Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

NRA convention expecting 65,000(Pittsburgh,Pa.)

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » General Discussion Donate to DU
 
Bravo Zulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 09:25 PM
Original message
NRA convention expecting 65,000(Pittsburgh,Pa.)
The NRA made the concealed-carry issue a condition of booking the convention, convention center general manager Mark Leahy said, and the center was happy to agree, especially given how smoothly the group's last convention in Pittsburgh went in 2004.

Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11114/1141630-53.stm#ixz...

I don't think they should be letting 65.000 nuts carry guns around Pittsburgh!
Al
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Drale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 09:27 PM
Response to Original message
1. What are they going to do at a NRA convention?
Buy more guns, see new guns? Why do these people's lives revolve around guns?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rgbecker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Follow the money.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Logical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. This is a very gun oriented society. Actually so much so that the Dems are losing votes over it.....
and the Dems need to stop making it an issue. The NRA is a right wing organization that raises millions for the GOP and they spend like 70% of their money on the GOP and 30% on the dems. If we stopped fighting this losing battle then we remove the power of the NRA.

Over a million guns are sold a month. And you can't remove them from the hands if citizens. Stop fighting an issue that we cannot win. It is a lost cause.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kolesar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. I thought we were sex oriented
eom
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Drale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. But thats what I don't understand
It seems in the last 10 years or so, people have become obsessed with guns so much so that I believe some of them would let their families be killed if it meant they could keep their guns. There are plenty of things we should be more focused on then a machine that fires pieces of metal around.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Logical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. I do not disagree that guns are an issue. By issue I mean....
too many in the hands of criminals who use them.

But you can't stop people from buying them at this point. Even if you did there are 290 million in the USA.

My issue is that you should not prevent honest citizens from owning them is the criminals have them.

The NRA is a right wing group of nuts. Their kepnote speakers this year is Huckabee and damn Ted Nugent. Both right wing fools.

But the NRA keeps people scared of the Dems and raises money for the GOP. We need to stop letting them but stopping fighting the gun issue.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Drale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. I'm not saying people shouldn't be allowed to have guns
but it shouldn't be the focus of our lives, like it is with way to many people these days.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Logical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. I 100% agree with you. Too much gun love from many people. n-t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HankyDubs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. we remove the power of the NRA
by totally capitulating? LMAO!!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Logical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 09:43 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. Well your LMAO is cute but not productive.....
please tell me how you are going to fight the gun battle at this point. I want a serious answer. How do you remove the 300 millions guns in houses at this point and how do you ban future gun sales? How would you frame the attack against gun rights without losing voters?

And is this the major issue you want to choose over all others?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HankyDubs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 10:08 PM
Response to Reply #13
21. well being a person who has frequented the gungeon
I've heard several reasonable suggestions. Here are some:

spousal notification
licensing of all firearms owners (gungeon people love to compare guns to cars, why not treat them the same way?)
expanded and improved NICS checks
closing the private seller loophole

This is not the issue I want to choose above all others. It is, however, completely insane to say that we eliminate the power of the NRA by capitulating.

"How do you remove the 300 millions guns in houses at this point"

You don't. This is the classing shrieking point that is constantly spouted, but that's not what I'm interested in for a couple reasons (including the fact that it would be unconstitutional).
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Logical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #21
39. You have to ask what those 4 items will do as far as gun deaths.....
I do not see you getting any of the above passed. Ever. And no way any "license all firearms" will pass any senate/house. They gun fans will throw a fit and no politician will touch it. It is 100% un-winnable. And gives the NRA more reason to raise money and beat Dems over the head with gun issues.
I agree with improved NICS checks and maybe that could pass.
The private loophole would be another bad fight that I think is not going to fly. Even if it did, stolen guns will always be an issue and felons already go to prison if they have a gun and it does not stop them. The more guns people buy means more stolen Guns.

The NRA has used the anti-gun meme to raise millions. The more we fight un-winnable gun battles the more we help the NRA and the GOP.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HankyDubs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #39
45. you repeat their memes
Such as "taking away all the guns" so you have no ground to stand on.

"I do not see you getting any of the above passed..."

Because you keep taking the NRA side? Because you lack vision everyone else should give up?

"They gun fans will throw a fit..."

They throw a fit no matter what. They are tantrum throwers.

"Even if it did, stolen guns will always be an issue..."

The idea is to reduce the number of guns in the hands of those who should not have them, not to eliminate the problem entirely.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Logical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #45
47. What did I say that is incorrect? Cocaine is illegal! And has no lobby group.....
But is easily available! Guns are legal. And you want more controls why? What do you think it will prevent? Please use facts.

Worry more about wars, abortion, SS, healthcare, gitmo, etc.

You are using emotion on the topic and not logic.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HankyDubs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #47
51. Emotion?
Edited on Mon Apr-25-11 02:35 PM by HankyDubs
you should avoid insulting those who appeal to emotion, since gun advocates do it constantly. The constant appeals to the emotion of fear (of government, of criminals, of minorities) are a staple of the gun rights movement. Dont shove that horsecrap at me. Even you have emotions, and it is preferable to have emotions than to be without them.

You promoted this right wing NRA lie on several occasions here : "How do you remove the 300 millions guns in houses at this point?"

This is a heaping pile of bullshit. This isn't possible, it isnt constitutional, and it isn't the purpose of any of the laws on the books or the ones proposed by me or any other serious person.

I advocate more controls so that we have fewer gun deaths. Duhrrrr. I look to Canada, since Canada is also a gun-heavy society with far fewer incidents each year than we have.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Logical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #51
52. I ask you AGAIN.......What law will prevent fewer gun deaths? And how many votes....
do you want to lose in trying to implement it when it will fail anyway.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HankyDubs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #52
54. I already listed some ideas for you
Do I really need to repeat myself?

As for your question about votes, I categorically reject the false choice you offer.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProgressiveProfessor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 09:45 AM
Response to Reply #21
41. Some of those "suggestions" are from those who support the current racist and classist gun laws
not the RKBA/pro civil rights supporters.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #41
44. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
DainBramaged Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 10:41 PM
Response to Reply #4
28. Sure, keep spreading the "they are going to take our guns" bullshit meme of the Right
and line the pockets of the NRA and all connected.


Fear, and you've bit the apple.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #4
48. I don't see where the dems are making it an issue. The only ones I see
making it an issue are the nra and teabaggers.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #4
55. how about 'do the right thing'
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Logical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 09:27 PM
Response to Original message
2. Then you are predicting issues with it? Based on what? See how it goes and report back! n-t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HankyDubs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. the NRA is taking away freedumbs from attendees!!!
Edited on Sun Apr-24-11 09:41 PM by HankyDubs
"The convention is attended by a good number of families, and the exhibit areas are designed to be safe for children -- the guns on display are disabled, no live ammunition is exhibited (canine sweeps will check daily for gunpowder), and attendees carrying weapons are barred from unholstering them. Manufacturers will be showing off their latest models, but firearms will not be on sale on-site as they would be at a gun show."

I can only imagine the howls of the gun...errr..."enthusiasts" if this kind of protection were accorded to all neighborhoods around the US. "Safe for children," but only at the NRA convention...everyone else can go fuck themselves.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Logical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. In a closed convention center is much different than a neighborhood. n-t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HankyDubs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #14
23. yeah, in our neighborhoods
no one can predict that the guns were purchased legally or are in the hands of relatively sane individuals. On the streets, there are no protections for innocents whatsoever.

What is the NRA afraid of? I guess it would be a black eye for the organization if a crazy person started murdering people as happens every single day in our neighborhoods.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Logical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. And how do you stop the crazy person? n-t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HankyDubs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 10:43 PM
Response to Reply #24
29. don't sell them a gun
Edited on Sun Apr-24-11 10:45 PM by HankyDubs
you really see no irony in the fact that the NRA goes to these lengths to protect attendees, lengths it would oppose when it came to the general population?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Logical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 11:46 PM
Response to Reply #29
36. I hate the NRA but they stay out of stadium bans!
Edited on Sun Apr-24-11 11:47 PM by Logical
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Travis_0004 Donating Member (417 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 09:35 PM
Response to Original message
7. I'm just sad they are not expecting 65,001
If I had more notice that it was going to be somewhat close to my house, I would have gone, but I have to work.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cid_B Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. Are you an NRA member?
They send out a TON of mail. I usually get something daily.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JustABozoOnThisBus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #10
50. You actually read all that stuff?
I'm in awe.

I just figure they're grubbing for money again and pitch it without opening.

I hope I didn't pitch something useful.

:hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cid_B Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #50
53. Meh...
It comes to my phone as well so I usually get to about half of it... and skip the chance to buy new insurance etc.. etc...

Occasionally, I will call the state senator to support whichever bill needs a push as per the state by state breakdowns.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Logical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #7
16. How can you attend that right wing meeting? Huckabee? Nugent. Jesus. n-t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cid_B Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 09:52 PM
Response to Original message
17. I'll bet...
... that convention center and the area surrounding it will see a dramatic decrease in crime.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Logical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Not a bad guess. By all the stats, concealed carry license holders....
are a extremely lawful bunch. More so than the average population. Mostly because you have to be crime free to get a CC license.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
safeinOhio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #18
35. That is why the same background checks,
gun safety training and knowledge of the law should be applied to all sales of handguns as it does to us CCW holders. If it works, few crimes by licensed CCW holders, it would work with the whole population. If those requirements are legal for a license to carry a concealed handgun, then they would also be Constitutional for any purchase of a handgun. I am not including rifles.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Logical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 11:49 PM
Response to Reply #35
38. I have no issue with that! And renews every 5 years!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blueclown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 09:59 PM
Response to Original message
19. 65,000 crazies in one place.
Somebody lock the door and swallow the key.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cid_B Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. It's easy to bash with with a wide brush...
... but what is your specific concern?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blueclown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #20
27. For the safety of our country.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cid_B Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #27
32. Well that was ambiguous...
I'll try again. What are your specific concerns?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
-..__... Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 10:10 PM
Response to Original message
22. The counter protesters will be out in force!!
F33r their numbers!!

:scared: :scared: :scared:...

Posting 3 out of 7 messages...


Marc Pirollo
i have a wedding to go to so i wont be able to make it-
happy easter brother!

Harold Garlick
I won't be able to get into PGH that day.

Ronald Fowler
We will be in Chicago,Ill

http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=161075493951777


:rofl:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
demosincebirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 10:37 PM
Response to Original message
25. What interesting things do they do at a NRA convention?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
doc03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 10:37 PM
Response to Original message
26. Not that I would attend anyway but PA doesn't recognise my Ohio
CCW permit.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RamboLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 11:16 PM
Response to Reply #26
33. Hey Ohio doesn't recognize my PA
Got a Utah for that.

I'm going to go to the show Friday.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HankyDubs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. don't forget to shower afterward!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RamboLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #34
49. You know what - I have a lot of friends in the shooting community
NRA members & I'm sure Republicans. Even friendly with a Tea Partier. They are nice people. We even discuss politics. I take some kidding for being the liberal member. On politics we just agree to disagree. And on some issues we agree - just from different sides of the issue.

Some here are no different in broad brush painting gun owners than Freepers painting liberals.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
safeinOhio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 11:48 PM
Response to Reply #33
37. Where a shirt that says
you vote Democratic, and see what kind of reaction you get from that "bipartisan" organization.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
doc03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 10:43 PM
Response to Original message
30. Keynote speaker Mike Huckabee, Michael Reagan
presenting the Ronald Reagan Award for Wing-nut of the Year, nut job Ted Nugent and Republican shill Wayne La Pierre.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DainBramaged Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 10:44 PM
Response to Original message
31. Biggest whose gun is biggest gathering of the century!
Edited on Sun Apr-24-11 11:00 PM by DainBramaged
Or, got any barrel polish? And you can BET THE FARM it will be an anti-Obama hate-fest too.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProgressiveProfessor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #31
42. Actually I think the SHOT show is bigger
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 09:18 AM
Response to Original message
40. Sounds delightful. Unfortunately, I will be at the royal wedding.
:D
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
The Straight Story Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 10:12 AM
Response to Original message
43. So it is your (and others') contention that there will be a lot of shooting? And if not. what then?
I guess the people who apply for conceal carry do so because they are law abiding people.

If you're going to kill/shoot someone why would you worry about a conceal carry law? Makes no sense...much like the fear of many here of their fellow citizens, but then politicians know how to get us all afraid of each other and pit us against each other.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kentauros Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 11:29 AM
Response to Original message
46. That's a lot of restauranteurs
with concealed-carry knife sets! :P

http://www.restaurant.org
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hifiguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 04:07 PM
Response to Original message
56. When a certain volume of hydrogen and helium
coaslesces around a high-gravity point, it eventually crushes in on itself from the accumulated gravity and becomes a star - at least within my limited knowledge of astronomy and cosmology.

What happens when a sufficient amount of stupidity and paranoia coalesces in one place?

We may soon find out, it seems.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RamboLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 04:33 PM
Response to Original message
57. Pink pistols, fitted gear: NRA event will court women
Dyanna Auston is the kind of woman the National Rifle Association looks for.

The single mom browsed Anthony Arms & Accessories in West Mifflin last week and bought a .38-caliber, pink-gripped Taurus pistol for personal protection. It's the first gun for Auston of Duquesne, and though she's not a member of the NRA, she said she'd consider joining and checking out this weekend's 2011 Annual Meetings & Exhibits in the David L. Lawrence Convention Center for gun accessories geared toward women.

"I wanted a gun, and I wanted it to be girlie, so I went straight for the pink one," Auston, 21, said as she shopped with her sister Dawntaya Auston, 27, who owns a black 9 mm pistol. "I want to be able to protect myself."

Women increasingly are becoming gun owners in the United States, and manufacturers and retailers are tailoring products and classes toward the burgeoning market, instructors and an NRA spokeswoman said.

The NRA's national convention, which runs Friday through Sunday, expects to draw 65,000 to 70,000 people in its first return to Pittsburgh since 2004. A large portion of the more than 400 exhibitors will display products geared toward women, including pink and pearl gun grips and handles, designer leather purses that double as gun holsters, and hunting clothing fitted for a woman's body, said NRA spokeswoman Rachel Parsons.



Read more: Pink pistols, fitted gear: NRA event will court women - Pittsburgh Tribune-Review http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/pit...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pinto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 04:38 PM
Response to Original message
58. DU recognizes that we have members on both sides of 2nd Amendment issues.
In that light, we routinely remove references along the lines of "gun nuts". As we do similarly dismissive references to the other side's point of view.

It's a heated topic here and in public discourse. We want to foster reasonable discussion as best we can. Thanks.

Locking.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Tue Sep 16th 2014, 08:34 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » General Discussion Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC