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Is Gold A Good Buy At $1,500 An Ounce?

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No DUplicitous DUpe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 03:18 PM
Original message
Is Gold A Good Buy At $1,500 An Ounce?
Is Gold A Good Buy At $1,500 An Ounce?*
(posted with permission from: http://sane-ramblings.blogspot.com/2011/04/is-1500-ounce-for-gold-good-buy.html)
*This column addresses the lack of confidence investors have in the US dollar and does not suggest anyone should or should not invest in Gold.


Assuming you can afford it, is U.S. $1,500 an ounce for gold a good buy? It depends upon how you view the future of the U.S. dollar. Gold may be overpriced at this level or eventually an excellent investment at $3,000 an ounce or more.

The U.S. government is under enormous pressure to raise it's debt ceiling yet again because it is racking up massive deficits with no end in sight. Now Standard & Poor's, one of the world's most respected ratings agencies has warned the U.S. government it may lose its top credit rating if it doesn't get its finances in order.

But to get those finances in order will require slashing expenses including Medicare and Medicaid but especially slashing its military costs, which it is loath to do for the military industrial complex is a huge job provider and it has also bought and paid for politicians of both parties to keep the money flowing in.

In addition it would have to end its 3 wars, close many of its 1,000 global military bases and cut back its Homeland Security agency, which is mushrooming in size and also consolidate 16 spy agencies. It will also have to raise taxes sharply, for the interest cost on the $14.3 trillion deficit alone runs into the hundreds of billions of dollars each year and it too is rapidly growing.

To understand what is happening, it helps to put the price of gold in perspective. In January 1980, as a result of 1979's oil "shortage" and skyrocketing gas prices, the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, Iran seizing U.S. hostages and of U.S. high inflation, gold hit a record U.S. $850 an ounce as investors fled to something they viewed as safer than the U.S. dollar. Subsequently, the U.S. economy strengthened, investor confidence returned and the price of gold dropped.

Right after the horrific events of 9/11, in 2001, gold reached $280 an ounce, up about $6. It's price kept fluctuating in the few hundred dollar an ounce range until the global financial meltdown in 2008, when its price jumped to over $800 and in 2009, to over $900 and while it keeps fluctuating, it has generally been rising since.

Today, there are well founded fears for the U.S. government's financial viability and that of the Euro Zone as well, while inflation jumps sharply in China and Japan struggles to recover from the disasters that engulfed it. And the U.S. dollar, long considered "good as gold" is now only as good as the confidence investors have in it. By their gold investments they are giving it a vote of no confidence.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 03:21 PM
Response to Original message
1. Only if you really want it.
:hi:
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upi402 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 03:21 PM
Response to Original message
2. I was literally laughed at @ $745
I bought more at $850.

If we weren't planning on leaving the country I'd buy more now FWIW.
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FSogol Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 03:24 PM
Response to Original message
3. Sure, follow Glen Beck's advice and buy a product when the price is at an all time high.
:crazy:
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EOTE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #3
11. The price was at an all time high last year.
And most likely the years before that as well. It's been steadily on the increase since 2000. Many people who bought it at an "all time high" are doing very well now. That said, I have no idea whether the appreciation of gold is going to continue.
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No DUplicitous DUpe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #3
15. I don't believe the author gave any "Buy Gold!"advice in this column...
..Although I do remember a column by this author suggesting adding gold to your savings, when it was around $1,000. I believe that was an all time high at the time.

Here is that column: How To Protect Yourself As The Economy Sinks 4/23/09
http://sane-ramblings.blogspot.com/2009/04/how-to-protect-yourself-as-economy_23.html

<snip>
"Forth, some sophisticated investors are already buying gold as a hedge against the dollar collapsing. You too may want to buy U.S. Gold Eagles or other one ounce or smaller gold coins."
<snip>
:hi:
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NorthCarolina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #3
24. GOLDLINE, because after the rapture
God won't accept American Express.
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 03:24 PM
Response to Original message
4. I'd wait a while, and buy closer to the peak price.
That's what real, hard-core investors do. Get in at the top, if you can. :rofl:
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krabigirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. lol
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. wink...
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krabigirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 03:24 PM
Response to Original message
5. no.
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HopeHoops Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 03:25 PM
Response to Original message
7. This is a joke, right?
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No DUplicitous DUpe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #7
16. Did you read the column, or just the title?
My guess is the latter.
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HopeHoops Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-22-11 06:23 AM
Response to Reply #16
81. Oh, definitely the latter, but that's beside the point. Unless you're day trading, bad buy.
Buy to hold was a great idea when it was $300/oz (granted, that was 25 or so years ago), but it is at an artificially inflated price now and it will take a plunge.

As for not reading the article, that's true. I've had a nasty sinus and upper respiratory infection for the past few days and can barely focus on the comics. Not much in the way of text is registering. Sorry.

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Fire Walk With Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 03:27 PM
Response to Original message
9. You can be -someone- is making money off of gold trading.
A sharp commentator mentioned gold as a possible investment during a televised debate with Obama and one other, I forget whom. This seemed to cause them both to recoil, as if a secret were being let out.

And it certainly has risen since then, know what I mean?
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gratuitous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 03:28 PM
Response to Original message
10. It's a good by to fifteen hundred bucks
Or a substantial portion thereof. If the aftermath wasn't so amusing, the depressing sameness of the puffery would just be so boring. But you know there's folks avidly gobbling up every word, figuring out how they can get more cash so they can get in deeper. Then, when it all comes down again, they look at what their thousands and thousands of dollars bought, figure it's worth hundreds and hundreds, and get all pissed off at a system that suckered them again.
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No DUplicitous DUpe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #10
19. Do you mean "Good Bye" or "Good Buy"? you said "good by"...
Hello?
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earthside Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 03:30 PM
Response to Original message
12. There's alway silver.
I bought a bunch of silver bullion and 'junk' silver coins when Bush/Cheney took office (I saw all this coming).

I paid about five dollars an ounce --- it is now trading at $46 an ounce! My initial investment is now worth over nine times as much. That is a better return than gold over the same period.

And, I think there is still plenty of up side to silver (and gold) as long as the Repuglicans, the Teabaggers and the Trump-ettes keep threatening the credit worthiness of U.S. Treasury instruments.
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no_hypocrisy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 03:31 PM
Response to Original message
13. Only if it goes up ( a lot more).
Edited on Thu Apr-21-11 03:33 PM by no_hypocrisy
If you buy at $1500, and you sell at $1500, you lose money b/c of 1) inflation of the value of money, and 2) you'll pay a fee to the guy who buys it at the gold coin shop (a small percentage).

If you sell at a more than $1500, you'll lose more money b/c in addition to the two previous ways your profit is lessened, NOW you have to pay capital gains to the IRS for the profit you made selling your gold. If you're lucky, you will just break even for your original investment. To make a real profit at buying and selling gold, your selling price would have to be more than a little higher than the price you paid for it.
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 03:33 PM
Response to Original message
14. Pretty soon it'll be cheaper than gas.
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Ron Green Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 03:55 PM
Response to Original message
17. The whole time I was growing up, gold was always $35 an ounce.
That's just what it always was.

When did it get so crazy?
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Art_from_Ark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #17
37. It started getting crazy around 1971
when Nixon abolished the last vestiges of the gold standard, the US removed the last vestiges of precious metals from circulating coinage, and the official US price of gold was raised to $38.00/ounce. The official US price was raised to $42.22 a little after that, and then the gold market was completely liberalized on December 31, 1974.

Your name wouldn't be Rip Van Winkle by any chance, would it?
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n2doc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 03:58 PM
Response to Original message
18. no n/t
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Andy823 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 05:08 PM
Response to Original message
20. It's the next bursting "bubble"!
First if was oil and housing, now it's gold. As soon as the big boys with the money find a new "bubble" the gold bubble will burst just like the other two did. When that happens those who know what they are doing and got in when it was really cheap will win big time, others will lose their shirts! When the american public figures out that all the gloom an doom is simply hype, the bubble will burst!
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quaker bill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Actually, I think it will be silver first
Edited on Thu Apr-21-11 05:52 PM by quaker bill
The entire price from $16 to now $46 has been driven by speculative demand. There is no supply shortage, in fact supplies are increasing and industrial use of the metal has fallen due to advent and popularity of digital photography. The technical charts look quite bad and a significant demand of late has been buy back of "short" positions at a significant loss. I would bet on the low to mid 20s, perhaps lower before the end of summer.

Gold will break below 1000 before the end of the year. These prices are not sustainable.

Once the crest is reached the downward slope will be quite steep for both. There are alot of people who were flipping real estate a few years back now betting their lunch money in the metals market. They are about to get hosed. The probl;em is that folks in this position have no stomach for losses and will bail on the market at the first sign of trouble. Prices will tank just like CDOs did in 2008.
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ThomWV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. I find it amazing that no one is calling these idiotic gold prices a Bubble - which is all it is
And like every other bubble, it will pop.
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Fool Count Donating Member (878 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. It is not a bubble at all and there is no possible way in the
World that it will pop. The prices are far from "idiotic". In fact, gold is only appreciating
in respect to US dollar. And it is not only gold that is doing it, pretty much everything is
appreciating in respect to USD as a result of the Fed's loose monetary policy (talk about
idiotic) to cover unsustainable deficits. That doesn't mean that one should buy gold to protect
his wealth best, there are better investments yet. For instance, all my holdings are in Australian
and Canadian dollar denominated assets and if expressed in AUD gold is actually going down now.
The whole world is about to start dumping the debased US currency as a medium of trade and savings
on a massive scale. All those trillions of paper are coming back to the only place in the world where
they will still be worth anything - the USA. So get ready to be amazed at how much less of everything
your USD will be buying very soon. Gold may very well replace USD as a medium of international trade,
in which case it will be an awesome investment indeed. Even if it doesn't, it is still much better
to have gold than to hold USD and lose most of your value in a bout of inflation. There will be no
more bubbles in any USD denominated assets. USD itself (or more precisely the US treasury bonds) is
the last bubble and that one is about to pop very loudly.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #25
30. LOL, that's exactly the RW BS being used to inflate this bubble.
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Art_from_Ark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #30
40. Gold is a world market
It's not the Glenn Beck viewers or TV hucksters who are making this market-- it is a combination of things that have been in the works since at least the 1960s, which is when I started paying attention to gold. There are people of all political persuasions who have been buying gold-- not just right-wingers-- and not just Americans.
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roamer65 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #40
46. Hey Art...here's a good gauge of inflation...
Edited on Thu Apr-21-11 09:14 PM by roamer65
I am going to trade 40% silver I bought about 10 years ago for about $600-$700...guess what value its gonna trade at?

$3900.

It even blew my socks off.
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Art_from_Ark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 09:36 PM
Response to Reply #46
47. That's a darn good return!
Wow, that's amazing, especially considering how up to now 40% has been the wallflower at the dance.
I've been thinking of trading in some of my 90% that I got back in 1990 for what seems like peanuts now. Right now, I'm looking at a roll of BU 90% Roosevelt dimes that still has the old price tag on it-- $17.
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roamer65 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #47
48. 90% prices are thru the roof.
Been seeing 90% transactions lately and I am shocked by how little one gets for their fiat dollars now.

I am going to unload some silver and add 2-3 nice Saints to the collection tomorrow. MS-64 Saints are only $200-$300 above spot right now.
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Art_from_Ark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #48
51. Do you know what the buy and sell prices of 90% are now?
Here in Japan there doesn't seem to be much interest in the silver coins. I might be able to pick up some 90% at the next coin show if the price is right.
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roamer65 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #51
55. I don't know the ratio, but a $1000 face bag is 715 oz of silver.
Edited on Thu Apr-21-11 10:24 PM by roamer65
...so it goes for right around $33,200

..so $1 face is worth right around $33.20
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Art_from_Ark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #55
57. $33,200-- that's just amazing.
And to think I passed up a chance to buy a bag at 1/10 that back in the 90s.

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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #51
59. The one in my signature..
currently trades above 32x face value on ebay, even circulated.

Not buying or selling silver at the moment, bought a lot at the end of last year and again in March. :)

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Art_from_Ark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #59
61. 32X face
So the silver halves that I was paying $1.80 for back in 1990 are now selling for $16?
As Jed Clampett would say, "Whew, doggie!"
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roamer65 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #61
62. Yup. You got it.
...but there's no inflation...per Helicopter Ben...lol.
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roamer65 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #59
63. 1964 Kennedy half...great coin.
You should get a 1964 proof set. Absolutely beautiful in proof.
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Art_from_Ark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 11:43 PM
Response to Reply #63
72. Speaking of proof 1964 Kennedy halves
I need to check mine for the "accented hair" variety
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roamer65 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-22-11 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #72
87. You should.
They are worth a few bucks extra.
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Po_d Mainiac Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-22-11 04:26 AM
Response to Reply #40
76. You have patience
At this point people, either got it or they never will.

You notice the posters that trashed us when Ag was in the $17USD range have been very quiet?
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Art_from_Ark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-22-11 06:26 AM
Response to Reply #76
82. Speaking of silver
I guess you did pretty well on your recent silver purchase. To tell you the truth, I never thought it would get this high, at least so fast. And even the old '60s proof coins are being considered just so much bullion right now. Now might be a time to fill some spaces with some higher quality stuff that is selling for scrap.
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EstimatedProphet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 09:06 PM
Response to Reply #25
44. And Obama's a Muslin too!
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No DUplicitous DUpe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 10:09 PM
Response to Reply #25
50. And you call yourself a Fool, Count?
Not in my eyes. Excellent post!
Thank you.
:hi:
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Fool Count Donating Member (878 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 06:24 PM
Response to Original message
23. If the alternative for you is holding the US paper currency,
then gold is a good buy at $1500 and will still be a good buy at $2000. Pretty much anything you
can convert your dollars into is a good buy now, considering the inflation/dollar depreciation
that is ahead. Everything except for the US based real estate that is.
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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #23
36. Then you better hope and pray that the Federal government doesn't raise taxes.
Your gold position would get crushed.
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Art_from_Ark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #36
41. What do you mean by that?
How would the Feds raising taxes crush gold positions?
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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #41
64. The government taxes dollars out of existence.
If they were to raise taxes (specifically on the wealthy, in this case), that would mean fewer dollars available to trade in speculative assets. As long as the rich continue to successfully shift their tax burden onto the poor, there will be a glut of dollars at the top seeking a hedge against the devaluation trends caused by this glut of dollars. Quantitative easing has only exacerbated this phenomenon.

I don't own gold, but I have defended you against the paperbugs in the past because I do see the value in owning gold, even now. I don't think that the government will raise taxes any time soon, but people who complain about the danger of inflation or hyperinflation from "money printing" by the Fed or excessive government spending should understand the other side of that equation. The government does have the ability to create deflation and strengthen the dollar if they want to, as unlikely as it is that they will ever choose to do so.
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Jack Sprat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #64
65. What do you think about short term interest rates?
It looks as if the Fed is going to keep interest rates low while a long protracted recovery takes place. Years of low interest rates?
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Art_from_Ark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #64
67. Thanks for the clarification
I can see your point.
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Fool Count Donating Member (878 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-22-11 01:38 AM
Response to Reply #36
74. Raising taxes? In the US? Gimme a break.
I don't actually hold gold (except for few Barrick shares and one precious metals mutual fund). As I said,
gold is better than USD (or any other US government paper), but so is pretty much everything else. My AUD
savings account yields me 6% plus all the appreciation against the USD, which was like 40% over the last
year. If I put that money into gold I would be negative on the year in AUD. So my advice is not to buy
gold, but rather to get rid of USD any way you can. Gold is just one possibility. Foreign bond or equity funds
is another. Mineral resources (oil in particular) is yet another. Ultimately, even on small scale, non-perishable
consumables (yes, including foodstuffs, detergent, etc.) is not a bad idea at all. Trust me, the less actual
dollars you have left in your bank account or under your mattress the better of you will be. You can thank me later.
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Po_d Mainiac Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-22-11 04:34 AM
Response to Reply #23
77. PM's can be converted into any currency.,
Not just US Fed issued confetti.
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NuttyFluffers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 07:10 PM
Response to Original message
26. well, it's relation is to global stability. do you see the world becoming more stable soon?
those who have money to stash buy gold. those who have less to stash buy cheaper precious metals and storable goods. those who have even less than that buy canned and dried goods and ammunition.

a new "millennial scare" is coming -- actually more than one, if i remember correctly -- and that's just the crazy vote talking. throw in economic crises not improving and gov'ts around the world in massive transition, and, well... it certainly is not going to pop and go back down to $200 an ounce any time soon, is it?

might not be a good buy for those who are priced out of the market at this stage. but there's plenty of large investors just as scared, and things don't look so sunny in the future. so the smart guess, understanding herd psychology, would be what? hmm?
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Yavin4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 07:32 PM
Response to Original message
27. When You Buy Gold, Does That Mean That You Are Taking Physical Possession of it
Or, does it mean you are given some sort piece of paper saying that you own gold. If it's the latter, then your gold's value is only temporary. Because, it will never be worth it's true value.

Gold is only valuable if the world's economies completely collapse, and if that happens, your piece of paper saying that you own gold is worthless.
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Incitatus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 08:03 PM
Response to Reply #27
31. I think most the investment/speculation gold is just on paper for the 'owner'.
Edited on Thu Apr-21-11 08:06 PM by Incitatus
Which begs the question, who is monitoring the sellers to make sure that the gold your trading account or the piece of paper says you own really exists and is set aside and no one else will have a piece of paper saying that same gold is theirs? I wouldn't put it past some Wall Street firm to sell 50 billion in gold when they only have 2 billion to back it up. Who are we going to trust to make sure that doesn't happen, the SEC?

And if something like that is happening, there may be a very big pop when it comes to light.

I am just guessing here. I don't know the specifics on how it is traded. Perhaps someone here can enlighten me.
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Yavin4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. Let's Say That The Dollar Becomes Completely Worthless
Then all of the world's currencies will become completely worthless. At that point, we're living in Mel Gibson's Mad Max world.

Do people actually think in that world they're going to honor your piece of paper saying that you own gold?
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Incitatus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. Of, course not.
I don't know how much gold would be worth in that situation either. I would rather have survivalist skills, resources and plenty of rations like ammo, medical supplies, etc, etc.
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Yavin4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. Which Is My Point
Gold's value is only for short term speculation purposes. It will never be a default currency.
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Fool Count Donating Member (878 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-22-11 02:09 AM
Response to Reply #32
75. Why would all the world's currencies become completely
worthless? What other central bank has a policy of debasing its own currency? Zimbabwean maybe, but
no other country immediately comes to mind. Certainly not Swiss or Australian or Japanese or Chinese
or Russian. Otherwise, dollar would not be depreciating in respect to other currencies as it does now.
So no need to scare us with Mad Max visions. US currency and US economy are now perfectly capable of
sinking on their own with the rest of the world booming economically. US is not the "central nation"
anymore, it is still a large but peripheral economy on the vane. So even a better advice than to buy
gold or to get out of USD would be to get the hell out of the USA, if you can. I know I did.
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brooklynite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 07:36 PM
Response to Original message
28. Here's the risk...
When I buy stock, I do so because I know something about the company and about the practical demand for its products. The demand for gold AS A PRODUCT does not change day to day; it's value is based on the demand for it by people who see it as a default currency because it's ALWAYS been seen as a default currency. Those people (at least in the United States), include the RW kooks who believe in the coming demise of the nation, or its currency, and whose fixation can bias the pricing in the market.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 07:51 PM
Response to Original message
29. It's a sucker's market now.
This is the point when Joe Shmoe idiot starts buying gold while the big-time investors plan their escape before the bubble bursts, leaving Joe Shmoe with jack.
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Art_from_Ark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 09:05 PM
Response to Reply #29
43. At $1500 an ounce, I doubt if Joe Schmoe is buying much gold
Edited on Thu Apr-21-11 09:06 PM by Art_from_Ark
In this economy, very few people can afford that. If anything, Joe Schmoe would probably be buying silver, since it is cheaper and still considered a precious metal. And that is one of the reasons why silver has skyrocketed during the past year.
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roamer65 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 08:14 PM
Response to Original message
35. Yes.
In inflation terms, it is still undervalued.

Our government (and others) simply CANNOT turn off the printing presses. They have to keep interest rates very low, otherwise the interest payments on their debt will eat them alive. Get ready for QE3, QE4, QE5, etc, etc...
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Art_from_Ark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 08:47 PM
Response to Original message
38. Gold showed a mostly upward trend from 2002 until early 2008
when it hit $1000/ounce. Then it fell back for most of the rest of the year, even dipping below the $800 level for a while. It got back to the $1000 level early in 2009, fell back again, and didn't get back to the $1000 level until later in the year. Since then, its price has been mostly on the upswing, with a notable exception of a sharp drop of $100 or so in late 2009 to early 2010.

http://goldprice.org/gold-price-history.html#10_year_gold_price
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Elwood P Dowd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 08:53 PM
Response to Original message
39. In March I sold some gold and silver coins on eBay.
Got $40.00 each for the one ounce Silver Eagles (over a hundred of them) and $1450.00 each for the one ounce Gold Liberty coins (1890's numismatic). Could have made an extra thousand bucks by keeping them another month. Have a few Gold Liberty coins left, so I'm going the hang on them a few more days or weeks and see what happens. These coins were purchased back in the 1990s when the Silver Eagles were going for less than $7.00 and the Gold Liberty was going for under $400.00. They are about the only thing I own that's worth anything today.
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KurtNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 09:01 PM
Response to Original message
42. you can't eat gold, you can't live in it -- if the world really goes to hell
having gold won't be so great. They are pushing gold so hard right now that I just get that feeling that gold is the latest wall st hustle. On the other hand significant inflation seems a sure bet for the next year.

The price of food won't be going down any time soon.
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No DUplicitous DUpe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-23-11 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #42
91. The author responds to your comments...
Regarding Post No. 42, he is right, “you can’t eat gold, you can’t live in it – if the world really goes to hell.” But financial collapses have happened throughout history and gold is the one store of value mankind has always gone to. What is happening to the U.S. isn’t new, but it’s going to be traumatic for us, as it has been for so many others over the ages. History tells us gold will buy food and shelter as people lose confidence in their currency.

The pace of the U.S. dollar decline, which started during the Nixon Administration, began in earnest a decade ago as then Fed Chairman Alan Greenspan lowered interest rates sharply to offset the Dotcom bust. The result of all that cheap money was the real estate boom.

When that went bust, current Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke lowered interest rates to near zero, the lowest in U.S. history. The result?

In the last six years the dollar has lost 40% of its value against a basket of all other major currencies. The dollar is just 5% from its all-time low hit in March, 2008 and that dates back to the dollar index kept since 1971. Meanwhile, people who have held gold in the last six years have watched the value of their holdings measured in dollars triple.

The U.S. government thought all this cheap money would boost our nation’s exports. But aside from military weaponry, heavy equipment such as earth movers and commercial aircraft, we don’t manufacture much anymore and our trade deficit has also mushroomed, crushing the dollar.


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cbdo2007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 09:10 PM
Response to Original message
45. Was it a good buy at $1,450? How about $1,400?? What about $1,350? Or $1,300?
Or $1,200? Or $800??

As long as it's been going up, people have been asking if it was a good buy and so far, nobody for the past 30 years has been wrong based on the price today. The major growth should taper off here in the next few years but will then become more stagnant. The big drop everyone is expecting probably won't happen for over a decade though.

There are much better returns though in the stock market, if you're looking for an investment strategy.
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No DUplicitous DUpe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #45
49. I believe the author feels that gold is a hedge...
..as opposed to an investment strategy for growth.
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Jack Sprat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #49
58. What does the author think about PM funds
as opposed to buying the physical metals? A PM fund that holds mining companies would not experience the big moves in accelerating prices but also probably would not experience the steep decline in a freefall. And you would have a much easier time selling your shares as opposed to trying to sell 50.00 silver that has devalued to 5.00 or 1500.00 ounces of gold that has slipped back to 400.00 an oz.
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thelordofhell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 10:13 PM
Response to Original message
52. No
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Jack Sprat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 10:18 PM
Response to Original message
53. It comes down to everyone's level of comfort
Whatever floats their boat. My question would be to anyone who thinks that physical gold or silver is something that would ensure survival in a world of desperation. I'm not passing judgment on survivalists holed up in remote places in Idaho or Utah. They very well might survive off the land with enough firepower to protect their precious metals hidden away. But everywhere in the rest of the civilized country, I can't see society holding together in such an end of time scenario forecasted by the survivalists. For the majority of us, we will just be another desperado without anything and trying to calm our neighbors into surviving as a community. Once such a cataclysm takes place, I would hope there are enough of us trying to use our brains instead of our guns to maintain some kind of order so we can all come through it together without mass hysteria and the breakdown of society. If that doesn't work, then I guess we'll all perish together too.

I am inclined to think a Precious Metals Mutual fund would be a better hedge against some grim catastrophe. If gold and silver went sky high, wouldn't it be as good to have shares in a fund where investments are made in the mining of precious metals if these precious metals become so valuable? That way, you wouldn't need to actually hold physical metals themselves or defend them with your life. It's just a question. I don't believe in dwelling on the worst scenarios imagineable and honestly I don't know what the future holds. I just hope the better part of humanity takes over in such a crisis. We have only one life on this earth and I hope we can maintain humor, civility and optimism until our ultimate demise into death.
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Art_from_Ark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #53
66. Precious metals mutual funds
Back around 1973 or so, I read an article in a coin magazine that said when investing in precious metals, one should always take physical delivery of the metals. Since that time, that has always been my philosophy about precious metals. Precious metals mutual funds can go belly-up or have some other sort of problem that would leave the little investor with little or nothing, and I, personally, wouldn't touch them with a 10-foot pole.

Mining stocks are iffy. You basically have your choice of junior companies that often don't have proven track records (so they are a BIG gamble), or established companies that often have less than stellar social records. And there really aren't that many exclusively silver mines anymore-- most of the silver mined today is a by-product of the mining of lead, zinc, copper, and gold. Even in the best of times, mining company stocks can go downhill if the mine is exhausted and there are no other reserves.

As for the Mad Max scenario, I hope it never comes to that.
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Jack Sprat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 11:33 PM
Response to Reply #66
71. I hope a Mad Max scenario wouldn't occur too.
I'd like to think that we would all cling to civility and humanity, especially in a time of mass hardship. If we don't, then I guess most of us perish together. Besides, without air conditioning, I'm not sure I'd want to live anymore.

About the PM mutual funds, my outlook is that their safety could be in their general mining of all metals. If PM prices suddenly sank again, I think the PM mutual funds would still have value in that copper, lead, zinc, and industrial silver will continue to have some value. Who can say really?
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Yavin4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #66
102. In A Mad Max Scenario, Do You Believe That The MIC Will Allow You To Hold Gold
for yourself?

Do people think that the starving masses will allow you to peacefully purchase goods in a store with your gold coins without mobbing you? Your guns can only kill so many.

As for the store, how does it even stay in business with just one paying customer?
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JustABozoOnThisBus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 10:21 PM
Response to Original message
54. I might have to buy some gold
I have a feeling there's a crown in my future, on one of the molars. Yikes.

Oh, well, a little oral bling.

:hi:
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 10:26 PM
Response to Original message
56. No, it's a sucker's move at this point
The odds right now are about fifty, fifty whether or not the prices are going to rise or fall. The gold bubble is pretty close to bursting.

If gold is going to go up any further, it is going to be in small increments, and probably won't amount to maybe another couple of hundred on the ounce price.

My bet, it's going down.

If you are looking to buy gold to cash in on the investment, buying in right now makes you a fool. If you are buying gold to stash away for the upcoming apocalypse, you are far too late, since at these prices you simply can't get sufficient quantity you would need to survive.

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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 10:48 PM
Response to Original message
60. The best buy was when it broke the long term trendline near $300 an ounce...
and when equities were near a 20 year high ... if you play now you better pay close attention.

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JCMach1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 11:21 PM
Response to Original message
68. Good buy to short...
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Art_from_Ark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 11:27 PM
Response to Reply #68
70. I wouldn't dare try to short precious metals
They're not like some poorly run company that everyone knows is going bust. People were thinking that $800, $900 $1000, $1100, $1200 were good times to short gold. The ones that tried to second-guess the market often lost their shorts.
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7wo7rees Donating Member (913 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 11:26 PM
Response to Original message
69. You can buy gold for less than $1,200 an ounce right now
My buddy has a gold mine in Utah that is in an investment phase right now. It's been productive for years.
He's offering newly mined gold -- smelted, stamped and shipped onsite for $1150 an ounce.
You take delivery on May 15 and put it in the bank or under the bed. Available in 5, 10 or 16 oz. bars.
Your own gold bar! Instant return on investment.
PM me and I'll prove it.
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marions ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #69
101. hmmmmmm
:eyes:
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-22-11 01:30 AM
Response to Original message
73. How much for a gold tooth?
One fell out because I hadn't the dough to fix it.
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Dj13Francis Donating Member (343 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-22-11 04:48 AM
Response to Original message
78. Well, sure it is,
But I think silver will bring much higher gains in percentage. It doubled in the last six months, and will do so again soon.

davidjamesfrancis.com
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SkyDaddy7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-22-11 04:55 AM
Response to Original message
79. I am thinking HUGE Bubble about to POP!! nt.
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quaker bill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-22-11 05:38 AM
Response to Original message
80. I have a simple gage
The guys I know who are just now getting into the metals market now are the exact same guys who suddenly got into tech stocks just before the crash, and were suddenly into real estate flipping in 2007.

Whenever these guys start talking investments in the breakroom, I get out of whatever they are talking about, given I am in it.

Personally, I bought silver between $10 and $16. I melt it, form it and construct jewelry with it. Then I sell it for 70 to 100. Works like a charm. I have a sufficient stock in ingots to wait the bubble out.
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KillCapitalism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-22-11 07:40 AM
Response to Original message
83. Complete waste of $
Why?

Can you eat it?

Invest in food stores, generators, fuel, clean water, toilet paper, first aid supplies, etc. These are the things that will become valuable in a total & complete economic collapse.
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Modern_Matthew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-22-11 07:46 AM
Response to Original message
84. Can you eat it? nt
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No DUplicitous DUpe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-22-11 08:54 AM
Response to Original message
85. "Gold is now only as good as the confidence investors have in it...
By their gold investments they are giving it a vote of no confidence."
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No DUplicitous DUpe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-22-11 02:25 PM
Response to Original message
86. The author adds....
Yesterday gold passed $1,500 an ounce for the first time ever, Silver hit its highest mark in 31 years and the DXY index, which measures the U.S. dollar’s value against six other major currencies (the Euro, Yen, etc.), sank to its lowest level since August, 2008. This year the U.S. dollar has already dropped 6.2% on the DXY so far. As the dollar keeps weakening, metals and other commodities such as food and oil continue to rise in cost.

Markets don’t move only in one direction and there will be a correction as prices to some extent reverse themselves. But the longer term trend for the dollar is terrible as the U.S. government spending and trade deficits are out of control and skyrocketing.

Also, on the front page of today’s Wall Street Journal is: “World Is Bitten By the Gold Bug,” as they analyze this global phenomena.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704889404576277361924031364.html

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shraby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-22-11 03:02 PM
Response to Original message
88. I'd call it a "good sell".
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sudopod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-22-11 03:06 PM
Response to Original message
89. Just a note for everyone involved in this: you haven't made diddly squat till you sell it. nt
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Alexander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-22-11 03:28 PM
Response to Original message
90. Silver is much cheaper and also on the rise.
I bought some silver two years ago, and it has almost tripled in value. As of right now silver is at $46.5 dollars an ounce.
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LynneSin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-23-11 02:57 PM
Response to Original message
92. It's like Beanie Babies - only worth it if you can find someone who will buy it at that price
But that's my 2 cents
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JNelson6563 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-23-11 03:35 PM
Response to Original message
93. nope, I wouldn't buy now for anything.
I went long on gold before it was 400.00 an oz. :toast: That was a long time ago, so long ago that DU's stock thread was informative and covered the actual stock markets. Talk about a ride in the way-back-machine!

Julie
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wysingm Donating Member (115 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-23-11 07:14 PM
Response to Original message
94. Remember
It cost 10% to buy and 10% to sell. Do your research.
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wizstars Donating Member (792 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-23-11 09:06 PM
Response to Original message
95. buy high, sell low--a surefire way to get poor.....
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No DUplicitous DUpe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 02:52 PM
Response to Original message
96. Gold hit another record price yesterday....
No market only goes in one direction so there will be a sell-off of gold sometime soon. But this upward gold price trend over the last few years is unfortunate because it shows a lack of confidence in the U.S. dollar, and the U.S. government is only aggravating the situation with its near zero interest rates and its run-away deficits and printing of money.
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ThomWV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #96
98. Oil hit new all-time highs day after day just before the crash too (so did houses)
And the more Bernie stole the more people tried to "invest" in his "fund" too.
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 02:53 PM
Response to Original message
97. Can you smoke, snort, or eat it?
Edited on Tue Apr-26-11 02:54 PM by Warren DeMontague
Then, no.
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No DUplicitous DUpe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #97
99. See post 91, for the author's reply to your comment.
:hi:
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #99
100. I have a friend who is an Alex Jones/survivalist type
she put all her money in gold a while back. If I was making fun of her then, I'm not now. She's done REAL well on it.

So, I'm not qualified to speculate. Trust your gut? :shrug:
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