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Why are the Republicans being so brazen about their plans to dismantle America?

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Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 11:39 AM
Original message
Why are the Republicans being so brazen about their plans to dismantle America?
I think it is simple; they've had a few election cycles to work the kinks out of their vote rigging electronic voting. Americans don't even talk about it anymore. And we don't bat an eye -- the media makes sure of it -- even when the theft is as blatant as the Prosser debacle in Wisconsin.

I posted before the Obama election that the GOP was desperate to actually LOSE that one. The economic disaster they had deliberately created needed a new Democratic figure head. A couple years of pain, with a president who might not even be from this country, would set the stage. They would make sure things got so bad, the political climate so poisoned, that any GOP win, no matter how absurd (as in Wisconsin) could be made to seem plausible. A compliant media would seal the deal.

Do you think this is far fetched? One only has to go back to the pre-Bush pronouncements of Grover Norquist, George Casey and other of Bush's economic henchmen to see the writing that was on the wall. They spoke openly of destroying the economy in order to rebuild it in their GOP utopian dream image. They spoke of mass societal pain needed to help bring about their goals. Distrusted, discredited voting machines were just one step along the way. I think they think they've got it figured out enough to pull it off, no matter how blatant their attempts.

Of course, I could be wrong.
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 11:42 AM
Response to Original message
1. It's a test. They're testing just how far they can go.
We need to send an unmistakable message to these morons in 2012. If we do not, we may never have another chance. I'm deadly serious about this.

If some people are not willing to go to the wall in reversing this trend, then I suggest they stand out of the way. We must make this 2012 election a memorable one.
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Brickbat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 11:44 AM
Response to Original message
2. Because no one is trying to stop them. It's their MO.
Edited on Wed Apr-20-11 11:44 AM by Brickbat
Push, take and go farther until someone pushes back. And now that elections and courts are in a position to help them, we can't rely on them.
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. +1
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 11:49 AM
Response to Original message
3. Before Sept 11th NOBODY was discussing the NeoConservatives. Nobody knew Grover Norquist
outside of small political circles.

Honestly, I think your observations regarding the past are colored by today's perceptions.

That said, I do agree that Republicans are more brazen. It reeks of a certain amount of desperation to me. They know demographics and time are against them.
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pscot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. I think you're in denial
What's happening now is the culmination of a process that was Hatched under Nixon and set in motion during the Reagan years. This is the New World Order that GHW Bush promised us back in 1988.
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EC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #3
11. Are you kidding?
Anyone who was paying even a little attention knew about Grover and Ralph Reed - since the start of the Christian Majority shit. It was coordinated since the 80's.
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. No, not everyone who was paying even a little attention knew about Grover Norquist and his
weekly meetings back in 1989.

And it's interesting you had to throw in Reed's name.

Even then, the Goldwater disciples including Karl Rove weren't that widely talked about.

Whatever.


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EC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. Look up "The Gang of Five"
and you do remember the "Contract with America" don't you? It wasn't all Newty. There was Nina Eastland's book in 2000 (before 9/11). The group was Bill Kristol, Clint Bolick, Grover & Ralph and David McIntosh....


I'm sure you remember this stuff, you likely just didn't know that Grover was the co-author of the "Contract" with Newty.
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Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #3
13. You have a very short recollection of history.
These guys were up front about back then, well before the attacks on 9/11. It was/is their manifesto. In fact, I assure you that many DUers would be happy to make the case that the 9/11 attacks were simply another leg of the journey to bring about the New World Order they wished for. But to claim no one heard of NeoConservatism before the events in NYC and Washington is simply absurd.
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. Bullshit. I remember on SmirkingChimp, after 9/11 some people were saying
Edited on Wed Apr-20-11 01:19 PM by KittyWampus
there had to be some sort of manifesto or something.

It was some good time AFTER September 11th that the NeoConservative "Project For A New American Century" and their desire for a Pearl Harbor became known.

Go ahead and find a PNAC reference before Sept 11th.

And when Gingrich's "Contract W/America" was being hoisted upon us NOBODY discussed Grover Norquist at that time.

When Junior was running for POTUS there was little to no discussion of Rove.

Whatever.
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Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. The PNAC outline was drafted and signed long before 9/11. Sorry, that's just fact.
It may not jibe with your recollection, but facts is facts. Just because you don't remember discussions about this doesn't mean they didn't happen. NPR covered it extensively...possibly why BushCo move relatively quickly to replace the board with friendlies.
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socialist_n_TN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #16
28. Well maybe I'm just informed, but I remember Norquist's
name from the REAGAN years. Drowning government in a bathtub comes to mind.
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grillo7 Donating Member (243 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #13
22. It wasn't--and still isn't--widely known
Sure, some of us who are really wonky and involved in these kinds of things knew about Norquist and that group's whole agenda to dismantle the system, but in a mainstream sense? It's STILL pretty hidden.
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Keith Bee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 11:55 AM
Response to Original message
5. You'd prefer them to be sneaky about it?
The bolder the are, the better the chance the country wakes up.
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zeemike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. And how are they going to do that
When their eyes are glued to Kim Kardasina's ass or on any of the other programs that pass for entertainment....who will tell them?
I would bet right now that only a small percentage of the people even know what is going on in many of the states.
We are much like Rome was....the people were occupied with bread and circus until the Rubicon was crossed.
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 12:13 PM
Response to Original message
8. I already blogged about my theory
"A World Grown Smaller: Wealth Holds No Allegience".
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

To boil it down to a way oversimplified point; the wealthy here are loosening their ties to America which means the time has arrived to initiate systematic looting of it before they finally pull up stakes. "The American Century" is coming to a close.
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. That is right on the money. They don't need us anymore.
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Beam Me Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. I think it is worse than that. They not only don't need us, we've become a liability to them.
I think if the truth were known we're the biggest threat to their hegemony there is. Of course neither they nor the media they own will ever tell us that, will ever say anything that might embolden or empower us.
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. they also know that revolutions are born in the middle class.
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MedleyMisty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #14
29. So get one started now
before it's too late.
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #29
35. They are organic, nobody "starts" them. The corporatist tried
to start a right wing revolution, but it appears to have fizzled out. Revolutions are bottom up, and happen when there are real grievances. Things suck right now, but I don't think we are at a tipping point that would spawn a spontaneous national uprising. I think it won't be directed at the government as much as against the ruling class, the corporatist. It will be class, not politics.

Ballots, not bullets is still the best course. Remember, we have a revolution every four years.
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grillo7 Donating Member (243 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #8
24. That may be true...
It reminded me of this article that ran in The Atlantic that was about how, in part, the super rich no longer feel any particular allegiance to the US.

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2011/01/the... /
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TygrBright Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 12:41 PM
Response to Original message
9. Desperation. They're behind the curve-- they don't realize...
...that the pendulum passed the bottom point of its arc sometime late last year. However, they KNOW that the bottom of the arc is "near" and they are trying to steal and plunder and destroy everything they possibly can while they still have any leeway at all.

speculatively,
Bright
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 01:20 PM
Response to Original message
17. Because the fascists know that post-CitizensUnited they control most broadcast media at this point
and can do anything they damn well please.
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Proud Liberal Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 01:21 PM
Response to Original message
18. One last "smash and grab" before the "demographic window" closes on them?
Edited on Wed Apr-20-11 01:21 PM by Proud Liberal Dem
or an attempt to finally establish a corporate monarchy/dictatorship in this country? I dunno. I though that Chris Rock's explanation of them being a bunch of unruly kids acting up before finally going to sleep was pretty good. :shrug: I'm guessing that by being as brazen and bold as they are, that it's more the former rather than the latter (or the Chris Rock suggestion would work too) because you're not going to be able to get everybody to follow your rule if you're basically doing everything you can to attract attention and honk people off because when people are honked off, they're not being complacent and they're certainly paying attention to what is going on. It's only taken, what, 2-3 months for people to, at least according to the polls, turn against the psychotic Republican stepdads in Wisconsin, Ohio, Michigan, etc and the House GOP?
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Fire Walk With Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 02:26 PM
Response to Original message
21. They want to own everything. "Stress tests." Financial martial law.
GEt to know them.
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 02:45 PM
Response to Original message
23. B/c they sense that Obama and elected DEMS are going to let them get away with it?
Sorry, but that is my take on it.
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JoePhilly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 02:49 PM
Response to Original message
25. They are burning the oil fields, like Saddam did after Gulf War #1.
They are trying to pillage as much as they can, and destroy what remains.
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. Right before we "won" over there. n/t
n/t
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and-justice-for-all Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 02:55 PM
Response to Original message
26. They masterbate to the idea of destroying America every night..
their dream is that of an America run by corporate sponsors and where there is no regulations and social programs no longer exist, al the while the war machine marches on to conquer sovereign countries for their riches and to convert the locals to a xtian ideology or kill them if they do not.
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 07:48 PM
Response to Original message
30. The 2012 & 2104 senate maps & the slow-wittedness of most republican voters
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LaPera Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 08:47 PM
Response to Original message
31. Hateful greedy elitist Republican lying corporate fascist slime has no feelings for workers
Edited on Wed Apr-20-11 08:48 PM by LaPera
only the wealthy and their corporations.
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rustydog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 09:03 PM
Response to Original message
32. They do not think they are dismantling THEIR America!
They are trying to complete work on their corporate America.
The America we refer to in posts here would be an alien country to the GOP.
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 09:19 PM
Response to Original message
33. They really are economic and social anarchists
But I can't figure out their end game, because they seem to thrive on "scorched earth" policies that are guaranteed to tear the country apart - and with it, their chance of wealth and power. It'll be 16th century France all over again.

And who wants to be lord over a dystopian wasteland where people don't trust their neighbours, let alone some outsider from an ineffective and co-opted government? Shit, even the teabaggers will realize this eventually.

It astounds me the amount of short-sighted thinking from those who have skillfully achieved the present situation after DECADES of planning and acting on that plan.

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kenny blankenship Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 09:53 PM
Response to Original message
34. They UNDERSTAND that you strike when the iron is hot.
Edited on Wed Apr-20-11 10:41 PM by kenny blankenship
Dems don't fucking get it. America is in crisis and that emergency will allow SOME PARTY to put its ideological program into action for a long fucking time to come. One party or the other is going to put its stamp on the institutions of government for the next 30-70 years. Democrats don't really want to be that party because they don't actually believe in anything - they just kinda wanta be like Republicans with their super-rich corporate friends, just not quite so crazy. They are led by a slick corporate functionary who calls himself - actually calls HIMSELF- post partisan and post ideological. He may be Bi-Partisan but he is ALL-fool. The Dems had their chance in 2008 and tried to carry on like it was business as usual and that America was going to return to Reagan's Eternal Morning any day now. It turned out, when they got their shot, that they weren't anything new or different. The frustration of the independent voters with this 'Bidness-As-Usual' was matched only by the horror of the Democratic base who expected the second coming of FDR and the New Deal but witnessed a second corporatist party taking the reins from GOP. So Dems aren't insistent about explaining to the people HOW we came to be in such a sorry condition, (because they don't care and don't know, they don't get that there's something that needs to be explained) and they aren't insistent about shaping a future in which the collapse we've lived through can't happen again (because they LIKED how things were before the crash and just want to get back to the status quo ante not realizing that it's impossible). Faced with a hot iron, Democrats can't wait to throw it into a bucket of water. But Republicans do WANT to be that party which explains and shapes, because they actually BELIEVE the crazy shit that comes out of their mouths. It doesn't matter that they are 90% of the reason why we are up shit creek and that they can't explain a goddamn thing or prevent disaster from recurring. They want to lead and they say they have a plan, which makes them QUALIFIED compared to the thumbs-up-asses Democrats, whose big plan is to muddle through somehow and who prefer to avoid discussing the roots of our collapse with happy talk about how it'll all be better soon, or evasive replies that they'd just rather not talk about that subject. Even when Republicans don't believe their crap fully, they know that if they keep hammering away at their message and keep implementing this plan, the more believable it will be for them. The iron is hot for them and they intend to strike. This moment of crisis should be the early days of a post-Republican phase of American History. It should have buried the GOP in ignominy and disgrace forever. They should be gone. Instead, thanks to Democratic bungling and vapidity, the Republicans are actually seizing it as THEIR Revolutionary Moment. People who think the Republicans will modulate and moderate themselves, given a little time, are in for A BIG FUCKING SURPRISE. They know they can crowd out and drown out any alternate ideas and inconvenient realities if they just keep banging away at their messaging and insisting that they are the sole keepers of America's sacred tradition. For one thing, there's no real competition: Democrats are unable or unwilling to articulate a DIFFERENT vision, a different explanation of the obstacles we face, a different story of how we came to be in this present crisis, a different plan for getting out of it. (yes, the Republicans truly believe they can make their own reality by force of will-The Triumph of the Will- and it's up to non-Republicans to stop them and prove that the Universe doesn't work that way.)
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