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upstatecajun Donating Member (511 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 06:04 PM
Original message
TSA agent threatened parents of frisked 6 year old
According to the parents of a six year old who was intrusively frisked by a Transportation Security Agent, the agent warned them not to make a fuss or there would be trouble.

This is unacceptable. If your false sense of security requires a six year old to be frisked by a stranger, perhaps you are a coward. What began as an intrusive inconvenience has become an assault on freedom. No one has the right to touch my child. Furthermore, I can make a fuss about anything I want. If my telling you to keep your hands off my child is a problem for you, Id suggest you keep your hands off my child.

http://www.tloforum.org/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=96
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FiveGoodMen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 06:07 PM
Response to Original message
1. We, the people, have lost control of everything.
Our government is no longer concerned with what is good, what is right, what is healthy, what we want.

We have lost it all.
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Somewhere George Orwell is laughing. nm
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FiveGoodMen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #3
15. More likely gnashing his teeth.
He tried to warn us more than once.
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virgogal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 06:08 PM
Response to Original message
2. Madness ! eom
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Kurmudgeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 06:11 PM
Response to Original message
4. I think someone in authority, like the TSA agent's boss, should ask what trouble does he intend. n/m
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Lifelong Protester Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 06:12 PM
Response to Original message
5. this whole TSA farce is OUT OF CONTROL!
Shut it down!

People, we need to quit acting like sheep and just keep submitting to WHATEVER the overlords choose we will submit to.

I will not be flying (unless it is a family emergency) until this is rethought out.
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. Same here. n/t
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #5
13. I wonder how much money this whole Homeland Security
apparatus added to the deficit? I agree, we can't afford it. All it is doing is making a lot of people, like Chertoff, very, very rich. This whole thing is so transparent it is truly disturbing to see people going along with it.

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ladywnch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #13
52. Homeland Security is a HUGE dark pit of money for just about
every/any business to dip into and make a killing.

I've worked 3 Homeland Security programs over the last 9 years and the waste, abuse, padding of contracts is nothing short of obscene. It makes the Defense funding look legit by comparison. It is an enormous slush fund and little else.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #52
86. I'm not surprised to hear that. A few years ago
there were reports, I think in Harper's magazine of hug corruption involving many top elected officials and others high in the government, like Chertoff eg. Stories of Homeland Sec. money being used to pay for prostitutes etc. Not to mention the corruption involved in the contracts being handed out.

I think one member of Congress went to jail and then the story died with no further investigation.

But it's sickening to think that people like Chertoff are again profiting from this fund and that this is the primary reason for those machines getting into airports.
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coalition_unwilling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #86
144. Now "hug corruption" is something everyone should be able
to get behind :)
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-17-11 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #144
157. Lol!
Sorry about that! Otoh, there were allegations of prostitutes being brought to the Watergate Complex and being paid for with Homeland Security money. Chertoff was implicated in those charges.

So although the allegations were never investigated, wouldn't that fall under 'hug corruption'? :-)
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2banon Donating Member (794 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #13
59. Bingo
I don't have the figures, I don't even remember what I read in terms of the percentage of deficit/debt or budget.. but I assure you, HLS appartaus/infrastrure killing us economically and the wealthy don't even have to pay for it.
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shanti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #5
32. i made that decision too
to not fly unless absolutely necessary. as such, i will be taking the train for a long weekend trip. it's become just too much for me.
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Angry Dragon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #32
110. Trains and buses will be next
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shanti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #5
33. dupe
Edited on Thu Apr-14-11 11:20 PM by shanti
self-delete
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Curmudgeoness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 06:18 PM
Response to Original message
6. I would rather risk the small chance of dying on a plane
than to see what they are doing to children, who have no way of understanding what is happening, and are taught all the time there it is NOT ACCEPTABLE for anyone to touch them in those areas.

And as my heart goes out to these children, I am just as pissed about people with medical problems, or ordinary citizens just trying to get from one place to another.
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Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 06:19 PM
Response to Original message
7. Terrorist certainly won this round anyway.
They terrified America and it looks like america is going to stay terrified.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 06:24 PM
Response to Original message
8. as long as some passengers FEEL safer, threats are in line. all that matters
is that people FEEL safer.
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alp227 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 06:30 PM
Response to Original message
9. at least they're not like cops who leap and whack people who haven't resisted arrest
Edited on Thu Apr-14-11 07:15 PM by alp227
this is just outrageous in the "land of the free except in airports".
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GoneOffShore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 07:14 PM
Response to Reply #9
118. They will be soon.
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CBGLuthier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 06:35 PM
Response to Original message
10. If it was my kid that agent would have a whole new definition of trouble
Really and truly I don't care what kind of badge you carry nobody would be molesting my children while I stood by.
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Possumpoint Donating Member (937 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #10
17. I Assume
I would be facing charges if it was my child. I'd demand a jury trial.
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Lugnut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #17
29. As would I.
I'd be facing charges if I was subjected to that kind of assault.
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a la izquierda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #17
63. My husband jokes...
that if we fly together, and they treat me the way they've treated other people, he'll be in jail by the end of it all. I don't doubt it. I'd probably end up there too.
Gah, I hate flying. I don't have much choice though. Driving to see family eats up 4 days total.
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ohheckyeah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 06:41 PM
Response to Original message
12. home of the brave....
not so much.
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zappaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 06:43 PM
Response to Original message
14. The kid set off the metal detector
I would want her frisked too.
At some point, terrorists will resort to children to carry out their bombings, so the parents of this kid should actually be thanking the TSA.
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druidity33 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. Do you have children? nt.
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zappaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. yes
And I would not raise a fuss if they were frisked.
Although I would wonder why they set off the alarm.
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druidity33 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #19
28. Have you seen the video?
DO you know the age of the little girl they "frisked"? Do you know what an "enhanced" patdown is?

:shrug:

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Ignis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #28
56. +1. Watch the video, and I doubt you'll be "thanking the TSA."
:eyes:
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druidity33 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #56
82. you probably
didn't mean to reply to me.

No hard feelings, i think we're both in agreement here...

:)

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Ignis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #82
88. Oops. The +1 was for your comment; the "you" wasn't really you, however.
:blush:
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2banon Donating Member (794 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #19
65. seriously?
Edited on Fri Apr-15-11 03:49 PM by 2banon
You're that afraid? You don't mind having your kids frisked like a common criminal? (my description)

I'm in adament disagreement with your position. And I feel sorry for your kids. IMO you should be protecting them from this behavior not accepting it.

This is the kind of passive acceptance attitude that got us into this Orwellian state of affairs.

If we don't reverse this now, it will only get more and more draconian. How bad does it have to get before you've realized this isn't necessary for secruity or right to be processed in this manner?

edited for bad grammar.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #65
66. I'd like myself and my...
Edited on Fri Apr-15-11 03:51 PM by SDuderstadt
family to arrive safely. Surveys show roughly 80% of Americans regard these procedures as necessarily, however reluctantly.
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2banon Donating Member (794 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #66
77. Did you ever not arrive safely before TSA?
The percentage of going down in a plane due to mechanical or pilot error is so far greater..

the procedures TSA uses have never, ever (so far) saved us from a terrorist attempting to board a plane.

The cost economically is astronomical, the cost to our liberty and dignity is priceless.



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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #77
79. No...
hundreds of others didn't.

And, of course, you don't know that terrorists haven't been deterred by FAA procedures; you just assume it.

Sorry, not buying your argument.
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2banon Donating Member (794 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #79
89. When that happens, it'll be all over the "news" guaranteed.
I presume you are referring to events of 9/11. Not a single thing that TSA is doing now, would have prevented those events had it been in operation at the time.

Matter of fact, we have had airport security then as we've had since the "Skyjacking" years of the 70's established these procedures, far less draconian but still in effect.

You don't mind having your freedom of movement and personal dignity disrespected or viscerated - you don't mind Stazi procedures that we grew up learning to dispise and sneer at with contempt.


This is an interesting development in the American Psyche that I would never have believed could be possible.

You've just proven that notion wrong.

A very sad commentary, indeed.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #89
91. No one is allowed to bring...
4" knives onboard since 9/11. Duh.
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2banon Donating Member (794 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #91
95. wasn't allowed before 9/11 technically speaking
Metal detectors to detect weapons. Knives, guns or other weapons. That was the head-scratcher for me on 9/11.

In the early 70's we had a number of Cuban "Sky-jacking" (can't recall how many incidences at the moment- not that many but enough) which set the metal detector along with rules and regs of what isn't allowed when boarding. The knives should have been detected and confiscated with the system we had in place at the time.



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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #95
97. Knives with 4" blades or less...
were allowed pre-9/11. They no longer are. That is one change that has been made.

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2banon Donating Member (794 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #97
99. I see. but for that change in size, we needed to do all of this?
seems a bit radical to the extreme.

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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #99
100. We're not doing "all this"...
simply because of 4" knives.
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2banon Donating Member (794 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #100
104. In agreement.
It was never about the 4" knives.
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coalition_unwilling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #66
145. 70% of Americans believe that angels exist. Doesn't mean they
actually do exist.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 11:04 PM
Response to Reply #145
146. That's hardly the same thing...
dude.
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coalition_unwilling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-17-11 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #146
151. What I meant was that
Edited on Sun Apr-17-11 11:21 AM by coalition_unwilling
just because, to use your figures, 80% of Americans believe the enhanced security is 'necessary' does not necessarily mean it actually is necessary or contributes one bit to increased airline security, just as the fact that 70% of Americans believe that angels actually exist does not necessarily mean that angels exist.

On edit: what's with the 'Dude' ending? The tone makes your posts come across as snarky and condescending. If that's your aim, you achieved it but maybe at the expense of shutting down discussions.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-17-11 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #151
155. "shutting down discussions"
A common rationalization on DU.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #14
20. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. It is not unconstitutional...
there are exceptions to the 4th amendment. Security checkpoints are one of them.
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alstephenson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #14
21. Really???
Wow.
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kath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #14
26. So WTF is wrong with the old method of what they would do if you set off the metal detector? You
take off your belt, or your watch, or your hair clip, or your bracelet, or take the change out of your pocket (or various combinations of these) and go through the detector again, or even a third time if necessary (after you've shed another item or two) UNTIL THE DETECTOR NO LONGER GOES OFF - how freakin' goddam hard is it for them to do that, rather than groping everyone's genitals and chest??!?

"the parents of this kid should actually be thanking the TSA." -- !! WHAT. THE. FUCK. WHAT. THE. FUCK. WHAT. THE. FUCK...
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. I have been through the...
enhanced patdown several times. I was not "groped" any of those times.
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pecwae Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 05:17 AM
Response to Reply #27
36. Are you 6 years old?
A small child has much different sensibilities about being touched by strangers. What is it about that that you don't understand?
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #36
40. Molestation isn't age-specific n/t
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reggie the dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #40
44. you are correct,
but you were also molested
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #44
45. I wasn't...
"molested".

Much of this outrage is, frankly, simply exaggerated.
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reggie the dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #45
51. what did they touch with the back of their hand
if i touch one of my students tits with "the back of my hand" i suppose that would be fine too, so long as i thought she had drugs, or a bomb in her bra.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #51
57. Learn to read...
dude.

I said the "area around it". "area around it" = they didn't touch it.
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reggie the dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #57
73. why the hell to they have to feel inside our pants
or those of our kids? her hand was up high between the litte girls legs, that is fucked up and not befitting treatment for free people. i will fly from london to chicago, but i will drive from chicago to florida and back this summer, then fly back to europe because the boats take too damn long.
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woo me with science Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #57
113. Then you didn't receive the enhanced patdown, "Dude." nt
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #113
115. Yes...
I did. Since you weren't there and I was, I think I'd know what I got.
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woo me with science Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #115
116. They didn't touch your junk, "Dude."
You got lucky, "Dude."
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #116
117. I've been subjected to it several times...
I already explained how it was conducted. Exaggerating the procedure doesn't aid the debate.
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woo me with science Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 07:14 PM
Response to Reply #117
119. Who's exaggerating? YOU said they didn't touch your junk.
Are you claiming other people don't have their junk touched, "Dude"?
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #119
120. This is getting silly....
let me know when you want serious debate.
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woo me with science Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #120
121. Why, "Dude"? I asked you a simple question.
You said they didn't touch your junk, as though that's an argument. Is it your argument that people aren't getting their junk touched, "Dude"?
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #121
122. The term "junk" is silly...
Beyond that, how many enhanced patdowns do you think are performed daily? Given the large number of flights and travelers, doesn't it strike you as odd that there are only a handful of complaints?
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woo me with science Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #122
124. Is your argument that most people aren't getting their penises and scrotums and vulvas touched?
or are you claiming that they just don't mind it?

(Was that a better way of asking the question, "Dude"?)
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #124
125. I'm suggesting if it is as intrusive as claimed...
there would be far more frequent and numerous complaints.
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woo me with science Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #125
126. Hey, "Dude, " when you say "...if it is as intrusive as claimed..."
are you doubting that it's common in these patdowns to touch people's penises, scrotums, and vulvas?

or are you saying you think people don't really mind having their penises, scrotums, and vulvas touched by TSA agents?
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 07:33 PM
Response to Reply #126
128. I'm saying some people are exaggerating...
it.
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woo me with science Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #128
129. "Some" people are exaggerating "it."
That's real vague, "Dude."

How many is "some"?

More importantly, what are they exaggerating?

Do you mean they exaggerated how upset they got when someone touched their penis, scrotum, or vulva? Like, they weren't really that upset, "Dude"?

Or do you mean they exaggerated how much their penises, scrotums, or vulvas were touched?

How much touching of their penises, scrotums, and vulvas should they be fine with, "Dude"?

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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #129
131. Like I said, dude...
let me know when you want serious debate. This ain't it.
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woo me with science Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #131
132. I'm very serious, Dude.
You are the one claiming they exaggerated, but you won't answer my questions about how.

If you dislike putting your argument into words, you might think about why...

Dude.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #132
133. No, you're not, dude...
sorry.
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woo me with science Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #133
134. Bye, "Dude."
:hi:
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LanternWaste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #45
60. As is the righteous defense of the TSA
"Much of this outrage is, frankly, simply exaggerated..."

As is the righteous defense of the intrusive regulations.
(Six of one, half a dozen of the other...)
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #60
62. Sorry...
I think keeping airline travel as safe as possible is important. Intrusiveness is a necessary trade-off, but, having been subjected to both the scanner and enhanced pat-downs many times, I believe many here grossly exaggerate their intrusiveness.
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2banon Donating Member (794 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #62
90. Just curious, are you under the age of 30?
I'm trying to figure out if this a generational gap in our understanding of personal dignity and freedom, a pat down not considered intrusive is interesting to me.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #90
92. Show me where I said it wasn't...
intrusive.
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2banon Donating Member (794 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #92
94. You say you don't mind the intrusivness.
I'm paraphrasing. I intrepret that you're willing to put up with the intrusiveness in exchange for safety. (another paraphrase).. Do I misunderstand?
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #94
96. I never said I don't mind the intrusiveness...
I said I believe it is grossly overexaggerated. I also said I believe it is necessary, although I wish it were not.

I simply don't buy the argument that we shouldn't erect as much deterrence as is reasonably possible. To those who argue that the risk is so minimal or that the procedures are not effective, that's like saying that so few women who take birth control pills, nonetheless, get pregnant that women really don't need to take them.
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2banon Donating Member (794 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #96
98. ok.. I understand better..
It seems to me there is a sort of "generational gap" on some matters, like this one. My daughter doesn't mind it either, and I now I have two very young granddaughters and they go off to Holland/Europe every summer.

It simply breaks my heart that my granddaughters will be subjected to these procedures. They will never know a life of traveling with dignity and freedom. My daughter should recall it easily.. But for reasons I just don't understand, she feels the same as you.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #98
101. Blame the terrorists n/t
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2banon Donating Member (794 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #101
102. I don't buy it.. but I get it that you and my daughter does..
Terrorists have been around since the dawning of "civilization".

We let the fear of terrorism change our precious freedom and dignity to our collective detriment.

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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 12:11 AM
Response to Reply #102
105. I rather like living...
I suspect your daughter does, too. If you want to board a plane, roll the dice and see what happens, be my guest. Fortunately, you don't have right to decide that for everyone.
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2banon Donating Member (794 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #105
106. That's exactly what you do when any time you put your body in an aluminim tube with wings
It's a roll of the dice as it is..there's been far more fatalities & incidents of downed plane crashes due to mechanical or pilot error than terrorists plots. And You nor I have a say in that my friend, except to choose not to fly.

I'm not intending to pursuade you to reconsider your position.

I'm just sayin, TSA is a multi-trillion dollar rip off/scam that wage workers are paying for just to give a false sense of security, while processing people and their children in a very Staziesque procedure.

I find it beyond outrageous. but hey, that's just me. :hi:



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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #106
108. Multi-trillion?
The entire federal budget is $3.8T.

Beyond that, it's rather silly to claim the TSA is "Staziesque"(sic...hint: That organization was "Stasi"). Maybe you need to study the actual history of Stasi.
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2banon Donating Member (794 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-18-11 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #108
162. Eventually it will have cost taxpayers trillions ,,just like wars have..
So what if the current fiscal budget of TSA costs is only several billion (cough, choke)as if that was a paltry sum? Is it really that difficult for you to see that will eventually cost us trillions?

Yeah, it is quite similar to the East German (Stazi) security system. You think only so called "known terroists" get on the No Fly List?
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-18-11 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #162
163. LOL!
Edited on Mon Apr-18-11 11:56 AM by SDuderstadt
Why not simply admit you goofed when you said "multi-trillion"?

P.S. it's "Stasi", not "Stazi". If you're going to make a false comparison, at least try to get the name right.
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GoneOffShore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #92
127. The scanner? Really? You fly a lot right?
Good luck with upping your cancer risk every time you walk through the the aptly named Rapiscan (a Michael Chertoff product) or more popularly know as the Porn-O-Scope.

And remember those who are willing to give up essential liberty for a little security, deserve neither.
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reggie the dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #27
43. did someone touch your dick against your will?
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #43
49. No...
they used the back of their hand around that area, but didn't touch it.
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reggie the dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #49
50. they missed it?
it looks like the woman in this video put her hand between the girls legs. when cops have given me enhanced searches as a pre teen and teen the fuckers touched my dick and balls, one time i imagined it was a girl just to get hard and freak them out. they said i looked like a druggie because i was outside doing sports like skating and biking, but i only started to use drugs after years of being periodically serached like that just for riding my bike.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #50
58. She didn't touch the girl's...
vagina, dude.
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truth2power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #58
67. vulva. eom
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #67
69. Or...
that.
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demmiblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #58
68. Duh... the TSA doesn't do body cavity searches. n/t
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #68
70. I plead guilty to one count of...
Edited on Fri Apr-15-11 03:58 PM by SDuderstadt
saying "vagina" when I should have said "vulva".

Happy now?
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demmiblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #70
71. wth is a vulca? n/t
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #71
76. It was a typo...
wanna have a serious debate or just nit-pick?
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demmiblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #76
80. It is hard to debate someone who doesn't know basic anatomy. n/t
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #80
81. Then, don't "debate"...
fine by me.
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demmiblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #81
84. I feel no need to debate scientific terminology. n/t
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #84
87. No one is "debating" scientific terminology...
I made a mistake. You're being petty about it.
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gkhouston Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #68
78. Yet. n/t
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GoneOffShore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #68
130. Soon they will.
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pecwae Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 05:18 AM
Response to Reply #14
37. "Thank the TSA"??
OK, this is a statement I actually never thought I'd read here. Congratulations.
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reggie the dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #14
42. that is fucked up man
if terrorists wanted to do a bombing they would just blow up an arrivals termianl. are you scared to take the subway? terrorists ha, you got more chance to be killed in a car wreck due to a lighnting strike.
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KamaAina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #14
47. Usually when grownups set off the metal detector, they get wanded
Sheesh.
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Ignis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #14
55. Fear is the mind-killer.
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Amaya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #14
83. stop it
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Sen. Walter Sobchak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #14
111. what other strange adults do you encourage to touch your children?
Edited on Sat Apr-16-11 06:45 PM by Sen. Walter Sobchak
If that was me thirty years ago my father would have beaten the asshole to death on the spot,
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Angry Dragon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #14
112. ..........
:thumbsdown:
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 11:07 PM
Response to Reply #14
147. What a load of garbage.
These fascist thugs are a far worse threat then some "terrist" boogyman.
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Liberal_in_LA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 06:46 PM
Response to Original message
16. When the 'enhanced pat down' was introduced, many passengers reported such threats
Asking to talk to the supervisor brought threats from supervisor that they'd miss their plane or bring further trouble upon themselves. Clearly these threats are a tactic, probably initiated by management, to limit protests.
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shanti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #16
34. exactly
well, screw the planes, i won't be taking them anymore. there are other options.
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Sen. Walter Sobchak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #16
114. I had a TSA supervisor in Seattle cover for the screener who had just stolen my iPod
Chick stole my iPod, I demanded the police be summoned. the "Red Shirt" sent the thief on break, refused to identify her and refused to expedite the police.

Abuse of power is deeply ingrained in the culture of the TSA, it is the only reason most of those shitheads want the job.
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woo me with science Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-19-11 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #16
164. There was a formal threat to the whole country before Thanksgiving.
Remember, they said that any resistance could be grounds for fines of over 10,000 dollars and being detained?
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 06:53 PM
Response to Original message
22. How do you know the parents were...
threatened? Because they say so?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. Using your logic...
why don't you trust the TSA's speech?

I'll ask you politely once to refrain from even insinuating I am, in any way, a Republican, especially since I will be spending all day Saturday at a state Democratic Party function.
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reggie the dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #25
48. the TSA, like the DEA, the CIA
and the deparment of homeland security are all full of shit, that is why i trust the parents.

who do you trust about weed, the dea or the pot smokers in your family?
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LanternWaste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #25
61. The TSA, like Sarah Palin are always to be taken at their word
"why don't you trust the TSA's speech?"

The TSA, like Sarah Palin are always to be taken at their word. Any stories in conflict with their word should be dismissed as either exaggeration or fabrication. Any stories which assuage the actions of the TSA, the CIA, or Sarah Palin are most likely true... :shrug:
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #61
64. That's certainly not what I said...
nice strawman.
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blueamy66 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #25
138. And why do you TRUST THE TSA?
Edited on Sat Apr-16-11 10:17 PM by blueamy66
???

I had some fat old TS "agent" rub my boobs last year. What was I to do? Had to get to my fiance's father's funeral. I just shut up, took it and talked to my father in Heaven...the one that worked for AA for 40+ years. He's be appalled if he was still alive.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 10:16 PM
Response to Reply #138
139. Show me where I said we should...
my concern is automatically accepting the word of the parents without any fact-finding, especially given the misleading nature of the OP.
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blueamy66 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #139
140. 25. Using your logic...
25. Using your logic...
why don't you trust the TSA's speech?


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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #140
141. Read it again....
Perhaps "using your logic" threw you off.
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blueamy66 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #141
142. Perhaps you don't give a shit
about personal freedoms.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 10:26 PM
Response to Reply #142
143. Perhaps you've jumped to conclusions...
and resorted to a stupid strawman argument.
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blueamy66 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 11:42 PM
Response to Reply #143
148. And perhaps you don't give a shit
about personal freedoms.

Stick your strawman....

I'm waiting for my guy to get home on an airliner...haven't seen him in 5 days...but hey he didn't get groped...yet
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-17-11 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #148
149. Why, yes....
I've called for security checkpoints set up on every corner.

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reggie the dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #22
46. that works for me
any reason you have to call the parents liars? between citizens and cops i tend to believe the citizens
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #46
54. Dude...
read the mother's actual words and you'll see she stated the supervisor did not say anything; it was supposedly "non-verbal". I'm not accusing the parents of lying. I'm suggesting is "editorializing " in the retelling of the incident to make it sound ominous.

Maybe you should learn the facts before popping off.
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reggie the dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #54
74. they were intimidated by the body laugange of a cop
cops do that all the time to scare people, i think it gets some of them off
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #74
75. Except the OP...
implied the supervisor actually used those words and neglected to mention that the mother said it was "min-verbal".

That's highly misleading.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 07:46 PM
Response to Original message
30. Here's the actual quote from the mother...
that accompanies the video.

I did ask for alternatives, I asked for her to be rescanned. They just refused and said they were going to do what they were going to do. Selena Drexel said, adding that a TSA supervisor made it clear in a non verbal way that there would be trouble if the parents caused a fuss and refused to allow the pat down to be completed.


Wait a minute. Whose words are "there would be trouble" and "caused a fuss" if the TSA supervisor didn't say anything?

Of course, this hardly matters to DU's shoot-first, ask-questions-later brigade.



http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=34959
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2banon Donating Member (794 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #30
93. You make a good point.. I didn't see that..
I did try to quickly read through it to find what specific action the TSA was threatening with. Was going to put that question to the author(but was distracted on the discusssion concerning procedure in general which I don't support) I do find misleading headlines either in posts, news editorials or articles very annoying.
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blueamy66 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-17-11 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #30
153. If one needs to get to another destination, what are they to do?
If they "fight" with the TSA, they're gonna miss their flight.

That is why I let the dipshit touch my boobs on the way to my fiance's parent's funeral.

Wait til it happens to you....
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-17-11 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #153
156. They can always file a complaint...
the fact that only a handful have been suggests this issue is being overexaggerated.
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blueamy66 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-17-11 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #156
158. before or after they miss their flight?
just asking
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-17-11 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #158
159. They don't have to miss their flight to...
file a complaint.

I'm done.
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blueamy66 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-17-11 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #159
160. When does one file a complaint?
Once they have been groped?

You're talking to a seasoned flier buddy....as a non-rev and a paying passenger....I grew up in the airline industry.

You're done....good....

It was fun having my boobs groped and keeping my mouth shut so that I could get onto an airplane to attend my fiance's parent's funeral. I knew I'd have to suck it up.

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Beam Me Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 11:15 PM
Response to Original message
31. stop flying n/t
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 11:48 PM
Response to Original message
35. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Dorian Gray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 05:46 AM
Response to Original message
38. He should be fired.
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BlueIris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 05:46 AM
Response to Original message
39. Now, now--these security procedures may be "uncomfortable," but they're "necessary."
So maybe those uncomfortable parents just didn't understand how necessary the frisking was.

Sickos.
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reggie the dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 03:10 PM
Response to Original message
41. the pigs mollested me plenty of times
when i was 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15 because i looked like a drug user while out riding my bmx or skating, so they had to feel my balls, make fun of me saying i had a small dick (which later women have told me is not true). i didnt actually use drugs until i was almost 15. i got so angry that the cops had the right to rub my dick and then make fun of me "for liking it" whatever that meant that i told them i was gonna start getting high just so that i would enjoy something seeing as i had to be mollested. to this day i fear the cops, that they once held a gun to my head and threatened to shoot did not help. if this shit ever happens to me and my daughter it will be our last trip ever to the usa and i will give up my nationality. i havent even bothered to ask for us nationality for my little 3 year old. she is fine being french.
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Shagbark Hickory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #41
107. The pigs rubbed my dick too. It's a right of passage! lolz.+!
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reggie the dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-17-11 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #107
152. no shit??? how old were you?
was it to look for weed like with me, when i was 11 and didnt even smoke. this is a pretty shitty right of passage
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csziggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 03:28 PM
Response to Original message
53. They advocate calling the TSA to complain - instead call the airline
To let them know why we will no longer be flying.

I'm lucky - I don't need to fly for business or to visit family. Someday I would love to go to England and Wales. But since that will not be possibly until after my knee replacements, I will not be going unless I can take a ship. I will absolutely not permit a stranger to grope me when my artificial knees set off the equipment.

The training of children to permit this intrusion is appalling - no government official should have the authority to insist on genital grouping of a child. As for threatening the parents who object - that should be instant grounds for firing.
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DainBramaged Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 03:57 PM
Response to Original message
72. I called at 4:55 and they had closed so you can't leave a complaint
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Citizen Worker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 05:01 PM
Response to Original message
85. Remember, "they" hate us for our freedoms. You know, the freedoms we used to have?
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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #85
103. If we don't have any freedoms then they won't hate us anymore.
Brilliant plan, ain't it?
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woo me with science Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #103
136. Re-election slogan! nt
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Angry Dragon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 06:40 PM
Response to Original message
109. The terrorists have won
Look at all the money we spend to defend ourselves from terrorists inside this country on top of the money we spend on military defense.
We fight among ourselves because we feel our freedoms are being taken away.
Wiretapping, frisking, torture, more.
We have become a third world country.
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 07:22 PM
Response to Original message
123. Unfortunately, the OP is not factual, and words -like "threaten"- actually mean things.
Now, first off, inevitably someone is going to assume this means I am defending the TSA or the enhanced pat-down of 6 year olds. I'm not, and this whole 'security theater' crap is out of control. If it was actually making us safer, that would be one thing, but it's not.

Now. That said, if you follow this back to the actual, original story, what the mother said was that the "TSA supervisor made it clear in a non verbal way that there would be trouble if the parents caused a fuss and refused to allow the pat down to be completed."

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/tsa-frisks-year-parents...

Sorry, but 'making it clear in a non-verbal way' is not the same thing as 'threatening' or 'warning not to make a fuss'.

Let's try to stay accurate and not play telephone with the story through several iterations of Alex Jones/Infowars affiliated bloggers, eh?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 07:48 PM
Response to Original message
135. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Prometheus Bound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 09:58 PM
Response to Original message
137. I think this other DU thread is relevant to this one.
Dr. Bob Altemeyer's - The Authoritarians - studies on authoritarian personalities & their followers
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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sudopod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-17-11 12:32 AM
Response to Reply #137
150. LOL, you read my mind brother.
Edited on Sun Apr-17-11 12:34 AM by sudopod
Everyone, please note that the book title isn't meant as an insult. The book is simply illustrating that there are certain personality types, the owners of which can often be perfectly good people, which are susceptible to the siren song of centralized power.
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woo me with science Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-18-11 01:44 AM
Response to Reply #137
161. +1000000000 nt
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-17-11 12:51 PM
Response to Original message
154. What next? "Watch out! That diaper looks loaded!"
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