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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 02:00 PM
Original message
When we disagree or argue, it's nothing personal
Edited on Sun Apr-24-11 02:02 PM by Taverner
Hell, you might be right and I wrong...

I am open to new ideas - that is what I think makes a Liberal a Liberal

However, sometimes when we discuss something on a thread, I hear responses that start with "How could you be so stupid to..." or "What are you a teabagger?" or "You're an idiot if you think..."

This usually derails the discussion, and at that point, it just becomes a shouting match

When's the last time the proportion of voice volume corresponded to its veracity?
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 02:03 PM
Response to Original message
1. Absolutely. Within limits.
I am not open to ideas that increase the power of big corporations, that decrease the power of the people, that privatize public services for profit, that violate civil liberties, that enrich the already wealthy and powerful, that limit or oppress those with fewer resources.

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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Granted I can't think of a single example to refute that point...
But I'm not sure if it would be correct to use it as a litmus test...

But who knows?

When I hear someone trying to convince me to kill a perfectly happy, healthy and friendly 2 year old, I usually use a litmus test in that case...
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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 02:05 PM
Response to Original message
2. After 24 hours I don't have a clue who I was arguing with or even about what
so I agree with you it's never personal and I kick and recommend your thread through the goal posts of life.
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 02:06 PM
Response to Original message
3. Hell no.
Edited on Sun Apr-24-11 02:09 PM by tabatha
If we disagree with something then we drop turds of childish, badly spelled, totally off topic nonsense comments all over a thread - and not even engage in a thoughtful discussion about the disagreements. Sorry for that sentence. There was a bad example of this last night.

Disagreeing thoughtfully can allow others to understand a position that may be different from yours.

On edit - and yes, anyone who responds to an argument with ad hominem comments indicates they have lost the argument already.
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HughBeaumont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 02:07 PM
Response to Original message
5. That depends, really.
Are we just talking a little moderate on, say, economic issues or flat out defense of free trade, globalization and job offshoring? There are people who are down with that on DU.

See, in that case . . . yes, I take that personally, because that's more or less supporting not only a truly Republican economic position, but also the destruction of one's livelihood and career. Not progressive by any stretch, and people like that don't belong on DU.
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Perhaps it's your opportunity to educate them...
I used to think Government was the problem. I used to think the 'invisible hand' would solve all problems.

Then I lived outside the US. I traveled the world. I educated myself. I traveled the country. I learned things.

Now I know better
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #5
12. You know - I take back what I said
There is no way you can teach any of these Ayn Rand acolytes anything other than the direction of the door...
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Scuba Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
6. Not only is DU a place to disagree and debate...
...it's also a place to learn to better debate, so one is better prepared when faced with those who disagree with many/most of us here.

Often a "you're a moron" comment is meant tongue-in-cheek but the sarcasm gets lost in the text format. Give the benefit of the doubt, once at least, and see if you think things are better.


I would like everyone to be more civil, and (mostly) try to lead by example, but I'm not ready to disregard someone's idea because they are unskilled at presenting it.
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 02:55 PM
Response to Original message
8. The really fascinating questions for both sides are - How much right:wrong : How much right:wrong?
And, at least hypothetically, that'd be where a LOT of power is too, IF anyone can ever get there.
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Or, more precisely: the respective probabilities thereof. nt
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frazzled Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 03:18 PM
Response to Original message
10. It doesn't feel that way to me a lot of the time
People can be downright hostile when you simply quote some facts in a thread.

Basically, I'm coming to understand that it's very difficult to change anybody's mind about anything, no matter how much you think you're being polite in offering some facts. And I'm not usually convinced by the counterarguments.
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 03:18 PM
Response to Original message
11. If nobody ever disagreed with anything I posted
there would be no opportunity for me to learn something new here.

Disagreement with a post isn't an attack against the person who made it unless the person disagreeing becomes disagreeable.

It's amazing how many people just can't seem to think in those terms.
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Shandris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 07:56 PM
Response to Original message
13. Having been on the recieving end of more than one...
...series of indirect direct accusations (similar to a 'near miss'), I'd like to believe that this topic is true. I CAN say I believe its ~usually~ true.

On the occasions where someone feels the urge to charge someone else with being a plant, or a shill, or what-have-you, they should be required to provide at least a ~little~ evidence unless it's just so god-awfully obvious that it can't be missed, like that thread that was here yesterday... Great. Now I can't remember what it was. Having a cold sucks. :)

OH! It was about the transgendered woman attacked in McDonald's, there was someone insulting her, making all SORTS of horrible comments about TG people in general, and so forth. Yeah...not needed there -- clearly and obviously, to every person posting, there was a problem.

Anyway, I guess this rambles a bit. Maybe its best summed up like this: I believe this is usually the intent, but sometimes we DO need to watch the edges of our swords. Words are weapons, and they cut, and 'growing a thick skin cuz this is the internet' isn't always the best answer.
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. "Are you really that stupid" gets a full on attack from me
And in person, it gets a left hook
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