27||0|0
0|0|Surprise%2C Mom%3A I%27m Anti-Abortion|bleedingheart||12:50:30|03/30/2003|This article makes me realize how young women today are so far out of touch.%0D%0A%0D%0Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F2003%2F03%2F30%2Ffashion%2F30GAP.html%0D%0A%0D%0AThe right of Choice doesn%27t mean that you have to have an abortion..it just makes the procedure safe and legal.  Hell..what a great world if all babies were wanted...but that is not the case.  
1|1|Exactly|Leanmc||13:07:12|03/30/2003|Make abortion illegal and do you stop abortions%3F No. All you do is make abortions unsafe and controlled by criminals. %0D%0A%0D%0ARU-486 could be smuggled into the USA and sold illegally just like heroin. And it wouldn%27t be as effective or as safe as when used in a clinic%2C but desperate people do desperate things. Women don%27t leave babies in trash cans because abortion is legal%2C and they won%27t stop doing it just because abortion is illegal %28its illegal to put a baby in a trashcan to die anyway%29.%0D%0A%0D%0AIf abortion is murder%2C then so are birth control pills and emergency contraception. Add those to RU-486%2C and drug dealers just got a %2Ahuge%2A new market. That%27s simply not good public policy.|0
2|1|Someting%27s wrong here . . .|blondeatlast||13:27:14|03/30/2003|why is this on a FASHION page%3F%3F%3F%0D%0A%0D%0ASheesh.|0
5|2|Yeah...ain%27t that grand..its now lumped in with Fashion|bleedingheart||14:36:07|03/30/2003|What makes me sick is that some of these girls are for fetal rights versus their own rights...%0D%0A%0D%0AWhile I am all for having a baby if that is what you want to do%2C I have a problem with brainwashing young women to believe that a fetus has more rights than they do... basically treating women like breeding vessels...%0D%0A|2
3|1|It%27s always been about the %22shame%22|SoCalDem||14:11:11|03/30/2003|The growing belly on a %22single%22 girl was the scarlet letter that PROVED she was a tramp..%0D%0A%0D%0A%22Nice%22 girls did not %22do those things%22.. It was all about the shame%2C never the baby.. The %22coathanger Coalition%22 doesn%27t give a crap about the baby or the well-being of the %22vessel%22.. They only care about being able to shame the girls%2Fwomen into a marriage of servitude..%0D%0A%0D%0AOf course%2C when the %22good%22 girls found themselves %22in trouble%22 %2C they always had the means to have an emergency %22appendectomy%22 or if it was too late for that%2C a %22shopping trip in Europe%22 or a %22semester abroad%22..%0D%0A%0D%0AThe %22poor%22 or %22wrong side of town%22 girls were the ones who were left to the shabby motels or a lifetime of shame for having an %22illegitimate%22 baby.. They were the ones in a double bind.. Have an abortion%2C and risk future fertility or their life or have the baby and risk a lifetime of snickering behind their backs and being treated as sinful and loose%3B those were the choices..%0D%0A%0D%0AAbortion is and always has been an issue of class%2C more than anything else.. The poor girls were often taken advantage of twice.. The rich boys felt they could have their way with them because they were %22less than%22 his station in life.. The girls often bought into this %2C thinking that a rich boy would love her and marry her %2C and elevate her lifestyle.. %0D%0A%0D%0AEven today%2C poor women are still ini a bind.. If they keep their babies%2C they are treated as %22leeches%22 on society and if they get an abortion%2C they are %22babykillers%22..%0D%0A%0D%0AThe solution %2C according to the coathanger coalition%2C is to give up those white babies to the infertile wealthy people who %22need%22 babies.. For the mixed race or ethnic babies%2C the C.C. would probably hope that they would just %22go back where they came from and quit using THEIR tax dollars%22%2C but they are conflicted on the abortion thing..%0D%0A%0D%0ASafe and affordable abortion takes all the %22fun%22 out of it for the fundies.. If they cannot harrass and shame the %22wanton%22 women%2C whatever would they do%3F%3F%0D%0A%0D%0AThe lack of shame is probably the hardest thing for them to accept.. In their narrow little world%2C the only people who should be allowed to procreate%2C are the %22Ozzie %26 Harriet%22%2C%22Father Knows Best%22 crowd..%0D%0A%0D%0AAll these single people procreating%2C are just too befuddling to them%2C and they feel the overpowering need to control them..%0D%0A%0D%0A|0
4|2|you basically summed up how I feel about it|bleedingheart||14:34:39|03/30/2003|n%2Ft|3
6|1|I wonder |Iris||15:00:34|03/30/2003|how many of these girls will stay %22pro-life.%22  I mean in high school and even to some degree in college%2C people still seem to judge things in black and white.%0D%0A%0D%0AThe %22it%27s not about the rights of the woman%2C but the rights of the fetus%22 is indeed scarey%2C but perhaps with some experience and maturity%2C these girls will see how misguided this really is. %0D%0A%0D%0AI work with college-aged students and it is always baffling to me that they see a child as a %22mistake%22 and that the person making the mistake should be %22mature enough%22 to take responsibility for that mistake%2C which usually does not mean having the child and giving her up for adoption%2C but actually spending the rest of one%27s life and the entirety of the child%27s life %22paying for the mistake.%22  How can anyone think this sort of %22good enough%22 parenting is a good thing for a child%3F  Rights of the fetus%2C indeed.%0D%0A|0
7|2|You touched on an important point|bleedingheart||15:39:43|03/30/2003|Raising a child should be a positive endeavor...not about paying for a mistake... and that type of reasoning is why so many children are neglected and uncared for in this world.  |6
8|3|yes|Iris||19:46:00|03/30/2003|and although it%27s probably not nice of me to think of these young women as silly little girls%2C but I seriously doubt they will ever have much impact with reasoning skills like that.  If they ever wake up to all the implications that arise from their %22fetus rights%22 philsophy%2C they will feel quite betrayed and outraged.%0D%0A%0D%0AWhen you suggest women are only vessels for babies to grow in%2C you start to encounter all sorts of problems.  Is a father to be left alone with 5 or 6 children because the 7th or 8th child proved to be too much for the mother%27s body%2C but%2C of course%2C should take precedence over the mother%27s life%3F  I don%27t know many men you would care for that arrangement in the long run.%0D%0A%0D%0AMy pro-choice stance was solidifed when I read a Catholic marriage guide that said if a woman is going to die giving birth%2C that%27s just her fate as a childbearer.  I was 23.|7
9|4|well I think they are pretty silly|bleedingheart||23:13:46|03/30/2003|and very immature not to see both sides of the coin.  I just wonder how their mothers raised them%3F  |8
10|5|Actually|Leanmc||23:41:37|03/30/2003|Not being able to see two sides of the coin is typical 16 year old thinking. To adolescents%2C the world %2Ais%2A black and white.  Its part of cognitive development%2C like how infants think someone disappears when they duck behind a corner. Some 16 year olds have already moved past this stage%2C but it takes most people longer. It is a form of %22immaturity%22%2C but it is developmentally appropriate for a 16 year old and probably doesn%27t have anything to do with how she was raised. Its likely that as she matures %28ie gets older%29 she%27ll come to another viewpoint. |9
11|6|that%27s kind of what I was getting at|Iris||07:37:00|03/31/2003|Unfortunately%2C it seems to be a trend in our society to stay in the 16 yr. old %22black and white%22 phase.%0D%0A%0D%0AThere%27s also the irony that the mothers of these girls appear to be pro-choice%2C which opens some other cans of worms regarding rebellion%2C becoming your own person%2C etc.  I would say my mother is pro-life but if my grandmothers and even great-grandmothers were around%2C they would probably be more pro-choice.  |10
13|4|As a Man....|Radicalliberal||22:56:49|04/02/2003|I admit you woman get a pretty shitty deal when it comes to abortion rights. I realize that this has been said a thousand time but it is so true%3A If this was a Men%27s issue there would be no debate about it. One thing also I feel strongly about is it seems like %28some of%29 these young woman have not yet developed the ability to see the world as it really is%2C only what the right-wing has made it out to be. In short%2C I see abortion laws as just another way to produce %22slavery%22 for Women. |8
12|1|Would the school have allowed a pro-choice article%3F|goddess40||08:17:46|03/31/2003|I really doubt it.|0
14|1|These are the same kind of people|DrGonzoLives||09:13:22|04/03/2003|who think that if burning a flag is legal%2C they %2Ahave%2A to go burn a flag. |0
15|1|Pro-life liberal|ZinnFan||19:58:55|04/07/2003|Just to lay my cards on the table%2C I%27m a pro-life Catholic%2C but I think the abortion debate is being framed by the wrong people. There are men and women of tremendous compassion and good conscience on both sides of the issue%2C and it ought to be those persons who forge policy. %0D%0A%0D%0AI think that the best thing to do would be to make abortions as rare as possible by at the very least providing comprehensive sex education%2C universal pre- and neo-natal health care%2C have insurance cover birth control %28why not%3F They already cover Viagra%29%2C and by vastly expanding access to adoption options. No woman should have to choose between sliding into poverty and having an abortion. %0D%0A%0D%0AMan%2C and somebody%27s going to have to tell Republicans that they%27ve got to start giving a damn about human beings once they%27re out of the womb%2C because their Social Darwinist free market-worship isn%27t going to fly anymore. If pro-lifers want less abortion%2C %28like me%29 then we%27re all going to have to compromise and come up with some alternatives to %22you%27re on your own.%22|0
16|2|welcome|obeah||20:47:51|04/07/2003|There are a few of us pro-lifers floating around here%2C so you%27re not completely alone.  %3A%29%0D%0A%0D%0AAnd I agree with everything you said %28except the Catholic part%3B I%27m an atheist%29.|15
17|2|well-stated|Iris||18:29:32|04/08/2003|I consider myself strongly pro-choice %28and that%27s why I%27m NOT Catholic anymore%29%2C but you%27ve basically expressed my feelings about the subject%2C particularly the %22choose between sliding into proverty and having an abortion.%22  That pretty much expresses it in a nutshell.%0D%0A%0D%0AI am much less likely to assume who might be pro-life and pro-choice than I was when I was younger.  That matters less to me now than how they fell about the very things you mentioned.|15
18|2|Good thoughts%2C but|DrGonzoLives||09:45:55|04/09/2003|all those solutions you speak of cost money that could be going to fuel unending war in the Middle East.  Don%27t expect Republicans to do anything about that.  And%2C frankly%2C there are too many DLC Democrats who think the same way for me to ever have hope that it will happen.|15
20|3|To Dr. Gonzo|ZinnFan||19:34:45|04/09/2003|Well%2C that%27s why we have to organize. I%27m 23 years old. I%27ve been going to protests since I was 4. I work for a public interest non-profit and I talk to community leaders%2C the media%2C and elected officials as part of my job. I make my own pamphlets and distribute them guerrila style wherever and whenever I can. I%27m building a network of important people so that when the time is right%2C I can take the opportunity to do something more about the problems of the world than just b%2A%2Ach about them pointlessly. I think it%27s about time that everyone else start doing the same thing. This is%2C truly%2C a matter of life and death.%0D%0A%0D%0AYou want to know what I want%3F And here I%27m getting off-topic%2C but bear with me%2C I want discipline in our protest movements. I want 100%2C000 people in the streets demonstrating peacefully with everyone wearing a T-shirt that says LIBERTY or FREEDOM. I want somebody to put on a shirt and tie and speak calmly and passionately at a podium without sloganeering or using ad hominem attacks. Because if things are truly as bad as we think they are%2C those protestors are going to be arrested. And when Ma and Pa Johnson in Iowa open the paper and see FREEDOM and LIBERTY in chains%2C when they see %22normal%22-looking people going to prison for their beliefs%2C no amount of media spin can stop the coming reforms. That%27s when the current situation will become absolutely intolerable to the majority of anxious%2C workaday middle Americans. That%27s the vision of the future I%27m working for.|18
19|1|I used to teach high school English|eyesroll||13:20:22|04/09/2003|in Racine%2C WI%2C a city that%27s blessed with all of the problems a larger city has %28poverty%2C violence%2C etc.%29 but none of the hope. %28I left a few years ago.%29 I had a student load of rougly 150 kids%2C and at least 10 of them were pregnant or had kids.%0D%0A%0D%0AYou wouldn%27t BELIEVE the number of WWJD maternity t-shirts I saw. I%27m not a Christian%2C but I understand that many reasonable pro-life Christians believe that if an unmarried%2C teenage girl gets pregnant it is a sin%2C but she shouldn%27t compound it with another sin. OK. %0D%0A%0D%0ABut I also received a persuasive essay %28to be written on the topic of their choice%29 about why birth control is immoral -- from a pregnant girl who%2C from the essay%2C was clearly still sleeping with the boyfriend%21 %28Some of these kids had a big case of TMI.%29 So pre-marital sex is OK but birth control is not%3F What church did she belong to%3F %0D%0A%0D%0AYou%27re right -- young women today are out of touch. I%27m just 10 years out of high school%2C but at least when I went%2C my pro-life peers were at least more consistent -- they were either anti-abortion%2C anti-Gulf-war%2C anti-death-penalty or at least they actually practiced all of the teachings of their churches%2C not just the ones they liked.|0
21|2|what%27s TMI%3F|Iris||20:29:50|04/09/2003|%3F|19
23|3|TMI|eyesroll||09:18:19|04/10/2003|%3D too much information.%0D%0AAs in%2C sharing waaayyy too much personal information with me %28and expecting me to reciprocate%29.|21
22|1|Could you not generalize please%3F|UnapologeticLiberal||21:16:48|04/09/2003|I%27m a young woman and I am pro-choice and don%27t think I am out of touch. At least I try not to be...I grew up upper-middle class but I am trying hard to read about and talk to people of all different backgrounds in order to open my eyes as much as possible.|0
24|2|You are quite right|eyesroll||09:27:38|04/10/2003|I was generalizing in my above statement%3B I apologize.%0D%0A%0D%0AI%27m glad you%27re trying to expand your horizions. Admittedly%2C it took college for me to do that. I grew up in a moderate-Democratic family in an upper-middle-class suburb of Chicago%2C where I was quite sheltered. I attended a small Wisconsin liberal-arts college%2C where there was a bit more religious%2C cultural%2C racial%2C political%2C sexual and especially economic diveristy. I shifted a lot further to the left on many issues in school%2C but perhaps with a bit of a libertarian bent I wouldn%27t have expected. %0D%0A%0D%0ABut%2C I fear a lot of younger people are just accepting what their parents%2C clergy or the media tell them as the unquestionable truth -- I saw that when I was teaching%2C for sure. Not everyone%2C but a lot. |22
25|1|Religious group pro-choice%21 |Shug||00:03:44|05/05/2003|I am very strongly pro-choice%2C and that article was appalling%21 I found a very interesting site that you should check out...%0D%0A%5Bhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.rcrc.org%2Fcurrent%2FRoe%2520Religious%2520Response.htm%5D%0D%0AThis site is by a religious group that uses the Bible as proof that abortions aren%27t a sin%21 It%27s very interesting because I was under the assumption that all religious groups were against abortion. |0
26|1|a couple facts...|cap||11:13:26|05/05/2003|each contraceptive method is not 100%25 successful.  There are a certain number of failures that will lead to pregnancy that are not the couple%27s fault.  The technology is just not there.  So there will always be a number of unwanted children.%0D%0A%0D%0AAlso%2C foster care is child abuse.  Putting your kid up for foster care is allowing adults to receive money from the state.  That%27s all the kid is to them...  They will not take the time to mold that child into an adult.  It%27s all about money.%0D%0A%0D%0ASpeaking about money -- there is no funding these days for good foster care.  The states are cutting back funding.  These innocent children are living truly horrible lives.%0D%0A%0D%0AFinally%2C how can you expect a single mother to work 60 hours a week to pay the rent and have time to bring up a child.%0D%0A%0D%0AThis can happen to you and your friends.  These are just issues for minorities to face.  |0
27|2|Horse shit%21%21%21|avtho||20:34:29|05/06/2003|Foster parents of which we were are the way they are because of the HHS or whatever State dept recruits them%2C teaches them and pays them. By not supporting the good foster parents of which there are many%2C they tended to drop out of the system and then each time the pool of good parents grows smaller until all that are left are the dregs. The pay is poor%2C never enough to really care for the kids like you would your own unless you pour your own money into it. Which was no problem for us%2C we put so much of our own money into it we could claim some of the kids as dependents on our tax return.%0D%0A%0D%0AComments like yours don%27t help when it comes to recruiting new foster parents.%0D%0A|26