Problems with workplace drug tests - medical info

[Yo_Mama]

First, you can test positive for illegal drugs and nicotine without ever using them.

Also you can test positive for opiates by eating foods with poppy seeds in them.

For nicotine, it occurs in commonly eaten foods like potatoes, peppers, some tomato products and eggplants:
http://forums.webmd.com/3/smoking-cessation-exchange/forum/535

I wanted to post this as a separate thread because I am concerned about the increased incidence of drug testing in employment. A lot of people don't know the risks.

Not only that, but one false positive test result can follow you and be used as a reason to deny employment years later:
http://www.plansponsor.com/Failed_Drug_Test_Can_Haunt_Applicants_Later.aspx

The general quality of the drug testing labs is highly suspect, and there are multiple other legal drugs that can cause false positives:
http://www.askdocweb.com/falsepositives.html

For example, the antibiotic Cipro can cause you to test positive for opiates. Amoxicillin can cause a false positive for cocaine.

Note that the two links I have posted are from medical web sites. I strongly recommend that those who support drugtesting rethink their position, and that those who are subjected to it review these lists, make sure that they disclose before the test ANY drug (note that many of these are OTCs) they have taken in the last six months, and ask their company for the name of the lab and its federal certification status.

I am greatly concerned that people are being unfairly denied employment.

[rustydog]

1. When one conducts drug screen tests, there are questions

one of them is: have you eaten anything containing poppy seeds?
Are you taking any prescription medications?

[Yo_Mama]

4. Please review the list of known false indicators

You will notice that a lot of them are related to OTC drugs such as:
Zantac: methamphetamines
Vicks Inhaler, Vicks Nyquil: Ecstasy
Tylenol Sinus: Amphetamines and Ecstasy
Ibuprofen, Excedrin IB: Marijuana

Diabetics are known to throw false positives for a number of drugs. Those with liver disease may also do so.

There are hundreds of drugs on the list at the second link. Please scroll through them.

[TorchTheWitch]

8. OTC meds are also requested to be listed

I distinctly remember this from the one time that I had to do a piss test for a job. I had to list that I was using as Vicks inhaler to unstuff my nose. Good thing they make you list absolutely everything whether prescription or OTC as I never in a million years would have thought they could detect a Vicks inhaler let alone that it might mean something. I always thought a Vicks inhaler was nothing more than menthol.

I'm against drug testing for employment on principle and I believe it's a violation of medical privacy rights. I felt like a criminal doing the test and I was not at all happy about having to reveal the anti-anxiety med I take as it's not something I would have wanted the company to know about.

[WingDinger]

13. In hauling my tools in, I strained my back, then took Ibuprofen.

After working two weeks, they tested me pre employment. Tested positive for pot. Fired that moment. Then, I was hounded by unemployment. They asked if I had done pot. If I had, I would then starve. So, you had better lie, if you want to continue eating.

FUCK this system. Now, under one strike, I will likely have that available to all I would interview with.

[Yo_Mama]

25. Yeah, you will

If someone had enough money, a foundation could set a blind test for a bunch of college law professors. After a bunch of them had tested positive for various substances they did not use, a real war in the courts would ensue.

But college professors don't give a crap about a carpenter or a customer service person. No one cares that people's lives are being destroyed on false premises.

What really kills me, given the drug-testing trend and the SS proposed changes, is to imagine a bunch of elderly people who can't find work because they test positive for substances they did not use. As you get older, the number of people taking things like Aleve or ibuprofen for arthritis rockets up.

And the real joke is that you are better off with a prescription drug; you have better legal grounds for challenge and more documentation.

It is incredibly important to write down all the OTC meds you take if you may be exposed to these drugs. Just forgetting to list one can mean the difference between employment and nonemployment.

[reggie the dog]

47. the idea that using pot or mdma or lsd whill prevent you from doing

a good job is a false premises. how else can you explain that work gets done here in europe where drug testing is nearly non existant?

[Curmudgeoness]

24. This should be true, but it just isn't.

I have been drug tested in the past, and had absolutely no questions about anything except if I was "taking any medications". Not past tense. Not anything about what I may or may not have eaten. No OTC questions.

There was little more than "here, pee in this cup".

[Yo_Mama]

27. Not all programs are the same quality

And the labs used are of varying quality as well.

Even if they don't ask you about OTC questions, you must list them anyway. This gives you grounds to challenge.

[Brickbat]

2. I have seen drug tests used as a way to protect a company from liability that has nothing to do with

workers under the influence. It has everything to do with covering the company's ass.

[H2O Man]

3. I strongly suggest

reading Abbie Hoffman'a last book, "Steal This Urine Test." (I have an autographed copy.)

[jdlh8894]

5. First,DO NOT pee in a cup!!

If they want a test,let them take blood.

[DirkGently]

6. Workplace safety is not the goal in my opinion. It's a way to threaten & disempower workers.

[Brickbat]

10. Agreed.

[Johonny]

12. I agree, I see it as more a con by consultants

consultants need "new" ideas to sell CEOs. Drug testing is just part of the consulting con game in my opinion. I've never seen any economic reports showing positive economic impact or increased productivity from these tests. So why do them? Well company A is doing them, so isn't B, why aren't you? There's a lot of pointless "value added" consultants selling bad ideas to corporate management. I'm always amazed people "good" at business are constantly suckered to do new programs like drug testing without seeing solid economic evidence of the program working, and understanding if that model fits their company.

[WingDinger]

14. WRONG! It is a requirement from the Work comp ins. Unless you want to pay a lot extra.

[DirkGently]

15. Everywhere? Don't think so. And they're testing for nicotine some places now too.

Edit: And I'd add that insurance requirements shouldn't be able to dictate workers' private conduct on any basis. Drunk / stoned on the job is one thing. Making someone unemployable because they were around marijuana or mushrooms or whatever temporary chemical sometime in the past however-long is simply oppressive bullshit.

[Yo_Mama]

18. It is often so

But the reality is that the insurance companies don't give a shit if a bunch of people are wrongly denied employment or dismissed. And the testing companies have a lot of money involved.

My guess is that the most common problems are with people taking OTC drugs that they don't remember.

And few people even know that nicotine is found in a number of vegetables, so you can test positive for being a salad lover.

[DirkGently]

21. Yes. Insurance companies love to discriminate. Doesn't make it okey dokey.

Some racial groups have a higher incidence of high blood pressure or heart attack. I'm sure it would make actuarial sense to just deny them coverage on that basis. Or on income. Or place of residence. Or the clothes you wear or the car you drive. Riding a motorcycle is probably a threat to productivity as well.

At what point do business owners and insurance companies need to screw off and stop dictating who can have a job?

[Manifestor_of_Light]

44. That's the deadly nightshade family.

I'm allergic to veggies in the nightshade family, except for potatoes.

Those are tomatoes, bell peppers, sweet peppers, eggplant and tobacco.

Tobacco smoke makes me ill.

[reggie the dog]

48. why should insurance companies charge more

because workers smoke weed after work as opposed to doing alcohol after work? that is scam and discriminatory in and of itself

[Hotler]

30. Agreed. If it was about safety companies wouldn't have a problem...

with OSHA showing up for random safety inspections.

[DirkGently]

35. Good point. Workers are subject to suspicion & instant termination. Corps need "time to prepare."

[proud2BlibKansan]

7. My mother had a 60 year old co-worker who tested positive for meth

She ended up having to hire an attorney to keep from losing her job. It was a nightmare.

[Yo_Mama]

42. What if someone didn't have the money?

That's what concerns me.

I'm guessing that if a 60 year old really was doing meth she wouldn't live for long.

Do you know the details of what happened and what was done to get her cleared?

[proud2BlibKansan]

43. She was cleared eventually but it took a year or so

My mom knew her well and was sure she wasn't really on meth. Plus I know someone else who tested false positive on a work drug test. It happens. So I had no reason to doubt this woman was also a false positive.

[Yo_Mama]

45. I would think a 60 year old who lived another year

would be proved innocent by default. What's the life expectancy of a 60 year old on meth?

[reggie the dog]

49. shitty cut up bathtub meth or good quality lab produced?

if it is lab produced you can live well into old age
regardless if you use it or not you should be able to keep your job so long as you do it well. that they need testing proves that they cannot distinguish between users and non users based on performance.

[WilmywoodNCparalegal]

9. When/If someone tests positive,

s/he is given two options: 1 - to confirm a positive (resulting in immediate termination or no employment if a new hire) or 2 - to have us send the urine specimen to a medical lab for further tests. This is done when the person is taking a prescription medication. The lab will contact the person's physician and/or pharmacy and ensure the person has a prescription and it can test to see whether something is pharmaceutical grade or not.

I do the drug tests here and of all the positives I've had that were sent to the lab not one came back as a false positive.

FYI, I work for a heavy industrial construction project, so all of our employees need to be alert and vigilant, since we have heavy equipment and a bunch of confined spaces on site.

[Brickbat]

11. Are you tested?

[WilmywoodNCparalegal]

23. Yes, of course... We do random tests as well as pre-employment tests n/t

[Brickbat]

39. When you say "of course," is that because every employee, including owners and managers, is subject

to a random test? Are you an employee of this construction firm, or a contractor that does testing?

My questions sound snotty, but I'm just curious.

[reggie the dog]

51. so you let your boss dictate that you can do alcohol but not

cannabis or mdma even though cannabis and mdma are less bad for your health than alcohol? How many good, responsible workers have yu fired just because they do pot instead of doing alcohol? you basically mandate that your workers forego a nearly harmeless soft drug (cannabis) and do a hard drug (alcohol) if they want to use a drug to relax after work. how can you look at yourself in the mirror?

[Yo_Mama]

41. You know, DOT only requires testing of certain occupations

I think that is a red flag. When everyone in the company is subject to testing, they are willing to spend more for better testing!

http://www.dot.gov/ost/dapc/testingpubs/final_random_brochure.pdf

[Yo_Mama]

16. Why would any?

I can see the prescription medicine issue, but if you are just retesting urine you are using the same faulty method over again.

Clearly you have a real purpose for doing this, but blood testing is more specific.

I'm sure you have dismissed people who were not illegal drug users, given the protocol you describe.

[WilmywoodNCparalegal]

26. The tests we use are DOT approved and the lab

can test for metabolites. When you take an oxycontin pill, that pill contains a chemical marker or buffer that makes it easy to detect as a metabolite in urine. So, if you test positive for opiates and you have a valid prescription for oxy (which, by the way, you need to disclose before the test), it will be easily shown and proven.

We have had employees who tested positive because they were on prescription medications (including Adderall, which will cause a positive meth test).

We didn't fire anyone who takes a prescription. However, we did have to terminate an employee who tested positive for cocaine twice here at the office and lab confirmed.

[Yo_Mama]

31. Right - for prescriptions

But OTC drugs (which many doctors tell you to take) can cause conflicts and are much harder sometimes to separate.

I understand that you have a valid reason for testing. But I think your testing protocol is probably capturing some people who aren't drug users.

If you take a blood test, and the person remembers the OTC pill they took, you can usually test for that compound if it is not too far ago. There isn't a good way to separate all these.

[reggie the dog]

52. so you fired someone who did their job well just because they

preferred cocaine to caffine? that is really a stupid policy.

[DirkGently]

17. Do the tests distinguish between on / off work results? The way I understand it,

people who, say, get outrageously drunk on the weekends get a pass. Whereas someone with a 'bad' drug in their system is treated as though they've been intoxicated on the job.

Same with questionnaires. Years ago, I remember a multi-multi-page questionnaire for a summer job at a hardware store. "Have you ever used 'mushrooms?' Know anyone who has?"

It's a way for employers to dictate to and threaten workers over their private lives. If someone's intoxicated on the job, that's something different. Denying employment based on someone's private conduct is something else.

[Yo_Mama]

29. I wouldn't have even known what that meant as a teenager! n/t

[DirkGently]

33. I had only the vaguest notion. Wonder what happened to applicants who "knew someone" who did drugs?

[Yo_Mama]

36. I might have assumed it meant eating them and answered yes

(I really was that dumb. But honest and sincere.)

Is the question about knowing someone even legal?

[DirkGently]

37. You're even more innoncent than I. You eat the "bad" ones, too. 8)

As for the questions, as far as I know, there's no protection against intrusive employer questions outside of a few protected areas. I think religious or racial background, marital status and a woman's possible plans for having children are supposed to be off-limits.

The supposed "moral" element of anti-drug rules is what's being used here, in my opinion. Yes, I think we can agree crane operators and air traffic controllers need to come to work without any mind-altering substances onboard.

But again, they're probing much further than that. These tests pick up chemicals at levels that may indicate you ate a zuchinni, or a deli roll, or attended a party where pot was smoked three weekends prior.

[Yo_Mama]

40. I only knew about two kinds - poisonous and edible

In fourth grade, along with snake safety, we did edible/non-edible mushrooms.

Yes, I am that old.

More seriously, as the sensitivity of these tests rises the probability of false positives does too.

[reggie the dog]

54. crane operators and air traffic controllers

can use alcohol after work as it is now, they should also be albe to use the much less dangerous cannabis as well.

[WilmywoodNCparalegal]

32. We did terminate someone who was drunk on the job...

I think that a construction jobsite where someone's mistakes can result in fatalities needs to be a bit more careful about alcohol and drugs (whether legal or not). Our people on the job have the right to temporarily assign a worker who is taking a prescription medication to desk duty. We've had a couple of people on opiates for pain who worked clean up (and not with tools or equipment or confined spaces) as per doctor's orders.

[DirkGently]

34. I agree there are jobs with critical concerns. But a beer off the clock & joint off the clock are

treated differently, no? Doesn't the person with the "bad" drug in their system get terminated, regardless of whether they were intoxicated at the job?

[Yo_Mama]

38. I think there is a special rule about truck drivers

I knew one and he wouldn't even have one beer. They tested for very low amounts of alcohol.

Yes, I agree that there is a purpose to some of this stuff. Obviously rules and testing that are tightly coupled to job requirements are more defensible, and a very strong backup testing procedure would help that also.

But trace stuff? I think in many cases we are crossing the line.

From what you have described, I bet your company is dismissing people who aren't druggies. Some day I hope one of them has a brother or a brother-in-law who's a lawyer.

[reggie the dog]

55. this i agree with

on site drug and alcohol use is a no no,

[reggie the dog]

53. +1

you can do up all the alcohol you want and keep your job, smoke weed after work like i do and you get fired. so you are penalized for using the soft drug which is arguably not bad for you at all and rewarded for using a hard drug which has horrible consequences on your health and life....

[Book Lover]

28. And of course that joint smoked on Saturday night will *so* affect the worker come Monday morning! (

[reggie the dog]

50. so you hire people who do alocohol but not pot?

what is your logic to keep people who smoke cannabis out of your company yet hire people who use alcohol after work?

[DainBramaged]

19. Where I work they refuse to drug test because we have no employee handbook or policy

and there are a lot of people here who should be drug tested.

[Curmudgeoness]

20. List ANYTHING that was taken in the last SIX months!

Good lord, how could any of us come up with that list, especially when we are including OTC drugs? I am not sure I can recall everything I ate for dinner yesterday.

My suggestion to anyone who does any drugs---learn what to report that you have used recently. That should throw a monkey wrench in the drug tests.

[DirkGently]

22. And what's the basis to test for the past six months in the first place?

[reggie the dog]

56. me in the last 6 months?

tylenol

hash and herbal cannabis daily

cocaine once

amphetemines once

mushrooms once

lsd twice


would they not hire me? the fact that i dont like alcohol trumps out my advanced degree, my job performance?????? I am glad i moved out of the usa two weeks after i got my masters

[reggie the dog]

46. Reason # 1, I am not a slave

and if i want to use cannabis, mdma, lsd or mushrooms after work that is my own business. In my past 7 month contract i did not miss a single day due to illness. i work out and if i want to smoke a joint i will. luckily most places do not drug test teachers.