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"Rumsfeld compares US actions to Third Reich"

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UpInArms Donating Member (556 posts) Click to EMail UpInArms Click to send private message to UpInArms Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Feb-05-02, 11:28 AM (ET)
"Rumsfeld compares US actions to Third Reich"
note to Moderators: this is a transcript from last night - if it does not qualify for LBN, please move to the appropriate Forum.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/military/jan-june02/rumsfeld_2-4.html

<snip>

JIM LEHRER: But if somebody were to look at this budget
- forget the money for a while - just look at what it buys,
does it buy anything that different than what we already
have?

DONALD RUMSFELD: Well, I think when you say "that
different," it's important to understand that you can -
when the Germans transformed their armed forces into
the Blitzkrieg, they transformed only about 5 or 10
percent of their force. Everything else was the same, but
they transformed the way they used it, the connectivity
between aircraft and forces on the ground, the
concentration of it in a specific portion of the line, and it
- one would not want to transform 100 percent of your
forces. You only need to transform a portion.

<snip>

UIA

"I want to know who the men in the shadows are
I want to hear somebody asking them why
They can be counted on to tell us who our enemies are
But they're never the ones to fight, to die
And there are lives in the balance
There are people under fire
There are children at the cannons
And there is blood on the wire"
Jackson Browne - Lives in the Balance

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  Table of Contents

  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
 they're not even hiding it anymore.. Aidoneus Feb-05-02 1
 How stupid are these people? Caliphoto Feb-05-02 2
   It's ruthless, not stupid Tigerlily 02/05/2002 3
 It is totally apalling that we have an admin embracing the... AP Feb-05-02 4
   Maybe it will wake people up? Tigerlily 02/05/2002 9
 NO! WRONG, sir! WRONG! Sagan Feb-05-02 5
   Blitzkrieg -- rummy misuded the word EXPAT 02/05/2002 11
       Do you really think so ExPat? Tigerlily 02/05/2002 14
   not to mention the fact that... tomp 02/05/2002 12
   This doesn't prove their stupid. It proves that they are... AP 02/05/2002 13
   With a little help from their friends Barrett808 02/05/2002 17
 Rumsfeld is too old for this work. randome Feb-05-02 6
 The blitzkriegs were horrific war strategies gasperc Feb-05-02 7
 Hitler didn't hide his intentions either. dmartini Feb-05-02 8
 did someone mention Reagan? harrie Feb-05-02 10
 *Die Wehrmacht*, nicht *Blitzkrieg* dummkopf Herr Rumsfeld! DemoTex Feb-05-02 15
 The forebears of the Bush Dynasty teryang Feb-05-02 16
 Rummy blows my mind Paschall Feb-05-02 18

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Messages in this topic

Aidoneus (1005 posts) Click to EMail Aidoneus Click to send private message to Aidoneus Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Feb-05-02, 11:30 AM (ET)
1. "they're not even hiding it anymore.."
LAST EDITED ON Feb-05-02 AT 11:31 AM (ET)

see also this thread about a picture that the MOONIE TIMES of all people used from Bush:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/cgi-bin/duforum/duboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=14043&forum=DCForumID35

"If I did well, then we'd keep silence;
If I did badly--then we'd laugh
And make it ever worse by laughing harder,
Till we climb into the grave."
--from 'Among Friends', Friedrich Nietzsche

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Caliphoto (427 posts) Click to EMail Caliphoto Click to send private message to Caliphoto Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Feb-05-02, 11:33 AM (ET)
2. "How stupid are these people?"
Or.. how ruthless are they? Can you even imgaine comparing ANYTHING you've done to the Third Reich? They oughta be muzzled like the mad dogs they are...
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Tigerlily Donating Member (2496 posts) Click to EMail Tigerlily Click to send private message to Tigerlily Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Feb-05-02, 11:36 AM (ET)
Reply to post #2
3. "It's ruthless, not stupid"
People had better wake up pretty soon or we are screwed.
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AP (810 posts) Click to EMail AP Click to send private message to AP Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Feb-05-02, 11:36 AM (ET)
4. "It is totally apalling that we have an admin embracing the..."
...the icnonography and the rhetoric of Nazi Germany. Was Reagan this bad?

You would think that embracing Hitler would be totally off limits. Not for Bush though.

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Tigerlily Donating Member (2496 posts) Click to EMail Tigerlily Click to send private message to Tigerlily Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Feb-05-02, 11:45 AM (ET)
Reply to post #4
9. "Maybe it will wake people up?"
I'd rather have it right out there, so that more people will know what we're up against.
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Sagan Donating Member (1001 posts) Click to EMail Sagan Click to send private message to Sagan Click to view user profile Click to send message via ICQ Click to check IP address of the poster
Feb-05-02, 11:39 AM (ET)
5. "NO! WRONG, sir! WRONG!"

"When the Germans transformed their armed forces into the Blitzkrieg"??? What kind of statement is that?

FIRST of all, Secretary Strangefeld, the Germans built up their military from SCRATCH during the 1930's. The Treaty of Versailles left Germany with practically nothing but an overarmed police force after World War I. They did NOT merely transform 5-10% of their force. They built a whole new national armed force FROM SCRATCH!

Second of all, the Germans were not only building a whole new Army, but they were also building an air force from scratch AND some very expensive warships.

THIRDLY, idiot, the Germans didn't turn their armed forces into "the Blitzkrieg"... What kind of moron says that? Blitzkrieg was a tactic, a strategy. Has he been taking language lessons from pResident Chimpy McCokespoon?

This whole interview is rife with blatant falsehoods from a military history standpoint. What a maroon.

"Unless Congress have and use every means of acquainting itself with the acts and the disposition of ... agents of the government, the country must be helpless to learn how it is being served; and unless Congress both scrutinize these things and sift them by every form of discussion, the country must remain in embarrassing, crippling ignorance of the very affairs which it is most important that it should understand and direct." -- Woodrow Wilson

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EXPAT (194 posts) Click to EMail EXPAT Click to send private message to EXPAT Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Feb-05-02, 11:48 AM (ET)
Reply to post #5
11. "Blitzkrieg -- rummy misuded the word"
"THIRDLY, idiot, the Germans didn't turn their armed forces into "the Blitzkrieg"... What kind of moron says that? Blitzkrieg was a tactic, a strategy. Has he been taking language lessons from pResident Chimpy McCokespoon?"


I thought rummy's statement was screwed up. Thanks for clearing up his idiotic rantings.

Amazing -- doesn't the fool know that a few people still read -- and there is the history channel for people who don't like to read.

EVERY DAY -- EVERY DAY -- they are becoming more and more obvious. The rest of the world has caught on -- big time.

expat

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Tigerlily Donating Member (2496 posts) Click to EMail Tigerlily Click to send private message to Tigerlily Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Feb-05-02, 12:02 PM (ET)
Reply to post #11
14. "Do you really think so ExPat?"
I hope so and I am wondering what the people at PBS are thinking right now?
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tomp (516 posts) Click to EMail tomp Click to send private message to tomp Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Feb-05-02, 11:55 AM (ET)
Reply to post #5
12. "not to mention the fact that..."
...the germans lost the war. whatever they did to their military, why would we want to emulate it?

and just for clarification, the only military engagement i want the u.s. to "win" is defensive engagement. i thoroughly support spending every penny we need to spend on defense, but ONLY on defense. i don't support this "war on terror", or any other war of offense, so i'm not interested in preparing the military to win it.

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AP (810 posts) Click to EMail AP Click to send private message to AP Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Feb-05-02, 12:00 PM (ET)
Reply to post #5
13. "This doesn't prove their stupid. It proves that they are..."
...intentionally bending over backward to associate themselves with Nazis, even if they have to lie to do so.

I am sure that Rummy wasn't sitting there mis-remembering. It's all part of a public relations strategy -- and Rummy is probably thought of as the number one propagandizer in the administration, given recent events. They're not wasting the opportunity by sending him out unprepared. He is very well prepared.

This is very disturbing.

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Barrett808 (69 posts) Click to EMail Barrett808 Click to send private message to Barrett808 Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Feb-05-02, 12:13 PM (ET)
Reply to post #5
17. "With a little help from their friends"
in the international banking community.
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randome (110 posts) Click to EMail randome Click to send private message to randome Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Feb-05-02, 11:40 AM (ET)
6. "Rumsfeld is too old for this work."
He should have retired long ago.
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gasperc (450 posts) Click to EMail gasperc Click to send private message to gasperc Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Feb-05-02, 11:41 AM (ET)
7. "The blitzkriegs were horrific war strategies"
These guys are obviously ruthlessly militaristic in thier vision and ambitions for our country. Just like a tiny minority gained power in Germany in the 1930's so has a tiny minority gained power in our country. Frustrated by obligations and necessaties of democracy which is to allow for equal and fair treatment to all of its citizens. Bush Inc. wants to just cater to the minority which elected it and supress the interests of the rest of us to which it sees no reason to recognize. We are paid lip service, " I beleive we can develop our natural resorces and protect the environment."G.W.Bush and the list goes on and on from social security to medicare to education to name the issue.
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dmartini (26 posts) Click to EMail dmartini Click to send private message to dmartini Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Feb-05-02, 11:42 AM (ET)
8. "Hitler didn't hide his intentions either."
If they aren't hiding it they must be cocksure that they are going to win this battle for the soul of our nation. Or that they already have won. If scandal doesn't bring them down we will need more dramatic action, i.e., take it to the streets, boycotts, etc..

"You're either for us, or against us." Commander-in-Thief
I think that says it all.

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harrie Donating Member (677 posts) Click to EMail harrie Click to send private message to harrie Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Feb-05-02, 11:46 AM (ET)
10. "did someone mention Reagan?"
Not as blatantly Nazi-style fascist, imho, but I do remember him (or Nancy) dressing up the "White House guards" and his visit to graves of dead SS at the Bittburg cemetery.

Thanks everyone above for cogent points.


Woman in audience: "Sir, ... I'm sure you'll get the vote of every thinking man and woman in America."
Adlai Stevenson II: "Thank you madame. But that won't be enough. You see, I need a majority."

"Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty."


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DemoTex Donating Member (1217 posts) Click to EMail DemoTex Click to send private message to DemoTex Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Feb-05-02, 12:05 PM (ET)
15. "*Die Wehrmacht*, nicht *Blitzkrieg* dummkopf Herr Rumsfeld!"
Sagan is right. Die Wehrmacht -- the German military machine -- was built from scratch following the abrogation of the Treaty of Versailles (T.O.V.). The Luftwaffe is a good case in point. The T.O.V. proscribed Germany from training any pilots in airplanes after WWI. However, the Germans trained many, many pilots in gliders. When Hitler abrogated the T.O.V., those glider pilots formed a ready-made nucleus for the formation of the formidable Luftwaffe. The "Blitzkreig" was indeed a military tactic based on swift, sudden, and overwhelming offensive attack. It is curious that Secretary of War Rumsfeld does not, apparently, know the distinction.

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teryang (346 posts) Click to EMail teryang Click to send private message to teryang Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Feb-05-02, 12:09 PM (ET)
16. "The forebears of the Bush Dynasty"
...supported the Nazis financially before and during WWII. After the war, our political elites brought many Nazi intelligence and military research and development personnel back to the US. Today, the corporatists who support the Bush regime will admit in moments of unguarded candor, that they admire the Nazis, their organization and their war machine. Rumsfeld in his complete idiocy has revealed the truth about himself and the administration. Remember dumya's joke about dictatorship early in the takeover?
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Paschall (2167 posts) Click to EMail Paschall Click to send private message to Paschall Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Feb-05-02, 12:17 PM (ET)
18. "Rummy blows my mind"
"I think it's almost inappropriate to look at dollars. I think that - that transformation is not an event; it is a process. It is something that involves a mind set, an attitude, a culture. It is something that, for example, might not even involve a new weapons system. It might just be the connectivity among existing weapons systems. It might be a different way of organizing or fighting, as we found in Afghanistan."

A different way of organizing or fighting. THAT's what we found in Afghanistan? Could Rumsfeld please be more specific. To anyone who was paying attention, it looked like we bombed the shit out of the Taliban and moved in when it was "safest," worked with the locals to organize a little "urban warfare" in the ruins, then swept up the dust.

Afghanistan is the fifth poorest nation in the world and about the size of Texas. It had virtually no airforce and few armored vehicles. And had a "fighting force" of only 10-20,000. But we unleashed how many thousands of bombs from combat jets and B52s, and cruise missles on them? We used how many intelligence-collecting drones and satellites? Coordinated operations on how many outlying bases and ships?

In the Taliban camp, they had a few computers, but probably not a single network; and their "imaging technology" was no more sophisticated than a home video camera. Their most complex communication system was comprised of cellphones, which were taken out in a matter of hours! Please!

Compared to the countries overrun by the Germans in World War II, Afghanistan was nothing. Not even a blip on the radar against US fire power. If we learned anything in Afghanistan it's that we can count on whipping the ass of any country about 100,000 times weaker than ourselves. We had our Blitzkrieg!

Of course, you might say Rummy just mentioned the Blitzkrieg to illustrate the notion of military upgrading. But how can we overlook the fact that, when they made those changes, the Germans were preparing an aggressive war of destruction and conquest? Or the fact that, despite Germany's technological superiority at the beginning of World War II, Britain held fast with sharply reduced resources, and that ultimately the "most powerful" fell? Is Rummy urging us to *admire* Hitler's army?

Mrs. Rumsfeld, will you please slap Donald--hard!--when he comes in tonight?

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