Top cleric to Arafat: Make peace or quit

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jem note (4219 posts) Dec-19-02, 11:37 PM (ET) Top cleric to Arafat: Make peace or quit from the AP: JERUSALEM--The highest-ranking Roman Catholic clergyman in the Holy Land said Wednesday that Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat should step down if he is unable to make peace with Israel, and urged worshippers blocked from traveling on Christmas Eve to pray at Israeli army checkpoints. Latin Patriarch Michel Sabbah said he believes the principal responsibility for peace rests with Israel. But he took a pointed swipe at the Palestinian Authority for failing to end 26 months of bloodshed that has claimed nearly 2,700 lives, mostly Palestinians. ''If the present leaders do not succeed in making peace, there is only one solution: open the way to other leaders,'' Sabbah said in an annual Christmas message. ''If Arafat is unable to make peace, of course, let him also give a place to another.'' ...... Although polls show Arafat, 73, remains the single most popular Palestinian leader, his waning mystique has taken a blow in recent weeks as senior Palestinians have questioned the uprising and the Palestinian leadership. The most high-profile criticism has come from Arafat deputy Mahmoud Abbas, widely known as Abu Mazen, who in recent public statements has called the armed confrontation with Israel a mistake. Sabbah also criticized Israel's decision to prevent Arafat from attending Midnight Mass in Bethlehem on Christmas Eve and said if Israel does not ease travel bans in the West Bank, worshippers should pray at army checkpoints. In a poll released Wednesday, most Palestinians surveyed said they believe suicide bombings against Israel were justified, and only a minority supported ending the violent uprising. Some 63 percent said suicide bombings should continue, and just 17 percent opposed the uprising. http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-meast19.html "I would prefer to have invented a machine that people could use and that would help farmers with their work - for example, a lawnmower."—Mikhail Kalashnikov, inventor of the AK-47, 7.27.2002. Bike. It's patriotic. WWND? (What Would Nixon Do?)   Top

Table of Contents

Subject     Author     Message Date     ID    Interesting spin. bemildred Dec-20-02 1    bemildred... drdon326 12/20/2002 2        I have read the high muckety-mucks statement elsewhere bemildred 12/20/2002 3            bemildred... ad_jameson 12/20/2002 25                I know. bemildred 12/20/2002 26                    As an aside... ad_jameson 12/20/2002 32                        One takes ones friends where one finds them, when bemildred 12/20/2002 34                            I really hope it doesn't go there... ad_jameson 12/20/2002 35                                Excellent point , AD drdon326 12/20/2002 37                                    Thanks for proving my point... ad_jameson 12/20/2002 38  63 percent said suicide bombings should continue exlurker Dec-20-02 4    You Don't Want To Know Proudlib 12/20/2002 5        Go ahead MikeGalos 12/20/2002 9    Pretty freightening isnt it?? drdon326 12/20/2002 6    Understandable under the circumstances... leave_no_millionaire_behind 12/20/2002 7        Since exlurker didn't understand MikeGalos 12/20/2002 8            It's not murder in the true sense leave_no_millionaire_behind 12/20/2002 11                It's not murder in the true sense? jem note 12/20/2002 12                Mr. BEHIND... drdon326 12/20/2002 13                    Um... leave_no_millionaire_behind 12/20/2002 14                        Ouch...that hurts.. drdon326 12/20/2002 15                It's not murder? What is it then? exlurker 12/20/2002 16                    Perhaps jem note 12/20/2002 17                        When you personalize it leave_no_millionaire_behind 12/20/2002 20                            So basically, jem note 12/20/2002 24                                It's another act of violence leave_no_millionaire_behind 12/20/2002 27                                    And since they're not reported as murders jem note 12/20/2002 30                            Why it doesn't matter what term the media uses... Violet_Crumble 12/21/2002 122                In an Often Outrageous Forum, This Comment Stands Out, IMO DoveTurnedHawk 12/20/2002 28                        Well said. drdon326 12/20/2002 33                        Is this you? leave_no_millionaire_behind 12/20/2002 36                            The article raises some interesting points MikeGalos 12/20/2002 40                                Mods? Stolen material? leave_no_millionaire_behind 12/20/2002 42                                    not stolen jem note 12/20/2002 43                                        Posted three times on D.U. without your crediting the source. leave_no_millionaire_behind 12/20/2002 44                                            Did you have a point? jem note 12/20/2002 45                                                Copyright violation leave_no_millionaire_behind 12/20/2002 46                                                    no jem note 12/20/2002 47                                                        You passed it off as your own... leave_no_millionaire_behind 12/20/2002 48                                                            Irrelevent to anything. jem note 12/20/2002 49                                                                Stolen material isn't irrelevant to D.U. leave_no_millionaire_behind 12/20/2002 50                                                                    Nobody said it was. jem note 12/20/2002 53                                                                        how do you know? Lotus_Sutra 12/20/2002 57                                                                            because jem note 12/20/2002 59                                                                                "I and other people have seen it and pointed it out" leave_no_millionaire_behind 12/20/2002 60                                            Nice try at deflection YANG 12/20/2002 51                                                Um... leave_no_millionaire_behind 12/20/2002 64                                                    It is silly YANG 12/20/2002 114                                                        What's even sillier... Violet_Crumble 12/21/2002 123                                                    LNMB... drdon326 12/20/2002 117                                        Who cares... ad_jameson 12/20/2002 55                        jem note = Stefan Sharkansky ? Or is it stolen? leave_no_millionaire_behind 12/20/2002 39                            no jem note 12/20/2002 41                            oops Lotus_Sutra 12/20/2002 56                                Actually jem note 12/20/2002 58                                    It's not an issue? LOL yeah and Trent Lott's racism Lotus_Sutra 12/20/2002 82                                        to sum you up YANG 12/20/2002 91                                        Yeh, me and ol' Trent jem note 12/20/2002 92                                Of course it's plagiarism leave_no_millionaire_behind 12/20/2002 62                                    Actually, it's not. jem note 12/20/2002 63                                        Plagiarism is flattery... leave_no_millionaire_behind 12/20/2002 66                                            Was that actually said? ad_jameson 12/20/2002 69                                                hehehehehe leave_no_millionaire_behind 12/20/2002 70                                                    ... ad_jameson 12/20/2002 72                                                        ... jem note 12/20/2002 75                                                    Not as good as YANG 12/20/2002 93                                                        And again... Violet_Crumble 12/21/2002 124                                            Who Cares? DoveTurnedHawk 12/20/2002 79                                                so you defend jem note's actions DTH? Lotus_Sutra 12/20/2002 83                                                    Because Jem's Laziness Has Nothing To Do With the Points DoveTurnedHawk 12/20/2002 84                                                        I love how blatant plagiarism is defended as "laziness" Lotus_Sutra 12/20/2002 87                                                            Plagiarism Sucks DoveTurnedHawk 12/20/2002 97                                                                They've been made aware.. leave_no_millionaire_behind 12/20/2002 101                                                                    Still no clarification YANG 12/20/2002 102                                                                    Huh? DoveTurnedHawk 12/20/2002 103                                                                        Come now DTH... leave_no_millionaire_behind 12/20/2002 104                                                                            Wow DoveTurnedHawk 12/20/2002 106                                                                                I suppose jem note 12/20/2002 108                                                                                You're letting MY posts stand? leave_no_millionaire_behind 12/20/2002 110                                                                                    Read the Rules, LNMB (eom) DoveTurnedHawk 12/20/2002 111                                                                            Hey LNMB... drdon326 12/20/2002 107                                                He freaked the fuck out on me.. absynthe 12/20/2002 90                                                    Well, That's Different DoveTurnedHawk 12/20/2002 94                                                    All this hullabaloo YANG 12/20/2002 95                                                        Pretty amazing ,huh. drdon326 12/20/2002 98                                                            Maybe I should be flattered. jem note 12/20/2002 99                                                                When you cant win on the message..... drdon326 12/20/2002 100                                                What the hell does that mean... leave_no_millionaire_behind 12/20/2002 105                                                    I Was Referring to Jem's Credibility DoveTurnedHawk 12/20/2002 109                                        It is plagiarism without question Lotus_Sutra 12/20/2002 76                                            Actually, it's not. jem note 12/20/2002 81                                                so you're not ashamed of plagiarising someone's work? Lotus_Sutra 12/20/2002 85                                                    well, not especially jem note 12/20/2002 86                                                        Plagiarism: a definition Lotus_Sutra 12/20/2002 88                                                            That's one definition jem note 12/20/2002 89                                    oy ad_jameson 12/20/2002 65                                        So - Jem - get over it, jem note 12/20/2002 68                                            uh... ad_jameson 12/20/2002 71                                                um jem note 12/20/2002 73                                                    FYI ad_jameson 12/20/2002 78                                                        well. jem note 12/20/2002 80                                    Actually...this "LITTLE GUY"..is more disappointed in you LNMB drdon326 12/20/2002 67                                        It's ok drdon leave_no_millionaire_behind 12/20/2002 74                                            LOL.. drdon326 12/20/2002 77                                                It's kinda funny isn't it...just a little? leave_no_millionaire_behind 12/20/2002 112                                                    zzzzzzzzzzzzzz drdon326 12/20/2002 113                                                    I am positive you said YANG 12/20/2002 115                                                        I'm with Yang.. drdon326 12/20/2002 118                    And this point MikeGalos 12/20/2002 61        Is it really ?!?! drdon326 12/20/2002 10        Blowing up kids is understandable? exlurker 12/20/2002 18            Dont ask...you wont like the answer , trust me. drdon326 12/20/2002 19            Many Israelis say leave_no_millionaire_behind 12/20/2002 21                Now try answering EX-LURKERS question to you. drdon326 12/20/2002 23                We are getting to what YOU are saying YANG 12/20/2002 52                    And apparently stands by that MikeGalos 12/20/2002 54        Then you must be very "understanding" YANG 12/20/2002 29  Pray at Israeli checkpoints? ad_jameson Dec-20-02 22  Wow Forkboy Dec-20-02 96    The difference is MikeGalos 12/20/2002 116        Mike...I think LNMB is stuck with that. drdon326 12/20/2002 120        Apologies after being caught Forkboy 12/20/2002 121  I think the poll results would change YANG Dec-20-02 119

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bemildred (3404 posts) Dec-20-02, 10:06 AM (ET) 1. Interesting spin. We are presently executing a plan of redeployment that will minimize response time while maximizing coodination between units in a decentralized networking scheme. -- Chief Stearns, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles   Top

drdon326 (1046 posts) Dec-20-02, 10:08 AM (ET) Reply to post #1 2. bemildred... please elaborate.   Top

bemildred (3404 posts) Dec-20-02, 10:18 AM (ET) Reply to post #2 3. I have read the high muckety-mucks statement elsewhere and it would appear that some things are left out in this story. We are presently executing a plan of redeployment that will minimize response time while maximizing coodination between units in a decentralized networking scheme. -- Chief Stearns, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles   Top

ad_jameson (1523 posts) Dec-20-02, 12:48 PM (ET) Reply to post #3 25. bemildred... LAST EDITED ON Dec-20-02 AT 12:49 PM (ET) ...seems like the official spin is that this guy singled out Arafat to resign. From another source: "I'm calling to all who are unable to make peace to step down and first the Israeli authorities, because peace is in their hands, but if Arafat is unable to make peace, of course, let him also give a place to another." He also criticized Israel for limiting access to holy places during Christmas: "From places of humiliation, hatred and death, as they are now, transform them into places of worship. Call for prayer gatherings there. May God inspire intentions of justice and peace to those who ordered to establish them" Obviously referring to Israeli checkpoints. But of course all that really boils down to headlines such as "Clergyman calls for Arafat to quit"   Top

bemildred (3404 posts) Dec-20-02, 12:51 PM (ET) Reply to post #25 26. I know. LAST EDITED ON Dec-20-02 AT 01:03 PM (ET) I prefer to let those with an interest read the original and make up their own minds (such as they may be). I was just pointing out the descrepancy. Edit: Here's another take: http://www.cnsnews.com/ForeignBureaus/archive/200212/FOR20021218f.html Google "Latin Patriarch Michel Sabbah" and you can get lots more. We are presently executing a plan of redeployment that will minimize response time while maximizing coodination between units in a decentralized networking scheme. -- Chief Stearns, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles   Top

ad_jameson (1523 posts) Dec-20-02, 01:10 PM (ET) Reply to post #26 32. As an aside... ...Israel and the Vatican haven't exactly been best buds over the years. Curious that now the Catholic clergy is being passing off as Israeli allies.   Top

bemildred (3404 posts) Dec-20-02, 01:22 PM (ET) Reply to post #32 34. One takes ones friends where one finds them, when one doesn't have too many. It's interesting that things have sunk to the level where this sort of thing is necessary. There was a time when Israel had a lot more friends. The same could be said for Unca Sam. I don't think previous Latin attitudes toward Jews mean much today, but if one wants to go down that road, the United States has a long and illustrious history of anti-semitism. We are presently executing a plan of redeployment that will minimize response time while maximizing coodination between units in a decentralized networking scheme. -- Chief Stearns, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles   Top

ad_jameson (1523 posts) Dec-20-02, 01:34 PM (ET) Reply to post #34 35. I really hope it doesn't go there... What's going on over there is tragic regardless of the religions of those committing the acts. I certainly hope this doesn't continue down the "Jews vs. Arabs" path. What I consistently find distasteful on this board is the persistent viewpoint that somehow the Israel/Palestinian conflict is devoid of humanity. It becomes taking a "side" rather than seeing human faces with human emotions and motives that are no different from other humans in conflict over the millenia. The comment elsewhere mocking a request to send humanitarian aid to the terroritories ("send nails and fertilizer") was a wake up call to me of how detached many of us are from the human side of the conflict. It's not a football game.   Top

drdon326 (1046 posts) Dec-20-02, 01:39 PM (ET) Reply to post #35 37. Excellent point , AD Seeing posts that find "UNDERSTANDING " with respect suicide bombing, for instance , is devoid of humanity.   Top

ad_jameson (1523 posts) Dec-20-02, 01:52 PM (ET) Reply to post #37 38. Thanks for proving my point... Just 3 million suicide bombers in waiting over there, right Don?   Top

exlurker (79 posts) Dec-20-02, 10:56 AM (ET) 4. 63 percent said suicide bombings should continue I don't understand why such a large number of people support murder. What are they teaching these people in school?   Top

Proudlib (191 posts) Dec-20-02, 11:09 AM (ET) Reply to post #4 5. You Don't Want To Know We can post links to what independent monitors found, but the anti-Israel crowd will shout it down.   Top

MikeGalos (3789 posts) Dec-20-02, 11:48 AM (ET) Reply to post #5 9. Go ahead but don't just post links. Please, explain to us in your own words how intentionally murdering children is OK.   Top

drdon326 (1046 posts) Dec-20-02, 11:24 AM (ET) Reply to post #4 6. Pretty freightening isnt it?? LAST EDITED ON Dec-20-02 AT 11:36 AM (ET) makes one wonder about a cultural psycho-pathology.   Top

leave_no_millionaire_behind (2175 posts) Dec-20-02, 11:37 AM (ET) Reply to post #4 7. Understandable under the circumstances... and not really surprising. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MichiganDems/   Top

MikeGalos (3789 posts) Dec-20-02, 11:47 AM (ET) Reply to post #7 8. Since exlurker didn't understand why supporting the murder of innocent civilians was OK and you think it's both understandable and not surprising, perhaps you can explain how intentionally murdering children at a party or blowing up a pizza parlor or a disco or a school bus is "understandable". I'm sure the justifications for the intentional, targeted deaths of innocent children will be fascinating for those who haven't seen the verbal gymnastics before.   Top

leave_no_millionaire_behind (2175 posts) Dec-20-02, 12:14 PM (ET) Reply to post #8 11. It's not murder in the true sense and I doubt many reputable news sources report it as such. Given the misery inflicted on Palestinians by Israel, the support isn't surprising. Just as most Israelis wanting Arabs to be "encouraged" to leave Israel isn't surprising, given the circumstances. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MichiganDems/   Top

jem note (4219 posts) Dec-20-02, 12:15 PM (ET) Reply to post #11 12. It's not murder in the true sense? So, like, they're not dead? "I would prefer to have invented a machine that people could use and that would help farmers with their work - for example, a lawnmower."—Mikhail Kalashnikov, inventor of the AK-47, 7.27.2002. Bike. It's patriotic. WWND? (What Would Nixon Do?)   Top

drdon326 (1046 posts) Dec-20-02, 12:21 PM (ET) Reply to post #11 13. Mr. BEHIND... Do you know how silly you sound in that last post??   Top

leave_no_millionaire_behind (2175 posts) Dec-20-02, 12:24 PM (ET) Reply to post #13 14. Um... Do you realize how silly you sound in most of your posts? http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MichiganDems/   Top

drdon326 (1046 posts) Dec-20-02, 12:25 PM (ET) Reply to post #14 15. Ouch...that hurts.. ..........   Top

exlurker (79 posts) Dec-20-02, 12:26 PM (ET) Reply to post #11 16. It's not murder? What is it then? What term (other than murder) best describes deliberatly blowing up kids while they are waiting for a bus?   Top

jem note (4219 posts) Dec-20-02, 12:29 PM (ET) Reply to post #16 17. Perhaps in order to be murder in the true sense, we must take into consideration who the kids are. If they're Israeli kids waiting for a bus (or dancing in a club, or eating pizza in a restaurant, etc.) it's perhaps not murder in the true sense. I suspect, though, if they were LNMB's kids, it would probably be murder in every sense of the word. "I would prefer to have invented a machine that people could use and that would help farmers with their work - for example, a lawnmower."—Mikhail Kalashnikov, inventor of the AK-47, 7.27.2002. Bike. It's patriotic. WWND? (What Would Nixon Do?)   Top

leave_no_millionaire_behind (2175 posts) Dec-20-02, 12:36 PM (ET) Reply to post #17 20. When you personalize it and bring emotion into it, it just clouds judgement. Killing is the word most commonly used in these circumstances. Again, I doubt many reputable news sources use the word murder in these situations. If it's fitting, then why aren't they? http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MichiganDems/   Top

jem note (4219 posts) Dec-20-02, 12:44 PM (ET) Reply to post #20 24. So basically, Your saying it's not murder in the true sense because reputable news sources don't use another word? Fitting that you can't even remotely offer your own answer but once again have to hide behind another issue. "I would prefer to have invented a machine that people could use and that would help farmers with their work - for example, a lawnmower."—Mikhail Kalashnikov, inventor of the AK-47, 7.27.2002. Bike. It's patriotic. WWND? (What Would Nixon Do?)   Top

leave_no_millionaire_behind (2175 posts) Dec-20-02, 12:57 PM (ET) Reply to post #24 27. It's another act of violence in an international conflict. That's why they're not reported as murders. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MichiganDems/   Top

jem note (4219 posts) Dec-20-02, 01:04 PM (ET) Reply to post #27 30. And since they're not reported as murders that somehow makes them not murders. Or not murders in the true sense. "I would prefer to have invented a machine that people could use and that would help farmers with their work - for example, a lawnmower."—Mikhail Kalashnikov, inventor of the AK-47, 7.27.2002. Bike. It's patriotic. WWND? (What Would Nixon Do?)   Top

Violet_Crumble (93 posts) Dec-21-02, 00:37 AM (ET) Reply to post #20 122. Why it doesn't matter what term the media uses... The media here commonly referred to the victims of the Bali bombings as having been *killed* in the blast, but I don't think for a second that the journalists who write those news stories believe that victims of terrorist attacks haven't been murdered. I don't know why the media tends to favour the word *killing* over the word *murder* when it comes to people who die in terrorist attacks. I'd be interested in finding out though, even though I think what they call it has little relevance to what the reality is. Civilians inside Israel who die as a result of terrorist attacks have been murdered. Legally, I honestly don't know what captured terrorists are charged with, though I'd be very surprised if the Bali bombers haven't been charged with over 200 counts of murder. But even if they hadn't, it still makes what they did murder...   Top

DoveTurnedHawk (1578 posts) Dec-20-02, 01:00 PM (ET) Reply to post #11 28. In an Often Outrageous Forum, This Comment Stands Out, IMO "It's not murder in the true sense." -- LeaveNoMillionaireBehind, referring to suicide bombings against civilian targets. Murder is the intentional taking of an innocent life. Suicide bombers commit intentional acts. Their victims are overwhelmingly innocent. The logic seems clear to me. I don't understand how you can claim otherwise, unless you're redefining murder, or mistakenly believe that Israeli children, peace activists and other civilians are somehow not innocent. DTH   Top

drdon326 (1046 posts) Dec-20-02, 01:12 PM (ET) Reply to post #31 33. Well said. LAST EDITED ON Dec-20-02 AT 01:20 PM (ET) LAST EDITED ON Dec-20-02 AT 01:18 PM (ET) Pretty sickening to see a liberal web site with in essence excusing/justifing/UNDERSTANDING mindless murder.   Top

leave_no_millionaire_behind (2175 posts) Dec-20-02, 01:35 PM (ET) Reply to post #31 36. Is this you? http://www.usefulwork.com/shark/humanshield.html http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MichiganDems/   Top

MikeGalos (3789 posts) Dec-20-02, 02:09 PM (ET) Reply to post #36 40. The article raises some interesting points Thanks for posting it. Care to actually discuss it?   Top

leave_no_millionaire_behind (2175 posts) Dec-20-02, 02:12 PM (ET) Reply to post #40 42. Mods? Stolen material? Maybe we should determine if jem has stolen this before we discuss it. Unless jem is "the shark". http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MichiganDems/   Top

jem note (4219 posts) Dec-20-02, 02:13 PM (ET) Reply to post #42 43. not stolen LAST EDITED ON Dec-20-02 AT 03:07 PM (ET) borrowed, in part. It's not an issue. "I would prefer to have invented a machine that people could use and that would help farmers with their work - for example, a lawnmower."—Mikhail Kalashnikov, inventor of the AK-47, 7.27.2002. Bike. It's patriotic. WWND? (What Would Nixon Do?)   Top

leave_no_millionaire_behind (2175 posts) Dec-20-02, 02:16 PM (ET) Reply to post #43 44. Posted three times on D.U. without your crediting the source. for shame. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MichiganDems/   Top

jem note (4219 posts) Dec-20-02, 02:18 PM (ET) Reply to post #44 45. Did you have a point? Or are you just trying to change the subject? Again. As usual. Never mind, we all know the answer. "I would prefer to have invented a machine that people could use and that would help farmers with their work - for example, a lawnmower."—Mikhail Kalashnikov, inventor of the AK-47, 7.27.2002. Bike. It's patriotic. WWND? (What Would Nixon Do?)   Top

leave_no_millionaire_behind (2175 posts) Dec-20-02, 02:21 PM (ET) Reply to post #45 46. Copyright violation "If you wish to reference an article, provide a brief excerpt and include a link to the original source." Even if given permission to use something, you should credit the source. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MichiganDems/   Top

jem note (4219 posts) Dec-20-02, 02:24 PM (ET) Reply to post #46 47. no LAST EDITED ON Dec-20-02 AT 03:11 PM (ET) there's no copyright violation unless the person objects, and I don't believe the material borrowed from is copyrighted anyway. Nice try. Perhaps you might address the actual point in question rather than trying to change the subject. Again. As usual. "I would prefer to have invented a machine that people could use and that would help farmers with their work - for example, a lawnmower."—Mikhail Kalashnikov, inventor of the AK-47, 7.27.2002. Bike. It's patriotic. WWND? (What Would Nixon Do?)   Top

leave_no_millionaire_behind (2175 posts) Dec-20-02, 02:30 PM (ET) Reply to post #47 48. You passed it off as your own... so much for your credibility. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MichiganDems/   Top

jem note (4219 posts) Dec-20-02, 02:34 PM (ET) Reply to post #48 49. Irrelevent to anything. Of course, you're a fine judge of credibility, as we all know (Lebanese missiles, anyone?). Now, perhaps you had something to say about the point in question, or were you just wanting to change the topic? Again. As usual. Of course, we know the answer. "I would prefer to have invented a machine that people could use and that would help farmers with their work - for example, a lawnmower."—Mikhail Kalashnikov, inventor of the AK-47, 7.27.2002. Bike. It's patriotic. WWND? (What Would Nixon Do?)   Top

leave_no_millionaire_behind (2175 posts) Dec-20-02, 02:36 PM (ET) Reply to post #49 50. Stolen material isn't irrelevant to D.U. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MichiganDems/   Top

jem note (4219 posts) Dec-20-02, 02:58 PM (ET) Reply to post #50 53. Nobody said it was. Anyway, my apologies for not using specific quote marks and offering a specific cite. I'm hardly the first person in this forum to do so. "I would prefer to have invented a machine that people could use and that would help farmers with their work - for example, a lawnmower."—Mikhail Kalashnikov, inventor of the AK-47, 7.27.2002. Bike. It's patriotic. WWND? (What Would Nixon Do?)   Top

Lotus_Sutra (873 posts) Dec-20-02, 04:31 PM (ET) Reply to post #53 57. how do you know? hey maybe you are the first to plagiarize at DU so blatantly - who knows? Ok that is doubtful. Pretty lame excuse to cover up an attempt to pass off someone else's writing as your own. Wow DU has sunk to a new low, thanks to you jem note. Of the Buddha's immeasurable treasure we have gained only a small portion of nirvana, and like ignorant and foolish persons have taken that to be sufficient.   Top

jem note (4219 posts) Dec-20-02, 04:36 PM (ET) Reply to post #57 59. because I and other people have seen it and pointed it out. This is a non-issue, and is merely changing the topic from the issue at hand: that suicide bombing, despite being supported by most Palestinians, is unacceptable and must be stopped. Oh, Hildegarde! "I would prefer to have invented a machine that people could use and that would help farmers with their work - for example, a lawnmower."—Mikhail Kalashnikov, inventor of the AK-47, 7.27.2002. Bike. It's patriotic. WWND? (What Would Nixon Do?)   Top

leave_no_millionaire_behind (2175 posts) Dec-20-02, 04:41 PM (ET) Reply to post #59 60. "I and other people have seen it and pointed it out" So you are then free to post it as your own, I suppose. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MichiganDems/   Top

YANG (5193 posts) Dec-20-02, 02:55 PM (ET) Reply to post #44 51. Nice try at deflection you still defended murder against SOME of the innocents who are killed. Never have I seen you fail to attack when it was the IDF that killed an unarmed civilian. I didn't see you argue with Lotus_Sutra when he/she said that Hook was murdered but when it is obviously innocent Israelis getting killed you say that it isn't really murder. Why would killing of a non Israeli be murder and the killing of an Israeli not be? ____________________________________ History teaches us that men and nations behave wisely when they have exhausted all other alternatives. Abba Eban (Born 1915) Things are more like they are now than they have ever been before. Dwight Eisenhower Reality is that, which when you no longer believe in it, it still exists. Phillip K. Dick   Top

leave_no_millionaire_behind (2175 posts) Dec-20-02, 04:58 PM (ET) Reply to post #51 64. Um... "Never have I seen you fail to attack when it was the IDF that killed an unarmed civilian." Someone else must be using my screen name. I don't think I've kept track of every time the IDF killed an unarmed civilian. "I didn't see you argue with Lotus_Sutra when he/she said that Hook was murdered but when it is obviously innocent Israelis getting killed you say that it isn't really murder." OK. So if a post is made and I don't disagree with it, that means I've agreed with it. OK. You're getting silly on me. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MichiganDems/   Top

YANG (5193 posts) Dec-20-02, 10:05 PM (ET) Reply to post #64 114. It is silly to say that killing Jews isn't murder. ____________________________________ History teaches us that men and nations behave wisely when they have exhausted all other alternatives. Abba Eban (Born 1915) Things are more like they are now than they have ever been before. Dwight Eisenhower Reality is that, which when you no longer believe in it, it still exists. Phillip K. Dick   Top

Violet_Crumble (93 posts) Dec-21-02, 00:54 AM (ET) Reply to post #114 123. What's even sillier... ...is for you to say someone said something they never said. They never said that killing Jews isn't murder. Not that I guess it'll stop you and some others from taking yr incorrect version of what was said and posting yr new version all over other threads.... Hell, I didn't even agree with what they said and said so, but at least I bothered to read what they said and respond to what was actually said. You need to learn to read and comprehend what is being said because you've pulled a similar stunt on me several times now...   Top

drdon326 (1046 posts) Dec-20-02, 10:09 PM (ET) Reply to post #64 117. LNMB... I think you may be stuck with that..   Top

ad_jameson (1523 posts) Dec-20-02, 03:29 PM (ET) Reply to post #43 55. Who cares... LAST EDITED ON Dec-20-02 AT 03:33 PM (ET) like it's any news flash that most of this stuff is copped from talking points websites. not much different from the way those ridiculous bill clinton "murder lists" get propagated. those who want to believe it seek it out and regurgitate ad nauseum... of course for those who like to play by the book (you know, bitching about leaving "palestians say" out of the thread topic for example?), it's a bit inconsistent to play loose on citations.   Top

leave_no_millionaire_behind (2175 posts) Dec-20-02, 02:04 PM (ET) Reply to post #31 39. jem note = Stefan Sharkansky ? Or is it stolen? ? http://www.usefulwork.com/shark/humanshield.html http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MichiganDems/   Top

jem note (4219 posts) Dec-20-02, 02:11 PM (ET) Reply to post #39 41. no LAST EDITED ON Dec-20-02 AT 03:10 PM (ET) borrowed, in part. It's not an issue. "I would prefer to have invented a machine that people could use and that would help farmers with their work - for example, a lawnmower."—Mikhail Kalashnikov, inventor of the AK-47, 7.27.2002. Bike. It's patriotic. WWND? (What Would Nixon Do?)   Top

Lotus_Sutra (873 posts) Dec-20-02, 04:26 PM (ET) Reply to post #39 56. oops if jem note does not = Stefan Sharkansky then this is clearly plagiarism. Has anyone warned Mr. Sharkansky yet? Of the Buddha's immeasurable treasure we have gained only a small portion of nirvana, and like ignorant and foolish persons have taken that to be sufficient.   Top

jem note (4219 posts) Dec-20-02, 04:33 PM (ET) Reply to post #56 58. Actually it's not even an issue. The person in question doesn't care. The real issue, of course, is that suicide bombings, despite being supported by most Palestinians, are unacceptable. People really need to stop conjuring up non-issues to distract attention from what's really important. "I would prefer to have invented a machine that people could use and that would help farmers with their work - for example, a lawnmower."—Mikhail Kalashnikov, inventor of the AK-47, 7.27.2002. Bike. It's patriotic. WWND? (What Would Nixon Do?)   Top

Lotus_Sutra (873 posts) Dec-20-02, 05:30 PM (ET) Reply to post #58 82. It's not an issue? LOL yeah and Trent Lott's racism isn't an issue either Of the Buddha's immeasurable treasure we have gained only a small portion of nirvana, and like ignorant and foolish persons have taken that to be sufficient.   Top

YANG (5193 posts) Dec-20-02, 07:12 PM (ET) Reply to post #82 91. to sum you up Murdering Jews < posting on a message board without proper citation... All too familiar at www.ifyoudisagreewithmeyournotaliberal.com ____________________________________ History teaches us that men and nations behave wisely when they have exhausted all other alternatives. Abba Eban (Born 1915) Things are more like they are now than they have ever been before. Dwight Eisenhower Reality is that, which when you no longer believe in it, it still exists. Phillip K. Dick   Top

jem note (4219 posts) Dec-20-02, 07:13 PM (ET) Reply to post #82 92. Yeh, me and ol' Trent and Hildegarde, too. "I would prefer to have invented a machine that people could use and that would help farmers with their work - for example, a lawnmower."—Mikhail Kalashnikov, inventor of the AK-47, 7.27.2002. Bike. It's patriotic. WWND? (What Would Nixon Do?) "Oh come on! Stop beatin' it! Get out there yourself. Stop feedin' off me! Get out of here. I can't breathe. Give me some air."--Cool Hand Luke.   Top

leave_no_millionaire_behind (2175 posts) Dec-20-02, 04:50 PM (ET) Reply to post #56 62. Of course it's plagiarism but you've missed the explanations... It had been seen before by some people And the author doesn't care if his work is lifted. Gosh, after drdon complemented it...the little guy must be disappointed. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MichiganDems/   Top

jem note (4219 posts) Dec-20-02, 04:55 PM (ET) Reply to post #62 63. Actually, it's not. Trying to make a big deal out of something like this is really quite silly. Even if it was plagiarism, which it’s not, not least because there’s nothing especially essential riding on it, it would still be (as the old saying goes) the highest form of flattery. As one of my colleagues who’s a lawyer noted, this is standard practice not to mention an art form (they use "forms," which basically copy other people's work) in that field. Now, seeing as I made no money off it, I didn’t publish it, I didn’t submit it for a grade, I didn’t offer it as a professional prerequisite, I didn’t misrepresent anyone’s views or opinions, and the person everybody is so worried about not only didn’t mind but was flattered by it, this is a complete and total non-issue. The real issue, from which this arose as a convenient distraction, is that suicide bombings are despicable crimes against humanity and must be stopped, even if most Palestinians want them to continue. I’m amazed that your comment about the deliberate murder of Jewish kids not being murder in the true sense has garnered little if any opprobrium from the people trying to make an issue out of a post. Gee, talk about priorities. People doth protest too much, eh? Of course, not that we're shocked at your trying to change the subject. Again. As usual. "I would prefer to have invented a machine that people could use and that would help farmers with their work - for example, a lawnmower."—Mikhail Kalashnikov, inventor of the AK-47, 7.27.2002. Bike. It's patriotic. WWND? (What Would Nixon Do?)   Top

leave_no_millionaire_behind (2175 posts) Dec-20-02, 05:04 PM (ET) Reply to post #63 66. Plagiarism is flattery... that's a unique explanation. And it's an art form to boot. After seeing you at work here, you may have raised it to that. "Now, seeing as I made no money off it, I didn’t publish it, I didn’t submit it for a grade, I didn’t offer it as a professional prerequisite, I didn’t misrepresent anyone’s views or opinions, and the person everybody is so worried about not only didn’t mind but was flattered by it, this is a complete and total non-issue. " Passing off someone else's work as your own is a non-issue? So in the future, how do we know if you're lifting or actually posting something you wrote? Or doesn't it matter? http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MichiganDems/   Top

ad_jameson (1523 posts) Dec-20-02, 05:07 PM (ET) Reply to post #66 69. Was that actually said? Quit while you're ahead Jem. And I guess ripping off someone's car is "flattery" of someone's fine taste in automobiles. Sheesh - the contortions you make to avoid backing down.   Top

leave_no_millionaire_behind (2175 posts) Dec-20-02, 05:09 PM (ET) Reply to post #69 70. hehehehehe "And I guess ripping off someone's car is "flattery" of someone's fine taste in automobiles." Good line. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MichiganDems/   Top

ad_jameson (1523 posts) Dec-20-02, 05:12 PM (ET) Reply to post #70 72. ... ...if you logically extend anything Jem says it ends up being ridiculous. See the comment about how the Geneva Convention only applies in certain places (ie places associated with high contracting parties). Still wondering if world despots have a "Top 10" list of eligible populations to terrorize.   Top

jem note (4219 posts) Dec-20-02, 05:16 PM (ET) Reply to post #72 75. ... "if you logically extend anything Jem says it ends up being ridiculous." As opposed to your comments, which don't even need extending to look ridiculous, eh? "I would prefer to have invented a machine that people could use and that would help farmers with their work - for example, a lawnmower."—Mikhail Kalashnikov, inventor of the AK-47, 7.27.2002. Bike. It's patriotic. WWND? (What Would Nixon Do?)   Top

YANG (5193 posts) Dec-20-02, 07:13 PM (ET) Reply to post #70 93. Not as good as killing Jews isn't murder. ____________________________________ History teaches us that men and nations behave wisely when they have exhausted all other alternatives. Abba Eban (Born 1915) Things are more like they are now than they have ever been before. Dwight Eisenhower Reality is that, which when you no longer believe in it, it still exists. Phillip K. Dick   Top

Violet_Crumble (93 posts) Dec-21-02, 01:00 AM (ET) Reply to post #93 124. And again... LAST EDITED ON Dec-21-02 AT 01:01 AM (ET) There's no line about killing Jews being murder, Yang... edited to remove totally weird use of double negative that totally changed the meaning of my sentence.   Top

DoveTurnedHawk (1578 posts) Dec-20-02, 05:25 PM (ET) Reply to post #66 79. Who Cares? Plagiarism is flattery...that's a unique explanation. It's also a common saying: plagiarism is the highest form of flattery. Passing off someone else's work as your own is a non-issue? So in the future, how do we know if you're lifting or actually posting something you wrote? Or doesn't it matter? Oh, come on, already. We all know how you feel about Jem, LNMB. How could your opinion of him get any worse with this <gasp> shocking revelation about cribbing some text from someone who doesn't even care, or is perhaps in fact flattered? Try focusing on the words and the issue itself, rather than this sideshow. It's a complete distraction from the substantive discussion at hand. This is a message board, not a dissertation board. I'll be happy to stipulate that at any given point in the future, with or without warning, Jem might be using the words of some other scholar rather than his own. And if I ever see Jem trying to take credit for those words, or consider hiring him for a university position, then I'll take all of this noise very seriously. Until then, please feel free to respond to the actual words, positions and arguments...whoever they might happen to belong to. Because last I checked, we're allowed to discuss not only our own positions here, but those of others, too. DTH   Top

Lotus_Sutra (873 posts) Dec-20-02, 05:41 PM (ET) Reply to post #79 83. so you defend jem note's actions DTH? you don't see anything wrong with copying and pasting a couple of long paragraphs from someone else's written material and passing them off as your own? Face it, DTH, had LNMB not busted jem note for the plagiarism, we would have all assumed they were jem note's own words. How could you possibly defend it and expect to be taken seriously? Of the Buddha's immeasurable treasure we have gained only a small portion of nirvana, and like ignorant and foolish persons have taken that to be sufficient.   Top

DoveTurnedHawk (1578 posts) Dec-20-02, 05:51 PM (ET) Reply to post #83 84. Because Jem's Laziness Has Nothing To Do With the Points Raised by me, him, drdon, Yang, MikeGalos, or anyone else trying to debate the substance of the issue. Did Jem slant the words? Did he take them out of context? No? Then I don't really care. The fact that Jem Note copied some text has no real effect on my life, and even if it might have lowered my opinion of him slightly, that does not at all change the points raised in the passage. This is a convenient distraction, much like Big Dog having sex with an intern was a distraction from the fact that he had fantastic ideas and was a great president who led our nation into a period of unprecedented prosperity. Would I want Big Dog dating my daughter, if I had one? Maybe not. But I sure as hell am not going to ignore the substantive issues just because he acted like a moron with an intern. Similarly, even if I wouldn't want Jem teaching at my university, if I had one, I'm not going to ignore his points in this discussion, when they're relevant. Not even if those points might have been authored by someone else. DTH   Top

Lotus_Sutra (873 posts) Dec-20-02, 06:02 PM (ET) Reply to post #84 87. I love how blatant plagiarism is defended as "laziness" come on DTH, you're a mod on a political message board. You should know better than to defend plagiarism - there are some lines nobody should ever cross in political debate. Copying and pasting someone else's essay then passing it off as your own is one of those lines. DO YOU AGREE OR NOT Of the Buddha's immeasurable treasure we have gained only a small portion of nirvana, and like ignorant and foolish persons have taken that to be sufficient.   Top

DoveTurnedHawk (1578 posts) Dec-20-02, 07:29 PM (ET) Reply to post #87 97. Plagiarism Sucks But unless it's a copyright violation (and I don't believe this is one, in light of certain information I have), it's not against the rules. My job is to enforce the rules as they're written, not as you think they should be. I imagine there are lots of people on this board who have cribbed stuff without painstakingly attributing every single passage or line (although perhaps none so high-profile as Jem, in this forum). While I wouldn't personally, knowingly engage in such behavior, and while I disapprove of it generally, I'm not about to engage in disciplinary action against such people unless there's some form of rule violation. And if there's a relevant debate going on, I certainly wouldn't willfully ignore the substance of the post in favor of merely crying "plagiarism," but hey, that's just me. If you can point out a rule violation to me, LS, please let me know and I'll make sure the FA/NS moderators are aware of it. DTH   Top

leave_no_millionaire_behind (2175 posts) Dec-20-02, 07:47 PM (ET) Reply to post #97 101. They've been made aware.. and I don't have a clue why you think it would go through you. "While I wouldn't personally, knowingly engage in such behavior, and while I disapprove of it generally, I'm not about to engage in disciplinary action against such people unless there's some form of rule violation." This isn't against D.U. rules? Must be that "certain information" you have. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MichiganDems/   Top

YANG (5193 posts) Dec-20-02, 07:49 PM (ET) Reply to post #101 102. Still no clarification on why you think killing Jews isn't murder... kinda sad really. ____________________________________ History teaches us that men and nations behave wisely when they have exhausted all other alternatives. Abba Eban (Born 1915) Things are more like they are now than they have ever been before. Dwight Eisenhower Reality is that, which when you no longer believe in it, it still exists. Phillip K. Dick   Top

DoveTurnedHawk (1578 posts) Dec-20-02, 07:51 PM (ET) Reply to post #101 103. Huh? They've been made aware and I don't have a clue why you think it would go through you. What, I can't even offer to be helpful now? It doesn't have to "go through" me, of course. But I can forward information to make sure the right people are aware of it. This isn't against D.U. rules? Must be that "certain information" you have. What are you talking about? What isn't against DU rules? And I'm sorry, but I'm afraid I can't disclose the nature of the "certain information" to you because that really WOULD be a violation of the rules. DTH   Top

leave_no_millionaire_behind (2175 posts) Dec-20-02, 08:05 PM (ET) Reply to post #103 104. Come now DTH... you don't even think any rules were violated, but you offer to make the right people aware? Aware of what? That some pro-Palestinian partisans are making unfounded charges? Just how "helpful" would you be in getting this addressed? (But my guess is it won't be, anyway.) You're a pro-Israel partisan, and no one thinks you're going to go about getting anything done about this, particularly since you just swooped in to defend it. "And I'm sorry, but I'm afraid I can't disclose the nature of the "certain information" to you because that really WOULD be a violation of the rules." The question is what are "you" talking about, with your "I-know-something-you-don't" line. But I guess if you tell us, you'll have to kill us. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MichiganDems/   Top

DoveTurnedHawk (1578 posts) Dec-20-02, 08:14 PM (ET) Reply to post #104 106. Wow You're a pro-Israel partisan, and no one thinks you're going to go about getting anything done about this, particularly since you just swooped in to defend it. If I say I'm going to do something, I do it. If I say I'll forward a complaint along to the FA/NS moderators (which, it's true, you don't need me to do, but multiple sources often bring matters to a person's attention more quickly), I'll do it. But hey, suit yourself. I should also point out that all of your attacks on my supposed bias (as opposed to my actual positions on the merits, which you're free to attack all day long, of course) are against the rules and should be removed: "If you think a moderator has acted inappropriately, please contact one of the administrators so we can deal with it. Please do not publicly complain about a moderator or your thread will be deleted. Moderators are volunteers who provide a valuable service to this website, and as such they do not deserve to be publicly reprimanded or second-guessed." In cases like these, technically any moderator has the right to act, not just the FA/NS mods. I'm letting your posts stand, however, because I've recused myself from making such a decision here. I'm doing this out of a desire to be as fair as possible, and out of respect for Lithos and kcr. Which makes your accusations all the more ironic in my book, but again, that's just me. Again, if you have complaints about me, I urge you to post them in Questions and Comments. Because that's where they belong. You have been informed. DTH   Top

jem note (4219 posts) Dec-20-02, 08:16 PM (ET) Reply to post #106 108. I suppose belittling DTH is even more off-topic than discussing me. Geez. "I would prefer to have invented a machine that people could use and that would help farmers with their work - for example, a lawnmower."—Mikhail Kalashnikov, inventor of the AK-47, 7.27.2002. Bike. It's patriotic. WWND? (What Would Nixon Do?) "Oh come on! Stop beatin' it! Get out there yourself. Stop feedin' off me! Get out of here. I can't breathe. Give me some air."--Cool Hand Luke.   Top

leave_no_millionaire_behind (2175 posts) Dec-20-02, 08:19 PM (ET) Reply to post #106 110. You're letting MY posts stand? wow. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MichiganDems/   Top

DoveTurnedHawk (1578 posts) Dec-20-02, 08:20 PM (ET) Reply to post #110 111. Read the Rules, LNMB (eom) DTH   Top

drdon326 (1046 posts) Dec-20-02, 08:15 PM (ET) Reply to post #104 107. Hey LNMB... Youre an interesting person. You have such "moral" outrage over bullshit but seem to have no real outrage over the murder of innocent victims of suicide bombers? Maybe your outrage is a little misplaced??   Top

absynthe (9773 posts) Dec-20-02, 07:07 PM (ET) Reply to post #79 90. He freaked the fuck out on me.. and accused me of paraphrasing(!) some website once dealing with Shamir. When great changes occur in history, when great principles are involved, as a rule the majority are wrong. Eugene V. Debs   Top

DoveTurnedHawk (1578 posts) Dec-20-02, 07:24 PM (ET) Reply to post #90 94. Well, That's Different If you want to attack Jem for hypocrisy, feel free. It sounds like you have a legitimate beef, if things are as you say. Hypocrisy still isn't against the rules, however. If it was, I imagine the majority of posters here, on both sides, would quickly fall afoul of such a rule. DTH   Top

YANG (5193 posts) Dec-20-02, 07:25 PM (ET) Reply to post #90 95. All this hullabaloo and nothing over someones comments that killing Jews isn't murder. ____________________________________ History teaches us that men and nations behave wisely when they have exhausted all other alternatives. Abba Eban (Born 1915) Things are more like they are now than they have ever been before. Dwight Eisenhower Reality is that, which when you no longer believe in it, it still exists. Phillip K. Dick   Top

drdon326 (1046 posts) Dec-20-02, 07:31 PM (ET) Reply to post #95 98. Pretty amazing ,huh. Boy the "moral" outrage is pretty thick. Wake me up when we discuss the issues.   Top

jem note (4219 posts) Dec-20-02, 07:38 PM (ET) Reply to post #98 99. Maybe I should be flattered. Who ever knew that people would spend more time and energy and posts discussing me than in addressing suicide bombings and Palestinian criticism of Arafat, eh? "I would prefer to have invented a machine that people could use and that would help farmers with their work - for example, a lawnmower."—Mikhail Kalashnikov, inventor of the AK-47, 7.27.2002. Bike. It's patriotic. WWND? (What Would Nixon Do?) "Oh come on! Stop beatin' it! Get out there yourself. Stop feedin' off me! Get out of here. I can't breathe. Give me some air."--Cool Hand Luke.   Top

drdon326 (1046 posts) Dec-20-02, 07:42 PM (ET) Reply to post #99 100. When you cant win on the message..... attack the messanger...its so sad.   Top

leave_no_millionaire_behind (2175 posts) Dec-20-02, 08:14 PM (ET) Reply to post #79 105. What the hell does that mean... "I'll be happy to stipulate that at any given point in the future, with or without warning, Jem might be using the words of some other scholar rather than his own." So can we all stipulate that we might be using the words of others and just copy and paste to our heart's content? http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MichiganDems/   Top

DoveTurnedHawk (1578 posts) Dec-20-02, 08:18 PM (ET) Reply to post #105 109. I Was Referring to Jem's Credibility I'm not advocating some kind of general practice, of course. I'm basically conceding that you can attack Jem based on credibility all you want; I'm just not going to argue with you based on that ground. It's an effort to get past this issue so we can discuss the actual substance of the point. DTH   Top

Lotus_Sutra (873 posts) Dec-20-02, 05:17 PM (ET) Reply to post #63 76. It is plagiarism without question besides, whatever legal argument you might concoct to wriggle out of this embarrassment doesn't take away from the complete loss of your credibility around here. Can't help but wonder what else on these threads you've lifted from other websites and passed off as your own. You should be damn ashamed, and anyone who tries to defend you should think twice - kinda like Republicans defending the racism of Trent Lott: it's a losing battle. Of the Buddha's immeasurable treasure we have gained only a small portion of nirvana, and like ignorant and foolish persons have taken that to be sufficient.   Top

jem note (4219 posts) Dec-20-02, 05:30 PM (ET) Reply to post #76 81. Actually, it's not. As I explained above. Regarding my supposed loss of credibility, nobody has mentioned that here except that usual parties, which is neither surprising nor noteworthy. Yeh, I should be damned ashamed, or something, according to you. Me and Hildegarde Withers, eh? "I would prefer to have invented a machine that people could use and that would help farmers with their work - for example, a lawnmower."—Mikhail Kalashnikov, inventor of the AK-47, 7.27.2002. Bike. It's patriotic. WWND? (What Would Nixon Do?)   Top

Lotus_Sutra (873 posts) Dec-20-02, 05:53 PM (ET) Reply to post #81 85. so you're not ashamed of plagiarising someone's work? that's kind of arrogant, dont you think Of the Buddha's immeasurable treasure we have gained only a small portion of nirvana, and like ignorant and foolish persons have taken that to be sufficient.   Top

jem note (4219 posts) Dec-20-02, 06:00 PM (ET) Reply to post #85 86. well, not especially since it's not really plagiarism. Aren't you a bit ashamed to have made so many posts about this issue but not one about the actual topic at hand? Oh, Hildegarde! "Oh come on! Stop beatin' it! Get out there yourself. Stop feedin' off me. Get out of here. I can't breathe. Give me some air."   Top

Lotus_Sutra (873 posts) Dec-20-02, 06:20 PM (ET) Reply to post #86 88. Plagiarism: a definition "To appopriate passages or ideas from and use them as one's own" If your copying and pasting someone else's essay and attempting to pass it off here as your own isn't plagiarism, I don't know what is Of the Buddha's immeasurable treasure we have gained only a small portion of nirvana, and like ignorant and foolish persons have taken that to be sufficient.   Top

jem note (4219 posts) Dec-20-02, 06:27 PM (ET) Reply to post #88 89. That's one definition Doesn't really fit the situation, of course, but nice try. I suppose I should be flattered: this silly issue is of more pressing interest and concern for some people to post about than suicide bombers, Arafat, and the other actual topics of this thread. "Oh come on! Stop beatin' it! Get out there yourself. Stop feedin' off me. Get out of here. I can't breathe. Give me some air." WWND? (What Would Nixon Do?)   Top

ad_jameson (1523 posts) Dec-20-02, 05:02 PM (ET) Reply to post #62 65. oy It's clearly plagiarism - whether it's for grade, profit or what doesn't matter much. Only that it's publicly distributed or posted without attribution. That said, who cares. Obviously Jem does since s/he won't stop making inane denials. Point is that it's a civil offense and unless someone wants to sue you there's no penalty. So - Jem - get over it, move on and let a little air out of the ego for once.   Top

jem note (4219 posts) Dec-20-02, 05:06 PM (ET) Reply to post #65 68. So - Jem - get over it, Um, actually, I am over it. In fact, I always have been. "So - Jem - get over it, move on and let a little air out of the ego for once." Now that's a stupid comment, as my ego doesn't have any air in it. "I would prefer to have invented a machine that people could use and that would help farmers with their work - for example, a lawnmower."—Mikhail Kalashnikov, inventor of the AK-47, 7.27.2002. Bike. It's patriotic. WWND? (What Would Nixon Do?)   Top

ad_jameson (1523 posts) Dec-20-02, 05:10 PM (ET) Reply to post #68 71. uh... Um, actually, I am over it. In fact, I always have been Sorry - was confused by the over half dozen ridiculous posts you've made trying to weasel out of an obvious gaffe. And sorry - didn't realize you were deficient in the idiom department. Can I ask you to take your ego down a notch? Oh, wait - does it not have notches? Um...   Top

jem note (4219 posts) Dec-20-02, 05:12 PM (ET) Reply to post #71 73. um LAST EDITED ON Dec-20-02 AT 05:12 PM (ET) " didn't realize you were deficient in the idiom department. " Now, that's another stupid comment that isn't even remotely true. Perhaps you're confused about what an idiom is? Keep trying! "I would prefer to have invented a machine that people could use and that would help farmers with their work - for example, a lawnmower."—Mikhail Kalashnikov, inventor of the AK-47, 7.27.2002. Bike. It's patriotic. WWND? (What Would Nixon Do?)   Top

ad_jameson (1523 posts) Dec-20-02, 05:23 PM (ET) Reply to post #73 78. FYI IDIOM: A speech form or an expression of a given language that is peculiar to itself grammatically or cannot be understood from the individual meanings of its elements, as in 'keep tabs on'. Or as in "let the air out of your (inflated) ego"? Let me know if you still don't understand. We can work through this.   Top

jem note (4219 posts) Dec-20-02, 05:27 PM (ET) Reply to post #78 80. well. "Let me know if you still don't understand. We can work through this. " Now that's another stupid and inaccurate statement, as I didn't not understand. Keep trying. "I would prefer to have invented a machine that people could use and that would help farmers with their work - for example, a lawnmower."—Mikhail Kalashnikov, inventor of the AK-47, 7.27.2002. Bike. It's patriotic. WWND? (What Would Nixon Do?)   Top

drdon326 (1046 posts) Dec-20-02, 05:05 PM (ET) Reply to post #62 67. Actually...this "LITTLE GUY"..is more disappointed in you LNMB B/O 1.Your pathetic "understanding" of murderers 2.Your SHAMELESSLY laughable attempts to avoid that fact.   Top

leave_no_millionaire_behind (2175 posts) Dec-20-02, 05:13 PM (ET) Reply to post #67 74. It's ok drdon It was probably a little embarassing to complement someone on something they didn't write...and then they didn't even tell you that. Keep that chin up. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MichiganDems/   Top

drdon326 (1046 posts) Dec-20-02, 05:17 PM (ET) Reply to post #74 77. LOL.. Don't worry....keep trying..you'll have a life soon.   Top

leave_no_millionaire_behind (2175 posts) Dec-20-02, 10:00 PM (ET) Reply to post #77 112. It's kinda funny isn't it...just a little? You kept telling someone how good their blurbs are, they thank you, and now you're wondering how many they actually wrote, if any. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MichiganDems/   Top

drdon326 (1046 posts) Dec-20-02, 10:04 PM (ET) Reply to post #112 113. zzzzzzzzzzzzzz Give it up.   Top

YANG (5193 posts) Dec-20-02, 10:06 PM (ET) Reply to post #112 115. I am positive you said that killing Jews isn't murder. I'll bet you wish you plagarised that. ____________________________________ History teaches us that men and nations behave wisely when they have exhausted all other alternatives. Abba Eban (Born 1915) Things are more like they are now than they have ever been before. Dwight Eisenhower Reality is that, which when you no longer believe in it, it still exists. Phillip K. Dick   Top

drdon326 (1046 posts) Dec-20-02, 10:13 PM (ET) Reply to post #115 118. I'm with Yang.. I may have to remind you of those now famous words at every opportunity. But we could negotiate.   Top

MikeGalos (3789 posts) Dec-20-02, 04:44 PM (ET) Reply to post #28 61. And this point is being actively ducked and nobody's noticing. Guess that people don't care about justifying murder around here.   Top

drdon326 (1046 posts) Dec-20-02, 11:50 AM (ET) Reply to post #7 10. Is it really ?!?! For some strange reason i knew you'd say that. Perhaps you can enlighten us. Name another country or group of people that 63% supported mindless suicide bombings?   Top

exlurker (79 posts) Dec-20-02, 12:32 PM (ET) Reply to post #7 18. Blowing up kids is understandable? How do you rationalize killing children to make a statement? Can you say why you think it's understanable to murder children?   Top

drdon326 (1046 posts) Dec-20-02, 12:33 PM (ET) Reply to post #18 19. Dont ask...you wont like the answer , trust me. .   Top

leave_no_millionaire_behind (2175 posts) Dec-20-02, 12:38 PM (ET) Reply to post #18 21. Many Israelis say the occupation is understandable, despite what it does to children. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MichiganDems/   Top

drdon326 (1046 posts) Dec-20-02, 12:39 PM (ET) Reply to post #21 23. Now try answering EX-LURKERS question to you. .   Top

YANG (5193 posts) Dec-20-02, 02:56 PM (ET) Reply to post #21 52. We are getting to what YOU are saying you are right here not this hypothetical "many Israelis". You said killing innocent, unarmed Jews isn't murder. ____________________________________ History teaches us that men and nations behave wisely when they have exhausted all other alternatives. Abba Eban (Born 1915) Things are more like they are now than they have ever been before. Dwight Eisenhower Reality is that, which when you no longer believe in it, it still exists. Phillip K. Dick   Top

MikeGalos (3789 posts) Dec-20-02, 03:01 PM (ET) Reply to post #52 54. And apparently stands by that but can't actually explain it. Perhaps it's some kind of statement of faith rather something requiring logic or thought.   Top

YANG (5193 posts) Dec-20-02, 01:03 PM (ET) Reply to post #7 29. Then you must be very "understanding" of the people who support transfer. I guess I am just a less understanding guy than you. I expect more from human beings in the 21st century. ____________________________________ History teaches us that men and nations behave wisely when they have exhausted all other alternatives. Abba Eban (Born 1915) Things are more like they are now than they have ever been before. Dwight Eisenhower Reality is that, which when you no longer believe in it, it still exists. Phillip K. Dick   Top

ad_jameson (1523 posts) Dec-20-02, 12:38 PM (ET) 22. Pray at Israeli checkpoints? So you mean Israel is still denying access to Bethlehem during Christmas? I thought they had promised the Pope to allow free access? Funny no mention of Sharon by name even though the quote mentions that the "leaders" should open the way to other leaders if peace is elusive. I'll agree to that.   Top

Forkboy (2317 posts) Dec-20-02, 07:28 PM (ET) 96. Wow 2 people's cred shot in one thread. Jem...that was slimy and lame. LNMB...what you said was even worse. To all the terror of fathers and kings To all the little dictators that shit on everything thats good To the whiners and the cryers, the screamers and the liars To the hypocrites who can't live up to all the things they talk about To the guilty and the proud I want to shout out loud No means no! - NoMeansNo   Top

MikeGalos (3789 posts) Dec-20-02, 10:07 PM (ET) Reply to post #96 116. The difference is Jem apologized. LNMB defended it.   Top

drdon326 (1046 posts) Dec-20-02, 10:33 PM (ET) Reply to post #116 120. Mike...I think LNMB is stuck with that. too bad.   Top

Forkboy (2317 posts) Dec-20-02, 10:59 PM (ET) Reply to post #116 121. Apologies after being caught dont carry much weight with me As for what LMNB said,and him defending it...I dont know what the fuck is going there Makes it hard to take much else seriously from anyone who can justify that statement.You wont see me defending that,and most of you know where I stand on the I/P issue. To all the terror of fathers and kings To all the little dictators that shit on everything thats good To the whiners and the cryers, the screamers and the liars To the hypocrites who can't live up to all the things they talk about To the guilty and the proud I want to shout out loud No means no! - NoMeansNo   Top

YANG (5193 posts)