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Open Edit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 06:31 AM
Original message
Bin Laden communications
Edited on Mon Oct-04-10 06:22 AM by eridani
This new topic is awaiting edits. It was started by eridani.

We need to compile all the information we have discussing the authenticity of post 9-11 bin Laden communications. On the most recent audio, I wrote a letter to a voicemorphing expert, no reply yet.

Someone with some real expertise ought to follow this up. We've been letting them get away Shrubbie being wires for the debates and several possible fake Osama tapes. It's about time this shit got exposed. If analysis reveals that the tapes really are from a live OBL, then we need to know that, too. If he speaks both English and Arabic, and wanted to address both Americans and his Arabic-speaking supporters, why wouldn't he just make two tapes?



Some voice morphing programs now available:

http://www.sonicstate.com/news/shownews.cfm?newsid=1561
http://www.vocaloid.com/en/introduction.html
http://www.ircam.fr/288.html?&L=1&tx_ircam_pi2
http://www.public-action.com/911/voice-simulation /
http://www.telecom.tuc.gr/~ntsourak/tutorial_synthesis ....

January 20, 2006

George Papcun
Sound Evidence
1081 Buckman Road
Santa Fe, NM 87501

Dear Mr. Papcun:

This is in regard to the recent bin Laden audio tape, which quite a few people suspect may possibly be a product of voice-morphing. You were interviewed by the Washington Post on this technology seven years ago.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/dotmil/ar...


"Gentlemen! We have called you together to inform you that we are going to overthrow the United States government." So begins a statement being delivered by Gen. Carl W. Steiner, former Commander-in-chief, U.S. Special Operations Command.

At least the voice sounds amazingly like him.

But it is not Steiner. It is the result of voice "morphing" technology developed at the Los Alamos National Laboratory in New Mexico.

By taking just a 10-minute digital recording of Steiner's voice, scientist George Papcun is able, in near real time, to clone speech patterns and develop an accurate facsimile. Steiner was so impressed, he asked for a copy of the tape.

Steiner was hardly the first or last victim to be spoofed by Papcun's team members. To refine their method, they took various high quality recordings of generals and experimented with creating fake statements. One of the most memorable is Colin Powell stating "I am being treated well by my captors."

"They chose to have him say something he would never otherwise have said," chuckled one of Papcun's colleagues.


There is some disagreement among experts as to the identity of the voice on the current bin Laden tapel

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4628738.stm


CIA analysts have concluded the voice on the tape was that of Bin Laden, making it the first time he has been heard from since December 2004.

However, other analysts familiar with Bin Laden's voice are divided as to whether the voice really is his.


Furthermore, at least one native speaker of Arabic familiar with bin Ladenís tapes thinks the original speech was written in English. Since bin Laden can speak English and was supposedly addressing Americans, why go through this rigamarole? Why no mention of Allah, specifically? Can you think of any other actors on the world stage who might write a bin Laden speech in English who would benefit politically from its appearance at the present time? Like for instance, an American administration needing justification for its proposal to permanently impose the of invasion of the privacy of its citizens as the new norm in violation of longstanding constitutional norms?

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/terrorism/jan-june06/osa...


MAMOUN FANDY: Right, but this particular tape is not terribly inspiring, just looking at the language of it. This is the first tape of bin Laden that has no single verse from the Koran. It does not have the flowery language of Arabic.

It seems to me that it is written in English first, and then translated into Arabic. It is very western style of tape. It is not very characteristic of bin Laden, at least it tells me that the non-Arabic speaking within the al-Qaida network are taking over the organization Ė

JIM LEHRER: You mean he didn't write this is what you are suggesting?

MAMOUN FANDY: The Arabic speakers in al-Qaida, the parts that are coming from the Arab world, are losing to the non-Arabic speaker, so it's really becoming more of a South Asian organization, rather than an Arab organization.


The notion that our government might be using your technology to play tricks like this on the public is an outrage. As a professional, you ought to be concerned about the issue of the misuse of a tool that you have developed. Surely the use of morphing technology would leave a signature on an audio tape that you would be able to detect. If it is possible to do so using a tape of a tape, the bin Laden broadcast is publicly available, and I suggest that you have at it at once. If voice morphing was not used, we ought to have public documentation of that fact as well.

Sincerely,


Another Arabic language specialist weighs in. I will also write to him.

http://www.madison.com/tct/opinion/column/index.php?nti...

The trouble is, it's all based on a Big Lie. Take the recent "bin Laden" tape please! That voice was no more bin Laden than it was Rodney Dangerfield channeling my late Aunt Corinne from Peoria. I recently helped translate a previously unknown bin Laden tape, a real one from the early '90s, back when he was still alive. I know the guy's flowery religious rhetoric. The recent tape wasn't him.

The top American bin Laden expert agrees. Professor Bruce Lawrence, head of Duke University's religious studies department, has just published a book of translations of bin Laden's speeches. He says that the recent tape is a fake and that it is possible bin Laden is not even alive.

Fake bin Laden tapes, "verified" by the CIA, are nothing new. Every supposed bin Laden statement since 2001 has been blatantly bogus. The last we heard from the real bin Laden came in his post-9/11 statements to Pakistani journalists: "I stress that I have not carried out this act, which appears to have been carried out by individuals with their own motivation. ... I have already said that I am not involved in the 11 September attacks in the United States. ... I had no knowledge of these attacks."



kevin{at} mujca.com

Kevin Barrett




The Talk Box is for comments. Please include your username.
an audio-only tape is not worth much, IMO.
also,I would tend to believe 'negative' evidence, that something
is a forgery, a lot more than just some supposed expert
claimimg this or that is legit.
Keep in mind that Westerners might not be the intended ausdience.
Lots of people disappear and are never heard from. rfkrfk

Agreed. However, to people fluent in Arabic, it sounds like it had been written in English first and then translated into Arabic. None of the religious rhetoric that he would be expected to use in talking to followers. An offer of truce is certainly intended for Westerners, no?

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/18750
An overview of bin Ladenís history, reviewing Professor Lawrenceís book, which does not mention that the author of the book thinks that bin Laden is dead. I submitted the following LTE.


February 20, 2006

To the editor:

Max Rodenbeckís article in the March 9, 2006 edition of NYR was a good overview of bin Ladenís past history. However, Iím wondering on what basis he thinks that bin Laden is still alive. In 1999, the Washington Post interviewed a voicemorphing expert.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/dotmil/ar...

"Gentlemen! We have called you together to inform you that we are going to overthrow the United States government." So begins a statement being delivered by Gen. Carl W. Steiner, former Commander-in-chief, U.S. Special Operations Command.

At least the voice sounds amazingly like him.

But it is not Steiner. It is the result of voice "morphing" technology developed at the Los Alamos National Laboratory in New Mexico.

By taking just a 10-minute digital recording of Steiner's voice, scientist George Papcun is able, in near real time, to clone speech patterns and develop an accurate facsimile. Steiner was so impressed, he asked for a copy of the tape.

Steiner was hardly the first or last victim to be spoofed by Papcun's team members. To refine their method, they took various high quality recordings of generals and experimented with creating fake statements. One of the most memorable is Colin Powell stating "I am being treated well by my captors."

"They chose to have him say something he would never otherwise have said," chuckled one of Papcun's colleagues.



So, granting that the CIA identified bin Ladenís voice on the tape, we still cannot conclude that he actually made the recording. And they may be wrong on thisóthere is some disagreement among experts as to the identity of the voice on the current bin Laden tape.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4628738.stm

CIA analysts have concluded the voice on the tape was that of Bin Laden, making it the first time he has been heard from since December 2004.

However, other analysts familiar with Bin Laden's voice are divided as to whether the voice really is his.


Furthermore, at least one native speaker of Arabic familiar with bin Ladenís tapes thinks the original speech was written in English. Since bin Laden can speak English and was supposedly addressing Americans, why go through this rigamarole? Why no mention of Allah, specifically? Can you think of any other actors on the world stage who might write a bin Laden speech in English who would benefit politically from its appearance at the present time? Like for instance, an American administration needing justification for its proposal to permanently impose the invasion of the privacy of its citizens as the new norm in violation of longstanding constitutional norms?

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/terrorism/jan-june06/osa...

MAMOUN FANDY: Right, but this particular tape is not terribly inspiring, just looking at the language of it. This is the first tape of bin Laden that has no single verse from the Koran. It does not have the flowery language of Arabic.

It seems to me that it is written in English first, and then translated into Arabic. It is very western style of tape. It is not very characteristic of bin Laden, at least it tells me that the non-Arabic speaking within the al-Qaida network are taking over the organization Ė

JIM LEHRER: You mean he didn't write this is what you are suggesting?

MAMOUN FANDY: The Arabic speakers in al-Qaida, the parts that are coming from the Arab world, are losing to the non-Arabic speaker, so it's really becoming more of a South Asian organization, rather than an Arab organization.


Other experts in the Arabic language are close to 100% certain that the most recent tapes cannot possibly be bin Laden, including the author of one of the books under review! Certainly this fact should have been mentioned, donít you think?

http://www.madison.com/tct/opinion/column/index.php?nti...

The trouble is, it's all based on a Big Lie. Take the recent "bin Laden" tape please! That voice was no more bin Laden than it was Rodney Dangerfield channeling my late Aunt Corinne from Peoria. I recently helped translate a previously unknown bin Laden tape, a real one from the early '90s, back when he was still alive. I know the guy's flowery religious rhetoric. The recent tape wasn't him.

The top American bin Laden expert agrees. Professor Bruce Lawrence, head of Duke University's religious studies department, has just published a book of translations of bin Laden's speeches. He says that the recent tape is a fake and that it is possible bin Laden is not even alive.

Fake bin Laden tapes, "verified" by the CIA, are nothing new. Every supposed bin Laden statement since 2001 has been blatantly bogus. The last we heard from the real bin Laden came in his post-9/11 statements to Pakistani journalists: "I stress that I have not carried out this act, which appears to have been carried out by individuals with their own motivation. ... I have already said that I am not involved in the 11 September attacks in the United States. ... I had no knowledge of these attacks."



Surely the use of morphing technology would leave a signature on an audio tape that could be detected by experts such as Dr. Papcun. We now require a new class of public functionary, similar to a notary public, to verify that audio, video and graphic evidence has not been altered.

If voice morphing was not used on any of the recent tapes, we ought to have public documentation of that fact as well. If bin Laden has terminal kidney disease, he would have to be in Saudi Arabia or Pakistan for access to adequate medical facilities. Iím wondering why Mr. Rodenbeck has not speculated on bin Ladenís current whereabouts.

Sincerely,



WRH is not allowed for use as a source on DU.

Lithos
DU Moderator


Link to the Madison paper is dead. Here is a replacement--http://www.unknownnews.org/060214a-Barrett.html

Also, and article by Robert Parry, with lots of street cred as a non-bought journalist, thinks he is alive. I'm writing the same letter to him. Neither Barrett nor I have received answers from NYR.
http://www.consortiumnews.com/2006/072406.html

Since an American video expert has demonstrated that Al Qaeda can alter their videos, obviously we can do it too.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2007/08/al-qaeda-vi...

Media and terrorism experts alike have remarked on the increasing sophistication of al Qaeda propaganda videos that continue to be released by the group's media wing, as Sahab.

One computer expert, however, has conducted extensive image analysis on many of the videos and concluded that in many cases the tapes were likely doctored to give a false impression of the speaker's location.

Neal Krawetz, founder of Hacker Factor, a computer security and consulting firm, created a computer program which he uses to analyze screen frames from various al Qaeda videos, including those of al Qaeda No. 2 Ayman al Zawahri and American al Qaeda commander Adam Gadahn. His software suggests that in many cases the sophisticated backgrounds were likely added after the video of the speaker was recorded.



More on SITE--
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/100907A.shtml

A small private intelligence company that monitors Islamic terrorist groups obtained a new Osama bin Laden video ahead of its official release last month, and around 10 a.m. on Sept. 7, it notified the Bush administration of its secret acquisition. It gave two senior officials access on the condition that the officials not reveal they had it until the al-Qaeda release.

Within 20 minutes, a range of intelligence agencies had begun downloading it from the company's Web site. By midafternoon that day, the video and a transcript of its audio track had been leaked from within the Bush administration to cable television news and broadcast worldwide.

The founder of the company, the SITE Intelligence Group, says this premature disclosure tipped al-Qaeda to a security breach and destroyed a years-long surveillance operation that the company has used to intercept and pass along secret messages, videos and advance warnings of suicide bombings from the terrorist group's communications network.

"Techniques that took years to develop are now ineffective and worthless," said Rita Katz, the firm's 44-year-old founder, who has garnered wide attention by publicizing statements and videos from extremist chat rooms and Web sites, while attracting controversy over the secrecy of SITE's methodology. Her firm provides intelligence about terrorist groups to a wide range of paying clients, including private firms and military and intelligence agencies from the United States and several other countries.

Down-loadable copies of some of the real Al-Quida videos at the Internet Movie Database:
http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=creator%3A%22As...


2009 tape is again audio only--


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7829716.stm
The 22-minute audio message entitled "A call for jihad to stop the aggression on Gaza" appeared on Islamist websites on Wednesday.

BBC security correspondent Frank Gardner says the voice is the same, if sounding a little tired, but the message from the world's number-one fugitive is right up to date.



http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
http://www.boomantribune.com/story/2007/9/9/61032/95401

Osama Bin Laden's widely publicized video address to the American people has a peculiarity that casts serious doubt on its authenticity: the video freezes at about 1 minute and 36 58 seconds, and motion only resumes again at 12:30. The video then freezes again at 14:02 remains frozen until the end. All references to current events, such as the 62nd anniversary of the U.S. atomic bombing of Japan, and Sarkozy and Brown being the leaders of France and the UK, respectively, occur when the video is frozen! The words spoken when the video is in motion contain no references to contemporary events and could have been (and likely were) made before the U.S. invasion of Iraq.

The audio track does appear to be in the voice of a single speaker. What I suspect was done is that an older, unreleased video was dubbed over for this release, with the video frozen when the audio track departed from that of the original video.

The video may be downloaded as a 677 mb MPEG file here.

http://ia341242.us.archive.org.nyud.net/3/items/aqAQq/s...


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