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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 05:21 PM
Original message
Well, At Least They Laid It Out For Us... 'Wow. Just Wow.' - DailyKos
Wow. Just Wow.
by Ross Lampert - DailyKos
SUN APR 24, 2011 AT 12:41 PM PDT

<snip>

As part of the US Uncut movement, on April 1st I sent an email to the organizer of the local Tea Party group in a (perhaps naive) attempt to bring the two groups together around a common cause. Here's my email:

Subj: Portland Uncut/Portland Tea Party Alliance?

Hi XXXXX,

I'm involved in the Uncut movement an was thinking that the Tea Party may be open to working together to get corporations who are not paying any taxes to pay their fair share. While I know that we may disagree on what represents a fair share and how those tax revenues should be used, I'm sure we can agree that the corporations who are paying nothing while making huge profits (or even claiming a tax rebate), are cheaters and need to pay into the system they use, just like the rest of us. As you said at the TP rally on tax day 2009, it's not a partisan issue, so I hope we can come together around tax fairness for these corporate tax cheats. What do you think?

Ross Lampert


I had watched a video of the Oregon Tea Party event in 2009 where the organizer spoke and he seemed somewhat reasonable. I got a response back from him fairly quickly saying:

Ross,

I've cc'd your message to the current TP chair.

With kind regards,

XXXXX


I asked him to keep me posted, but never heard back. A friend from the Uncut movement asked me on the 21st if I ever heard back from them and when I said I hadn't, he said it wasn't surprising and sent me a link from their website to a posting called Rules for Republicans.

I read this and was blown away. I understand not agreeing with someone's ideas or their reasoning, (see my series: Deflating Conservative Arguments), but this was way beyond the pale. This seems more like hate speech than any rational thought and it actually scared me. When we cannot have a conversation with people who disagree with us, when there is no trust, when they think of us as "evil", what is next? This is the kind of talk that lead to the genocide of my people. This is the kind of talk that lead to the genocide in Rwanda. It is wretched and it doesn't belong in our political discourse. Follow me below the fold for more specifics...

<snip>

Kos Diary Link: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/04/24/969765/-Wow-Ju...

Oregon Tea Party Link: http://www.oregonteaparty.org/rules-for-republicans.php

American Thinker Link: http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/09/rules_for_republ...

And they are:


1. The era of liberalism is over.
Today there are no liberals in power; there are only radical leftists. They are the enemy, not the opposition. Their ideology is not simply wrong; it is evil.

2. It is impossible to be too cynical about the intentions, motives, and truthfulness of radical leftists.
They will always exceed our most horrifying expectations.

3. Radical leftists are continually seeking to destroy America's historic foundations, particularly our Constitution.
Their goal is to rebuild upon the rubble according to their own evil vision and to gratify their insatiable lust for tyrannical power.

4. Radical leftists are continually seeking to infiltrate and undermine American institutions.
They are especially attracted to institutions where there are unearned wealth, sinecures, and ambiguous standards of accomplishment.

5. Our people must always be seeking to restore America's tested, historic, foundational principles and to guard and protect our Constitution and our cherished institutions.

6. Civility must never trump truthfulness.
Civility is a highly commendable virtue; truthfulness is vastly more commendable.

7. Ideology must never trump truthfulness.
We Republicans need to constantly examine our own ideological principles to make sure they are, first and foremost, true. Then we must proclaim them boldly and straightforwardly.

8. Never try to out-compassion a bleeding-heart radical leftist.
Conservatism is the most compassionate -- and most truthful -- political philosophy there is. Radical leftism, by contrast, is based on false promises intended not to better the lives of anyone, but to recruit gullible, ignorant people as "useful idiots."

9. Challenge radical leftists to live up to their own publicly proclaimed ethical principles.
They never do. They just fake it. (Cf. Alinsky Rule #4: "Make the enemy live up to their own book of rules.")

10. Refuse to use the favorite language of the radical left.
Their language is always intended to spread lies and propaganda and to create confusion, fear, and retreat, not to convey truthful information.

11. The language our people use should boldly convey real information accurately, precisely, and above all, truthfully.

12. Ridicule is man's most potent weapon.
This is Alinsky Rule #5, word for word, but we Republicans have a special advantage in applying it to radical leftists because ridicule or satire, to be really effective, must be rooted in truth. That's why leftist ridicule flops; it's usually based on lies.

13. Attempting to reason with intractable, hardcore radical leftists will always end in futility.
Such people are incorrigibly anti-rational, so it is impossible to establish an authentic interlocutory interface with them. The only realistic way to engage them is to crush them politically, using any and all truthful and lawful tactics.

:kick:



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DJ13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 05:27 PM
Response to Original message
1. This is the only thing that comes to mind from that


:wtf:
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cantbeserious Donating Member (270 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 05:28 PM
Response to Original message
2. "You Say You Want A Revolution ..." - The War Is On!
eom
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MedleyMisty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 05:31 PM
Response to Original message
3. They project everything
All of this applies to what they do.

And yes, this is what leads to genocide. This is fascism. It needs to be stopped.
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NCcoast Donating Member (114 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 11:39 PM
Response to Reply #3
39. Yep
I'm always amused when I hear conservatives talking about liberals as if we organize ourselves and behave in the same way they do. We don't. I realize we'd be more effective at combating them if we did but, it's just not who we are. We wait until the overreach becomes unbearable before we come out swinging. And we're just about there. If they were smart they'd back off and let us settle down before pushing their advantage. But they're not. They think they're about to realize their dystopian vision of the world and they're over reaching like crazy. We can always count on that. They'll always go way too far.

Hey neighbor :hi:
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chillspike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #3
74. On the contrary
I believe the myth they have of us as evil needs to be encouraged.
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Nancy Waterman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 05:33 PM
Response to Original message
4. Lots of projection in there
I think whoever wrote it was looking in the mirror.
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Well...
Paul Jacobson is a freelance writer living in Cleveland, Missouri. He can be contacted at
pjpublications@fairpoint.net

From the end of the American Thinker piece.

:shrug:
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #4
15. Agree..something very Weird and Bizarre about this Post...Disinformation of Some Kind...!
What is this all about..

It's confusing and seems very much like Propaganda..of some sort...a Mix of Right Dem and Left Repug.

In all...it seems like some kind of "Chopped up Meat" that I throw a few potatoes in for HASH on a bad night when I'm tired to cook.

:wtf:
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. Did You Check Out The Links I Provided ???
:shrug:

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Maraya1969 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 01:07 AM
Response to Reply #17
45. The links at "The American Thinker" show advertisements.
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freshwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #45
85. All con sites have ads. The Rules for Republicans and the quotes from Alinsky are lower on the page.
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freshwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #15
84. Nothing wrong with it, it's straight from Kos and fully linked.
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Mz Pip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 05:34 PM
Response to Original message
5. Radical leftists...
Repeating it over and over again still doesm't make it true.

What a bunch of crap.
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 05:36 PM
Response to Original message
6. Ten and Eleven are very interesting.
Edited on Sun Apr-24-11 05:56 PM by The Backlash Cometh
Since English is the preferred language of the left, does that mean that the conservatives realize they're outmatched?

And eleven is interesting since the last time conservatives tried to match Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert their show went flat because conservatives' idea of satire comes across as racism.
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Mojeoux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. agreement nt
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robinlynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 05:38 PM
Response to Original message
8. well, now it all makes sense. Except for the last sentence. Their tactics are netiher truthful nor
lawful.
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Curmudgeoness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 05:44 PM
Response to Original message
9. Wow, just wow. So now the word liberal is not derogatory enough.
Now it is radical leftists. And I love when they constantly throw the word truth around. As if they would know it if it bit them in the ass. I have come to believe that there is not just "a truth". My truth is not their truth. "Tell the TRUTH, Obama was born in Kenya." Or the newest one on me from a teabag coworker, "The TRUTH is that the Democrats are trying to destroy SS and Medicare."

I have fallen down the rabbit hole. Up is down and Lucy is in the sky with diamonds. I'll just have to hang out with the caterpillar for a while.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #9
22. I think the whole post and links are very confusing and deceptive as to what the view is..
sorry..but that's my humble opinion. Meant to confuse?
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #22
27. No... The Author Of The Diary Was Telling How He Came Upon These "Rules"...
and then attempts to analyze and refute them one by one.

The original source, as far as I can tell, is the American Thinker piece.

:shrug:
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Curmudgeoness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #22
30. The point is that this is out there, and listed on some teabag
sites. I have actually been hit with a few points right out of this list, and I have no doubt I will be hit with more in the future. I have seen some of this in letters to the editor. Some of these nutcases are reading and following this list. Downright scary, no matter what the origin is.
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spedtr90 Donating Member (459 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 05:57 PM
Response to Original message
11. Items in their store sum it all up
"NO COMPROMISE"

They can't compromise because they are reducing us to something less than human.
These guys are just waiting to be told to button up their brown shirts and get down to business.
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sasha031 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 06:03 PM
Response to Original message
12. listening to Chris Hedges
being a war correspondent for years. he is not to optimistic about the US.

If our economy goes into other free fall it could get real serious. He was speaking of what happened in Bosnia years back, it was very scary.
My hope is people will wake up. Seeing what is happening at the Town Hall meeting lately is a little encouraging.

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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 06:06 PM
Response to Original message
13. Willy T...this is incredible post..but "Who are YOUR People?" Quote from you:


read this and was blown away. I understand not agreeing with someone's ideas or their reasoning, (see my series: Deflating Conservative Arguments), but this was way beyond the pale. This seems more like hate speech than any rational thought and it actually scared me. When we cannot have a conversation with people who disagree with us, when there is no trust, when they think of us as "evil", what is next? This is the kind of talk that lead to the genocide of my people. This is the kind of talk that lead to the genocide in Rwanda. It is wretched and it doesn't belong in our political discourse. Follow me below the fold for more specifics...

<snip>

What are you talking about here...as "Your People?' I've kicked and responded to your posts for a couple years here on DU...but didn't really get this post that you've put out.

Thanks! and Peace!

What is it you are talking about?
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. What You Bolded Is Not From Me...
It's from the linked diary at DailyKos.

It from the author of the piece, Ross Lampert.

If you go to that part of the piece, "my people" is a hyperlink which takes you here: http://www.martinfrost.ws/htmlfiles/holocaust.html

:shrug:
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #13
21. Willy T...I'm just not getting anything from your links except some RW stuff...
I really think you need to state YOUR position...because the stuff/links is obscure.
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ThatPoetGuy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 06:06 PM
Response to Original message
14. "Leftist ridicule flops" because it is "based on lies"?
This is a mad world, where Jon Stewart, Steven Colbert, and Bill Maher have "flopped," as opposed to the success of Fox News' wildly successful comedy show. It lasted, what, four episodes?

If they believe their own argument, that humor based on lies is doomed to fail, then they'd have to conclude that liberals hold the truth.
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #14
20. They don't understand that Stephen Colbert is satire.
Edited on Sun Apr-24-11 06:28 PM by Ian David
Also, they note that The Smothers Brothers and Laugh-In are no longer on the air, thus proving their point.


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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #14
56. You don't understand...
They'd have to be able to use reason to draw such conclusions.

They can't. They don't even understand how it works. They are convinced they can simply believe whatever they want to and thus it is true... even when those beliefs are diametrically opposed.

For example; these people will swear to you they are bipartisan (because that sounds like the reasonable thing to be), but they will also swear by this list which is the very epitome of partisanship.

They are twisted, irrational creatures. There is simply no reasoning with them because they don't know how.
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Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 06:17 PM
Response to Original message
18. Sounds desperate, doesn't it?
You'd never find our side agreeing to a "Rules for Democrats". It's sounds like your typical Republican authoritarian screed. "Lalalalala...I can't hear you". There is no dialog to be had with this type of person. He's an anti-socialist who is conditioned to salivate when the term 'leftist' is said.

But I think I detect a whiff of fear in this diareibe. Perhaps he senses his fellow Rightists might be thinking more and getting a case of weak knees, supporting a political agenda that is not in their best interests? How soon before Loyalty pledges will be demanded?
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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 06:25 PM
Response to Original message
19. Both sides do it.
See the accusations of "projecting" above.
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #19
24. Even If That Were True, Which It Is Not, Only One Side Puts It's Most Radical...
philosophies into law.

:shrug:

Just LOVE those false equivalencies.

:puke:
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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #24
28. How are accusations of projection not equivalency?
Or is it because in the case of the right those things are true?
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LanternWaste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #28
81. I believe it may be due to
I believe it may be due to only one side codifying into party regulation the rudeness, thus going beyond toleration into outright acceptance of these tenets rather than simply help onto as a personal belief by the individual.

If both "sides" are known to do this, then perhaps the equivalency en toto would be valid.
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 03:01 AM
Response to Reply #24
47. i don't think that during the earlier days of the Tea Party, they had
such disregard (hate) for all things liberal. I think very early on the Tea Party was hijacked and it went from being a Party that opposed the Federal Reserve, and the current tax system, to a Party of Sarah Palin, killing Mooses, firing teachers and hating liberals, among many other atrocious ideas.
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Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #47
54. nopers. rightwing astroturf from day one.
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demwing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #54
76. Nope, you're not accurate at all.
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Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #76
78. Really? not accurate at all?
So in your view CNBC's Rick Santelli is not hooked up to the rightwing mob, just a regular guy, and the massive funding and organizational mentoring of groups like the Koch's Americans for Prosperity and Refugnut big honcho Dick Armey's Freedomworks, all that shit is just a grassroots spontaneous coincidence?

Seriously?
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demwing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 09:20 AM
Response to Reply #78
94. Sure, the Tea Party was bought and paid for by the Koch brothers
Edited on Tue Apr-26-11 09:25 AM by demwing
But it STARTED as a series of loose knit, grass roots protests, some not even called "Tea Party" protests, but which certainly incorporated the ideals of the movement.

Despite how he might be "hooked up", Santelli's big contribution to the Tea Party was his viral rant against Obama's Homeowners Affordability and Stability Plan, which occured in Feb '09. By that time, Ron Paul had been calling for Tea Party style protests for years, and several smaller Tea Party styled protests had already taken place.

Santellu rant just added a little national attention to the issue. This actually supports truedelphi's point - that the tea party started as a grass roots community, but was co-opted by big money interests very quickly.

If you have any evidence that the Koch brothers have been there "since day 1" I'd be glad to hear about it.
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Commie Pinko Dirtbag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #19
35. Rushing to the defense of your comrades as always. The persistency is almost commendable.
:eyes:
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HughBeaumont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 07:48 AM
Response to Reply #35
92. I guess birfer nonsense is included in that repetoire now.
"Both sides do it" . . . sheesh. How did that quote go: "I don't know of any member of congress that thinks our government did 9/11, but how many Republican congresspeople think Barack Obama's a radical socialist? ALL OF THEM!!"
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Quantess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 12:23 AM
Response to Reply #19
43. You sincerely believe that?
Except for gratuitous Hitler references, which unfortunately neither side can resist, you really believe the Left is projecting?
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Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #19
53. stunningly predictable.
isn't it time for another birfer op?
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Thunderstruck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 06:32 PM
Response to Original message
23. That's hardcore nazi-like shit there.
Edited on Sun Apr-24-11 06:46 PM by Thunderstruck

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harun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 09:28 AM
Response to Reply #23
51. +1
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stevedeshazer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 06:35 PM
Response to Original message
25. Holy shit.
I'm an Oregonian, and I am passing this on to everyone I know.

Thanks for posting.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 06:35 PM
Response to Original message
26. I say things just as derrogatory about the tea party
and so does virtually everyone who posts here. I think their ideology is vile and disgusting and dishonest and bigoted.
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 06:45 PM
Response to Original message
29. These fuckers are sick
Ideological purity - only they know truth. What fucking arrogance.
EPIC FAIL!!
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surrealAmerican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 07:07 PM
Response to Original message
31. There is only one reasonable item on that list ...
... and they ignore it: number 7.
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butterfly77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 08:10 PM
Response to Original message
32. ...
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 09:02 PM
Response to Original message
33. revolting -- and i mean that in the fullest possible way.
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Crunchy Frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 09:23 PM
Response to Original message
34. Lots of projection going on there. They are describing themselves to a T.
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savannah43 Donating Member (198 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #34
75. In the immortal words of Pee Wee Herman and children
everywhere: "I know you are, but what am I?"
I would like to know who wrote that for them, as anyone stupid enough to believe that drivel is too stupid to have written it.
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Urban Prairie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 09:37 PM
Response to Original message
36. "We Republicans need to constantly examine our own ideological principles"
Bwaahaha..talk about a fool's errand.

"The only realistic way to engage them is to crush them politically, using any and all truthful and lawful tactics."

Like doing everything in their power to falsely and/or illegally prevent them from voting or changing/altering the results of their votes?

As well as pressuring their reps in DC ever harder for further slashing the funding of "entitlements" and achieving their true and ultimate goal, which is the eventual elimination of most, if not better still, ALL government services and programs, so that the "radical left's" only remaining preoccupation is mere survival?
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Hissyspit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 10:36 PM
Response to Original message
37. Radical Leftists want to "gratify their insatiable lust for tyrannical power."
LOL

Now, that's just fucking stupid.
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Crunchy Frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #37
89. That's just fucking projection.
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Quantess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 11:28 PM
Response to Original message
38. you really expected anything else from teabaggers?
These people believe the shit that Glenn Beck feeds them. The majority of teabaggers are stupid and unreasonable.
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PassingFair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 11:48 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. TeaBaggers? This crap sounds like it was written by...
Edited on Mon Apr-25-11 12:03 AM by PassingFair
LoZoccolo or BlueState10 !!

Really, I just read this kind of screed against
"the radical left wing" in some of their threads.

:eyes:
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Quantess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 12:06 AM
Response to Reply #40
42. This thread is confusing.
I feel like I stepped into something weird.
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RandomThoughts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 11:50 PM
Response to Original message
41. The comment that they can not be reasoned has an explanation.
If you have a fundamental different view of what is important, you wont agree.

If you believe you should own everything on the table, then chose how it is distributed, and that is your founding belief. You wont agree with someone that does not give you that authority.

Nobody is going to be persuaded to what you know is correct, no matter how you talk to them.



The idea that people can not be persuaded, has two forms, if you are wrong, you can not logically or empathetically change there mind, or if you are right and they wont listen and learn, including learning basic concepts of humanity.

If you believe in survival of the fittest, might makes right, you are not going to be able to persuade someone that believes in more community ideas that it is ok to destroy and crush the weak. It wont happen, becuase of difference in core beliefs.


But if the two groups have a fundamental different make up of values and what is right and wrong, then they don't agree unless you go all the way back to what they believe and discuss that. All the negotiations between a liberal and conservative should go all the way back to self or community. Since that is much of it.


There are college classes that teach selfishness is peoples primary motive, they actually teach that, and manufacture some of the types of people that embrace that concept. If you have that concept, you wont agree with someone in anything that does not advantage you in some way. (why game theory by Nash was so profound, it found a way to negotiate with people stuck in self motive by win win)

But anyways, unless you get to the core motive there are some positions people will not be able to negotiate on, becuase they have a different base motive for existence.




Never try to out-compassion a bleeding-heart radical leftist.
Conservatism is the most compassionate -- and most truthful -- political philosophy there is. Radical leftism, by contrast, is based on false promises intended not to better the lives of anyone, but to recruit gullible, ignorant people as "useful idiots."


That statement says they believe liberalism is a lie with an ulterior motive, or that only tough love will help make a person better. The basic concept that 'help hurts' becuase they wont toughen up. But why does everyone have to be locked and loaded all the time and really strong anyways, cant we have some people in society helped and not trained to be savagely capable of being independent in all things? Why not have people that also rely on parts of society working together.



Labeling something as evil, is not an argument but using a loaded word to change impression. Why is it evil, explain what is evil about it. And why that is evil.

Only argument I see is saying Liberalism is evil becuase it tries to help people, when if they help themselves they will toughen up and get better, that is about the best they got, however liberalism can give fishing poles not fish, by training and programs that help people improve also.

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Moostache Donating Member (905 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #41
83. Ask them for specifics and watch them shut the hell up in a milisecond.
That entire list is filled with non-specific, ad-homimen attack lines...Christ, it reads like a Fox News talking points memo for how to project your worst behaviors onto your opponents!

My personal favorite is this gem:
Conservatism is the most compassionate -- and most truthful -- political philosophy there is.

I want to know exactly how I am supposed to take anyone seriously when the gist of their argument is essentially "because I said its true, so therefore it is true and now that you've heard me say it then its also true that 'some people say...', so therefore you disagreeing with my opinion makes you an intractable villain."

Specifics would be nice....

Conservatism is the most truthful compared to WHAT? and HOW? and WHEN? and BY WHOM?
And the compassionate part...yeah, I think the country was forced to accept THAT nonsense once already and we are going to be paying the tab for it for a very long time to come now.

Compassion and empathy are two things that most conservatives are totally absent in my experience...hey, I could be wrong, there might be some damn fine compassionate conservatives out there somewhere, but if so they are hiding on that same island that National Enquirer found Elvis and JFK having summit meetings with Roswell aliens...
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 01:06 AM
Response to Original message
44. PRO-JEC-TION
Say it with me, boys and girls....
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freshwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 01:07 AM
Response to Original message
46. Thanks, WillyT. K & R!
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JAbuchan08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 08:02 AM
Response to Original message
48. projection much? n/t
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hobbit709 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 08:09 AM
Response to Original message
49. On any given day inside their pointy little heads
it's hard to tell which will burst out first, the stupid or the hate.
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CrossChris Donating Member (641 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 09:23 AM
Response to Original message
50. I honestly don't think this should discourage us from reaching across the aisle
I've had great success talking to conservatives on discussion boards that don't center around politics (sports, movies, etc. -- where there's an off-topic board meant for such discussions).

I've found that the most extreme partisans do in fact put up a tough front, as evidenced by the OP. But when the essence of what you're saying sinks in, and a few people say, "that actually makes sense", you can actually get consensus on your side. I think bipartisan populism is possible, and I think the elites will discourage it as much as they can. I don't think we should be discouraged so easily---keep your cool, and your wit, and you can actually reach a lot of conservatives on a populist level.
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olegramps Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 09:42 AM
Response to Original message
52. Why would anyone be surprised?
The Tea-baggers sole source of information is from the extreme right-wing propagandists. If you travel in rural areas and the South virtually every restaurant and bar exclusively airs FOX. Radios are dutifully tuned to Limbaugh, Hannity, Savage, with constant barrage of extortions. It is 1984 having become a reality.
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Martin Eden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 12:19 PM
Response to Original message
55. 6, 7, & 11 are reasonable ...
... except they wouldn't know the truth if it bit them on the ass.
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TygrBright Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
57. Heh. If there's a "useful idiot" in the room, I know who it is... n/t
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progressoid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 02:48 PM
Response to Original message
58. They have drunk the kool-aid of Reverends Rush, Hannity, Levin, Beck....
Reason is not in part of their religion.
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Blue_In_AK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 02:49 PM
Response to Original message
59. I'm proud to "horrify" them so.
What a joke.
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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 02:53 PM
Response to Original message
60. Up against the wall, redneck mothers.
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vim876 Donating Member (268 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #60
80. Please.
You know perfectly well that no matter what extremist idealogues come to power, the first against the wall are ALWAYS center-left intellectuals.
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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 10:34 PM
Response to Reply #80
87. You say you want a revolution? Well, you know
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L0oniX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 02:55 PM
Response to Original message
61. BOOOOO! ...Scared yet?
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semillama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 02:56 PM
Response to Original message
62. "Leftist Ridicule flops"???
Please, someone tell that to John Stewart, Steven Colbert, et al.
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Corruption Winz Donating Member (581 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 03:00 PM
Response to Original message
63. So, the rules aren't really rules...
They're just telling you what to think. Hmmmmmm... interesting.

It's not brainwashing, of course. Because THAT would be crazy.
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Gregorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 03:04 PM
Response to Original message
64. Heart of Darkness
I just had to say that. It was spontaneous.
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Politicalboi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 03:34 PM
Response to Original message
65. LOL!
The "truth" Are they sure they want the "truth"? I would say Tina Fey handled this one real well. And Jon Stewart has used the truth many times to ridicule these assholes.

12. Ridicule is man's most potent weapon.
This is Alinsky Rule #5, word for word, but we Republicans have a special advantage in applying it to radical leftists because ridicule or satire, to be really effective, must be rooted in truth. That's why leftist ridicule flops; it's usually based on lies.
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Utopian Leftist Donating Member (204 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 03:38 PM
Response to Original message
66. Their ridiculous hypocrasy shines very clearly here:
7. Ideology must never trump truthfulness.
We Republicans need to constantly examine our own ideological principles to make sure they are, first and foremost, true. Then we must proclaim them boldly and straightforwardly.

Those two statements are of course, laughably opposed to each other. In the first, "Ideology must never trump truthfulness," they say something not only true but important: that people mustn't get so caught up in ideological thinking that they forget to face the facts.

In the second statement the writer goes crazy, first by "making sure" their ideological principles are true. (How exactly would one do that, pray tell? Ideologies are by their nature extremist and therefore not always applicable, relevant or true.) "Then we must proclaim then boldly"??? Anyone else seeing a gigantic (and ridiculous) leap in logic there?

First they put truth over ideology. Then they equate truth with ideology. And finally they proclaim that idiotic ideology loudly. Lather, rinse and repeat. The simple fact is that the GOP at least since McCarthy and Nixon, have been such foaming at the mouth ideologues that they have been incapable of facing the cold hard facts (that they have been on the wrong side of history ever since Lincoln and that it is getting increasingly more difficult for sentient humans of any political stripe to tolerate their nonsense).
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closeupready Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #66
69. LOL, yeah, bunch of idiots masturbating to their own bullshit spin.
:rofl:
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 03:43 PM
Response to Original message
67. They should be called the "no nose" party...
because they continually seem to cut off their own.
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blackspade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 03:44 PM
Response to Original message
68. These folks are totally clueless.
Talk about not living up to your own rules.
Especially when they are based on a false premise to begin with, see rule #1.
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GETPLANING Donating Member (370 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 03:51 PM
Response to Original message
70.  Ideology must never trump truthfulness?
As in "And abortion is 90% of what Planned Parenthood does?"

Christ, these people are stupid.
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mistertrickster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 03:57 PM
Response to Original message
71. As a self-proclaimed radical leftist, let me say that there aren't many of us in the halls of power.
Nt
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HughBeaumont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 07:51 AM
Response to Reply #71
93. Exactly ONE, and he's not what I would call "radical" by any stretch.
These people wouldn't know "Teh Radicul Left" if they were driving their beat up F-150s at Norwalk Raceway.
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mistertrickster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #93
95. Yup, Bernie Sanders . . . thank God for him. nt
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hifiguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 03:59 PM
Response to Original message
72. Wow is right
This reads like it came from the playbook of Doktor Josef Goebbels and his boss, the corporal with the Chaplin moustache. These are some goddamn scary people.
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Snoutport Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 04:11 PM
Response to Original message
73. POST THIS LINK AND THEIR RULES ON YOUR FACEBOOK!!!!
I made sure my friends saw this...even the right leaning ones. I figure you CAN judge a person by the company they keep and if you vote Republican...these are your peers.
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 04:33 PM
Response to Original message
77. Uncut/TeaBaggers
I'm sorry... I just couldn't get past this thought.

Ok, I lied. I went just a tad farther... and stumbled all over that "truthfulness" stuff. To TeaBaggers, truth is subjective.
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TheKentuckian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 04:54 PM
Response to Original message
79. As predicted the fruits of compromise, assimilation, and keeping the powder dry
has forced the Republicans further right and has even further radicalized them.

Centrism has mad them nuts and more hateful. The Third Way is a lie of epic proportions, above is the fruit of that movement, that their own positions are now "radical leftists".

Don't say you weren't warned.
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RedCloud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 05:17 PM
Response to Original message
82. Sorry, but this is not dumbed down nearly enough for them!
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 10:22 PM
Response to Original message
86. kick
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StarsInHerHair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 10:43 PM
Response to Original message
88. wow, HUGE amount of PROJECTION!!!
I like #9 FOR THE HYPOCRITICAL RIGHT!

#10 shows WHY we should NEVER use the fake term abortion clinic...........Strong Medicine anyone? a series on the Lifetime Network? Anyone? Women's Health Clinics do FAR more for women than merely birth control..........
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Overseas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 07:39 AM
Response to Original message
90. Republicans always accuse others of what they are doing themselves.
And that's why we have been so disturbed by our party trying to compromise with them.

Number 10 is really sad-- even mocking compassion.

We knew the modern GOP was nothing like the one that made a few compromises with Democrats in the past.

And yet, instead of insisting they see the true plight of our people being evicted from their homes after the Bush Crash and pushing Medicare for All with full Democratic conviction and compassion, we put aside true suffering in order to compromise with them.

Medicare for All and millions of infrastructure jobs with our Democratic mandate would have done so much more for our party than the whole series of compromises.

Unless this current exposure of Republican cruelty really does the trick of cutting through their lies.
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lunatica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 07:44 AM
Response to Original message
91. They hate therefore they are
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