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Would you have voted for FDR after he said that public-sector unions should be banned?

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LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 09:23 PM
Original message
Would you have voted for FDR after he said that public-sector unions should be banned?
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Drale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 09:25 PM
Response to Original message
1. Wait besides republicans
who said public unions should be banned?
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LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Franklin Delano-fucken-Roosevelt, mah-man.
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Drale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Really? I never heard that before.
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Electric Monk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #2
11. Link? Source?
He said public sector unions shouldn't strike or use militant tactics, not that they should be banned.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110219120...


"The process of collective bargaining, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted into the public service," Roosevelt wrote in 1937 to the National Federation of Federal Employees. Yes, public workers may demand fair treatment, wrote Roosevelt. But, he wrote, "I want to emphasize my conviction that militant tactics have no place" in the public sector. "A strike of public employees manifests nothing less than an intent on their part to prevent or obstruct the operations of Government."
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LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 09:36 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. So, they could form a union but should not bargain or strike.
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tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 09:43 PM
Response to Reply #16
26. Which is not what you claimed in your OP. Retract or Delete.
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LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. I got it so wrong.
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tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 09:45 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. Still time to edit?
:shrug:
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LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #29
34. I am trying to feel the shame.
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 09:28 PM
Response to Original message
4. He never said that. He supported bargaining, but was against striking
...for public employees
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LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. Nope.
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Yep
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LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Back to you but more of it infinity.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #12
23. Oy. nt
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LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. Look at #11.
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 09:36 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. But...that proves what I said
:shrug:

I'm so confused
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TheBigotBasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #4
33. Bargaining without the option of a strike
is not bargaining.
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Luminous Animal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #4
39. You are right, leftstreet. Here is more from the letter...
Edited on Mon Apr-25-11 09:53 PM by Luminous Animal
"The desire of Government employees for fair and adequate pay, reasonable hours of work, safe and suitable working conditions, development of opportunities for advancement, facilities for fair and impartial consideration and review of grievances, and other objectives of a proper employee relations policy, is basically no different from that of employees in private industry. Organization on their part to present their views on such matters is both natural and logical, but meticulous attention should be paid to the special relationships and obligations of public servants to the public itself and to the Government."
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socialist_n_TN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 09:28 PM
Response to Original message
5. Probably, but that depends on who was running against
him.

I'm a commie now. I'd have FOR SURE been a commie back in the 30s. FDR was too right wing to me for him to be anything, but a "lesser of two evils" candidate.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 09:28 PM
Response to Original message
6. Gee, I dunno. What else did he do and/or say?
:eyes:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 09:28 PM
Response to Original message
7. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Not even FDR is as good as FDR.
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ZombieHorde Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 09:32 PM
Response to Original message
13. I don't vote for institutional racists, but I think I am in the minority on DU for that stance.
Fuck FDR.
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NYC Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #13
19. Oh don't be so dramatic.
100,000 Americans locked up in camps because of their race...pfff, what's the big deal?
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tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #13
20. Totally agree. One of the most shameful times in US history.
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Dyedinthewoolliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 10:31 PM
Response to Reply #13
59. Well now ain't
that some pretty good hindsightin' on your part? :shrug: Can't judge 1942 actions with 2011 sensibilities. Can you?
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ZombieHorde Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 10:41 PM
Response to Reply #59
61. Do you feel the same about slavery?
How about Hitler? Can we judge him with our 2011 sensibilities?

How about those we consider to be good? Can we really judge them with our 2011 sensibilities? Should we not have opinions on historical figures and their actions?
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Dyedinthewoolliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #61
64. You don't think it's a bit of a leap
to equate slavery, which has existed since man started recording history to FDR's over reaction to Pearl Harbor? Who said anything about anything being good? I'm saying we have the benefit of looking back and seeing how the internment of American citizens of Japanese descent was wrong. In the middle of America in early 1942, the average American probably didn't feel that way. It allows us to see how insidious racism is and how cultural and ethnic differences scare uneducated people.
How will we be viewed? We who have tolerated Guantanamo Bay and the imprisoning of some innocent people for about what 6 or 7 years now? Not to mention many more things that 50 or 75 years from now will be viewed as racist or worse. :shrug:
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ZombieHorde Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 11:30 PM
Response to Reply #64
65. "How will we be viewed?" I view us extremely poorly.
Our wars, our educations system, our prison system, our health care system, and our treatment of the poor around the world is disturbing. I don't require 60 years of hindsight to notice people suffering.
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Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 09:33 PM
Response to Original message
14. Geez, of course. If I'm gonna vote for Obama I'd sure as heck vote for a liberal
like FDR.

That's a no brainer.
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tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 09:36 PM
Response to Original message
18. Did he say they should be banned?
I do disagree with his stance on the limits he wanted for them. I also really disagree with a lot of his other actions, such as the Japanese internment. I would have been very critical of him.

Would I have voted for him? Depends on the year and the alternatives.
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Luminous Animal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #18
37. No, he did not.
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Puregonzo1188 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 09:38 PM
Response to Original message
21. To be perfectly honest I would have voted for Norman Thomas.
Eleanor Roosevelt implied once that she would have done so in 1932 had her husband not been running.

Part of me wonders if maybe she did just like part of me always wondered in she voted for her longtime friend Henry Wallace over Truman.
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white_wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #21
25. Norman Thomas would have been a great president.
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tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #21
36. And don't forget Debs!
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 09:39 PM
Response to Original message
22. Got a source for that? This is DU. Lots of critical thinkers here.
Critical thinking requires facts--I don't recall the word "ban" being used.
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LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. I have a hostile witness in reply #11.
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Electric Monk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #24
28. You're moving the goalposts. Reply #11 did not validate your OP. nt
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tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. As long as he gets his FLAME BAIT on!
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #24
32. A Yahoo question board? Please pay attention, this is 2011 and you are holding the class back. nt
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Luminous Animal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 09:52 PM
Response to Reply #22
40. Nope. FDR did not advocate for banning public unions. He was against public unions striking...
Edited on Mon Apr-25-11 09:54 PM by Luminous Animal
more from the same letter...


"The desire of Government employees for fair and adequate pay, reasonable hours of work, safe and suitable working conditions, development of opportunities for advancement, facilities for fair and impartial consideration and review of grievances, and other objectives of a proper employee relations policy, is basically no different from that of employees in private industry. Organization on their part to present their views on such matters is both natural and logical, but meticulous attention should be paid to the special relationships and obligations of public servants to the public itself and to the Government."
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unkachuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 09:45 PM
Response to Original message
30. absolutely, but only in 1932....
....you've got my kick but for the first time ever, I'm going un-recommend someone....I think you have bad attitude and should be ashamed of yourself....
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LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #30
43. :'(
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Luminous Animal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 09:49 PM
Response to Original message
35. Funny how all over the internet, right wingers forget this part (and it appears that you've
Edited on Mon Apr-25-11 09:54 PM by Luminous Animal
been duped by those right wingers - I suggest due diligence by conducting a more expansive research before posting). Here is more of of the letter...


"The desire of Government employees for fair and adequate pay, reasonable hours of work, safe and suitable working conditions, development of opportunities for advancement, facilities for fair and impartial consideration and review of grievances, and other objectives of a proper employee relations policy, is basically no different from that of employees in private industry. Organization on their part to present their views on such matters is both natural and logical, but meticulous attention should be paid to the special relationships and obligations of public servants to the public itself and to the Government."

What FDR was against was public employee's striking.
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Cerridwen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 09:50 PM
Response to Original message
38. "Organizations of Government employees have a logical place in Government affairs."
<snip>
Organizations of Government employees have a logical place in Government affairs.

The desire of Government employees for fair and adequate pay, reasonable hours of work, safe and suitable working conditions, development of opportunities for advancement, facilities for fair and impartial consideration and review of grievances, and other objectives of a proper employee relations policy, is basically no different from that of employees in private industry. Organization on their part to present their views on such matters is both natural and logical, but meticulous attention should be paid to the special relationships and obligations of public servants to the public itself and to the Government.

All Government employees should realize that the process of collective bargaining, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted into the public service. It has its distinct and insurmountable limitations when applied to public personnel management. The very nature and purposes of Government make it impossible for administrative officials to represent fully or to bind the employer in mutual discussions with Government employee organizations. The employer is the whole people, who speak by means of laws enacted by their representatives in Congress. Accordingly, administrative officials and employees alike are governed and guided, and in many instances restricted, by laws which establish policies, procedures, or rules in personnel matters.

Particularly, I want to emphasize my conviction that militant tactics have no place in the functions of any organization of Government employees. Upon employees in the Federal service rests the obligation to serve the whole people, whose interests and welfare require orderliness and continuity in the conduct of Government activities. This obligation is paramount. Since their own services have to do with the functioning of the Government, a strike of public employees manifests nothing less than an intent on their part to prevent or obstruct the operations of Government until their demands are satisfied. Such action, looking toward the paralysis of Government by those who have sworn to support it, is unthinkable and intolerable. It is, therefore, with a feeling of gratification that I have noted in the constitution of the National Federation of Federal Employees the provision that "under no circumstances shall this Federation engage in or support strikes against the United States Government."

The rest of the letter is here



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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 09:55 PM
Response to Original message
41. He congratulated the NFE on THEIR OWN decision to preclude striking. HUGE difference.
Edited on Mon Apr-25-11 09:57 PM by blondeatlast
It is, therefore, with a feeling of gratification that I have noted in the constitution of the National Federation of Federal Employees the provision that "under no circumstances shall this Federation engage in or support strikes against the United States Government."

I congratulate the National Federation of Federal Employees the twentieth anniversary of its founding and trust that the convention will, in every way, be successful.


Funny how RW sites --and the OP--conveniently neglect that last paragraph.

http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=15445#a...
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tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 09:56 PM
Response to Original message
42. Link?
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 10:04 PM
Response to Original message
44. Ah, is the DLC demonizing FDR today?
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 10:09 PM
Response to Reply #44
45. Every time a pundit says Obama coulda been like FDR, FDR loses a wing
:D
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tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #44
46. I personally can't buy into that he is DLC.
Even they aren't that stupid and wasteful, I would think.

I just think he is an egoist disruptor.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 10:16 PM
Original message
I think you may be right. strangely silent since he's been challenged. nt
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Luminous Animal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #44
47. I've seen several of this same subject from the same poster.
A lie, repeated often enough, will end up as truth.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 10:11 PM
Response to Original message
48. Put up or shut up--too many in this thread have done the classwork for you (and proven you WRONG).
Time to prove THEM wrong with a reputable source or STFU.
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tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #48
49. Disruptors don't work like that.
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LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #48
50. I feel so misguided about this.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 10:17 PM
Response to Reply #50
52. You claimed it--own it or STFU. nt
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tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 10:17 PM
Response to Reply #50
53. You love the attention.
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Luminous Animal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 10:16 PM
Response to Reply #48
51. Oh, I've little doubt he knows the entire story but it's the misleading snip
that is important to catapult to the forefront of the propaganda. Some propaganda seeks to illuminate; much more seeks to obfuscate. I'm certain I know what we are dealing with here.
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tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #51
54. He wanted flames, he got them. That is really the long and short of it.
Such a sad person.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 10:43 PM
Response to Reply #51
62. "B, b, b, b, buuuut I've been miiiisguiiiided... (visualize welling eyes and quvering lip). nt
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abelenkpe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #48
57. Prolly too busy hanging with nutty right wingers nt
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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 10:19 PM
Response to Original message
55. He never said any such thing.
What a load of horseshit.
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Guy Whitey Corngood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 10:21 PM
Response to Original message
56. .
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Hugabear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 10:31 PM
Response to Original message
58. This is a right-wing talking point
Glenn Beck and other RW propagandists have been spreading this bullshit. As has been repeatedly pointed out in this thread, it's patently false.
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tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 10:36 PM
Response to Reply #58
60. Even after he was told, the OP chose not to edit or acknowledge.
Why, I wonder?????
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Mimosa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 11:09 PM
Response to Original message
63. Great time travel hypothesis.
Edited on Mon Apr-25-11 11:25 PM by Mimosa
The issues have not changed in that moral decisions are where we choose who we really are, based on our drive to learn the information and the values we developed from our own family backgrounds. Even our past incarnations to advance humanity.

WHEN IF EVER DO The Young Fight DISAPPROBATION FROM SOCIETY AND Recapture OUR Idealistic STANDS From CONTINUATION OF VIOLENT CONFLICTS BLESSED BY KALI YUGI, INcarnation of WAR? Kali YUGA is Male/Female and avaricious. War is what the energy feeds upon and seduces the youths. Lusts, fear of death, hope for glory and immortality.

It's not *BAD*. It is the spirit of the great noble war films, self sacrifice. There is truth to the principle of male sacrifice. But what if male libido were instead devoted to Eros, to building and constructing better lives and life-affirming societies to a the libidinous world of young men and women? OLD MEN divert the lives of the young men to sacrifice for hazy goals.

Those rewards to survivors don't really happen. The sacrificing men who happen to survive become beaten down dependent on handouts. *SEE THE BEST YEARS OF OUR LIVES* from 1946, the most true post war story ever. Nothing like it shall ever be made again.

The Best Years of Our Lives showed the genisis of the Mccarthy years. But it showed the srength of families and associations put together.

This is the one post war film we dare not ignore. It is relevant today in our WORSE CURRENT CONFLICT. Please lets learn from the pain, sacrifices and courage of our great grandparents!
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themadstork Donating Member (797 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 11:45 PM
Response to Original message
66. Propaganda thread
Go away please.
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TrogL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 12:35 AM
Response to Original message
67. locking
Can we please discuss issues, not DUers.
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