We are what we think.
All that we are arises with our thoughts.
With our thoughts we make the world.
The Buddha

“Each time a man stands up for an ideal, or acts to improve the lot of others, or strikes out against injustice, he sends forth a tiny ripple of hope, and crossing each other from a million different centers of energy and daring those ripples build a current which can sweep down the mightiest walls of oppression and resistance." –Robert F. Kennedy, South Africa, 1966

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snooper2 (340 posts) Click to EMail snooper2 Click to send private message to snooper2 Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Jun-14-02, 05:33 PM (ET)
Reply to post #19
84. EVERYONE CALL THIS NUMBER!
Ohio State University - University Relations
Lee Tashjian, Vice President
111 Bricker Hall
190 North Oval Mall
Columbus, OH 43210
(614) 292-4373

http://unvrel.ohio-state.edu/index.html

"In these awful days, George W. Bush has become the American Yasir Arafat, an empty, repetitive, shifty public personality who talks out of both sides of his mouth, with little or nothing to say from either of ’em. Oh, he’s still Israel’s man: maybe not quite as much as he was on Tuesday, but more than he was on Thursday, though by Sunday, who knows, he might be back in staunch-ally mode again, or conversely he might have a few encouraging words for the Arab side. He’s as purposeful as a wind-up toy boat with a bent rudder doing circular putt-putts in the bathtub."

by Nicholas von Hoffman, New York Observer


Quote of the Day: "In my state of the ... my State of the Union or state - my speech to the nation - whatever you want to call it, speech to the nation." – President Bush, Tuesday morning in Connecticut. (Thanks to CBS News Correspondent Mark Knoller traveling with the president.)

© MMII, CBS Worldwide Inc. All Rights Reserved.

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Squeech (351 posts) Click to EMail Squeech Click to send private message to Squeech Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Jun-14-02, 04:10 PM (ET)
18. Thank you for your reportage and your courage
Ohio has a tradition of doing bad things to college students-- consider Kent State 1970.
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playahata1 Donating Member (1553 posts) Click to EMail playahata1 Click to send private message to playahata1 Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Jun-14-02, 04:12 PM (ET)
20. Mr. Bush, need we remind you:
Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

Hell, you probably can't even read this! DUMBASS!

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orwell (868 posts) Click to EMail orwell Click to send private message to orwell Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Jun-14-02, 04:57 PM (ET)
Reply to post #20
63. Off the Cliff Notes
Of course he hasn't read the First Amendment. The question is, has anyone even 'briefed' him on it...

O

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LiberalFighter (47 posts) Click to EMail LiberalFighter Click to send private message to LiberalFighter Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Jun-15-02, 06:53 AM (ET)
Reply to post #63
205. Won't do any good
Won't do any good to brief that dumbass. How can he comprehend anything when he can't even talk right?
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cosmicdot (112 posts) Click to EMail cosmicdot Click to send private message to cosmicdot Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Jun-15-02, 11:33 AM (ET)
Reply to post #63
232. from first hand experience...
...from this contemporary mindset we'll call "George W Bush"...

...I heard it with my own ears: they don't care about Founding Principles...

...just providing themselves a carpet of gold...

When I first heard it come out of someone's mouth in 1996, it frightened more than anything else I had experienced. American Society had a class of people who have totally lost touch with what "America" is all about. They are real. They are corporate america's good ol'boys and girls.

I conjecture that the Bigger Picture is a major, high-stake poker game: old money vs. new money; old industry vs. new industry. This,imo, is above all the other "issues" in current world events.

What was it that has been said? "It's the economy, stupid." ?

Highly recommend: http://www.theyrule.net
It helps to reduce the number of players "ante-ing" up.

The stakes are quite high when such ante as the idea of nuclear strike is thrown in.

Bill Gates is not happy when his kingdom gets hurt in the market.

Poppy Bu$h can't do it alone, so he forms "alliances" under the name "The Carlyle Group", and it is expanding its investments at a hair-raising rate.

The Bilderbergers. Henry Kissinger.

The EU.

Saudi Arabia and the Saudi-American Business Council to which the Carlyle Group, Halliburton, Andersen, Accenture, etc.
belong.

http://www.us-saudi-business.org/members.htm

Review the list and see who sit on the Boards of Directors at They Rule.

...and, so much more...

Ken Morgan
Scottsdale, AZ
cosmicdot
1st time voter for George McGovern '72

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barbaraann Donating Member (619 posts) Click to EMail barbaraann Click to send private message to barbaraann Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Jun-14-02, 04:15 PM (ET)
21. Thank you for being so courageous.
We shall see if our network news anchors will match your courage tonight.
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myrna minx (279 posts) Click to EMail myrna%20minx Click to send private message to myrna%20minx Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Jun-14-02, 04:15 PM (ET)
22. Thank you AWD
We have been waiting to hear form you all day. Be proud of your accomplishment, I know I am.

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire
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jus_the_facts (287 posts) Click to EMail jus_the_facts Click to send private message to jus_the_facts Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Jun-14-02, 04:16 PM (ET)
24. DAMN AWD.............
I was looking forward to an upbeat report of how things went and this turned into something beyond belief! I am sorry it didn't go as planned, but like you say NEXT TIME!!!!

"This is the first age thats paid much attention to the future, which is ironic since we may not have one."(Arthur C. Clarke)

"We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the Courts, not to overthrow the constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert it."(Abraham Lincoln)

"Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth."(Albert Einstein)

"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approches this jewel. Nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined."(Patrick Henry)

"The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his."(General George Patton)
***************************************
***************************************
'em out!!!!! Or !!!

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revcarol Donating Member (3934 posts) Click to EMail revcarol Click to send private message to revcarol Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Jun-14-02, 04:26 PM (ET)
Reply to post #24
37. AWD, thank you. Outstanding!!
But will there be a NEXT TIME??

2, that's TWO, non-selected or captive audience appearances since 9/11. Will he come out of his cozy-little-world-where- everyone-loves-and-fawns-on-him anytime soon?? NOT LIKELY.
That's one reason why I was hoping this would be a success. I know everyone tried.

How about suing the Regents???They had to be sitting right up there on stage hearing and seeing everything!!Ask the ACLU.

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AP (3410 posts) Click to EMail AP Click to send private message to AP Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Jun-14-02, 04:16 PM (ET)
25. Breaching the Peace!
Man, that sort of political expression is totally protected by the constitution.
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PorcupinePhil (309 posts) Click to EMail PorcupinePhil Click to send private message to PorcupinePhil Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Jun-14-02, 06:02 PM (ET)
Reply to post #25
98. Really, it isn't...
you can't do whatever you want and then claim it's protected by the First Amendment. There are almost (not quite, but almost) as many restrictions on the First Amendment as there are on the Second Amendment.
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alg0912 Donating Member (400 posts) Click to EMail alg0912 Click to send private message to alg0912 Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Jun-14-02, 07:10 PM (ET)
Reply to post #98
124. But turning away and standing in silence?
Of course that's protected free speech! No one harmed by it!!!
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PorcupinePhil (309 posts) Click to EMail PorcupinePhil Click to send private message to PorcupinePhil Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Jun-14-02, 08:06 PM (ET)
Reply to post #124
147. See...
Debs v. US, 249 US 211 and Schenck v US, 249 US 47. This is what you'll be facing in a legal challenge...I'm not saying it's RIGHT, but that's the case law.
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Star Donating Member (343 posts) Click to EMail Star Click to send private message to Star Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Jun-14-02, 08:25 PM (ET)
Reply to post #147
149. Tell me, what would have happened if the protesters had
just walked out after about 5 or 10 minutes of the Shrub's speech? You can't be expelled and arrested for leaving, but if enough people just get up and walk out in the middle of his speech, that's making a statement.

Proud Member of the Grassy Knoll Society

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PorcupinePhil (309 posts) Click to EMail PorcupinePhil Click to send private message to PorcupinePhil Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Jun-14-02, 08:29 PM (ET)
Reply to post #149
151. THAT....
would have to go to trial. The State would probably argue that it IS a protest, taking place at the same time as another function, so it wouldn't be protected.

The Plaintiffs might argue that requiring them to stay would be a violation of the 13th amendment. I don't know how the courts would rule on this, it's VERY close to the edge, and probably would hinge on the actual facts of the case, disruption caused, et cetera.

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orwell (868 posts) Click to EMail orwell Click to send private message to orwell Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Jun-14-02, 09:12 PM (ET)
Reply to post #147
158. Case Study
http://www.mclu.org/thenandnow.htm

"Debs v. United States, 249 U.S. 211 (1919)
Debs made two public speeches promoting socialism and denouncing capitalism and World War I. He was convicted under the Espionage Act. The court held that this political speech denouncing the prevalent public policy and advocating an alternative could be made criminal because potential draftees could hear the speech and be moved to resist the draft, thus satisfying the "clear and present danger" test.


Schenck v. United States, 249 U.S. 47 (1919)
The Espionage Act of 1917 made it a crime to cause insubordination in the military or to frustrate military recruitment. Schenck published a pamphlet critical of the Conscription Act and encouraging disobedience of it. The Court held the law constitutional, stating that the freedom of speech is not absolute, i.e., you cannot shout "fire" in a crowded theater. In this case the Court held that there must be a "clear and present danger" that the speech would lead to action. So, ironically, only effective speech was curbed.


I am not in the legal profession, but a cursory examination of these two cases does not seem to support the action taken today at OSU. Turning your back as a sign of protest to a man, even if he is the pResident, is not the same as "causing insubordination in the military," which seems more clearly seditious, especially in a time of war—even though war has not been declared by Congress in this case.

This seems pretty clear as a infringement on a silent non-disruptive protest aimed at the pResident himself. If the pResident's job performance is off limits to dissent, free political speech seems clearly threatened. If the protestors threatened the pResident in any way or disrupted the ability for those in attendance to hear the pResident's words, that obviously is a different matter.

I'm sorry but these two cases do not seem to apply at all. Thanks for the information however.

O

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PorcupinePhil (309 posts) Click to EMail PorcupinePhil Click to send private message to PorcupinePhil Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Jun-14-02, 09:39 PM (ET)
Reply to post #158
164. Look at what was actually done...
In one case, a speech was given by a Socialist Presidential Candidate, to MEMBERS OF HIS OWN PARTY. He wasn't standing outside of a recruiting station, he was in a rented hall that his party rented, addressing the party faithful. Still, his conviction was upheld, supposedly upon the idea that a draft-eligible person might have wandered in and been affected.

In Schenck, the important thing is that the First is not absolute...this opened the door for time, place, and forum restrictions, which is EXACTLY the basis of the Admin's actions today (I assume).

Please keep in mind...cases "on the four corners" are very, VERY rare.

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0rganism Donating Member (2260 posts) Click to EMail 0rganism Click to send private message to 0rganism Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Jun-14-02, 10:35 PM (ET)
Reply to post #164
175. The question is whether the act of standing and turning is harmful
In Debs, the speech was deemed harmful because it could have caused conscripts to refuse the draft. i.e., Debs was actively advocating a crime.

In Schenck, the speech was deemed harmful due to its locale, as you say, but the material content must be something which could actually offend to such a degree as cause bodily harm.

"The question in every case is whether the words used are used in such circumstances and are of such a nature as to create a clear and present danger that they will bring about the substantive evils that Congress has a right to prevent."

One would have to argue both that standing and turning constituted such speech as could be regulated by congress, and that the person who gave the announcement had sufficient authority to do so. This also raises a question of the police presence, under whose authority the state police attended and detained dissenters.

We put the USA in Usama!http://www.worldwar3report.com


And we're marching to Bastille DayMy blood is bruised and borrowed.
La guillotine will claim her bloody prizeYou thieving bastards.
Sing, o choirs of cacophony You have turned my blood cold and bitter,
The king has kneeled, to let his kingdom rise Beat my compassion black and blue.
Rush, Bastille DayTool, Ticks And Leeches

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kos (1 posts) Click to EMail kos Click to send private message to kos