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Vote on principle or just because they have a "D" the end of their name?

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Cascadian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 09:40 PM
Original message
Vote on principle or just because they have a "D" the end of their name?
Edited on Sun Apr-24-11 09:42 PM by Cascadian
I think that voting on principle is more important than voting for somebody all because of the party they represent. Voting on principle is a forgotten practice done by many a voter. Some people would vote for Jack the Ripper if he had a "D" at the end of his name. While the Democratic Party is the lesser of the two evils. The less corporate of the corporate-run two parties, is it necessary to vote somebody all because they have a "D" at the end? The answer I am afraid is an overwhelming "No." I just cannot take another election season where people are going to be threatened with "you better vote for the Democrat or you'll have a Republican." This has been a problem with the two-party season for years. It is especially more poignant these last 20 years. I know it isn't going to change and therefore our political system is a mockery of freedoms and democracy we supposedly champion. So what does that leave us? I just have difficulty in having to vote just because a person has a "D" at the end anymore. It is more imperative to stuck to principles than ever before. I am tired of having my support taken for granted and feel like I am being used. This is system cannot continue the way it is. Where does it end? I think the only way it will truly end if the Democrats and Republicans finally merge to become one corporate political entity. Of course that will not happen. It is the military/industrial complex's best interest to give the illusion that we have a choice in this country which in reality we don't. I know in November 2012, I will be doing the right thing and that is voting for principle over party. The country would be better off if we all had the guts to critically think and vote with our minds and not with voting because of a label.


John

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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 09:51 PM
Response to Original message
1. A D doesn't Make One a Democrat
One has to uphold and promote the platform, and always argue for the people, not corporations.
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AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 10:10 PM
Response to Original message
2. Letting the Republicans Win is the Right Thing????????????????
Would you please take your own advice and USE your mind!
Think about the likely consequences.

"you better vote for the Democrat or you'll have a Republican."


But it's true! You don't even try to refute it.

You seem to believe that the two parties are the same.

I don't see how you can say that, after seeing the crazy Republicans that have come into the House
or the even crazier ones that are running for President.

What is the "principle" behind this? Let the crazies win because the Democrats aren't pure enough?
Let the Repigs do to the country what they have done to Wisconsin and Michigan where they have complete control?

The country would be better off if we all had the guts to critically think and vote with our minds and not with voting because of a label.


We ARE thinking critically and we don't think the country can survive if the crazies win.

UNrecommended!
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bluestate10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 10:17 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. Stunning, isn't it?! I am disgusted with such blind idiocy. Let those people fuck themselves,
sane democrats must convince as many independents as possible to help us prevent republicans from fucking the country.
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bluestate10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 10:11 PM
Response to Original message
3. A post that is full of buzzwords.
:crazy:

Typical Left-wing post. All anger, no solution. If you don't like where the democratic party is headed, convince your neighbors to vote for your beloved third party. Good luck. I'm disgusted with your type. Follow your "principles", I have no intention of suggesting that you make any other choice.
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white_wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. No solutions?
The Left wing of the party offered the best solution to the budget problem so far with the People's Budget. I guess its just not pragmatic enough for you though.
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bluestate10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 10:21 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. None=Zero. NADA. Understand? Your ideas have zero possibility of implementation.
No society in history has gone from the state of the USA to a social democracy. Please don't give the shit about "look at Scandinavia", those countries took hundreds of years to develop their society.
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white_wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Yes and if we keep going down the "centrist" path of compromising to the GOP
we will never get there. At least the Left is offering good solutions as opposed to compromise.
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bluestate10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 10:32 PM
Response to Reply #14
19. Solutions are ideas that can work. Case closed. nt
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white_wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #19
24. No, solutions are ideas that make the country better.
Compromising with the GOP does not make the country better. Giving billions to the insurance industry does not make this country better, extending the Bush tax cuts does not make this country better, refusing to veto an extension of the Patriot Act does not make this country better.
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bluestate10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 10:47 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. I see what you don't like. Tell what you would do differently, and more
importantly, how you would get it passed in both the House and the Senate? I see nothing but heat and anger coming from your point of view, but sadly not one single solution to date.
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white_wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #27
35. For starters.
Obama could have vetoed the Patriot Act, at least show us he is our side. He could have at least fought hard for a public option and not taken single payer off the table before negotiations begin. Look, I'm not asking he do everything I want, I'm asking him to at least fight for what he campaigned for.
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bluestate10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #35
40. Veto the Patriots Act and cut the legs from under democrats that supported
that Act. The Act is badly flawed, but throwing up hands in the face of domestic and international terrorism is not a solution. There was no way that Single Payer was going to pass. Insistence on Single Payer would have ended any chance for health care reform, reasonable political minds saw that reality. Now with heath care reform, Vermont can take the next step. Once Vermont succeeds, the desire for single payer will increase and be more difficult to fight politically. Canada is used by the Left as a model, but Canada did not implement it's program in one act of legislation, in fact that country took years and many changes to get to where it's health care is.
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white_wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #40
43. Yes he should have cut the legs from under those who supported the Patriot Act.
It is a violation of the Constitution and any politician who supports it should be opposed. We can fight terrorism without curtailing our freedoms. As Franklin said "Any society that would give up a little liberty for a little security will deserve neither and lose both."
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 10:21 PM
Response to Reply #3
12. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
bluestate10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. Look. I said haul-ass. Get out. Sit at home. Do what you want.
The 2010 election for governor in my state proved to me that I can't count on you, but can count on independents. If not for independents overcoming the idiocy of the Greens, unions and other working people in my state would have a republican governor that would be active destroying my state. Go, stay home, what ever in the hell your "principles" dictate.
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white_wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 10:34 PM
Response to Reply #12
21. Seriously, I'm getting sick of the Left bashing here.
If the Dems lose it is because they deserve it, they have became nicer versions of the republicans. To quote Kennedy: If the Democrats run for cover, if we become pale carbon copies of the opposition, we will lose and deserve to lose. The last thing this country needs is two Republican parties.
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bluestate10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 10:43 PM
Response to Reply #21
25. And I am sick of bashing against the 90% of the democratic party that
does not share your view. I see progressives on DU talking all types of blue sky ideas when hard action is what is needed. If government is inadequate, build social solutions that fill the need. Tip O'Neil once said that elections are local. Start by convincing your neighbors and people of your state of the validity of your ideas. But one word of warning that is the trap for Liberals, people expect working solutions, not verbal bullshit with no follow-thru.
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white_wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #25
30. If it wasn't the Left we wouldn't have a lot of the best programs in this country.
It was the Left who pushed FDR to enact some of his best programs including Social Security, it was the left who got Medicare, it was the left wing that pushed civil rights legislation in congress.
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bluestate10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 10:51 PM
Response to Reply #30
33. If moderates did not go along, those programs would not have gotten
off the drawing board. The left has never been powerful enough in this country to implement anything on it's own.
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PassingFair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #25
41. Exactly what 90% are you talking about?
Where is the 90% in a Congress that whose
largest Democratic Caucus is Progressive.

..."people expect working solutions, not verbal bullshit with no follow-thru."

Maybe we would HAVE some "follow-thru" if more Democrats
had conviction and less of them thought like YOU.
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bluestate10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #41
45. How many democrats are in the House? How does 40 legislators stack up to that
number? Lastly, arithmetic obviously was not your strong subject in school, obviously?
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PassingFair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 11:40 PM
Response to Reply #45
47. There are 83 declared members in the Progressive Caucus
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congressional_Progressive_...

They now outnumber the BlueDogs and the New Dems combined.

Lastly, fact-checking obviously was not your strong subject in school, obviously?
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AlabamaLibrul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #3
16. "typical left-wing post" as opposed to what on DU? nt
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bluestate10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #16
23. A post that has ideas that can work. Change is not an abrupt event.
Change happens slowly. Social democracies in europe got that way after hundreds of years through slow change. Reasonable minds understand that. Change is implemented, proves itself then more change is done.
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mitchtv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 10:12 PM
Response to Original message
4. I try to vote D, but that's not always possible
I will vote for the most liberal first, and now I also have "deal Breakers" that can cost a Dem my vote permanently. I have a state senator who voted against Gay marriage, who will never have my vote(short of an epiphany)I spent 40 years voting for the lesser of two evils , from now on , I vote for the candidate I want.I am sick of the "you want Sarah Palin" defense of Dems
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unkachuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 10:13 PM
Response to Original message
5. K&R....n/t
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Bravo Zulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 10:14 PM
Response to Original message
7. The alternatives are unacceptable!
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bluestate10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #7
17. Don't waste your time trying to convince that mindset. Talk to independents, democrats need them
Edited on Sun Apr-24-11 10:31 PM by bluestate10
and can count on independents to help prevent destruction of the nation.
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white_wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 10:17 PM
Response to Original message
9. Always vote on principle.
Edited on Sun Apr-24-11 10:21 PM by white_wolf
Votes are to be earned not given, if everyone voted on principle this country would be much better. "Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone, and you may cherish the sweetest reflection that your vote is never lost. -John Adams.
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AlabamaLibrul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 10:20 PM
Response to Original message
10. I can not think of one House Dem, offhand, who isn't a part of the CPC that I fully respect
Edited on Sun Apr-24-11 10:21 PM by AlabamaLibrul
and stand with, if that tells you anything.

DU's "About Us" says, "we fully intend to make the word "conservative" absolutely radioactive".

In my opinion a self-styled "conservative Democrat" is as good as a Republican - and the votes usually show that.
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MatthewStLouis Donating Member (282 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 10:20 PM
Response to Original message
11. The sad fact is, we vote for representatives not individual issues...
Sometimes, I wish we could vote on individual issues. Kinda like, I wish I could get only the TV channels that I actually watch. Neither thing is ever going to happen. Thus, we are stuck voting for the lesser of two evils.
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hulka38 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 10:30 PM
Response to Original message
18. Any candidate who takes for granted
and ridicules lefties and marginalizes liberal ideals will not have my support. Good post, John.
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emilyg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 11:00 PM
Response to Reply #18
37. I feel the same way.
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 10:32 PM
Response to Original message
20. Settling for the lesser of two evils, time after time, year after year,
Doesn't mean that we get good. It only means that we continue to get evil, only at a slower rate.

Vote for your principals.
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BzaDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 10:35 PM
Response to Original message
22. If your "principles" result in the enabling of candidates with an "R" at the end of their name,
Edited on Sun Apr-24-11 10:38 PM by BzaDem
isn't that a problem with your principles, by definition?

If all someone does is do whatever they possibly can to make sure Republicans are in office, how are they meaningfully different than anyone else who does all they possibly can to make sure Republicans are in office?
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bluestate10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #22
32. Don't waste good logic. Just don't fucking bother. Spend time talking to
independents. My sense is that democrats will need indies more than ever before to stop a catastrophe.
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LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 10:47 PM
Response to Original message
26. This is a canard and strawman; no one does that.
Dedicated partisans are following their principles, and the point is moot because it is extremely rare to find a Democratic candidate that does not offer some benefit over the Republican.
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LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. P.S. I'd love it if the moderators started treating such an accusation as a personal attack
and deleting all the posts where it is made. It is a ridiculous accusation. And tired. Very tired.
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mitchtv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #29
34. I;m sure you would
a good way to get rid of a message board
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LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #34
39. There is at least one dedicated Democratic partisan message board that is doing fine
without such hyperbole and manipulative tactics.
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Snoutport Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 10:47 PM
Response to Original message
28. At this voting D IS the princple... would you vote R?
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Blue-Jay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 10:50 PM
Response to Original message
31. How about this? Do whatever you fucking want to do.
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highplainsdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 10:56 PM
Response to Original message
36. Look at Michigan, Wisconsin & Florida. "Avoiding enabling Republicans" IS a principle, when you
Edited on Sun Apr-24-11 10:57 PM by highplainsdem
know how much damage they can and will do.

"Avoiding enabling ALEC" is another principle. If you want to know why, go to http://www.alec.org and take a look at their model legislation. Or look at the compilation topic on the American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC). Or just one recent topic about ALEC, linked to in reply 245 there, quoting a Washington Post article on the thousands of right-wing bills being pushed and often passed in Republican legislatures around the country.

I've often been disappointed by Democrats, too.

But if you aren't much more worried by what Republicans are now doing, and what they'll do if they have even more power, then you haven't been paying attention.
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bluestate10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 11:19 PM
Response to Reply #36
44. I don't understand the two republican party mindset. Recent events
and the happenings in red states show definitively that there is an enormous difference. More republicans in office is bad for the country. Even a hated blue dog is better, in particular when that blue dog is a dedicated democrat that would not consider changing parties.
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LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 11:00 PM
Response to Original message
38. Here are some of my principles.
1. To put in the due dilligence and research necessary to evaluate the difference between Republicans and Democrats if there is ever doubt of it, which is easily accessible.
2. To be intellectually honest about the documented, objective facts regarding the difference between Republicans and Democrats, including the congressional record and lists of accomplishments of Democratic politicians.
3. To not be dismissive of these objective facts when presented them by other people.
4. To use the Internet political sphere to spread fair evaluations of the Democrats, rather than present a hyperbolic negative picture in an attempt to manipulate our elected officials.
5. To not waste the time of other hard-working activists in making said mendacious claims.
6. To not punish other people who are recieving a benefit from the Democrats by delivering an ultimatum that would affect their lives and livelihood adversely, in order to get more of what I want.
7. To take responsibility for my role in the Democratic Party by realizing that the primary candidates delivered are the result of a consensus, and that if I am dissatisfied with that consensus, that it is my responsibility to try to change it, rather than punish the rest of the people who reached the consensus.
8. To maintain my own credibility when I debate political matters, in order to respect the issues for which I advocate.


Because of these priniciples, I vote for Democrats.
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DevonRex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 11:15 PM
Response to Original message
42. DU rules on this subject are very clear. Voting D is the principled action.
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Gamow Donating Member (226 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 11:28 PM
Response to Original message
46. On principle, I vote AGAINST those with an R at the end of their name. nt
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Rhiannon12866 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 12:03 AM
Response to Original message
48. Locking
Expressing intent to not vote or vote third party, or justifying defeat of any Democratic general election candidate (unless a non-Democrat is most likely to defeat the conservative alternative).

Thanks for your understanding.

Ehiannon12866 - DU Moderator
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