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Synicus Maximus Donating Member (828 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 08:25 AM
Original message
Military patrols start Friday night in downtown Columbus
Source: CBS

Starting at 10 o'clock Friday, two senior non-commissioned officers from Fort Benning will be on courtesy patrol. The soldiers will be wearing arm bands that read, "Courtesy Patrol."

Fort Benning Commanding General Robert Brown and Columbus Mayor Teresa Tomlinson made the announcement earlier this week.

They need to increase security in Uptown Columbus comes after two weekend incidents in early April.

Read more: http://www2.wrbl.com/news/2011/apr/22/military-patrols-... /



It's starting
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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 08:27 AM
Response to Original message
1. Seems like a breach of Posse Comitatus to me
but, hey, I'm so pre-911. :eyes:
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 08:39 AM
Response to Reply #1
6. (my first thought). . .n/t
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 08:49 AM
Response to Reply #1
10. Me too.
Edited on Mon Apr-25-11 08:55 AM by Javaman
This is how it starts.

first you loosen the standards by which someone can enlist. aka allowing felons to join. Allowing people with known gang tattoos join.

Then, people are surprised when problems happen.

So then you have to have military police patrol areas that aren't a port city, to control problem soldiers.

Mission creep on our own soil.

I thought I never see the day...

but then again, I thought that during Katrina and how the people down there were treated.

But then again, I thought that when we found out abu garib and gitmo.

But the again, I thought that when...oh never mind.
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lector Donating Member (61 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #10
26. S.P
This is nothing new. I remember the Shore Patrol cruising the streets in San Diego 20 years ago.
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #26
30. Explain to me where the port is in Columbus, Ohio. nt
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PavePusher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #30
32. The Army has always had it's own version of the S.P.
Jeese-Louise, did you skip all your history classes?
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #32
34. thank you for being insulting,
but I was answering your question regarding shore patrol.

ass.
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PavePusher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #34
39. Not my question....
I think we're miscommunicating here...
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Myrina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #30
38. Referring to Columbus GEORGIA ...
... see note re: Fort Benning?

:shrug:
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Obamanaut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #10
42. MP (military police) has been used by the Army and ( I think) Marine Corps
in the towns near Army/Marine bases for decades. Columbus has such a base nearby, Ft. Benning - in Georgia.

The Air Force at one time used AP designations, I don't know if the still do. And then there are the members of the Shore Patrol (SP). The Navy has many bases that are not near a port, they are often facilities for naval aviation. And they have SP members in the towns nearby.

The article linked in the OP tells us the Courtesy Patrol will not be involved in arresting anyone, but they can order rowdy soldiers back to base, or call the MPs, who can arrest them and confine them to the base, or have the local police arrest them. Often the local LEOs have a good working relationship with the nearby military police (MP, SP, AP), in part because the bases spend do much money in the local economies.

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KurtNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 08:57 AM
Response to Reply #1
11. the military is helping to keep its own in line - Ft Benning is there
You cant arrest someone for being intoxicated, but a senior officer can order you back to base or have military police come get you and bring you back to base, says Tomlinson.

Nothing new.
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 09:07 AM
Response to Reply #11
14. Exactly. This is happening because a group of soldiers
beat someone up off-base. That's in the liked article, but was conveniently not mentioned by the OP.

Anyone who has lived somewhere with a nearby military base has seen military police in the city and off-base. They're there to make sure military personnel behave themselves while off-base. It's a necessary function, sadly.

For example, it's tough for the civilian police to arrest someone for something like being drunk and obnoxious. Not for the MPs, though. They'll haul the disorderly drunk back to the base and possibly defuse a dangerous situation. The UCMJ has stuff in it to deal with such things, and the town is happy to see them there to handle such situations.
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Historic NY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #11
25. Its proactive patrolling, nothing that hasn't happened thousands of times...
in communities where there is a military presence. Its a great assistance to the local police in the military handles their own before the civilian authorities have to. Where I live for a number of years both the 101st & 82nd came to town to train the Cadets at summer beast barracks. That was like having oil & water together, they just don't mix. We had countless incidents involving mostly alcohol and beer muscles in our local taverns & diners. It was a great relief having the extra hands to deal with the drunken soldiers, before they had to be arrested by the locals. It greatly cut back on arrests & incidents, when it was in effect.
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thereismore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #1
24. Oh yeah, but these guys are courteous. nt
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bluerum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 08:30 AM
Response to Original message
2. Ah yes. "Courtesy patrols". What will they think of next.
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JohnyCanuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 08:34 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. In case there are any little, old ladies that need help crossing the street? n/t
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formercia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 09:27 AM
Response to Reply #2
21. Dignity Battalions
like in Panama.
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 08:38 AM
Response to Original message
4. this was done before in this city...
after reading why they are on "patrol" it seems to be a good idea.
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 08:39 AM
Response to Original message
5. "Courtesy Patrols" ?!?!? how orwellian is THAT?
Isn't there something written down about the US Military and civilians? Like they're not supposed to do that?
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 08:46 AM
Response to Reply #5
9. Have you tried reading the article?
It helps. Then you wouldn't write things like "military and civilians".
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 08:43 AM
Response to Original message
7. You seem to have left out the reason this is happening...
Edited on Mon Apr-25-11 08:46 AM by MineralMan
Apparently, it was triggered by a beating done by several soldiers in the city. You also seem to be unaware that military police are often on duty in cities to keep military personnel on their best behavior. It's been a standard practice for many, many years. For example, the Navy Short Patrol is often seen in major naval port cities, like San Diego.

In your zeal to attack this, you omitted some pretty important information from the original article.

I encourage everyone to go read the entire article before declaring that the military is taking over.
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Historic NY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #7
27. +1 & we talk about baseless facts...reading is fundamental.
Edited on Mon Apr-25-11 09:49 AM by Historic NY
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 08:45 AM
Response to Original message
8. The National Guard did "logistical support" in DC during the '90s Drug Wars
Not new - unfortunately.
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BIGFOOTSDADDY333 Donating Member (32 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 08:58 AM
Response to Original message
12. the road to hell is paved in tiny steps.....em
Edited on Mon Apr-25-11 08:58 AM by BIGFOOTSDADDY333
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drm604 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 09:04 AM
Response to Original message
13. Read the article people.
This is in response to incidents involving military personnel. The only power these two officers will have will be to order trouble making military personnel back to base or to call in MPs to take military personnel into custody. This is common practice in military towns. They will have no power over civilians.
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 09:08 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. +100
Reading articles is a good thing. Sometimes, posters leave out important parts of the story, for whatever reason.
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littlewolf Donating Member (920 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 09:17 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. K & R indeed ....
having been on shore patrol .... and the duty SNCO ...
we often would get phone calls to come pick folks up and
bring em back to base .....
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 09:22 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. Yes, and the community near the base was very happy to
see you, I'm sure. I was in the military, myself, and saw some of the mischief guys got into in the towns near the bases where I was stationed. The town was very happy to have the MPs or SPs come and haul the troublemakers back to the base.
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KansDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 09:22 AM
Response to Reply #13
17. Isn't this similar to "Shore Patrols?"
I seem to remember when SPs walked a beat in cities with Navy presence in an effort to keep sailors and Marines from getting drunk and rowdy.
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. Yes. This is not Breaking News at all. It's just a local story
from a city near a military base.
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JustABozoOnThisBus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 09:36 AM
Response to Reply #17
23. Yes, same thing
MPs break up fights, haul drunk GIs back to the base for whatever discipline the CO deems fit.

For the serious stuff, assault, etc, the MPs haul them to jail to wait for the wheels of military justice to roll over them.

This is nothing new, MPs have been doing this since the 1940's, and probably before then.

I'm not sure why this is news. MP patrols should be a common sight in Columbus.
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JustABozoOnThisBus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #23
35. Oops, not the same thing - CP vs MP/SP/AP
Thanks to Rasputin, now I know what a CP is. I don't remember anything about CPs from my short and inglorious service. MPs, yes, had a few professional encounters with them, with me on the losing end (minor stuff).

CP sounds like a good idea, heading off trouble before it gets "official" with the MPs.

A concept like that might have saved me from an Article 15 (the military equivalent of a speeding ticket).

:hi:

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tuckessee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 10:58 AM
Response to Reply #13
29. Then why not use MP's?
Everybody, even non-military personell, know who and what MP's are.

If "Courtesy Patrols" are common then there should be a well-established and well-documented history them.

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drm604 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #29
31. So what do you think these officers are for?
Since you apparently don't believe what the article says, what do you think their purpose is?
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Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #13
36. "They will have no power over civilians."
On paper, anyway. But then "something" happens and, all of a sudden......
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drm604 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #36
40. Yes, obviously they're lying and the real plan is to abuse civilians in some manner.
That's why they sent out two whole officers. Between them they can easily vanquish the entire town and institute a military dictatorship. :sarcasm:

Seriously, why do you think that this is some sort of subterfuge and what do you believe their real plans are? Because I just don't see whatever it is you're seeing.
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PavePusher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #36
41. Do you really think, with all their current deployments...
that they have the time, personnel, equipment and funding to do anything close to what you are implying?

Jesus Christ on a fucking pogo stick, some people around here are Wa-a-a-a-yyy off their meds.

:tinfoilhat:
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Bill McBlueState Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 09:26 AM
Response to Original message
20. Columbus, GEORGIA
Without any context in your post, I had to dig a little to figure out which Columbus you meant. I guess the mention of Fort Benning should've tipped me off.
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rasputin1952 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 09:32 AM
Response to Original message
22. I've served on Courtesy Patrols...
these are not MP's, nor do they have any authority over civilians. They are simply a "reminder" to military personnel that NCO's are out watching for behavior that is not becoming of military personnel. The only authority they have is what inherent in the military rank system. In Germany, when I was on CP, we were limited to clubs that were in th Military System, we could require military ID's to be shown, and were generally just "walk arounds". However, one does not want one's name to wind up on a "list" that might make it to the one's CO. It is wise to use discretion when the CP is around, about the last thing one would want to do is make a "stink" while they are around...(especially if one is in the same unit as the CP, this can be quite "interesting" later on).

I never cared much for the job, but, you follow orders; the idea is to let it be known you are around, so it's wise to use discretion. 95% of those we dealt with were inebriated, the object was to avoid/prevent confrontation. Try going to an enlisted club where Army, Navy and Marines are hanging out...the CP can be a blessing at times... ;)
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littlewolf Donating Member (920 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 10:31 AM
Response to Original message
28. alot of times the only thing we had to do is send the
duty drive out to pick guys up before they got in serious trouble ....
in the morning usually there first class or chief took care of the
problem ... if it was a repeat problem then their div off or dept head
(officers) got it .... in most cases the person got their liberty restricted
ie no off base or no off base after dark ....for 30 or 45 days ...
if they still could not stay out of trouble the CO got involved ....
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PavePusher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 11:45 AM
Response to Original message
33. Your teacup....
it is full of tempest...
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SomeGuyInEagan Donating Member (872 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 12:00 PM
Response to Original message
37. My FiL was Navy shore patrol in the '60s. They did this then, to keep sailors in line and ...
... help local police when sailors were involved. From his reports, it was mostly getting drunk and disorderly sailors into the jeep and getting them back to base. Rarely did they need to do more than talk.

He told me that then, they could assist local authorities only with the military personnel (could not restrain or arrest civilians, if involved), assist local authorities "simply by standing around" if asked because civilians didn't know that SPs couldn't get involved beyond witnessing events which did not involve military unless it was life-threatening or call the local authorities to respond to civilian incidents they witnessed and leave a statement.

But mostly, it was driving sailors back to base. Of course, that is one SP's experience, 45 years ago in southern California.
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Obamanaut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 01:36 PM
Response to Original message
43. It has been thus for decades. Nothing is "It's starting". MPs, APs,
Edited on Mon Apr-25-11 01:37 PM by Obamanaut
SPs have been in towns near military bases for a very long time.



http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Link to my earlier post that I'm too lazy to copy/paste here.
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