Ben Stein is a liar

[BanzaiBonnie]

On Sunday Morning he just said, "The Federal Reserve, which is part of the government... " and then he said some other crapola. But my mind shut down at that point. Ben Stein is a liar and I've heard enough nonsense from him over the years to be pretty sure he's also another Ayn Rand fan.


Since WHEN is the Fedral Reserve part of the government. It is a privately held, for profit, institution.

I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but that's my understanding.

[proud2BlibKansan]

1. You are correct

But of course the Ben Stein fans will disagree.

[Buzz Clik]

7. I like Ben Stein the celebrity, but I don't like his politics.

I watched "Ben Stein's Money" religiously (the birthplace for Jimmy Kimmel's career), and I have enjoyed his various acting careers.

[SDuderstadt]

10. I'm no fan of Ben Stein, but...

he is correct.

http://www.publiceye.org/conspire/flaherty/Federal_Reserve.html

[proud2BlibKansan]

14. The first sentence of your link:

"Yes, the Federal Reserve banks are privately owned, but they are controlled by the publically-appointed Board of Governors. "

[SDuderstadt]

16. Exactly...

keywords being: controlled by the publicly appointed Board of Governors. Does that sound like "ownership" to you? The member banks are required to buy subscription stock which confers virtually none of the benefits of ownership as one would normally regard it.

Next time, read more deeply before exercising your confirmation bias.

[proud2BlibKansan]

40. "privately owned"

[SDuderstadt]

43. I have explained this repeatedly...

You choose to ignore it. There is a difference between the Federal Reserve, which is an agency of the U.S. Government and the regional banks, which are "owned" by the member banks, but are controlled by the Fed's board of governors.

I'm not explaining this again.

[daggahead]

2. Just remember ...

It is part of the government when it is being used to criticize a Democratic President.

[Warren Stupidity]

3. It is neither part of the government nor is it separate from the government.

It is our chartered central bank. Not exactly part of the government, not a privately held for profit institution either. The Fed's Board of Governors is appointed by the president.

Stein is a liar and an idiot, but not completely wrong on this topic.

[Buzz Clik]

4. Actually, it is a part of the US Government, but it acts independently.

They don't have to have their actions approved by the president or Congress, although the Federal Reserve Board must give reports to Congress and the members are presidential appointees.

[P. Galore]

6. Correctamundo. And members go through a senate confirmation process. nt

[Ikonoklast]

15. But every governor is only nominated by the members.

It's a crooked game when all the players on the field are also on the same team.

[SDuderstadt]

18. Huh?

The governors are nominated by the President, not the members.

[P. Galore]

5. You are wrong. Ben Stein's dad was G. Ford's top economic adviser.

He knows that kind of stuff.

[MinM]

9. So he comes by his lying 'honestly'?

:eyes:

[P. Galore]

23. He's correct on the Federal Reserve and his father was progressive by today's standards. nt

[MinM]

29. Right. Speaking more to the intellectual dishonesty displayed in "Expelled"

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=ben-steins-expelled-review-john-rennie

More specifically an argument Ben Stein made equating the struggle of Southern Religious leaders of today, i.e., Terry Jones, to that of Martin Luther King, Jr. This was also during one of his commentaries for CBS Sunday Morning. Of course he conveniently leaves out the part that those same Southern White Christian Fundamentalists were violently opposed to Dr. King.

[P. Galore]

50. We're talking about the structure of the Federal Reserve, and he is correct. nt

[MinM]

56. I'm going by the title of the thread - "Ben Stein is a Liar" - which is correct.

I couldn't care less about the Fed for the purpose of this debate. Ben Stein is a lying sack of shit. That's the title of the thread and that's the point that should not be lost.

[spanone]

48. he's an ass

'If there is such a thing as karma, if there is such a thing as justice in this life or the next, Mark Felt has bought himself the worst future of any man on this earth. And Bob Woodward is right behind him, with Ben Bradlee bringing up the rear. Out of their smug arrogance and contempt, they hatched the worst nightmare imaginable: genocide.'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Stein

[P. Galore]

51. I didn't say he was not an ass. I said he was correct on the Federal Reserve. nt

[Mrs. Ted Nancy]

67. and a bad financial advisor

He's just as bad as Jim Cramer

Financial advice prior to 2008 stock market crash

On March 18, 2007, in a column for CBS News' online version of CBS News Sunday Morning, Stein famously proclaimed in the beginning of the subprime mortgage crisis that the foreclosure problem would "blow over and the people who buy now, in due time, will be glad they did," the economy was "still very strong," and the "smart money" was "now trying to buy — not sell — as much distressed merchandise" in mortgages as possible.<25>

On August 18, 2007, on Fox News Channel's Cavuto on Business, Stein appeared with other financial experts dismissing worries of a coming credit crunch.<26> The lone dissenter was Peter Schiff, who predicted that the mortgage sector would create a crisis leading to massive recession, a view that produced laughter from the other experts. Stein strongly recommended investing in then-troubled financial institutions.<26>

Ben Stein: The credit crunch is way overblown. The are being given away; they're so unbelievably cheap...The subprime problem is a problem, but it's a tiny problem in the context of this economy...It's a buying opportunity, especially for the financials, maybe like I've never seen before in my entire life.
<...>

Peter Schiff: This is just getting started. It's not just subprimes. This is a problem for the entire mortgage industry. It's not just people with bad credit that committed to mortgages they couldn't afford. It's not just people with bad credit who are going to see their home equity vanish... This is going to be an enormous credit crunch...

Neil Cavuto: You must be a laugh-riot at parties.
(LAUGHTER)

<...>
Ben Stein: ...subprime is tiny. Subprime is a tiny, tiny blip.

Peter Schiff: It's not tiny. And again, it's not just subprime. It's the entire mortgage market.

Ben Stein: You're simply wrong about that... Defaults for the whole mortgage market are tiny.
<...>
Ben Stein: I think stocks will be a heck of a lot higher a year from now than they are now.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Stein

[SDuderstadt]

8. The Federal Reserve is...

an independent federal agency and it really isn't "owned" by anyone. The member banks are required to purchase subscription stock, which confers almost nothing in the way of "ownership" as it is commonly understood.

http://www.oswego.edu/~edunne/fedmyths.html

http://www.publiceye.org/conspire/flaherty/Federal_Reserve.html

It should be noted that virtually all the conspiracy theories about the Federal Reserve are RW in nature.

[JVS]

38. ^^^ That is correct.

And to elaborate: the reason that the Fed is created as an independent agency is so that political concerns don't interfere with good long-term policy. In countries where the central bank answers to the government directly, you get things like vastly increasing the money supply in the run-up to elections in order to jolt the economy into action.

[joshcryer]

73. Correct, I never understood people complaining about the reserve charging interest.

Money would have no value if it did not have interest.

[CanSocDem]

11. If I'm not mistaken...

...Ben Stein is Canadian. Moved to Hollywood in the 60's to work as a TV writer. Drank the kool-aid. Wrote a book about an exotic cat he owned. Lost all credibility....

.

[Buzz Clik]

13. Born in Wash DC

But you can have him.

[Enthusiast]

22. In addition to his movie

Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed.

This movie actually promotes ignorance.

[Fuddnik]

55. The sequel just came out. "Atlas Shrugged. Pt1".

Promotes ignorance and greed.

[GKirk]

12. Now does Ben get to call you

a liar for your statement? :)
"Since WHEN is the Fedral Reserve part of the government. It is a privately held, for profit, institution."

A quick Wiki check produces:

>>> The Federal Reserve System's structure is composed of the presidentially appointed Board of Governors (or Federal Reserve Board)

>>> the Federal Reserve is independent within government in that "its decisions do not have to be ratified by the President or anyone else in the executive or legislative branch of government." However, its authority is derived from the U.S. Congress and is subject to congressional oversight.

>>> Thus the Federal Reserve has both private and public aspects

Or maybe you're both incorrect.

And this is something interesting I didn't know:

>>>The U.S. Government receives all of the system's annual profits, after a statutory dividend of 6% on member banks' capital investment is paid, and an account surplus is maintained. In 2010, the Federal Reserve made a profit of $82 billion and transferred $79 billion to the U.S. Treasury

[Keith Bee]

17. Fish are wet

[WinkyDink]

19. Ben Stein, erstwhile Nixon economist, is a LIAR?! I'm shocked!

[SDuderstadt]

20. He didn't lie...

he also was not an "erstwhile Nixon economist". You've got him mixed up with his father, Herbert Stein.

[P. Galore]

25. I can't believe how doggedly ignorant people here are about facts.

And Herbert Stein would be considered a progressive today.

He said that the wealth gap was THE biggest economic problem of the '80s and '90s.

[SDuderstadt]

26. DU's...

shoot-first, ask-questions-later brigade is a hoot.

[WinkyDink]

75. Excuse me; I goofed. See CORRECTION below.

[WinkyDink]

76. Amazing how ignorant some can be about staying on topic.

Which is: Ben Stein and prevaricating.

[Fuddnik]

57. I think at that time, Benji was one of Nixswine's speechwriters.

[rustydog]

69. He was a GOP speechwriter and he is a liar.

[WinkyDink]

74. Right; he was worse: "In 1973 and 1974, he was a speech writer and lawyer for Richard Nixon at The

The White House...."
http://www.benstein.com/bio.html

Like I said, SHOCKED.

[Schema Thing]

21. Odd, because most Rand fans don't openly call for higher taxes on the wealthy

And just this morning, on DU, I read where Stein had called for a return to Bill Clinton era economic policies and derided "voo-doo" economics.

[Odin2005]

24. Technically it has the same relationship to the US Gov. as, say, NASA or the NSF.

[customerserviceguy]

27. It's in that 'gray' area

Like the Postal Service or Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac. It has aspects of both a private business, and of a government agency. I can see people calling it one thing or the other, it's all a matter of what attributes you look at.

But in the case of the Postal Service, we have private delivery services that compete on a limited basis, and with Fannie/Freddie, we have independent banking organizations that fund home loans. Does any other entity operate in any sort of competitive business in the same things the Federal Reserve has reserved to it? That makes it look more like a part of the government, to me.

[Dokkie]

28. if its part of the US govt

then I suggest we stop paying the interest of the debt we owe them NOW. At least lest pay off the SS trust fund 1st before putting anymore money into that hell hole.

[SDuderstadt]

31. More Federal Reserve myth...

The Federal Reserve is required by federal law to remit all of its revenues minus operating costs, reserve provisions and dividends (6% of capital invested in subscription stock) to the U.S. Treasury. In 2010, the Fed made a profit of $82B and rebated $79B to the U.S. Treasury.

[Dokkie]

32. So are you saying that it is a myth that the US

owes money to the Federal reserve?

[SDuderstadt]

33. No

Duh.

However, did you skip over the part about the Federal Reserve being required by Federal law to rebate all but a very small portion of its profits back to the U.S. Treasury? Hint: the Federal Reserve pays us all that interest back.

http://www.publiceye.org/conspire/flaherty/flaherty8.html

[Dokkie]

37. I am not exactly sure what it means

especially since about 45% of the US national debt is owed to the Federal reserve. Does it mean that when we pay it off, they can only keep a small portion of the money collected and return the rest to the treasury?

[MrMickeysMom]

30. No kidding? What a joke Ben Stein is...

Anyone think this guy did anything other than.... Buhler?

Anybody???

[JVS]

34. You're both wrong.

[SDuderstadt]

35. Stein is correct...

the Federal Reserve is an independent federal agency.

[JVS]

39. It isn't part of the government, it's autonomous.

I would say that it is born of the government, and that it is associated, but not that it's part. This is not like the DOD.

[SDuderstadt]

41. We slightly disagree...

It is an independent federal agency much like the USPS. Among other things, independent federal agencies do not report to a cabinet secretary. The Federal Reserve is part of the U.S. government.

[Dokkie]

44. I say if they

make their own budget independent of the US budget, they are nothing like USPS

[SDuderstadt]

47. Take a civics or...

macroeconomics class.

[Dokkie]

49. Nice

You are still avoiding my question. In one post you act as if the majority of the profit (our debt payment included) is passed back to the federal reserve. So my question again is, how much of the principal/interest owed to them would be returned back to the US treasury after we have paid it off?

Also what kind of govt agency doesn't combined its books with the US treasury? we are running a deficit and they are running a surplus. What gives?

[SDuderstadt]

54. Dude...

Do you understand what principal is?

If I loan you $1000 and you pay me back, did I just profit by $1000? Perhaps an accounting class might help.

And, for the last fucking time, the Federal Reserve rebates ALL of its profits after operating expenses and reserves back to the U.S. Treasury. In 2010, they rebated $79B out of $82B.

I'm not explaining this further.

[Dokkie]

58. Dude

The federal reserve prints money out of thin air, they can print $100 or $1000 notes for 10c. So do u really think a sector of the govt should be charging the US govt and its citizens $100/ $1000 plus interest, plus whatever portion they keep to themselves for lending us $100 /$1000? If you ask me, in this case theres no difference between the principal and the profit. And if you calc the profit correctly, most of the $100 or $1000 originally lent to US govt is profit since its cost a tiny fraction of cents in labor and material to produce it.

So how much of the true profit are they really returning back to us? I bet you cannot answer it because its answer reveals the true owners of the FED and that is the people collecting the so called principal

[SDuderstadt]

59. Dude...

you are like a walking anti-Fed misinformation site. I'm not going to keep going over these basics with you.

http://www.publiceye.org/conspire/flaherty/flaherty7.html

[Dokkie]

60. I understand how the scheme works

Its just that I was trying to point out to you how the fed screws the little guy. Yes the trillions we owe the fed comes from the principal they printed out of nothing and some reason is not counted as profits. Why the treasury cannot print this notes themselves is beyond me

[SDuderstadt]

61. Take a civics and/or...

a macroeconomics class, dude.

[Dokkie]

62. The last resort of a cornered man

I just dont think its fair for a bunch of bankers (read: true owners) to be charging the country for the face value of the notes they print. I am very proud if that makes me anti fed, someone has to argue for the little guy left paying the feds bill

[SDuderstadt]

64. Dude...

Do you realize that the anti-Fed nonsense you are spreading is RW?

[Dokkie]

65. tell that to Bernie

he is so right wing, his head is popping out of the left wing. Btw just because the RW supports an idea doesn't automatically mean I should discard it. Maybe if you can tell me why its ok for private bankers to charge the US govt and its citizens $1000 plus interest to print a $1000 note instead trying to play the guilt by association game, maybe just maybe I will come around to your pro fed stance.

[SDuderstadt]

66. They don't...

I have tried to explain this to you repeatedly. With all due respect, this is over your head.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_creation

[Dokkie]

68. I have read most of the article posted in the link

And I have 2 simple questions for u

1: Who gets to keep the trillions of dollars owed to the federal reserve?
Yes they sometimes contract the money supply but who takes the whatever is left (so called principal)?

2: Also since the Federal reserve is part of the US govt, can we default on our payment to them?
i.e combined balance sheets and make the debt go away just like we balanced the budget partly with SS surplus in 1999

[SDuderstadt]

70. Dude...

since you don't remotely understand the concept of central banking, this is a rather pointless "debate".

Do you understand what reserves are?

[Dokkie]

63. Dupe

[Hippo_Tron]

36. The federal reserve board of governors is appointed by the President and confirmed by the Senate

And while the Federal Reserve does often make profits, these profits are returned to the US Treasury at the end of the year.

Ben Stein is still a lying asshat, though...

[Dokkie]

42. so mos of the almost $4 trillion (2007)

we owe the federal reserve would be returned to us once we pay off out debt to them? I would like to know cos that would seriously cut into out debt if we can just wipe out trillions in one fell swoop.

[SDuderstadt]

46. Study the difference between...

principal and interest and you'll have your answer.

[Blue-Jay]

45. Duh. Of course he's a big fat fuckin' liar.

This is not news.

[P. Galore]

53. He is correct in this case. nt

[ddeclue]

52. Sun rises in East..sets in West... film at 11..

Oh wait.. I thought we were having a state the obvious contest..

:rofl:

[Recursion]

71. Nixon's former speechwriter? A liar!?!

How can this be?

Decent comic actor (that straight man schtick isn't as easy to do as it looks), but certainly not an honest person.

[deaniac21]

72. You can say it isn't part of the government but:

According to the Board of Governors, the Federal Reserve is independent within government in that "its decisions do not have to be ratified by the President or anyone else in the executive or legislative branch of government." However, its authority is derived from the U.S. Congress and is subject to congressional oversight. Additionally, the members of the Board of Governors, including its chairman and vice-chairman, are chosen by the President and confirmed by Congress. The government also exercises some control over the Federal Reserve by appointing and setting the salaries of the system's highest-level employees. Thus the Federal Reserve has both private and public aspects.<12><13><14><15> The U.S. Government receives all of the system's annual profits, after a statutory dividend of 6% on member banks' capital investment is paid, and an account surplus is maintained. In 2010, the Federal Reserve made a profit of $82 billion and transferred $79 billion to the U.S. Treasury.<16>

It pretty much is.

[Search4Justice]

77. Stein is just another..

... selfish, greedy. egotistical crapball.

meh.