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eleny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 09:30 PM
Original message
I don't want to share in the sacrifice right now
The working/middle classes and retirees have carried the water for long enough.

I'm against any notion of my sharing in fiscal sacrifices for at least several years. I've paid taxes, bought products, shopped locally and tightened my belt as prices soared.

So enough is enough. Anyone who expects me to sacrifice any further right now can kiss my ass.

What will be legislated will be the law. But this is how I feel about it.
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Teaser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 09:34 PM
Response to Original message
1. it is good that you posted your feelings on this matter.
.
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 09:35 PM
Response to Original message
2. At this point the money should be taken from two places,
Out of the hides of the rich, and out of the military budget. Both of those groups have spent far too long getting fat and happy at the expense of the rest of us.
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eleny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. I agree. And I'll be ready to pay higher taxes after several years
Husband and I paid a bunch in the Clinton years and it was well worth it. But right now, for the next several years, I want the burden to fall on the shoulders of the wealthiest among us. And the military should get an overdue bite out of its budget.
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inna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 09:48 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. exactly. unfortunately, it is them who are calling the shots right now, and
they are not going to voluntarily give up their position of power.
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Scuba Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #2
51. Bingo, BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 09:38 PM
Response to Original message
4. So, it is OK for poor people to sacrifice, though?
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eleny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. They've sacrificed enough, as well. Stand corrected with thanks, b.
Not one single elderly, poor, disabled, children, working and middle class people should have to pitch in more right now.

Even if people don't pay taxes because of their low or no income, they will surely feel burdens as we are all expected to share in the sacrifices on the horizon. And I think it's bull.

Thanks again for helping me clarify.
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inna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 09:52 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. great response; thank you for that.

:yourock:
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #8
15. Good to "see" you again! I've wondered if you were doing OK....
:hi: :pals:
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inna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #15
20. Hey, good to "see" you too! Hug backatcha, hope all is well!
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #5
13. Thanks, eleny! There *is* a class war, and we need to be careful that it isn't between
the middle and poverty classes!

:hi: :yourock:
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eleny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #13
19. Last night Rachel Maddow talked about how our culture has no decent language to discuss "class"
And I thought to myself, "How true!". It never occurred to me but she's so right.

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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. I find it awkward. Saying "lower class" doesn't feel right.
An honest try at including us is all I ask.

All this concentrating on the middleclass and ignoring us not only hurts, but it is making it so that the cuts are easier to do, because the focus is so totally off of us!

Thanks for bringing this up.... do you think it will be possible to get this across to Rachel? It makes me wonder if our little write-in campaign to her had an effect..... suppose?
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eleny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. I didn't know there was a write-in campaign
And btw, I never have related to the middle class. They were always the doctors and lawyers in my early years.

My family was always working class as far as I could tell. It's kind of like the word liberal. Some things you just don't want to give up because they still feel right. I'm proud to be a girl whose dad worked in a factory. Jeez, now I need a hanky.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #23
33. Would you like me to PM you about the write-in part?
Edited on Thu Apr-14-11 11:04 PM by bobbolink
Actually, here it is... the second one down...

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/GreenPartyVot...
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 10:42 PM
Response to Reply #21
25. I hear that about "lower class." The whole point of that phrase was to make sure there
was an "us", the superior wealthy people, and a "them," which is pretty much everyone else who is nowhere near as valuable as the members of the "upper class." (And then along came the middle class, who while not as valuable or special as the upper class, well at least they are visible.)
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eleny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 10:45 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. Seems like a word game with "lower class" replacing "working class"
One is pejorative while the other is rich in history and commands so much respect. With so many people taking lower paying jobs, I hope to see a return to the use of "working class". It's very strong.
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 10:51 PM
Response to Reply #27
30. Yes, working class is good, but we also need to find a way to make sure we don't leave out the
non-workers like the unemployed, the disabled, and the elderly. They are rather invisible too. :( But it's awkward mentioning them all by name if you are in a hurry, I guess, hence the reason why people just jumble them all into the "lower class." It makes it easy, but it definitely is an injustice when you stop to think about it.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 10:52 PM
Response to Reply #27
31. But, please understand who all is left out of that "working" part!
I keep trying to drive that home.

They are getting rid of disability, while "progressives" are bizzy concentrating on "the working class".

Do you see what I am getting at?

Only those who are able to work have value.

What are the rest of us to do?

I have been saying this lately... right here at DU, there are 4 men I know who can no longer work. It has been hell for them to come to terms with that.... men's identity is so wrapped up in what they "do".

Then here we come with all this "working class" stuff... can you understand how that can rub salt in an already hard-to-heal wound?
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eleny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 11:19 PM
Response to Reply #31
37. The point is that our culture doesn't have adequate language to discuss class
Your response speaks so clearly to this dilemma. Talking about the value of one class doesn't devalue the others.

Btw, I resent your saying "here we come with all this "working class" stuff". You've crossed a line in the sand with that. All my family was working class back to my immigrant grandparents and I won't tolerate anyone trying to put it down as if it's not worthy of respect or that talking about with respect is inappropriate.

Goodnight.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. And I am beyond tolerating having people on disabililty being left out.
MY line in the sand.

it is a shame you couldn't relate to what I said about the men who can't work.

Seems like they are worthy of respect, also.

Whatever.
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eleny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #38
47. Then start your own thread and quit hijacking
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #47
48. Nice knee-jerk. I posted to exactly what YOU were talking about.
I see this is now a group meme.

Some "peace".

:puke:
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #47
50. I am putting you on ignore, and I request that you do the same.
You kept conversing with me, and then suddenly attack, NOW claim I hijacked your thread... after all your responses.

This is a game, and I don't wish to play.

Good bye, and good luck. PEACE. :rofl:
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 11:10 PM
Response to Reply #25
35. You know, that makes sense, and probably why it makes me squirm.
We need to put our heads together and come up with a good term!

Maybe Rachel will be a positive force with that!

:hug:
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 10:47 PM
Response to Reply #19
29. I'm hoping she does an entire show on poverty and homelessness.
Since, as Bobbolink said, they are the ones who are completely ignored by our society, government and MSM. The working class, the middle class and the wealthy have endless attention and we NEVER hear mention of our less fortunate in this country. Things are so different than they use to be. Poverty use to be something IMPORTANT to this country. These days you would think it doesn't even exist. That's how ignored it is.
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AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 11:28 PM
Response to Reply #13
39. That is Precisely the Trap They are Laying For Us
The term "class war" has certainly gotten a lot more traction lately.
Why is even the MSM somewhat receptive to the idea now?

Because they are pitting the poor and what is left of the middle class
against each other, while the real culprits remain above the fray.
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mntleo2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 11:04 PM
Response to Reply #5
34. The poor, disabled and elderly pay the highest taxes ... always
Check out the Institute for Economic Policy who have done the wonk work and find that in EVERY SINGLE STATE they pay a far larger part of their incomes in taxes than their richest rich ~ usually at least twice as much. http://itepnet.org Scroll down and click on "Who Pays?"

On that site, they have some fascinating articles about other tax issues and its impact on the "least of us" as well.

Hope this helps ...

Cat in Seattle
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #4
45. Absolutely not!
They should sacrifice little to none - heck they have little to none. No, it's the rich bastards who better start ponying up or we're going to have a problem that no amount of letting us eat cake will fix.
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unkachuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 09:42 PM
Response to Original message
6. "Anyone who expects me to sacrifice any further right now can kiss my ass."
....hear! hear!....we didn't create this economic and governmental mess and we shouldn't be expected to clean it up....

....I'll contribute nothing until we get the corporate bastards who created our problems and take it out on them....'are there no prisons, are there no work houses?'
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eleny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 09:52 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. We may not have a choice but we still have a voice
I just resent our being asked to sacrifice as if we haven't been doing just that for a very long time.
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 09:54 PM
Response to Original message
10. Fine. Just be sure you know what you're willing to give up & in what order of priority. Yes, I know
it ain't right, but that IS the way it is and I'm not willing to cause further damage to those whom you identify to pretend otherwise.
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. P.S. I may say something more like you, when I finish my tax return tomorrow. nt
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eleny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 10:11 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. LOL!!!
Hey listen, I'm talking about parity. In a reply to someone else above I said that I'd be ready to go back to the Clinton tax rates for my income. We paid it then and I'll do it again. **But not right now.** Now it's time for Uncle Scrooge McDuck to go money spearing in his vault and hand over some of the largess to the tax man.



Good luck with your taxes.
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Art_from_Ark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 01:29 AM
Response to Reply #16
42. I remember that scene from a comic book from long ago
I spent a lot of time reading those comics at the local Boys' Club. And wondering why Uncle Scrooge had so much money, but never shared it with anyone. (On a side note, I also wondered why the only mother specifically mentioned in "Duckberg" was the leader of an outlaw gang)
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eleny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #42
49. I just found a page that talks about Ma Beagle being fashioned after Ma Barker
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beagle_Boys

The Scrooge picture I wanted to find was the one where Scrooge McDuck is wearing face goggles and is spearing for hundred dollar bills.
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 09:59 PM
Response to Original message
12. Curious here: How many people in this thread have actively (i.e. NOT on the internet) fought against
these wars ever since the Invasion & Occupation of Iraq in 2003.

Not that if you didn't you have no right to say what you're saying. You have every right. And not that my opinion of you will change, because I do understand HOW these things happen.

I'm just curious.
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eleny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 10:05 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. I've been fighting, marching or voicing agaisnt war since LBJ
It's a good question, btw. People need to realize how they get to supporting the system that crushes them. Good people can get fooled and duped.

No time like the present to diagram the structure of our nation like a sentence back in the fifth grade. Stand back and take a look at the parts and how they fit together to keep us on this train ride to hell.

Thanks for the thought provoking reply.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. Me, too, also. Were you in that big march in Denvoid before the Iraq mess?
Edited on Thu Apr-14-11 10:13 PM by bobbolink
I would have waved if I had known you were there...

:hi:

However, I was in favor of the no fly zone in Libya, and refuse to take any more shit about that. I know it was/is a very different situation, and I feel good about my response to it.

So there. ~~chortle~~
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eleny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 10:42 PM
Response to Reply #17
26. I didn't make it to the big one and so wanted to go to D.C. for it
I'm so glad you made it.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #26
36. That explains why I didn't see you there. ^_^
I held a place for you, though. :hi:

For some reason, parts of that march really stand out to me. I think it was the emotion... impending catastrophe, yet we had so much hope because a lot of us were speaking out.. not waiting, as we did with Vietnam.

Alas..... :cry:
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Mojeoux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #12
32. "Women in Black"
Every Friday noon till around 2. There are "Women in Black" groups all over the country.
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Stinky The Clown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 10:15 PM
Response to Original message
18. ...
:hug:

:thumbsup:



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eleny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. I loathed Scrooge McDuck - It primed me for loathing guys like the the Kochs


:hi:
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Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 10:41 PM
Response to Original message
24. Well as far as I am concerned
I contributed when they stole the money out of my 401k--as did many other folks in the working class.
Then...not only did they steal THAT money...they repaid THEIR losses with MORE of my money.

So, I'm not in the mood to sacrifice either.

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eleny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 10:47 PM
Response to Reply #24
28. It's time for Uncle Scrooge McDuck to turn out is pockets
I'm so with you on the stolen 401k theft.
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Lugnut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 12:02 AM
Response to Original message
40. K & f'n R! n/t
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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 12:49 AM
Response to Original message
41. Workers have been sharing the sacrifice since 1983.
Remember that huge social security tax hike? The one which was going to make social security solvent for the baby boomers?

Turns out, ha ha, that they have no intention of honoring those investments.

Fooled me once already, assholes.
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girl_interrupted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 01:36 AM
Response to Original message
43. K&R
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Search4Justice Donating Member (104 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 09:48 AM
Response to Original message
44. I hear you loud and clear.
Unless I start selling body parts, I'm fresh out of stuff to "sacrifice" anyway.
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 10:47 AM
Response to Original message
46. recommend
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