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You've Got Jail, police using Iphone and Ipad tracking logs, and how they get them.

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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 08:10 AM
Original message
You've Got Jail, police using Iphone and Ipad tracking logs, and how they get them.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-31921_3-20056344-281.html?tag...



Law enforcement agencies have known since at least last year that an iPhone or iPad surreptitiously records its owner's approximate location, and have used that geolocation data to aid criminal investigations.

Apple has never publicized the undocumented feature buried deep within the software that operates iPhones and iPads, which became the topic of criticism this week after a researcher at a conference in Santa Clara, Calif., described in detail how it works. Apple had acknowledged to Congress last year only that "cell tower and Wi-Fi access point information" is "intermittently" collected and "transmitted to Apple" every 12 hours.

At least some phones running Google's Android OS also store location information, Swedish programer Magnus Eriksson told CNET today. And research by another security analyst suggests that "virtually all Android devices" send some of those coordinates back to Google.

Read more: http://news.cnet.com/8301-31921_3-20056344-281.html#ixz...
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Taitertots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 08:14 AM
Response to Original message
1. Companies are covertly tracking people...
How many people will stop giving them thousands of dollars?
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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 08:17 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Personally I see a huge lawsuit against Apple and Google in the offing. If it doesn't
manifest, then there is something terribly wrong with this country. Is what they are doing legal?? Constitutional?? Illegal search and seizure of personal information is how I see it... and exposing your personal information to those who know how to get it as well. If anyone needs to go to jail it is the group that created these features in the first place.
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Skidmore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 08:24 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. From what I see in this nation, people are so in love with their doodads
that they will not put up a whimper.
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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 08:30 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Where is the ACLU? Giving phones this ability for no good reason is criminal, check
out my new phone, ain't she a beaut?



Or I might choose to put in more lines for conference calls.

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FLPanhandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 08:20 AM
Response to Original message
3. Every cell phone has it's location data tracked and stored by the carriers
The cell carriers even sell this data to other companies besides Apple & Google.

Don't go thinking because you don't have an iPhone or an Android or another smartphone your location data isn't being stored. The oldest simplest cell phone out there is tracked.

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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 08:24 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. There is a huge difference between knowing which cell tower you were near
and knowing exactly where you are using cell towers, wifi and satellite.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-31921_3-20056344-281.html?tag...
The U.K-based company Forensic Telecommunications Services advertises its iXAM product as able to "extract GPS location fixes" from an iPhone 3GS including "latitude, longitude, altitude and time." Its literature boasts: "These are confirmed fixes--they prove that the device was definitely in that location at that time." Another mobile forensics company, Cellebrite, brags that its products can pluck out geographical locations derived from both "Wi-Fi and cell tower" signals, and a third lists Android devices as able to yield "historical location data" too.

Read more: http://news.cnet.com/8301-31921_3-20056344-281.html#ixz...
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FLPanhandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 08:32 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. The carriers know more than what cell tower you are near
Based on the signal and multiple cell towers, they use triangulation routines to get a very close position. The iPhone data stored in the consolidated.db file is actually not GPS based, but based on the same triangulation routines the carriers use.

There are some good tech articles (not standard news articles) on this. Based on your cities cell coverage the location accuracy can vary as much as 5 kilometers. In a city with lots of coverage, it's much more accurate.

However, for the iPhone anyway, it's the same data as the carrier stores.
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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 08:34 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. The article states that your elevation can be obtained, try that with cell
towers. I understand triangulation, and I don't see how, without GPS you are going to get elevation values.

The U.K-based company Forensic Telecommunications Services advertises its iXAM product as able to "extract GPS location fixes" from an iPhone 3GS including "latitude, longitude, altitude and time." Its literature boasts: "These are confirmed fixes--they prove that the device was definitely in that location at that time." Another mobile forensics company, Cellebrite, brags that its products can pluck out geographical locations derived from both "Wi-Fi and cell tower" signals, and a third lists Android devices as able to yield "historical location data" too.

Read more: http://news.cnet.com/8301-31921_3-20056344-281.html#ixz...
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FLPanhandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 08:39 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. It's still triangulation
It stores it as latitude-longitude coordinates along with a timestamp. The coordinates aren't always exact, but they are pretty detailed. There can be tens of thousands of data points in this file, and it appears the collection started with iOS 4, so there's typically around a year's worth of information at this point.

According to the research paper that started this whole thing "The location is determined by cell-tower triangulation, and the timing of the recording is erratic, with a widely varying frequency of updates that may be triggered by traveling between cells or activity on the phone itself."
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FLPanhandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 08:41 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. Here's a good summary article explaining things.
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/2011/04/android-pho...

"On Wednesday, security researchers Alasdair Allan and Pete Warden revealed their findings that 3G-capable iOS devices keep a database of location data based on cell tower triangulation and WiFi basestation proximity in a file called "consolidated.db." The iPhone, as well as 3G-equipped iPads, generate this cache even if you don't explicitly use location-based services. This data is also backed up to your computer every time it is synced with iTunes. Warden wrote an application which can find, parse, and map the location data on a user's computer if the iOS device backups are not optionally encrypted."
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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 08:46 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. Syncs with Itunes??? WTF, George Orwell is laughing at us all. n/t
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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 09:01 AM
Response to Reply #12
16. From your article, now I guess we need to hire the hacker community to create
apps that provide 128 bit or higher encryption for everything on our phones. Let the contest begin.

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/2011/04/android-pho...
After this week's disturbing revelation that iPhones and 3G iPads keep a log of location data based on cell tower and WiFi base station triangulation, developer Magnus Eriksson set out to demonstrate that Android smartphones store the exact same type of data for its location services. While the data is harder to access for the average user, it's as trivial to access for a knowledgeable hacker or forensics expert.
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FLPanhandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 09:11 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. That just protects the data stored on your personal device from being read.
Even if you manage to do that, the cellular service providers have software in the cell towers that stores the same data in the computer data warehouse. The cell companies even sell that information to third parties.

Protect your own copy of it all you want, but even the most primitive cell phone has it's location tracked and stored off site.

If anyone is concerned about this, then they shouldn't use a cell phone at all until privacy laws are updated.

George Orwell never dreamed about cell phones.
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petronius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #8
23. It would work the same way as GPS, right? If the cell-tower data provides an
estimated range to 4 or more towers, than a 3D position estimate would be possible. I doubt the precision would be as good, but the applications being described seem to be the sort of thing that requires accuracy within 10s of meters rather than sub-meter.

On the other hand, they could be getting a 2D position, and reading elevation from a digital elevation model (assuming the phone is on the ground)...
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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. It says in the article that it extracts GPS locations... I don't see why they wouldn't
use it, its just as easy to take, and infinitely more accurate. Here, read this again.

The U.K-based company Forensic Telecommunications Services advertises its iXAM product as able to "extract GPS location fixes" from an iPhone 3GS including "latitude, longitude, altitude and time." Its literature boasts: "These are confirmed fixes--they prove that the device was definitely in that location at that time." Another mobile forensics company, Cellebrite, brags that its products can pluck out geographical locations derived from both "Wi-Fi and cell tower" signals, and a third lists Android devices as able to yield "historical location data" too.
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petronius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. I took that as a loose (incorrect) use of the term "GPS" - I think they're saying that they
are getting GPS-comparable 3D positions, without using the satellite data. If they are capable of accessing the GPS receiver, I'd agree that would be preferable...
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 08:35 AM
Response to Original message
9. Spy Different. n/t
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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 08:39 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. I like your sig line btw. I'm sure the pugs do too. n/t
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #10
22. We see it as a warning, whereas the goopers see it as a strategy. n/t
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Historic NY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 08:49 AM
Response to Original message
14. Yeah who would have thought electronic gizmos tracking you..........
Edited on Sun Apr-24-11 08:51 AM by Historic NY
this is just another case of the consumer not listening & buying. Remember that switch in analog to digital...you just had to have it. Oh dare I say GPS, humm...if its way up in the sky nah no way....way. E-Z pass you give them more than just a toll or pay for you fast food....imagine just whizzing through the drive thru. Then there are the twitter idiots not satisfied with texting every moment of their lives...they even include location data. This goes on and on...companies deliver the gotta have it gizmo & now your surprised that the police are also using that information. Where the hell have you been, under a rock? The demmand for more & more digital phones & devices is making it oh so easy....you know all those cell phone towers creeping up on the landscape well these is one about every 5 miles. you car can track you, you chipped dog, your cell phone, your computer, your ez-pass, your gps, even a US passport is chipped, and an entire host of items.
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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 08:54 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. And yet another excellent sig line, thanks for that. n/t
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LiberalFighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 09:47 AM
Response to Original message
18. Wasn't there an episode of "The Good Wife"
where the new partner gives everyone an iPad? And two issues came up with someone able to know emails and also that employees were at different locations?
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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. Missed it but would not be surprised at all. n/t
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nolabels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 10:42 AM
Response to Original message
20. Even though i don't have a working cel phone
They still would have a terribly boring time with me. From work to home and once in while a occasional trip to the grocery store, what a life :banghead:
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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. Here read a funny supplement review and be unbored.
This was one of the ingredients in Dr. Perricone's Pigment Corrective Dietary supplement.Maybe it did do something but I didn't feel or see any changes. But it gets two stars because it didn't kill me.
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cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. LOL that IS funny.......
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hobbit709 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 01:15 PM
Response to Original message
25. Another reason not to buy an overpriced iPOS.
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