13||0|0 0|0|Ontario won%27t enforce gun registry law|Township75||08:41:35|06/05/2003|[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON Jun-05-03 AT 08:42 AM (ET)[/font][p]%5Bi%5DOntario is refusing to prosecute anyone who fails to register a rifle or shotgun because it%27s a dumb law%2C Attorney-General Norm Sterling said yesterday.%0D%0A%0D%0AOntario joins Nova Scotia and three Western provinces in refusing to have anything to do with the federal gun registration law that so far has cost more than %241 billion.%5B%2Fi%5D%0D%0A%0D%0ASNIP%0D%0A%0D%0A%5Bi%5D%22They should take the responsibility for a badly flawed piece of legislation%2C which really persecutes the wrong people%2C innocent people%2C good people who want to use long firearms for hunting and recreational use. It is a piece of legislation which is totally misdirected%2C%22 Sterling said.%0D%0A%0D%0AThe attorney-general said the federal gun registration law holds out %22the false promise that this registry is going to somehow enhance our ability to catch criminals.%22 %5B%2Fi%5D%0D%0A%0D%0ASNIP%0D%0A%5Bi%5DOriginally tagged at %242 million%2C the registry%27s costs could surpass %241 billion by 2005%2C the federal auditor-general said in December.%5B%2Fi%5D%0D%0A%0D%0ATHe entire article is here%3A%0D%0Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.thestar.com%2FNASApp%2Fcs%2FContentServer%3Fpagename%3Dthestar%2FLayout%2FArticle_Type1%26c%3DArticle%26cid%3D1052251727727%26call_pageid%3D968332188774%26col%3D%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A| 1|1|Wow%2C common sense in govenment%2C|Landfeldmesser||06:23:03|06/06/2003|isnt that refreshing. And from Canada yet%21|0 10|2|funny you should say that|iverglas||04:27:41|06/08/2003|Not funny ha ha though. Funny%2C how odd.%0D%0A%0D%0AThe government in question%2C the right-wing Conservative government of Ontario%2C got elected on an agenda it called %22The Common Sense Revolution%22.%0D%0A%0D%0AWhat that meant was%3A%0D%0A%0D%0A- hospital closures and massive layoffs of health care personnel and cuts to health funding%2C resulting in scarcity of some services%0D%0A- failure to train personnel needed for health care services%0D%0A- years of conflict with teachers and teacher unions%2C including compelling teachers to work unpaid %22volunteer%22 time%2C and takeovers of school boards which refused to implement the Tory financial agenda%0D%0A- slashed welfare payments%2C resulting %28in tandem with gutted rent review rules%29 in soaring homelessness and assorted other personal and social problems%0D%0A- rollbacks of labour rights like overtime pay%0D%0A- miscellaneous cuts to government services%2C like the ones to environmental health services that contributed to the deaths of several people in a small Ontario town from E. Coli in the water supply%0D%0A- the shooting death of a young First Nations activist in a stand-off with police during an occupation of disputed land%2C as a result of an order believed to have come directly from the Premier%27s mouth %28that Premier has resigned%2C leaving much speculation about many things%2C including his odd relationship with a student during the couple of years he taught high school%2C and his estranged wife%27s apparently intimate familiarity with the inside of the local small-town battered women%27s shelter ...%29%0D%0A%0D%0AAnd oh yeah%2C massive tax cuts for the wealthy.%0D%0A%0D%0AFunny that it should be this self-same vicious%2C anti-human government that thinks maybe it won%27t enforce the law of the land.%0D%0A%0D%0AFunny that somebody hereabouts wouldn%27t notice the strange coincidences.%0D%0A%0D%0ADo I laugh now%3F|1 11|3|Funny how%2C when you rely on someone else to take care of you%2C |Landfeldmesser||05:54:07|06/08/2003|its never quite what you had in mind once they do. |10 12|4|lord knows what that meant|iverglas||19:44:31|06/08/2003|Or what relevance it had to anything I said. Is it just me who so often wonders these things%3F%0D%0A%0D%0ACan I ask something else%3F Do you actually agree that a law that %5Bu%5Drequires individuals to register the firearms they possess%5B%2Fu%5D qualifies as %22persecution%22%3F%3F - as the Minister described it.%0D%0A%0D%0AIf so%2C get ready for a bunch of really annoying people to come claiming Convention refugee status in the US.%0D%0A%0D%0AI did get a chuckle out of old Norm saying this was a %22dumb%22 law%2C though. A very attorney-general-ish analysis. So I had fun by asking google to find me uses of the word in the proceedings of the Ontario legislature%3A %5Blink%3Awww.google.ca%2Fsearch%3Fhl%3Den%26ie%3DISO-8859-1%26q%3D%2Bsite%253Awww.ontla.on.ca%2Bdumb%26meta%3Dcr%253DcountryCA%7C316%5D of them. And in the prevailing spirit of %5Bi%5Dnon sequitur%5B%2Fi%5D%2C I offer one for your amusement.%0D%0A%0D%0AThe Ontario Tories have adopted the peculiar US habit of calling legislation by funny names%2C like the %22Patriot Act%22. On the subject of the Local Control of Public Libraries Act%2C 1997%2C which I suppose was really the take-money-away-from-libraries law%2C one of my own favourite elected representatives %28Peter Kormos%2C a maverick member of my own party%29 had this to say to the responsible Cabinet Minister%3A%0D%0A%0D%0A%5Bblockquote%5D%5Bb%5DMrs Margaret Marland %28Mississauga South%29%5B%2Fb%5D%3A ... This act will strengthen and safeguard our library system and will help ensure that Ontario%27s libraries continue to play a central role in the lives of Ontarians.%0D%0A%0D%0A%5Bb%5DMr Peter Kormos %28Welland-Thorold%29%5B%2Fb%5D%3A It%27s going to cripple them%2C Marilyn. Get with it. Smarten up. What a dumb and stupid thing to say.%0D%0A%0D%0A %5Bb%5DMrs Margaret Marland %28Mississauga South%29%5B%2Fb%5D%3A Mr Speaker%2C on a point of order%3A I would ask you to ask the member for Welland-Thorold to withdraw his comment about the minister%27s statement and the minister.%0D%0A%0D%0A %5Bb%5DThe Speaker %28Hon Chris Stockwell%29%5B%2Fb%5D%3A Member for Mississauga South%2C I need to know what it is you%27re asking the member to withdraw. Since I didn%27t hear it -- it%27s got to be on the record.%0D%0A%0D%0A %5Bb%5DMrs Marland%5B%2Fb%5D%3A I don%27t believe the derogatory term %22dumb%22 is parliamentary language.%0D%0A%0D%0A %5Bb%5DThe Speaker%5B%2Fb%5D%3A I didn%27t hear how he used it or the context etc. I will give the member for Welland-Thorold an opportunity%2C if he wants to withdraw %22dumb.%22%0D%0A%0D%0A %5Bb%5DMr Kormos%5B%2Fb%5D%3A I withdraw%2C and I maintain %22stupid.%22%0D%0A%0D%0A %5Bb%5DThe Speaker%5B%2Fb%5D%3A Ministry statements%3F%0D%0A%0D%0A PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION%0D%0A%0D%0A %5Bb%5DHon Al Palladini %28Minister of Transportation%29%5B%2Fb%5D %28%5Bi%5Dand%2C I kid you not%2C former used-car salesman%5B%2Fi%5D%29%3A I rise today to tell the House how the government is eliminating duplication -- %0D%0A%0D%0A %5Bi%5DInterjection%5B%2Fi%5D%3A I like the suit%2C Al -- a three-piece suit.%0D%0A%0D%0A %5Bi%5DInterjections.%5B%2Fi%5D%0D%0A%0D%0A %5Bb%5DThe Speaker %28Hon Chris Stockwell%29%5B%2Fb%5D%3A Okay%2C the wardrobe jokes are finished. Minister of Transportation.%5B%2Fblockquote%5D%0D%0A%0D%0A.%0D%0A%0D%0ADon%27t you guys just wish you%27d stuck with the parliamentary tradition%3F%21|11 13|5|Well...|Landfeldmesser||17:44:52|06/09/2003|%5Bi%5DCan I ask something else%3F Do you actually agree that a law that requires individuals to register the firearms they possess qualifies as %22persecution%22%3F%3F - as the Minister described it.%5B%2Fi%5D%0D%0A%0D%0ANo surprises here%2C yes%2C to me it is%2C to you%2C maybe its not. Then again%2C did the disarming of the jews%2C gypsies%2C and others the Nazis didnt like lead to their %22persecution%22%3F I%27m sure it helped.%0D%0A%0D%0A%5Bi%5DIf so%2C get ready for a bunch of really annoying people to come claiming Convention refugee status in the US.%5B%2Fi%5D%0D%0AYou mean like all the people seeking better health care%2C than your government provides who run down here%3F %0D%0A%0D%0A|12 2|1|Who cares about Ontario%2C eh%3F|slackmaster||10:54:54|06/06/2003|%3Csarcasm%3E%0D%0A%0D%0ATiny population. Only a few whores and hockey players live there.%0D%0A%0D%0A%3C%2Fsarcasm%3E|0 3|1|I%27m just happy Canada sees the light and feels...|Township75||13:55:09|06/06/2003|it is better to spend 1 billion %24s on a worthless registry than to use it on healthcare. %0D%0ASarcasm off.|0 4|1|Thank Canada for dispelling calls to register guns in the US|NickB79||19:48:14|06/06/2003|Can anyone who is in favor of gun registration in the US honestly hope it would work after seeing this enormous F-up up north%3F What%27s the population of Canada%2C 30-40 million%3F Vs. 275 million in the US. It has cost Canada %241 billion so far and they haven%27t even gotten half the guns registered%2C and Canada has far%2C far fewer guns than the US. And we thought it cost a lot to rebuild Iraq......|0 5|2|No cost is too high|mandan||20:51:07|06/06/2003|when it comes to public safety.|4 6|3|I bet that%27s your philosophy when it comes to buying a car too%2C huh %2A|Township75||21:02:13|06/06/2003|%2A|5 7|3|The majority of Americans support RKBA because the government|jody||21:05:36|06/06/2003| is not obligated to protect the individual.%0D%0A%0D%0AYou say %22No cost is too high when it comes to public safety.%22 I agree and the only efficient and effective way for individuals to defend themself and property is by bearing arms.%0D%0A%0D%0AStarting before the Constitution and Bill of Rights were written.%0D%0A%0D%0A%5Bfont color%3D%22%230000FF%22%5D%22I. That all men are born equally free and independent%2C and have certain natural%2C inherent and inalienable rights%2C %0D%0Aamongst which are%2C the enjoying and defending life and liberty%2C acquiring%2C possessing and protecting property%2C%22%0D%0A%5Bfont color%3D%22%23FF3300%22%5D%22XIII. That the people have a right to bear arms for the defence of themselves and the state%3B%22 %5Bfont color%3D%22%230000FF%22%5D%5Blink%3Awww.yale.edu%2Flawweb%2Favalon%2Fstates%2Fpa08.htm%7C%28Pa Constitution%2C 28 Sept. 1776%29%5D%0D%0A%0D%0A%5Bfont color%3D%22%23000000%22%5D%5Blink%3Awww1.law.ucla.edu%2F%7Evolokh%2Fbeararms%2Fstatecon.htm%7CToday 28 states recognize an individual%92s %93Right to Keep and Bear Arms%94 %28RKBA%29 for defense of self and state%5D%3A AL%2C AR%2C CO%2C CT%2C DE%2C FL%2C IN%2C KY%2C MI%2C MS%2C MO%2C MT%2C NE%2C NV%2C NH%2C NM%2C ND%2C OK%2C OR%2C PA%2C SD%2C TX%2C UT%2C VT%2C WA%2C WV%2C WI%2C WY%0D%0A%0D%0AFive states recognize an individual%92s RKBA for the %93common defense%94%3A AR%2C KS%2C MA%2C OH%2C TN. %0D%0A%0D%0AEleven states say RKBA shall not be infringed%94%3A AK%2C GA%2C HI%2C ID%2C IL%2C LA%2C ME%2C NC%2C RI%2C SC%2C VA.%0D%0A%0D%0ASix states have no RKBA provision%3A CA%2C IA%2C MD%2C MN%2C NJ%2C NY.%0D%0A%0D%0ANINTH AMENDMENT%3A %93The enumeration in the Constitution%2C of certain rights%2C shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people%94%0D%0A|5 8|3|Would you care to demonstrate...|naptha||21:07:54|06/06/2003|that the billion dollars Canada has spent on a failed registry has increased public safety one whit%3F|5 9|3|I disagree and here%27s why|slackmaster||11:04:09|06/07/2003|[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON Jun-07-03 AT 11:14 AM (ET)[/font][p]In matters of public money%2C government is a business. Every government that taxes its citizens bears a heavy responsibility to make efficient and proper use of public funds.%0D%0A%0D%0AExpenditures directed toward public safety must pass the same standards of accountability as any other spending. Whether you are talking about maintaining roads%2C keeping harbors safe%2C operating an air traffic control system%2C or enforcing laws it comes down to the same kind of analysis%3A Return On Investment %28ROI%29 or bang for the buck. A dispassionate analysis must ultimately distill down to how much each life saved costs the public.%0D%0A%0D%0AHow many lives have been saved by spending a billion dollars on a gun registry that isn%27t even up and running yet%3F Probably zero or very close to zero. We as auditors of government spending need to look at it from this perspective%3A We %28speaking on behalf of Canadians%29 blew a billion dollars on something that is doing little or no good. How else could that billion have been spent%3F Is the number of lives saved by this gun registry more or less than could have been saved by providing free swimming lessons to every Canadian child%2C or on an ad campaign to educate people about the dangers of crossing railroad tracks%3F%0D%0A%0D%0ASaying %22no cost is too high%22 is a nice way of avoiding the real issues. What if it cost a billion dollars to save one life%3F 10 billion%3F The whole GDP of your nation%3F You have to draw the line somewhere. There are better ways of spending that kind of money. Ways that improve the health and welfare or even save the lives of a lot more people.%0D%0A%0D%0A%28edited fer speling%29|5