Does anyone really know just how MUCH the government has taken from the Social Security Fund?

[Donnachaidh]

Simpson made some snide point during an interview about the vault being filled with IOUs. So does anyone really know how much the government owes the TAXPAYERS?

We're ready to put the poor out on the street in order to keep paying loans taken from China -- but how MUCH and WHEN are those IOUs going to be paid back?

This is something everyone should be asking, in light of the potential *sacrifice* we're going to be asked for.

[leftstreet]

1. kick for answers

There are some DUers who've posted about this but I can't remember off the top of my head

[Donnachaidh]

4. I'd really like to know if the answers are out there, or if we need to start demanding answers

Really -- WTF?

It's okay to be deadbeats in terms of paying US back, but we have to cut social programs in order to pay back foreign investors?

[leftstreet]

9. Maybe the Obama Administration could put together a Commission...

Then, armed with the figures, the Democrats could launch a massive PR campaign


:o

[Hannah Bell]

2. yes, to the penny; you can get the number in the ssa reports every year.

or by looking at the historical data from cbo.

or here:

http://www.ssa.gov/oact/progdata/funds.html

[sinkingfeeling]

3. $2.6 trillion

"Social Security Administration Trust Fund Data". Social Security Administration. http://www.ssa.gov/oact/progdata/assets.html. Retrieved 2011-03-21.

[shraby]

5. I have no idea, but the IOUs are probably redeemed as needed

to cover what is needed for payouts to recipients.

[Donnachaidh]

7. I'd have to see actual proof of that happening

People who have sticky fingers in the till -rarely- pay it back.

[Warren Stupidity]

21. it has been happening for the last two years

as there is a temporary shortfall caused by the recession.

Here, please examine the line named "Dispositions in 2010"
http://www.ssa.gov/cgi-bin/transactions.cgi

p.s. they want you to believe the money has been stolen, that way they don't have to pay it back.

[rfranklin]

6. Everybody who buys a treasury bill is getting an IOU...

so what? It needs to be paid back. I don't think you would hear those who have Treasury Bills in their portfolio thinking of them as worthless IOUs.

[Donnachaidh]

8. I'll bet those treasury bills get paid back a long time before WE do.

:eyes:

[BlueJac]

10. Pay Back Social Security

-- The Government Has Borrowed More from Social Security than any Other Entity or Foreign Government

Another argument made by Social Security opponents to raise fear about the national debt is how much our government has borrowed from China. They never mention how much our government has borrowed from Social Security. In fact, the government has borrowed more from the Social Security surplus than it has from any other source in the world, including China. As a result, Social Security now "owns" nearly 18 percent of the federal debt, making it the largest single holder of US debt. The government owes almost twice as much to Social Security as it does to China and Hong Kong.

Why aren't the opponents worried about paying back Social Security -- why aren't they talking about repaying this debt to the American people?

According to the U.S. Treasury Department's "Monthly Statement of the Public Debt of the United States" (9.30.10), the total debt was $13.562 trillion and was held as follows



http://institute.ourfuture.org/blog-entry/2011041406/pay-back-money-borrowed-social-security

[Mojorabbit]

17. This is very well written! Thanks! nt

[glinda]

22. Agreed!

[SDuderstadt]

11. By federal law SS account surpluses...

must be invested in U.S. Treasury securities. Do you think the government should pay interest on it without using it?

[Cleita]

12. They haven't taken anything other than the fact

that the SS fund buys Treasury Bonds as an investment. Since T Bonds are among the highest rated by the Bond Market because they are so low in risk, I see this as a made up issue. China's "loans" are also T Bonds that they buy from us. When the bonds become due, our Treasury pays them, hence the debt but usually the investors buy new bonds. The real sacrifice is going to have to be to raise taxes on the billionaires club. Frankly, they won't even miss the money because they can't really spend that much over what they are glutting themselves with today.

[AngryAmish]

13. The correct answer is all of it.

[Indydem]

14. Absolutely NOT

Prior to the early 1980s, the government didn't even issue the IOUs. Any surplus in the SSA fund was just spent.

No, politicians of all parties have been pilaging the SS contributions for 80 years and we are the pawns who got taken for a ride.

[SDuderstadt]

16. Can you provide a source for...

your claims, please?

[Recursion]

15. "None" or "all of it", depending on how you mean

It's not like the trust fund is sitting on cash (that would be self-defeating). It purchases government bonds and rolls the interest over.

[suston96]

18. The fact that this question is asked so many times means that......

....people are unfamiliar with how the system works.

Go here: http://www.ssa.gov/OACT/ProgData/fundFAQ.html#n4

There is only one US Treasury check book. ALL cash collected by the US Treasury is posted there and all outputs from the US Treasury are posted there also. That is the law. So though it looks like Social Security - and Medicare - and Social Security Disability trust funds are being spent it is not so.

Read the Q&A I and others have linked. Learn how the system works because, and this is a serious warning....

If we all don't understand how the system works, we cannot reply to those who still believe that Social Security, Medicare and Social Security Disability payments are causing the deficit.

They may look like they are because.....there is only one US Treasury check book......etc.

[Warren Stupidity]

19. All of it and none of it.

All of the SS fund has been "taken" in the sense that cash has been exchanged for t-bills. None of it has been "taken" in the sense that those t-bills are debt obligations backed by the full faith and credit of the government, as per the us constitution.

[damntexdem]

20. The government has taken nothing from the SS fund.

The Fund was invested in U.S. bonds. That was a bad decision; but it is still so invested. Any talk about not making good on such bonds constitutes: (1) theft; (2) failure to make good on debts owed; (3) a failure to back the good faith and credit of the United States; and (4) a threat to the international economic system, which depends on faith in U.S. government debt.