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Did you know that even if he wanted to, Obama can't release his birth certificate?

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CatWoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 03:18 PM
Original message
Did you know that even if he wanted to, Obama can't release his birth certificate?
What the would-be sleuths won't find is Obama's "long-form birth certificate," a confidential one-page document containing his original birth records kept on file in the first floor of the Department of Health.

Those original birth records typically include additional birth details, such as the hospital and delivering doctor, said Dr. Chiyome Fukino, the state's former health director who twice looked at and publicly confirmed Obama's original long-form birth records.

But those documents are state government property that can't be released to anyone, even the president himself, said Joshua Wisch, special assistant to the state attorney general. Obama would be able to inspect his birth records if he visited the Health Department in person, but original records of live birth are never released, he said.


http://www.ajc.com/news/nation-world/in-hawaii-accessin...



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murielm99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 03:21 PM
Response to Original message
1. I have my original birth certificate,
with the little footprints and everything. They gave it to my mother, and she gave it to me.

I have obtained short form copies of my birth certificate when I have needed them.
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Electric Monk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Hawaii?
nt
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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #3
20. I have a certified copy of my long form from Hawaii.
I don't think they certify the long form anymore but I do think you can go to the Department of Health and get a copy made. You can certainly view your own long form and you can authorize verification of the long form.
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Mister Ed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #20
36. When did you get it? Can you get another one now? That would shed a lot of light on the matter.
Could you get in touch with the state and ask for a new copy of the long-form birth certificate? If they give you one, then we'll know it's possible. If they don't, and offer you a document like Obama's Certificate of Live Birth instead, then we'll know that's what Hawaii does nowadays.

Over on the birther side, I would think the very first thing they would do would be to have a birther born in Hawaii in the early 1960's walk up to the registrar and request a certified copy of his or her long-form birth certificate. Then the birthers could say, "See? Here it is. It's easy to get, and here's what it looks like".

The fact that the birthers have not done this speaks volumes to me.
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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #36
39. My parents got mine ages ago as that used to be the copy they gave out until they computerized.
I can see why the state doesn't want to have to certify the long form...too time or data intensive as it would require all long forms to be scanned or to be copied as requested. Scanning would certainly require more data storage than just spitting out the basic information.

I've read that I can see my original long form as per the DOH website. I already got someone really pissed off for pointing this out as doing our side no favors though. But I am actually curious enough that I might go by if I have free time. That bothers me a bit because I am upset at how our state workers were spending all their time with birthers. But if I pay a fee for copying my long form it is a donation to the state and really shouldn't I be entitled to see my own birth certificate? Isn't that MY data?

I think the idea of Obama having faked all this is a joke. But I'm also a bit outraged at the thought that we the people have no way to see our own info? That is kind of crazy to me.
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. You are seemingly contradicting what the Hawaii Dept. of Health employee states
Edited on Sun Apr-24-11 08:25 PM by hlthe2b
as copied from the OP here:
What the would-be sleuths won't find is Obama's "long-form birth certificate," a confidential one-page document containing his original birth records kept on file in the first floor of the Department of Health.

Those original birth records typically include additional birth details, such as the hospital and delivering doctor, said Dr. Chiyome Fukino, the state's former health director who twice looked at and publicly confirmed Obama's original long-form birth records.

But those documents are state government property that can't be released to anyone, even the president himself, said Joshua Wisch, special assistant to the state attorney general. Obama would be able to inspect his birth records if he visited the Health Department in person, but original records of live birth are never released, he said.


So, unless you are somehow with more clout than the President of the US, then I don't think you are going to be able to get them to copy your long form birth certificate. They will let you look at your own record and then, if you request, would get a certificate of live birth, just as Obama did, but not a copy of the long form :shrug:
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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #40
42. They don't give me my real one. But I am pretty sure you can get a copy made and that is what I am
Edited on Sun Apr-24-11 10:07 PM by dkf
Considering checking up on. They won't certify it for me though, like stamp it with the seal with an official signature. If I want a certified copy I only get the short form now. See the difference?

On edit: it looks like I am entitled to see my own records under the
Uniform Information Practices Act (UIPA)

The Uniform Information Practices Act (Modified), chapter 92F, Hawaii Revised Statutes ("UIPA"), is Hawaii's public records law. The Office of Information Practices ("OIP") was created by the Legislature in 1988 to administer the UIPA.

<92F-23> Access to personal record; initial procedure. Upon the request of an individual to gain access to the individual's personal record, an agency shall permit the individual to review the record and have a copy made within ten working days following the date of receipt of the request by the agency unless the personal record requested is exempted under section 92F-22. The ten-day period may be extended for an additional twenty working days if the agency provides to the individual, within the initial ten working days, a written explanation of unusual circumstances causing the delay.


http://www.state.hi.us/oip/uipa.html#92F13
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CatWoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. I was born in Virginia
and at one time had my original.

I lost it and had to send off for another, and what was mailed to me was the Certificate of Live Birth.

I suppose it varies by state, you think?
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PBS Poll-435 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. Yeppers
And the 10th Amendment to the Constitution has a remedy for those variations from State to State.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #6
15. Yes, every state has their own procedure and own form.
In Hawaii they have all the originals in bound books, and they don't take them out of the books to make copies -- they computerized their system a long time ago, and they print certification of live birth forms from their computerized records.
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murielm99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #6
21. I think that must be it.
What they do in Illinois, where I was born, might differ from other states. And the laws could have changed, too.

My kids were also born in Illinois. The birth certificates I have for them don't look anything like mine. They have a seal and stamp on them, but they don't appear to be originals. I have a feeling that the original birth certificates for my children are in the courthouse in the county where they are born, and they won't be given out to anyone. I could go back and look at what I have for them, but I think I may have given them to my kids. They are all in their late twenties and early thirties now.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #1
13. You don't really have "the" original. You have the first one that
your mother obtained for you.

Your state has the actual original somewhere (or should have). In Hawaii, they keep the originals in bound books together, and they don't take them out of the books to make copies -- they computerized all the paper records years ago.
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JoePhilly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #13
31. I have my "Original" ... I'm sure because the doctor's signiture
is in INK. My foot prints.

And ... my mother worked for that doctor.

It is the actual, original, document. The first thing anyone signed.

Having said that ... big deal.

Think about it ... if I have it ... how can PA, the state of my birth PROVE I was born there???

They have other records that are the legal and official documents.

Or what ... if I lose my "original" I'm not a citizen anymore?

Its silly.

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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #31
37. Unless your birth record is "certified", it is not considered by the state to be
valid. Only certified copies of birth records carry legal weight.

Yours could have been forged by just about anybody (not saying it was, BTW).
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JoePhilly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #37
41. It has a raised seal too.
But you hit the point exactly.

The idea that there is ONE document, one signed, inked, foot printed, document .... is still silly.

In addition to the original, I have about 5 certified copies. I've used those to get driver's licenses, a passports, so on.

The "search" for the "one true document" is insane.
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #41
43. A raised "seal" can be faked. Certified copies are legally certified
by a government agency to be "a true and correct copy" of original documents and are the gold standard in any and all courts in the land.

Birfers don't get this.
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Tx4obama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #1
29. The birth certificatet with the footprints is from the hospital, not the state
the hospital document with the footprints is not certified by the state and does not have a state seal - it is not valid for applying for a passport, drivers license, or running for president.

I also have the hospital document with footprints and even a little pink bow attached to the top - it is good for nothing other than looking at and then putting it back into a baby book to keep with other mementos.

The form that President Obama released - the certified one with the state seal - is the official one that is needed to 'legally' prove birth and citizenship.

I think the more that the republicans make hay out of this issue the worse they make themselves look :)



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Oceansaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 03:21 PM
Response to Original message
2. k & r...nt
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 03:24 PM
Response to Original message
4. That's correct. State law prevents it
since there's so much information on it (like the number of pregnancies vs live births his mother had) that should be kept confidential.

I could never run for office, it seems. The original of my birth certificate doesn't exist since the county courthouse burned down a few years later. The only thing that's out there is a photostat in the state archives, enough for them to issue a bare bones certificate so I can get a passport.
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PBS Poll-435 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. My vital records card was enough to get a passport
That and my driver's license and SSA card.


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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #4
17. Yes, you could run for office. Any photostat that would allow
you to get a passport, "bare bones" or not, would also be sufficient for any other legal or governmental purpose.
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #17
34. Not to birthers and they're trying to get laws passed accordingly.
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 03:25 PM
Response to Original message
5. What I don't understand is why the defense doesn't go to the point that
Edited on Sun Apr-24-11 03:27 PM by truedelphi
Jon Stewart made recently - that his mother was an American citizen, and since that fact has never been in contention, it is irrelevant where Obama was born.

He could have been born on the moon and he'd still be an American citizen.

The child of an American citizen is an American citizen.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #5
18. Because the teabaggers have an answer to that, too.
There's some law that says in those circumstances the American parent must have been in the country for either 2 years or 5 years since the age of 14. (Depending on how the law is read -- opinions vary.) Obama's mother wouldn't have met the 5 year requirement, if that is how the law is interpreted, when she gave birth to Obama.
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #5
22. But but but
he is black so it matters a whole lot - don't you get it? :sarcasm:
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RC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #5
28. What is getting lost here is that it DOES matter where you were born.
even though is doesn't effect your American citizenship. McCain was born in Panama of American parents. He would not be eligible for the presidency because he was not born in a state of the United States, but in a Panamanian hospital. Goldwater was born in the territory of Arizona, before it became a state and only because he lost, the question has not been settled.
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Karia Donating Member (145 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 03:26 PM
Response to Original message
8. I've never seen the original "long form" of my birth certificate
I've requested and received notarized photocopies of the short form several times over the years, for various purposes.
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napoleon_in_rags Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 03:27 PM
Response to Original message
10. I think I am just going to post the picture everywhere.
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Tx4obama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #10
30. And here is a DU link that has the embossed seal, certification, and birth announcements too
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devilgrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 03:31 PM
Response to Original message
11. Neither can Jesus.
:popcorn:
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CatWoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. ....
:hi:

:rofl:
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devilgrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. ...
:evilgrin: :hi:
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rocktivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 03:35 PM
Response to Original message
16. I still have my long form, but it's no longer valid
I had to get a copy of the modern one in order to renew my driver's license.

:headbang:
rocktivity
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. If it's not valid anymore, it's probably a hospital issued one.
They used to accept those in many instances, but no longer.
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Turbineguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 03:55 PM
Response to Original message
23. But....
Edited on Sun Apr-24-11 03:55 PM by Turbineguy
He' supposed to be one o'them soshalist dicktaters. Dey can do anything Dey want!
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Kalun D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 04:06 PM
Response to Original message
24. self delete
Edited on Sun Apr-24-11 04:10 PM by Kalun D
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HockeyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 04:18 PM
Response to Original message
25. My Certificate of Live Birth doesn't even have my parents names
but it does have an official NYC raised stamp. The originals for my Dad, Mom, and me were mistakenly given to the VA, and subsequently lost, when Dad applied for benefits. The only records that exist are in the Birth Index Books.

When I applied for a passport in 1969, they still questioned this "short form". I explained my story to them, and they apparently did a trace, which must have confirmed it. Was there a memo or something on file which confirmed my story? I don't know. They only told me they "cleared everything up" when I got my passport.

When I went to get a new passport in 2007, I did so with DREAD. Here we go again? No, but only because I already HAD an old passport. They still didn't like that CLB, but the old issued passport was enough to get a new one.

Anyway, in a city of 8 million people I certainly cannot be the only person, or the last, whose original BC was lost.

BTW, if anyone really wanted to confirm who my parents were (deceased now), they could do a census search. However, since the 1940 and beyond Census (as well as Birth Indexes) records are still classified, they would need special clearance (as in certified genealogist) to search them. Ditto for anyone trying to search Census records for Obama.

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izquierdista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 04:21 PM
Response to Original message
26. If he want to quiet the wabble,
Maybe he should make an announcement that he will wewease Wodewick Bwian.
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Blue-Jay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 04:28 PM
Response to Original message
27. It's smarter for Obama to sit back and laugh at the birthers.
It makes them look stupider than usual.

Birther: "Whar Birth Certificat, Obamma?"
Obama: "....."
Birther: "Whar? WHAAAAR?"
Obama: "....."
Birther: "WHAR CERTIFICAT?! YOUR HIDING SOMETHING!"
Obama: "Suck balls, you idiot."
Birther: "What did that BOY just say to me?"
Obama: "....."
Birther: ".....umm..."
Obama: "heh heh heh..."


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The Second Stone Donating Member (603 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 05:28 PM
Response to Original message
32. Virtually all government records belong to the government
and it is a felony to take them from the government. Most allow someone to purchase a copy and the clerks get to charge extra for certifying that it is a correct copy.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 05:36 PM
Response to Original message
33. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Raine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 06:16 PM
Response to Original message
35. I'm sure as President he could have ANYTHING he wanted released
the thing is why the hell should he have to. :mad: It's insulting to demand it of him when no other President has had to. x(
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underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 06:46 PM
Response to Original message
38. Bush never released his military records - so what
You may not know that if all you heard was "Kerry won't release his military records". Neither did.

McCain never released his birth certificate either. It may just have said that he was born in a private residence (not a US military facility) in Panama. Do you really think that a third generation US Navy Admiral would have his kind in some medical ward next to Bowswain Joey Kansas? No of course not. But we never saw those records nor were they ever mentioned.

Bush Kerry and McCain are people of position and releasing everything would set a precedent that people (and their kids) don't want to set.
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