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Very_Boring_Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 06:39 PM
Original message
Poll question: People who attack/destroy the property of businesses, corporations, banks

Sorry, polls are turned off at Level 3.

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Loge23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 06:45 PM
Response to Original message
1. Two wrongs don't ....
You know the old saying, but it's still true.
Non-violent resistance and more credible information about the abuses of these entities is the key.
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formernaderite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. good common sense
What the people who destroy don't get....is the rest of us get to pay for it, because the insurance companies will increase their rates, which means products and services cost more.

You have to practice peace to truly understand it :)
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. Depends on the business.
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mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 06:47 PM
Response to Original message
2. unrec-- this is divisive without any redeeming qualities for discussion....
At the very least, add an "other" category. Neither of your existing answers is as uncategorically true as you seem to want it to be. There are many instances when destroying corporate property can be "heroic," but it's also often simple (and pointless) vandalism. Likewise, while vandalism is clearly a crime, sometimes it's also an act of civil disobedience, and while technically still criminal, it can be justified-- and certainly there are situations when it's not only justified, but the best response.

Finally, let's be frank. Smashing capitalism can be fun.
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. +1
This is so old
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Raine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. +2 nt
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socialist_n_TN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #2
22. +3.......
Not much nuance in these answers. Although I did answer the way a militant anti capitalist would. 3 guesses as to what that is (two of those guesses don't count! :))
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 06:49 PM
Response to Original message
4. Could be both.
Depends on the business and the reason, as well as the actual outcome. The tactic is the big qualifier for me.
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 06:50 PM
Response to Original message
6. you needed a couple of more options to make this a meaningful discussion
like ''misguided but their hearts are in the right place'' or ''not morally wrong but counterproductive.''
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 06:57 PM
Response to Original message
9. Raze their temples, sow salt in their fields.
This is what is best: to crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women.

sw
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Luminous Animal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 06:58 PM
Response to Original message
10. It depends on the context, doesn't it?
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Fire1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 07:03 PM
Response to Original message
11. I don't believe in violence (in most cases) but if I passed by
a burning bank or corporation, I'd light my cigarette and keep walking.
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marmar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 07:07 PM
Response to Original message
12. Banks, corporations, insurance companies that destroy the lives of people....
are:

1. Heroes of the free market system that should be commended.

2. Leeches that need to go out of business.


Just for the sake of balance......



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Fire1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Thanks, I forgot "insurance companies," too. n/t
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Very_Boring_Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. Good poll, now I'm 100% positive you dont use banks or corporations at ALL
Right... RIGHT? :eyes:
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Poboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #12
18. I like your poll much better. (post #12)
Edited on Mon Apr-25-11 08:09 PM by Poboy
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Posteritatis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 07:13 PM
Response to Original message
14. Other: are the subjects of silly polls. (nt)
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Turbineguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 07:17 PM
Response to Original message
15. Third choice:
Are CEO's
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Marr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 08:08 PM
Response to Original message
17. What an odd question. n/t
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Annata4Peace Donating Member (36 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 08:15 PM
Response to Original message
19. I would never snitch....
on a person who commuted a crime against a corporation. But I would call the cops myself on someone who committed a crime against a person.
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socialist_n_TN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. And there you go.........
That's the way I look at it too. Also, if I owe $100 to a person and $100 to a corporation and I only HAVE $100 to pay bills, guess who gets paid? Yep, the real live PERSON.
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robcon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 08:42 PM
Response to Original message
20. It doesn't depend on the context. Those are criminal acts.
n/t
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socialist_n_TN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 10:11 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. So was Rosa Parks sitting elsewhere than the back
of the bus.
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robcon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #24
33. Exactly. She was willing to face the consequences of her protest.
Those were noble, brave and illegal actions by Rosa Parks.
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Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 09:12 PM
Response to Original message
21. Can be heroic depending on context. I consider the Boston Tea Party an act of heroism.
This is a perfect example of how sabotaging a business can be justifiable.
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DeadEyeDyck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 10:22 PM
Response to Original message
25. I buy a lawn-mower and mow my nrighbor's lawn for $20
After three months, I buy another mower and hire a homeless guy to help me mow other lawns for $20 a pop. We both pool our funds and buy three more mowers and some hedge clippers and hire on two other homeless guys.

In the second year, I buy a used pick-up truck and hire 5 more guys. We "first founders" who pooled our meager funds are dividing up the returns while paying the new guys a yard by yard salary. To protect ourselves, we talk to an accountant and he says we should form an S-corporation. We do so and we are now Acme Lawn Care.

62 people now have jobs because of us. Ace hardware has sold 17 lawnmowers, six hedge clippers, four ditch-witches and we have two more old Ford vans from Car-Max. We also reant uniforms from a local distributor.

I have to ask you, have I (we) the evil corporation improved the quality of living of our community or are we just evil?

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Very_Boring_Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 10:31 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. My grandfather always used to say
Edited on Mon Apr-25-11 10:32 PM by Very_Boring_Name
Corporations are made up of real, flesh and blood people. They're not machines. You've summed it up perfectly. Corporations are not intrinsically evil, they're just a collection of people. They may do evil THINGS, but what regulation is for. It's kind of like an arsonist burning down a school and the response being "FIRE IS EVIL!" When you go and blow up a bank (which is what happened in my neighborhood a few years ago by a group of self-identified anarchists), who are you hurting? You're hurting the workers who have to pay their mortgage and feed their kids.
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Shandris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 12:47 AM
Response to Reply #26
28. When a corporation becomes so large that the CEO never has to lay eyes...
...on a call-center rep, or a field technician, or a janitor...then they have ceased to be 'just people' and have reached the point of intrinsically evil.

Acme Lawn Care would never have a concern in a world that I ran, for instance. Chase Bank, on the other hand, would be better of going into hiding. As an entity, no good can come from an organization as large as a Chase Bank (I don't even have a local Chase Bank, which is why I'm using them for an example only. Substitute any multiterritorial megacorporation of your choice.)

And regulations, to an entity the size of a Chase Bank, are a JOKE. "The cost of compliance is ALWAYS greater than the cost of the fine."

If a group of people -- the head of a corporation -- have a LEGAL obligation to do the MOST they can to gain profit above ALL considerations, and they can either spend 40 billion in regulatory fixes OR make 100 billion then pay a 5 billion dollar fine...they have a responsibility to break the law. It is INTRINSICALLY EVIL.
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Very_Boring_Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 01:30 AM
Response to Reply #28
29. A CEO is one part of a corporation
Edited on Tue Apr-26-11 01:34 AM by Very_Boring_Name
99% of Chase bank is made up of low level employees, people who work for a living. It's not the CEO who is cleaning up the broken glass when a branch gets torched, and its not the CEO who is out of a job when said torched branch closes down.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 02:11 AM
Response to Reply #25
32. 62 people in your company get minimum wage (or if they're illegals, half that).
The "7 founders" get salaries twice as much if not three times what the other workers get. If a worker breaks a mower by driving over a rock with it you take it out of his paycheck with the threat of being fired if he doesn't pay up for his negligence. The "7 founders" sit on their ass all day smoking cigarettes and drinking, while the rest of the workers toil away, if they're caught drinking on the job or flicking cigarette butts on someones property, they get scolded or fired. The "7 founders" opt to keep equipment for as long as possible rather than buying new equipment, so that in the end the workers are doing significantly more labor, hand bagging all debris, hand ranking everything. If a job isn't done in a specified amount of time, then you are fired.

We can talk about how the real world works if you want.

Everything I said here I have experienced first hand.
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Hugabear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 11:02 PM
Response to Original message
27. Project Mayhem
Edited on Mon Apr-25-11 11:04 PM by Hugabear
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readmoreoften Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 02:03 AM
Response to Original message
30. Other: bad organizers with shitty politics
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 02:05 AM
Response to Original message
31. If they're doing it to divert police attention away from peaceful protestors, then...
...clearly they're heroes. I'm not one for property destruction, but it does serve a purpose given a correct context.
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