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Was there an age requirement for Obama's mother to pass citizenship to him in 1961?

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LLStarks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 12:56 PM
Original message
Was there an age requirement for Obama's mother to pass citizenship to him in 1961?
Isn't anyone born on US soil a natural-born citizen or was the law different back then?
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rfranklin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 12:58 PM
Response to Original message
1. He was born in the USA...that is all that counts...
can we all let it drop now?
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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #1
46. He could have been born on the moon and he would still be a natural born citizen.
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Ganja Ninja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 12:58 PM
Response to Original message
2. Age of the mother is not an issue.
Born on America soil is all that matters.
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CaliforniaPeggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. If the parent is an American, and she was.........
That's all that matters.

He could have been born on the freaking moon.

His mom was a citizen; therefore, he is a citizen too.

You're right: The mom's age is not a factor.

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hifiguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #6
16. 100% correct CaliforniaPeggy!
Give yourself a gold star and take a drink out of petty cash. :)
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Lone_Star_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #6
19. You would be amazed how many people I've spoken to who do not know this simple fact.
I was shocked my own self at the amount of people who are really that clueless in regards to citizenship in their own country.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #6
21. I know a child born here to a Japanese mother and Argentine father.
Her passport is American. SHE WAS BORN HERE. But since her mom wasn't and isn't a citizen, they have a very peripatetic life getting permission to be together in one country or another.
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #6
22. Not true
My oldest sister was born in New York when my parents were returning home after WW2. Neither parent was American and she was always treated as a natural born American.
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CaliforniaPeggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #22
45. My dear malaise!
I should have said that this is true too! Being born here to foreign parents is the other way to become an American.

There are TWO ways. Born in the actual country, or having an American parent.



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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #6
47. lol! I just posted about even if he was being born on the moon without seeing your post first!
:rofl:
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NoGOPZone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 12:59 PM
Response to Original message
3. The 14th Amendment hasn't changed much since then. nt
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 12:59 PM
Response to Original message
4. No. (nt)
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Capitalocracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 01:00 PM
Response to Original message
5. Pulled out of unknown right-wing orifices.
Completely invented. No law ever in the United States addressed any such issue. Birthright citizenship is in the Constitution and no age is mentioned.
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gkhouston Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 01:03 PM
Response to Original message
7. No. If that were the case, don't you think the birthers would have been touting
that all this time instead of yammering about which birth certificates do and don't count? :crazy:
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snooper2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 01:03 PM
Response to Original message
8. how old was your mom when she had you?
If she was under the age of 30 you are actually a Canuck...

So get North of the border where you belong :rofl:
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a la izquierda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #8
40. Fan-freakin'-tastic!
My mom was 22. I'm outta here, eh!
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quinnox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 01:03 PM
Response to Original message
9. Yes, have to be at least 80 years old
Its a very strict "age requirement".

<rolls eyes>
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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 01:03 PM
Response to Original message
10. So is that the latest dumbshit theory from freeperland?
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abelenkpe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 01:05 PM
Response to Original message
11. Is this the latest spin? nt
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demwing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 01:08 PM
Response to Original message
12. It might have been a factor, IF Obama was born outside the US
but he wasn't, so it ain't :)

Now what you WILL hear next, and it's already begun, is that Obama's father was not a citizen, and that BOTH parents must be citizens, even for a child born in the states.

Nonsense.

Subsection (e) of Section 1401 of the pertinent code clearly says otherwise.

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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. Wasn't McCain the one born outside the US?
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #15
54. He was born in the Canal Zone, which meant he was born a citizen
so long as he had a citizen parent. So he's the one whose parents' citizenship mattered, ironically. Yet never has any birther wanted to see his parental units' birth certificates!
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #54
58. There is one oddity I found when we were playing around with this one
In his bio, it says he was born at "....." hospital in Coco Solo..and when you research the hospital , it was built a few years after he was born there :rofl:

I have been to Coco Solo.. It was not much back when I was there, so in the early 30's it would have been little more than a mosquito-infested backwater base.. It's actually highly likely that if his mother had problems with the pregnancy, she MIGHT have been taken offbase to deliver...as was the case in 1955 when my mother gave birth to my brother in an out-of the Canal Zone hospital. My brother had dual citizenship since he was born off base.

Back in the McCain birth days, the US ran the whole place, so of course his birth certificate was probably "filled in" , back on base.. Women routinely died in childbirth back then, and some shifty little navy base may have not been the actual birthplace.. who knows? and it really should not even matter.

I would like to see this "natural-born" stuff decided once & for all, and spelled out to the letter. In this day and age, I don;t see why naturalized citizens should be barred either.. If one is naturalized, and has been a citizen for at least 20 years, they should be eligible as well.
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librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 01:09 PM
Response to Original message
13. wow. NO!
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BobbyBoring Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #13
20. That's Fake!
Birth certs aren't green, they are white (I did hear that today).

If they had a camera in the delivery room and showed Obama coming out of moms womb, it wouldn't be enough.
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Capitalocracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. Not even if you could see palm trees and coconuts
through the hospital window in the video.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 01:20 PM
Response to Original message
14. Why is this ridiculous garbage being discussed?
ANYONE BORN ON US SOIL IS A CITIZEN. PERIOD.
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demwing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. That's not 100% correct:
Edited on Wed Apr-27-11 01:45 PM by demwing
the lawa says :

"The following shall be nationals and citizens of the United States at birth:
(a) a person born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof;"

and then goes on to list several subsection where "nationals and citizens of the United States at birth" can apply outside of US soil.

The question thats going to be asked by the Afterbirthers is this "What does 'and subject to the jurisdiction thereof' mean?"
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. "A person born in the United States."
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demwing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #18
25. AND "subject to the jurisdiction thereof"
Edited on Wed Apr-27-11 01:53 PM by demwing
Now I have no idea what that fully means from a legal perspective, but I DON'T think it means Obama isn't a citizen at birth.

What I DO know is that the US Code says that there are two criteria under Title 8, Chapter 12, Subchapter III, Part I, Section 1401, Subsection (a),
and that being born in the United States is only the first.

http://law.justia.com/codes/us/title8/8usc1401.html

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ecstatic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. (Sigh). I'm not a lawyer, but I think
the meaning of this statement:

"The following shall be nationals and citizens of the United States at birth:
(a) a person born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof;"


is simply saying that people born in the United States who are required to followed the laws of the United States are citizens at birth. Basically the "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" appears to be a redundant remark (because obviously someone born here will be subjected to US laws).
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demwing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #27
30. (sigh) I can think of one example, already given in this thread
Edited on Wed Apr-27-11 02:10 PM by demwing
The child of an ambassador w/ diplomatic immunilty.

Is that the only example? I don't know (sigh) that's why I asked (sigh)...
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Solomon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #30
34. dAMN!!! iS THERE ANY DOUBT IN YOUR MIND that if you're
born in the United States, that you are subject to the jurisdiction of the United States?

Jeez Looueeze.

Even if you're just friking here, you are "subject to the jurisdiction" of.


For chrissakes.
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ecstatic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #30
35. an enemy combatant's child nt
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Capitalocracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #17
24. My understanding is that it has to do with children of ambassadors
With diplomatic immunity? Their children don't count as U.S. citizens if born on U.S. soil.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #24
33. It's also there for the children of parents from countries that preclude dual citizenship
so that the parents can give them citizenship of their own countries.
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CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #17
50. you're the constutional expert here, which is supreme, that law or the 14th Amendment?
Amendment 14 - Citizenship Rights. Ratified 7/9/1868. Note History

1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
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demwing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #50
60. I guess that my timing on this is bad
because of the birth certificate announcement today. This question is setting off a level of response that I just did not expect. Nothing horribly negative, I'm just surprised by the fact that some people have shown a bit of frustration over my comments.

I tend to deal with my own frustration over things that I can't control, by focusing on things that I can solve. Or at least try to solve, with a little help from DU.

First, let me answer you: When there is conflict, Constitution trumps legislation. My guess is that you just wanted to see me to write that, maybe because you just didn't think I was getting something that was painfully obvious to you. But the US Code on naturalization quotes the 14th amendment as its base line for citizenship, then elaborates from there, being more inclusive than the constitution on what establishes a "citizen at birth," so there's no conflict between the two - just a lack of clarity.

Second, having stated all of the above, I would still like to know the answer to my question, if anyone knows it.

The US Code, and the 14th Amendment, state that persons born or naturalized in the United States AND "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" are considered citizens at birth.

That's TWO criteria:

1. born or naturalized in the United States
2. subject to the jurisdiction thereof

If I'm incorrect there, if those are not two separate requirements, please straighten me out.

Otherwise, it's a simply drawn conclusion that there must be a group, or groups of people who were born in the United States who are NOT "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" and therefore are not US citizens at birth.

Some DUers have put forward the very reasonable explanation that the requirement refers to the children of Ambassadors, or of resident aliens that choose to maintain sole citizenship with their nation of birth. Does anyone here know if there are other groups or individuals that may have been born here, but are not considered citizens at birth? Has the SCOTUS ever ruled on this, or is there any other case law that could clarify?

peace...
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 01:50 PM
Response to Original message
26. No such requirement exists. Birth on US soil to ANY parents of ANY
citizenship confers full legal citizenship at birth.

Which the RW ought to know, because it is their pet peeve about illegal immigrants - coming across the border to give birth to "anchor babies".
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demwing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. OK, lets clear this up
The consensus here seems to be that if you're born here, you're a citizen. I am completely open to that.

But US Code Title 8, Chapter 12, Subchapter III, Part I, Section 1401, Subsection (a) has two pieces:

To be considered a be national and citizen of the United States at birth, you must be

1. born in the United States
2. and subject to the jurisdiction thereof

Explain #2. When is a person who is born in the US NOT subject to the jurisdiction thereof?

I am not a lawyer, I don't play one on TV, but I want to understand this bit going forward.

Who here knows the truth?

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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. Any person in the United States or its territories is "subject to the jurisdictions thereof."
Edited on Wed Apr-27-11 02:14 PM by blondeatlast
The Constitution is NOT limited to US citizens, neither are any US laws. Surprising, I know, but true.

It's addressing children who might, for whatever reason, choose not be citizens if born here--ie, those from countries that preclude dual citizenship, like India once did. My ex-husband 's family chose to give him Indian citizenship because he couldn't have both.
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demwing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #31
38. I know the constitution is not limited to citizens, but some laws ARE
Edited on Wed Apr-27-11 03:08 PM by demwing
For instance, the US jurisdiction regarding a ban on travel to Cuba does not include Canada. Canadians are not subject to this law.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #38
43. You're really straining. Wow. "Jurisdiction" has a distinct legal meaning.
And the way you are using it isn't it.

Laws don't have jurisdiction. Entities do.
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demwing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #43
48. OMG! Wow!
Edited on Wed Apr-27-11 03:26 PM by demwing
I know I've amazed you. I get it. I've corrected the grammar in that post. Care to check my spelling now :)

Instead, why not just offer your constructive input? If you can answer the question from the original post without an extra serving of snark, great. If not, then don't bother.

peace...

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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #48
51. Many besides me have answered it, but keep on keepin' on. nt
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demwing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #51
55. So the answer is "No"
you can't answer without the snark

And, like me, you don't know the definitive answer either.
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #29
56. I don't know. I only know that as long as the US has existed, birth on US soil
has conferred automatic citizenship. Your legal hairsplitting notwithstanding.

Why don't you contact the State Department with your questions? They are the experts in citizenship law.
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demwing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #56
61. Jesus, why is this "hairsplitting"?
It's not like I'm dancing around on what the definition of "Is" is...

This is a legitimate question, and I thought for sure that someone on DU must know the answer.
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 02:01 PM
Response to Original message
28. shirley, you jest
oy
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 02:15 PM
Response to Original message
32. No one ever asks white dudes, so my guess is no. n/t
n/t
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Skidmore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 02:20 PM
Response to Original message
36. Do you know how many people born in this country to
parents who were immigrants would not be considered citizens? I'd wager we have members of congress who would be moved over to the "illegal" category. Hell, if you can castigate the President as being an "illegal" by virtue of the fact that ONE of his parents was not a citizen, then you're well on your way to declaring whole groups illegitimate, including my children. I was born in this nation and descend from families who fought in the Revolution. But my children were from a marriage to an immigrant. This is bullshit of the first order and anyone denying citizenship is the right of any born on US soil is not only a birther but a teabagger as well, in my opinion.
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fishwax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 02:24 PM
Response to Original message
37. the mother had to be a U.S. citizen plus a resident for 5 years, including 2 years after age 14
I'm stating that from memory, but I'm fairly certain that was the requirement at the time. So even if he hadn't been born in Hawaii, he would be a natural born citizen under the law.
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demwing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #37
39. Thats only for children born outside the country, and after 1986.
Before 1986 it was "resident for ten years, 5 of which had to be after the 14th birthday."
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fishwax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #39
42. you're right about 1986--thanks for the correction n/t
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CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 02:30 PM
Response to Original message
41. no shame
:wtf:
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #41
44. It's unreal. nt
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Fire1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 02:58 PM
Response to Original message
49. Good grief.
:nuke:
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Courtesy Flush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 05:42 PM
Response to Original message
52. That's only if he's born overseas.
Born to an American parent overseas, requires certain years of recent residency. That requirement is not an issue for someone born in America.
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 05:48 PM
Response to Original message
53. It was in that she could not have passed it on had he been born somewhere else
But he was born in the US, so it doesn't matter.

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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #53
59. And what is the source of this?
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-28-11 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #59
62. It's the law as it was at that time
Now, it's been liberalized, so that her being only 18, still having grown up in the US, she could have passed it on - that is, had he been born in another country.
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 06:02 PM
Response to Original message
57. No. Republicans JUST MAKE UP CRAP.
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