Truly EPIC EPIC EPIC Democratic Fail

[Tom Rinaldo]

Letting the mantel of fiscal responsibility be grabbed by the Tea Party and Republican Conservatives.
Even calling that an epic fails to capture the magnitude of that failure. Each and every Republican who opens their mouth to decry the growing deficit should immediately be laughed off the stage if they voted for or advocate continued increased tax cuts for the rich. They pound their chests and fight to cut 80 billion dollars in expenses one day while brazenly calling for cutting 5 trillion dollars from revenue the next day. Then they blame Democrats for not caring about balancing the budget. And they still get taken seriously and treated as sincere advocates for government living within its means, even by the President.

That in nonsense, that is lunacy. That is as blatant a con job as stores that hike prices 100% and then hold 50% off sales, and EVERY American knows enough about balancing a check book to know that Republicans are blowing smoke when they claim the key to fiscal solvency is simply tightening the belt on spending. Americans know about having fixed expenses. They know what it feels like when the knife hits the bone, and before they let that happen they scramble to generate more income; even if it means the sacrifice of having to work extra days each week.

And even if no additional work can be found there is one thing NO American family will resort to after they already eliminated lunches and still can't make their mortgage. They won't ask their employer to please reduce their hours at work and voluntarily cut their income further.

The entire Tea Party premise is a FARCE but Democrats are going along with taking that gibberish seriously. And so we "negotiate" with our backs to the wall. Never before in my life time has the Democratic Party ot any level, local state of federal, ever approached negotiations on budget shortfalls agreeing to keep all talk of revenues OFF the table, only program cuts can be considered. I have NEVER seen that, until now. But it's even worse than that. Republicans are merely chided when they continue to call for further cuts IN REVENUE. Sure, Democrats start out opposing it but Republicans manage to get it onto the table. So now we bargain with Republicans demanding more huge revenue AND service cuts. Will the Democratic counter off end up agreeing to huge service cuts only?

[ReturnoftheDjedi]

1. The Tea Party will not last long in American Politics.

Especially as the demographic shift currently occurring begins to become clear.
Old Teabaggers will die as they are replaced by young Minority voters.


In our lifetime, we will witness the slow death of the GOP.

[TheKentuckian]

2. If we continue to cede ground and assimilate positions, it makes no difference.

They'll be successfully re-branded as Democrats. Being the same as Republicans with some reduction in theocratic bent and less bigoted and racist doesn't work for me.

[Tom Rinaldo]

3. I don't know how old you are

but if you are below 40 it won't matter what happens to the GOP in your lifetime. The economic forces behind the GOP will abandon their American home bases in your lifetime and will concentrate on Asia. The damage being done in my lifetime, and I'm 61, will put this nation a hole too deep to ever fully climb out of. Yes minority voters will inherit this country along with younger more progressive voters. But it will be like the Socialists taking control of Portugal, the barn door will be locked and the horse will long be gone.

[ReturnoftheDjedi]

4. sorry, I can't buy into your pessimism.

[Tom Rinaldo]

5. I'm not by nature a pessimist

I almost always believe things can be turned around, and to an extent they always can, but to what extent? Meanwhile nothing can be turned around as long as the wheel stays frozen in the current direction. It's called a death spiral. Inevitable? No, but that is the course swe are on.

[ReturnoftheDjedi]

8. Egypt was under the rule of a Dictator for 30+ years and was completely changed in 2 weeks.

Never underestimate the power of People moving together.

[former9thward]

14. And now it is under a military dictatorship.

Things have not changed in Egypt if you have been following the news.

[sabrina 1]

83. Things have changed in Egypt. They got rid of the dictator

now they're working on the dictatorship. They will succeed just as they succeeded in getting rid of Mubarak. No one was under any illusions that ridding the country of the dictator was all that was needed.

The fact that they are still out there every week demonstrates how determined they are. And how well they know they have only just begun.

No sensible person thought that Mubarak's regime would be gone overnight. It will take time, but they've made an excellent beginning.

We haven't even made a dent. Opening investigations into war crimes would have been a start. Going after the Wall St. crooks would have helped also, but we are nowhere near as far along as the Egyptians are to recreating the democracy this country started out to be.

[riderinthestorm]

93. That is a most optomistic spin on Egypt's situation at present.

The PTB are currently in control of a military junta that is determined that the old normal, is the new normal. Protesters are routinely cleansed of Tahrir Square with FAR SUPERIOR military forces while the US and other western powers look benignly (or not so benignly) on....

False optimism does no one any good.

[sabrina 1]

96. Well, people said it was optimistic to think they could oust

Mubarak also.

They are going to have elections and we'll see how that goes. The military was accepted only on a temporary basis. Unless they want more nationwide strikes and a complete collapse of their economy, wiser heads will do what they did when they finally convinced Mubarak to go.

Of course it won't be easy. But it won't be easy for the regime either and the more violently they behave, the greater the support will be for them to go.

Dismantling a brutal regime is difficult but they no longer have the control they once had where fear was used to keep the people under control. The dynamics have changed completely. But old habits die hard so they resort to their old ways and only anger the people more.

I have faith in the people. No one thought the American Revolutionaries could prevail against the most powerful Empire on earth at the time either. But they did.

It's not unprecented for a people to completely overturn a brutal regime, but it's never been done in two weeks as far as I know and anyone who thought it could be was bound to be disappointed.

[IDemo]

15. Has it really changed completely?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110409/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_egypt

By MAGGIE MICHAEL, Associated Press Maggie Michael, Associated Press – Sat Apr 9, 4:10 pm ET

CAIRO – Thousands of demonstrators barricaded themselves in Cairo's central square with burned-out troop carriers and barbed wire Saturday and demanded the removal of the military council ruling Egypt, infuriated after soldiers stormed their protest camp overnight, killing at least one person and injuring 71 others.

In a sign the confrontation could escalate, the military warned Saturday evening that it will clear Tahrir Square of protesters "with all force and decisiveness" for life to get back to normal.

The warning could presage a repeat of the scene before dawn, when hundreds of soldiers, including a highly trained parachute unit, swarmed into Tahrir Square, firing in the air and beating protesters with clubs and shocking some with electrical batons. Troops dragged away protesters, while others staggered away bleeding from beatings and gunshot wounds. Witnesses reported two killed, though the Health Ministry insisted there was only one death.

"It was like a horror movie," said Mohammed Yehia, an activist and university student from the Nile Delta who was among the protesters.

[spooked911]

104. Tantawi is Mubarak and Mubarak is Tantawi; Bush is Obama and Obama is Bush

meet the new boss, same as the old boss

[WinkyDink]

18. Really? Let me know when the common man's lot is measurably improved there.

[JVS]

62. That remains to be seen.

[pscot]

13. That response suggest

that you don't understand what's being done to us in the name of "free" market, corporate capitalism.

[PurityOfEssence]

50. Here's a Bay Area term from the eighties: Virtuecrat

It was used as a rebuff against those who slapped down criticism as stemming from an inferior mindset like "pessimism".

It was also used as a retort to those who touted their moral beauty to claim some sort of superiority to other positions; this is the kind of righteousness that the current pro-war bunch uses against anti-interventionists: "we're so sweet and dear that we just can't stand by as those hundreds of billions of innocent unarmed civilians get mowed down by Satan himself".

Accusations of an overall mindset used as a blanket dismissal for a person's contention is disrespectful to the whole community, not just to the individual who's being labeled into irrelevancy.

You've been treated with respect and care; response in kind would be the recourse from a civilized sort.

[JDPriestly]

67. ReturnoftheDjedi, if you can't buy into that pessimism then

you need to read Matt Taibbi's book, Griftopia which tells the story of the enormous swindle that Wall Street and huge corporations have perpetrated on the US.

We have been robbed big time, and as long as we elect people like Barack Obama or John McCain the rest of the corrupt bunch at the top of the barrel, we will continue our plunge into destitution.

Please read that book if you don't read anything else this year.

No. I don't get a commission. No. I never met the author. It's just the best book of the year in my opinion.

[chervilant]

126. Along with

Shock Doctrine, by Naomi Klein. More of us need to be aware of the Corporate Megalomaniacs' war against the hoi polloi. More of us need to realize that the wealth carrot meme is just a massive illusion to keep us deluded, AND playing THEIR game for THEIR benefit.

[rhett o rick]

98. Your argument is mind boggling. nm

[humblebum]

105. I certainly buy it because it's already headed to Asia.

Capital that used to be made in the US is now "Made In China" and other nations. The political clout always follows the money. the Dems have squandered chance after chance to turn things around and yet we are still a country bringing in workers and exporting good jobs. It doesn't take much to figure out where that road leads.

[kenfrequed]

110. facts speak for themselves

No amount of silly positivism, even if it supported by a long term eventual victory, will make up for the damage done now.

This will be another Clinton deal where the Reagan era republicans (and Reagan Democrats) create a massive deficit and then we have to cut our own throats in order to cover the check.

[Exilednight]

9. Well, I learned a hard lesson this morning about

progressives and liberals. I put forth an idea to try and organize a more progressive/liberal arm of the Democratic party, much in the same fashion that the Tea Party organized a more conservative part of their party, but only four or five people responded and no one showed much enthusiasm to help build such a wing.

This party is full of self pity and no do it yourselfers.

[WinkyDink]

20. Maybe we don't feel like ceding the Democratic Party to its current leaders.

[Exilednight]

25. Many already did, but I'm not going to roll over and play dead. n/t

[RaleighNCDUer]

71. Didn't see it, but if I may ask -

were you trying to rally the left behind the current administration? The center-right, corporatist, DLC administratioin?

If so, that might have been your problem.

OTOH, if you were trying to get a consensus for a progressive primary challenge to Obama, that might have been your problem.

Thing is, we just want Obama to be what he advertised himself to be - an anti-corporatist (remember all that anti-lobbyist talk?) center-left Democrat.

[Mosaic]

92. No balls

He has no balls to be what he sold himself to be. The whining of the tiny click of teabaggers gets media ratings, and Obama's sympathy, so once again greed fux the day, and the country.

[Exilednight]

106. None of the above. If you want t see what I wrote, I will PM you the link to the thread. n/t

[KoKo]

119. We had that when Howard Dean was DNC Chair and a thriving Progressive Net Roots....

That was undone by TPTB and Dem Establishment. The enthusiasm and work is now underground building in a different way. There are many DU'ers who were hugely active and here on this board. Many are now lurkers, many under the granite and others who still try...but no movement will be done on the open again, imho. Too many watchers who then will corrupt.

We have to do more locally and in "targeted ways." There is quite a bit of discouragement on the part of the "first wave" progressives for change. That's also a huge factor around here.

[xxqqqzme]

122. If you are not organizing locally,

then you will see no results. Our local Dean For America(now DFA) has taken over our county Democratic party. We are the biggest delegate contingent at the California Democratic Party Convention. We are electing progressives to city councils and local school boards. You have to have that local base or you are just spinning your wheels.

All politics is local - believe it.

[ProSense]

11. Democrats have been talking deficit for decades.

Clinton did it. It led to the balance budget amendment. Feingold is a deficit hawk. This is not something new or Republican.

The fact is that the measures Clinton took to balance the budget in 1996 would be woefully inadequate given the size of the current debt.

The President is trying to balance deficit reduction with spending. To abandon any attempts to reduce the deficit would be completely irresponsible.

Not every deficit reduction plan is horrible. Reducing health care cost would reduce spending, and that's a really good thing.

Krugman: "Mr. Obama...has done more to rein in long-run deficits than any previous president."

[Tom Rinaldo]

16. Yes, and Clinton had the courage to raise taxes on those who could afford them

He fought Republicans tooth and nail over that part every inch of the way. Much like Republicans are fighting fo rtheir priorities today.

[Tatiana]

19. Clinton raised taxes on the wealthy. When is Obama going to do so? n/t

[ProSense]

30. Clinton Submits Proposal To Balance Federal Budget

Clinton Submits Proposal To Balance Federal Budget

<...>

The 20-page outline released Monday -- compared to the usual 2,000-page plus budget submission in a normal budget year -- was nearly identical to the offer Clinton put on the table the first week of January when he and GOP congressional leaders were still negotiating. Republicans charged the White House refused to make serious offers on the most contentious issues -- Medicare savings and tax cuts -- and called off the talks.

The outline projects the 1997 deficit will be $160.6 billion, up slightly from this year's estimated $154.4 billion shortfall. Beginning in 1998, the president foresees declining red ink until 2002 when he projects a $3.7 billion surplus.

As he did in his last offer, Clinton proposed to trim growth in Medicare by $124 billion, compared to $168 billion in the last GOP plan. He would save $59 billion in Medicaid, compared to $85 billion in the GOP plan. Domestic spending other than entitlement programs would be trimmed by $297 billion, about $51 billion less than the GOP would.

Clinton is proposing $98.5 billion in tax relief, mostly in the form of tax credits for parents, tax deductions for education and training expenses and breaks for small business. About $59 billion in corporate tax breaks would be eliminated.

<...>

[Name removed]

68. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ProSense]

128. Hmmmm?

"Is THAT a fucking success story?

Do you EVER think about what you cut n paste?"

Do you ever read before you respond?

Where did I say anything "a fucking success story"?

[ProudDad]

87. Clinton "balanced" the budget

by cutting social programs and the military...

And some real heavy duty book cooking...

And some luck...

Reducing health care costs would ONLY be possible by removing the profit motive from Health Care financing -- SINGLE-Payer and/or HEAVY government regulation of health care provision...

[rhett o rick]

99. Agree that Pres Obama is willing to reduce the deficit by cutting social programs instead of

defense or ending the Bush tax cuts. He is killing the middle and working class. But that's the goal of the corporatist DLC (read Koch Brothers)

[bread_and_roses]

111. The only "deficit reduction" we need is to tax the RICH & CORPS

"To abandon any attempts to reduce the deficit would be completely irresponsible." I'll tell you what's irresponsible. What's irresponsible is accepting the lying Oligarch framing that "balancing the budget" means gutting the commons - our schools, our infrastructure, every possible safety-net from food stamps to F&D regulation - while giving tax cuts to the rich and corps.

In fact, irresponsible is far to mild a word. It is unethical. It is also - literally - insane, as in totally detached from reality. It also totally ignores the will of the people and is a total betrayal of what the people elected Obama to do.

That he accepts and promotes this framing tells us everything we need to know about him and his administration.

[stockholmer]

73. great post, only thing to realize is the systemic controllers control BOTH parties

The Republicans set the Dems up in the 1980's by getting the public to believe that the cause of the exploding deficits were minor (in terms of cost) programmes that were also socially divisive. The Republicans then played their part by really pumping up the war machine.

Both parties by the mid 1990's knew that the costs for SS and especially Medicare were a ticking time bomb, given the way they looted the trust funds, as well as exploding health-care costs in th for-profit schema.

Then the Dems played their part by Clinton's pushing NAFTA, legalizing derivatives, and repeal of Glass-Steagall.

Then Bush Jr exploded the war spending, and co-opted Dems with his so-called ownership society and (along with Dems) ended up enabling significant fraud at Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac. This would not have been nearly as bad as it turned out, except now there were well over $100 TRILLION in dodgy derivatives attached to these tranches of junk mortgages.

Now, due to the 30 year mantra from the right labeling Dems as tax-and-spend, Obama is flaying around trying to shake that so-called label.

The Republicans meanwhile, blow huge holes holes in the deficit with $1.2 trillion a year war/security state spending, and BOTH parties not only do stop the bankster fraud, they BAIL THEM OUT.

[WinkyDink]

17. The Ghost of Barry Goldwater laughs at you.

[grahamhgreen]

37. But their policy positions live on, voiced by Dem leaders.

[Kablooie]

43. Kinda like the "Know Nothing" party of the 1850's.

[Honeycombe8]

58. I don't think so. I think we've witnessed the birth of a sort of new party.

Some of its members are young. Many are wealthy and middle aged. They're not old, by any means.

And they're scary.

[ReturnoftheDjedi]

70. But their numbers are dwindling. In fact, it is in direct response to this loss of power

that the Tea Party came to be.

It is the Party of Fading White Power.

They want their Country back,
but it is gone. There is a new Country growing in its place.

[Honeycombe8]

127. I've seen polls indicating their numbers are increasing.

I'd be delighted if they're fading. But I don't think that's the case at all. They have a large block of representatives directing the course of the old-stage Republicans.

Bachman, Trump, Paul Ryan....who in the country doesn't know those names? Big names.

[roguevalley]

65. but they will take us with them. If they were allowed to set the

story as Medicare is open to cuts and he let them, which he did, medicare is dead.

[RaleighNCDUer]

66. It doesn't need to.

The Nazi party only lasted 22 years, but that was long enough for them to destroy their country.

[cascadiance]

72. When it outlives the corporatists' usefulness much like the DLC, they'll let it die...

Once the corporatists had the Citizen's United decision as well as other avenues to corrupt the Democratic Party and keep their power in government, the DLC became less useful.

Once the tea party has been more exposed, they'll move on to corrupting the electorate in other ways. It's like companies such as Diebold and Blackwater changing their names when their sins become too visible. The corporatists will constantly "adjust" and switch gears to some place else, and it will take us that much longer to expose them when we don't control the corporate media like they do.

[Mason Dixon]

77. do you really believe

the entire republican party is white and will remain so and its end is based on an American white minority of the future. That's the most god damned racist remark I have ever read. And this op rails about epic failure but clueless as to how it could be.

[Wednesdays]

114. Pointing out the obvious is racist...huh.

Or, I must have missed all those hundreds of black and latino delegates at the last televised GOP convention?
:shrug:

[Enthusiast]

124. I hope minorities will recognize

the racism that is institutionalized in the Republican Party. I hope they will continue to vote against those racists in the Republican Party.

[Magginkat]

78. witness the slow death of the GOP?

I don't want to witness a slow death of the Gross Old P*icks. I want to see them
gone and soon. They are destroying this country from the inside out. They are
our own home grown terrorists.

[EstimatedProphet]

115. The tea party is on its way to becoming the dominant force in American politics

Reason being, they are getting a 100% 24/7 media spin rehab. The average person who doesn't have a clue as to how things work in politics theink they are just great, because they have been told to think they are just great.

[Taverner]

117. I keep hearing that, but I don't see it

The baggers are getting angrier, louder, more obnoxious and taken more seriously

I mean - I wish you were right - but I don't see the baggers packing up their shit and going away

[nashville_brook]

6. furthermore, it's a lie that deficits hurt the economy

[Tom Rinaldo]

7. Yes, they do not always hurt the economy

And yes that case should be made. But it blows my mind that the Democrats haven't even effectively made the far far easier case that deficits go up when income goes down.

[truedelphi]

45. You say:

deficits go up when income goes down.

Exactly.

And giving the rich tax cuts so they can give the middle class jobs is so 1950's.

It worked back then, as our steel mills were located in our heart land and in Pennsylvania, and our auto manufacturers kept entire cities employed.

We had textile mills in the South, we had paper mills in the North West.

Now we don't even have people growing our oranges and lemons, as the Brazilian citrus orchard owner can underpay people even more than the California or Florida orchard owner.

[snappyturtle]

84. Thank you!

[SharksBreath]

97. The argument that should make is that tax cuts for the rich

and corporations damage the economy and the debt.

History proves it.

Despite every lie the Republicans repeat.

[Exilednight]

10. Deficits can hurt the economy, and sometimes they can help the economy. Keynes

argues that it's fine to run deficits when you need to, but that we should also run surpluses when we can.

[chervilant]

64. Well,

there are deficits and then there are DEFICITS. With virtually every significant municipality, every school district, every borough, every small town across our nation bleeding rivers of red ink, we can safely say our rampant hedonism is hurting us.

[Exilednight]

107. We wouldn't be in the deficit mess we are in if it weren't for our military

actions. And we can't blame just one party, this was done in true bipartisan fashion.

[chervilant]

125. You are

so right. Well, mostly right. The machinations of the Corporate Megalomaniacs are fully realized in the acts of aggression promulgated by these vile profit-mongers. Another aspect of their hedonism is the massive tax cuts that benefit these very few at the expense of the very many. And, the 'two party' political system is now a ruse to keep the hoi polloi (us very many) deluded into thinking we still play an active role in our system of government.

[highplainsdem]

12. I agree, Tom. President Obama and most Dems in Congress are failing to frame the argument properly.

Take, for instance, the NBC/WSJ poll earlier this year showing that more than 80% of the American people favor raising taxes on the rich as the best way to start dealing with the deficit. (I don't have the link handy, but it's in my journal.)

I can't recall hearing a single Democratic politician mention that poll. It's as if taxing the rich has not only become the new third rail of American politics, it's one that can't even be mentioned.

It would be very simple to make a case that our deficits are due mostly to the decreased taxes on the rich. Krugman and Reich have made it often enough.

But Democratic politicians aren't making that case.

It's the right message for us. It's the one that not only resonates with voters, but solves the fiscal problems.

But our elected messengers aren't delivering that message.

[WinkyDink]

21. I'd say Reid's "congratulating" Boehner was an act of extreme pusillanimity.

[bluestate10]

24. Reid was handed a shit sandwich by the House. He did the best he could with

that mess. Reid ultimately manipulated Boehner to where he wanted Boehner. Why should Reid trash Boehner? Reid may need that village idiot again if Pelosi keeps allowing fucked bills to come out of the House.

[KoKo]

120. We've been hearing that "Harry the Boxer"...or "He did the best he could" crap for years

and it's always the same stale bread. Reid is there for one reason. He works for the TPTB.

[bluestate10]

23. The President does not craft bills, the House does that.

The failure to shape arguments and get bills that eliminate wasteful republican spending falls squarely on the shoulders of Nancy Pelosi and her leadership team. That team is losing the tactic and soundbite war. Get rid of people in the leadership like Claybourne, Van Hollen, Hoyer and get people like Weiner and Kaptur into democratic leadership.

[Tom Rinaldo]

26. Come now. Yes Congressional leaders have an important - yes constitutional role

But even Glenn Beck and Rachel Maddow shape arguments. Shaping arguments is a large part of what ANY President is expected to do. George W. Bush shaped arguments on Iraq, do you disagree? A Stete of the Union Address is nothing more than an annual formal shaping of arguments. No Presidebt has the formal power to initiate and shape legislation. They just have "influence". Do you think FDR and Reagan sat back while others shaped the arguments?

[bluestate10]

32. The President does not craft bills, the House does.

The priorities of democrats are clear. Wasteful spending that republicans support is obvious and has been that way for decades. The method of how riders are attached to bills is defined. The will to attach riders to bills is lacking among democrats, President Obama is not responsible for that lack of will, Nancy Pelosi is responsible. I blame President Obama for the December tax agreement, he could have allowed the whole thing to expire. But all the legislative fights where Reid and President Obama have had to intervene to stop the most egregious and toxic elements of bills from becoming law happened because nancy Pelosi and her leadership team in the House failed.

[highplainsdem]

27. The President has the bully pulpit. He has the greatest responsibility for framing the argument.

[bluestate10]

33. The House crafts bills. The President can either sign them or work

with the Senate to change toxic elements of bills. The failure to stop bills that are loaded with toxic social riders and to shape the type of spending cuts in a bill falls on the shoulders of Pelosi, Hoyer, Claybourne and Van-Hollen, those people are the key elements of the democratic House leadership team.

[PurityOfEssence]

55. That doesn't mean he has to sit back and wait 'til the bat-searchlight hits the clouds

A President has precedent and every right to go to House members and say: please send me something like THIS. He can go out on the road and stick his neck out and say WHAT HE WANTS.

The health care battle was disgusting. Obama hid behind Congress, never standing up for anything as he sent Rahm over there to step on the tongues of liberals and progressives to bully them into a "moderate" approach that wound up being a gargantuan mess.

Imagine how Lyndon Johnson would have handled that.

[sendero]

82. Wipe the drool off your chin..

excuses, excuses, excuses. Even a drooling fool like Bush didn't have to apologize to his base every five minutes, he GOT SHIT DONE.

[kenfrequed]

112. three posts with the same subject line?

Seriously, the man has a point, Great and Terrible presidents have managed to shape and form the debate around bills and create momentum. The failure to do so has been a long term stumbling block for this administration. Rahm and his gang that tried to play a minor legislative game, without engaging the American public and without actually moving legislators was a failure. President Obama's communication staff has been as bad at communicating successes as it has been at broadcasting intentions and firing up not just the base, but the American people as well.

They are too busy trying to stop the fight rather than trying to win it.

This republican attempt at fixing the budget doesn't fix it at all and is just an excuse to kick the poor when they are down and justify more tax breaks for the wealthy.

[RickFromMN]

34. I can't think of a single instance where President Obama used the Bully Pulpit.

I have to be wrong. I just have to be wrong.

Can people help list the times President Obama used the Bully Pulpit.

[stockholmer]

75. he used bully pulpit to sell Libyan 'war' for oil & 'arc of crisis destabilization' as humanitarian

:mad:

[ProudDad]

88. To extend the bush tax cuts...

Calling it the best deal he could get...

:hide:

[stockholmer]

74. the true 3rd rails- the war machine & private banking cartel led by the Fed,& they'll destroy the US

if they are not overthrown rapidly

[bluestate10]

22. I lay the blame squarely on Nancy Pelosi and her democratic House leadership

team. The team has no imagination and sense of how to pin republicans down. Allowing republicans to attach toxic social legislation to budget and spending bills without democrats attaching riders that will eliminate wasteful spending such as farm subsidies, oil depletion tax allowances, useless weapons systems that not even the Pentagon wants, is the height of cluelessness, IMO. Pelosi and her leadership team must sharpen up and give House democrats like Weiner and Kaptur freer reign to knife fight with republicans. If republicans attach a social rider to a spending or budget bill, democrats must attach to wasteful spending riders to the same bill. What is happening now is democrats allow republicans to bring toxic rider laden bills to the House floor for a vote, then democrats go into panic mode and lose the ensuing soundbite war. The mere fact the House democrats ever allowed republicans to take the mantel of national purse minders is insulting to even think about, it is an intolerable situation. Modern republicans are all about wasteful spending as long as that spending is directed to their constituencies.

[PurityOfEssence]

61. Make all reality bend and warp to fit the pre-determined truth that Obama is the brave champion

Pelosi is the one responsible for getting health care--fucked up though it was--rammed through, while Obama kept himself above the fray and preserved his image.

She's fighting a day-to-day battle with the scheming troglodytes of neo-feudalism and she makes many mistakes, but she fights, and that's more than can be said for our President.

The net result of the blaming everybody to protect Obama is to undercut those elements who ARE trying to do something progressive. All effort is being spent to protect the guilty party, and the heroes take the heat.

It's truly amazing how much people think we OWE this man. It's our sworn duty to basically destroy anyone who tarnishes his transcendent image, regardless of what he DOES. The whole republic can come crashing down around our ears, but that's okay as long as the dream can be kept alive.

Not cool.

[bvar22]

28. Failure by design.

Obama has put his Seal of Approval on the Republican Plan for America:

The RICH deserve MORE money,
and The Working class & The Poor should pay for it!
----co-signed by President Obama & the "Centrist" Dem Leadership

Obama did NOT oppose the Republican Plan In Principle.
He merely dithered about How Much MORE the RICH should get.



"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans.
I want us to compete for that great mass of voters that want a party that will stand up for working Americans."
---Paul Wellstone

[robdogbucky]

31. He merely

continued on the new path, to de-emphasize President Barack Obama's pledge.

A broken bone cannot heal if it is not allowed to remain stable for a set period of time. He keeps slapping me on my healing bones, re-fracturing them.

[hfojvt]

29. I think the fail was in December, not now

That is when Obama flipped and started cheering for tax cuts for the rich instead of fighting like poor people and the deficit actually matter.

[Tom Rinaldo]

35. I was upset then and still am, but...

Do you notice how Republicans never let No stand as an answer? When Bush first proposed his tax cuts it was because there was a surplus and the government had no right to hold onto all that money. Then when the deficit disappeared it was all about stimulating the economy (Republicans are always all for stimulating the economy with tax cuts). Circumstances change but the objective remains the same. Hell, not only do circumstances change, but they use any change in circumstances as an excuse to seek their same objectives.

Nowadays Republicans "lost" the battle over health care reform. But they don't ever simply take that No for an answer. Killing "Obamacare" made it into their budget bill as riders. They may have given them up for now, but they got trade value for doing so.

The Democrats could easily take a page from that approach and say now, as they look toward the next budget year, it is clear that we can not wait to repeal the Bush tax cuts on the rich, not when so many poor and middle class voters are being asked to take devestating hits from the federal budget. Democrats can unilaterally push ending tax cuts for the rich onto the bargaining table. While it is true that they can't pass them without the support of the House, it is also true that Republicans can't force deep cuts in spending over the will of the Senate and the veto of the President.

So I guess I'm saying the fail might have begun in December, but it is continuing today.

[grahamhgreen]

36. RACIST!

:sarcasm:

[Avant Guardian]

39. I think Obama's 'deals' with the GOP have emboldened them

Hold this or that hostage and they get whatever they want.

[Logical]

38. You are correct! n-t

[avaistheone1]

40. Highly recommend.

Great OP!

:kick:

[MacNfries]

41. Tea Party a farce?

I honestly think Democrats and main stream Republicans are taking the Tea Party way, way too lightly. These people are highly funded, and have a focused agenda (unlike Democrats & Republicans) to rid the US of entitlements, anti-labor, lower corporate taxes, etc. They are strategically dismantling our established political system because they can. They just did it in North Carolina ... not posting positive ads for Republican candidates on the airwaves, but flooding the airwaves with negative ads against incumbent Democrats. Now that they have a Republican control of both State House & Senate (first time in over a hundred years), they are cutting programs right and left, with Democratic Governor Bev Perdue fighting them all the way. Two weeks ago they cut the Unemployment Extension program for people unemployed over 6 months. Those Republicans that got elected said they had no idea who was posting the TV ads but wanted to "thank them for their support".
Let's face it, if you have a limitless supply of money, and repeat something 100X more than your adversary, who do you think the public is going to believe and support? This all started back in January, 2010 when the cap on Corporate donations was declared unconstitutional by a Republican Supreme Court Judge. Its going to get worse, a lot, lot worse as state after state is taken over by Tea Party supported Republicans.

[Tom Rinaldo]

42. No THEY are not a farce, they are dangerous

What is a farce is any attempt to claim that the positions held by the Tea Party qualifies them to be called fiscally responsible citizens interested in reducing the federal budget. Their positions are exploding the deficit and there is nothing responsible about them.

[libmom74]

44. I'm starting to think

this isn't really a "fail", this was what was intended to happen by those that really matter (the owners of both parties). When polls are taken that sow what the American people actually want (Public Option over 68%, taxes rasied on the wealthiest over 80%, protect Medicare/Social Security etc...) neither party is respecting the will of the people.
Whenever any form of government becomes destructive it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it and to establish new government

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security."
Thomas Jefferson

[dotymed]

108. Whether it was "a fail" or not, we the people

DO have a constitutional obligation to stop the misrepresentation by both parties.
I am surprised that polls and their actual responses are allowed to be made public. I wonder how long before they become victims of "national security."

[kentuck]

46. Well stated.

They must believe that tax increases would have a negative impact on this struggling economy? However, there is no evidence that taxcuts have any impact at all, unless negative, because of the deficits they create.

[Tom Rinaldo]

47. Some case can always be made that spending cuts or tax increases can slow an economy

But the bulk of economists are FAR more worried about federal spending cuts that fall hardest on middle and working class Americans hurting economic growth than they are about targeted tax increases on those who's ability to spend is little effected by them. Most argue for INCREASED government spending.

I very much doubt that the monied interests funding Republicans are afraid that tax increases will hurt our economy. They fear they might siphon off a small piece of their profits. They will protect program cuts that attack government programs that they depend on - like the Pentagon and agricultural subsidies and other forms of cororate welfare, but they rest is simply not their proble,. But even more important than the effects of any specific tax increase, the elite are on an ideological roll right now, and they wuill fight anything that offers a contrary narrative. They will ride this "tax increases kill jobs" line all the way down America's crash before jumping off with golden parachutes prior to final impact.

But the absurd epic fail part of all this is that Democrats are JOINING with Republicans to slash the budget while keeping any effort to increase revenue - including obvious stuff like ending subsidies for Big Oil while they are raking in record profits - off the table and out of the equation.

[kentuck]

56. But just a precursory look at the last ten years....

would indicate that taxcuts did very little to create jobs or help our economy. To the contrary, with their adding to the national debt and the deficits, may have been a bigger drag than a lift? I think that argument could be made.

[Tom Rinaldo]

59. Of course that argument can be made

Republicans are just more committed to selling their myth than Democrats are to speaking the truth.

[PurityOfEssence]

48. It is more important to our President that he be seen as transcendent and bringing us together

than it is to stop the forces of evil.

He is literally incapable of calling them greedy economic monarchists and set about running the country with the understanding that there'll be no help from them EVER. The hero complex of being the one to bridge the divide is so great that reality doesn't stand a chance.

There's also another problem that people don't want to see: he's more one of them than he is one of us. Whether he thinks power blocs of huge dominant corporations and groups of them are "regrettably necessary", "unavoidable" or "an honorable force" doesn't much matter; he's NOT going to challenge them in any way at all. The forces of huge money are not only not under any threat, they are being reminded of their immunity.

Leftists are often just as given to the conservative mindset, too: inability to reassess a situation, inability to recognize or admit a mistake and unwillingness to take responsibility. The right smells blood. They will now take down every regulatory agency they don't like and continue with their social agendum of instituting religion. They KNOW they're right, and they see nothing but silly weakness in their way.

For them, this is a fine victory: they effectively get their way and can trumpet this triumph to their base while simultaneously shrieking of how the Socialists stood in their way; not only do they win huge in the short term, but they energize their base for more and have ample evidence of their ability to win. History also shows us that the downtrodden can easily be used to hurt other have-nots; the anti-unionism of today taps the same frustration that Reaganites used against affirmative action 30 years ago.

Even if he changed, it's too late. Conservatives are all about making up their minds, and these have been fully tucked in and the pillows fluffed.

[Tom Rinaldo]

53. I agree with you. Well said.

The unexpected gift the surging Right has been given is a sitting Democratic President who always seems willing to meet them somewhere past middle no matter where they set the markers, or how often they move them further to the right.

Besides the obvious what that does is validate the right wing narrotive that there isn't anything radical about their agenda. it's just reasonable people differing, working through their differences while seeking the ideal compromise. It becames nearly impossible for any other elected national Democrats to strongly critique those "negotiations" from the left of what is now center right politics sliding evenfurther to the righ. Obama is the clearly identified leader of the Democratic Party as our Presidential candidate heading into critical elections, can they afford to undercut him in puboic? Those who do stand up in oppozition from the left (former center) of the Democratic Party stand out, almost by definition, as being the radicals standing in the way of bi=partisinship "progress".

[KoKo]

121. Good points. +1

[L0oniX]

49. I think we have our own Bernanke, Summers, Paulson, Geithner kumbaya fest

[Enthusiast]

51. This huge "debt" is the result of

a Republican 'starve the beast' strategy.

You can't start two wars while simultaneously cutting taxes and reasonably expect a positive fiscal outcome. No one actually believes this, not even the most ardent 'supply sider'. They might pretend it was just a miscalculation. It wasn't.

This was not a matter of trickle down true believers making a miscalculation -the debt was the goal all along. This has allowed them to cry about the huge debt that "Obama" has caused. Now those responsible claim we must further cut taxes on the wealthy and end the New Deal as a means to cope with this debt. They make this claim after Dick Cheney said, "Deficits don't matter." just a short while ago.

This was INTENTIONAL and it was TREASON.

[kentuck]

52. I wish someone would say that to their face..

on national TV.

[Enthusiast]

54. I believe there is an agreement

that such a thing will not be said on national TV. It is an agreement similar to 'looking forward' on Cheney/Bush war crimes -all done at our expense.

[Tom Rinaldo]

57. Democrats like FDR, or even JFK would have.

Hell Ike would have. Todays national Democratic Party has shifted to the Rigfht of Ike's Republican Party - There are a number of exceptions to that but not enough.

[Poboy]

60. Recommend. We are on our own, abandoned, save for the charade.

[russspeakeasy]

63. It's like feeding bears. Eventually you think you know them and they eat you.

[stockholmer]

76. Man ska inte ropa hej förrän björnen är skjuten(dont celebrate till bear is shot)old Swedish proverb

:hi:

[DeSwiss]

69. K&R n/t

[pansypoo53219]

79. gotta PROVE to the stupids

it won't work. 2012 looks good. bushh tax cuts end and lets raise interest rates. PLEASE.

[jimlup]

80. Don't worry it is going to get worse. Much worse...

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but they are about to give away Medicaide and Medicare.

[Mosaic]

94. And lose tons of votes?

They can't get reelected if they do away with Medicare, etc. No amount of demagoguery and rhetoric will enable them to pull off the impossible. They'll cave like they always have because they love positions of power, the ideologues will get thrown to the curb just you wait and see. Jeez, internet chicken littles get on my nerves.

[treestar]

81. Why is it never the Republicans fault?

THey have Congress. The current situation is their fault. And the voters who put them there.

[Skittles]

102. OOOOOOH

what's this? That's hardly a rabid defense of Saint Obama. :o

[Ramulux]

85. Nailed it

By pretending like the republicans are honest people just trying to push an alternative view of economics, the democrats have destroyed their own ability to make their own case.

If you legitimize absurd, nonsensical conservative beliefs it makes it harder to push for actual liberal legislation. It seems like the most obvious thing in the world, but the dems just dont seem to fucking get it.

[bertman]

86. Just the idea of even admitting that the budget deficit is due to anything BUT the military

expenditures is insane. Has anyone heard President Obama say even once in a national appearance that we must cut our military expenditures or raise taxes if we are going to achieve deficit reduction?

[ProudDad]

90. EXACTLY!!! +1000

[snappyturtle]

89. K&R to your OP and replies as well. To.the.point. nt

[I Drink Water]

91. Its total insanity. The GOP just hijacked the American people over an inane manufactured crisis.

I am still having a hard time fathoming the fact that Dems just let GOP take Planned Parenthood, the EPA, and the American people hostage, especially during these times. There is so much else going and so much to fix, and PP and the EPA are not what is even remotely close to what is wrong with this country.

Someone should have just stopped and told the American people how batshit crazy this all is.

Its pure fucking insanity.

[upi402]

95. The folks who made the mess have blamed the ones cleaning it up

And the cleaners helped them do it, many of them. They let them call utter bullshit talkingpoints... 'adult' and took our interests off the table again.

[BigBearJohn]

100. GAWWWWWWWWWD! I WISH IT SAID THAT. NAIL MEET HEAD.

Right ON TARGET. phew. WELL SAID

[Skittles]

101. can I fucking say I TOLD YOU SO?

PLENTY of us saw through Obama during the primaries

[quaker bill]

103. You have lunatics in the room

holding loaded guns on the hostages. How do you not take them seriously?

Laughing off an isolated lunatic in congress is easy and done all the time. 80 of them acting as a group is another thing entirely.

The US House is where taxes and appropriations originate under our form of government. We, by not showing up at the polls in 2010, put these lunatics in charge of it. This meets the definition of serious. The President could put any tax proposal on the table you desired, it would never even make it into a bill, or if so, a bill introduced by the minority that would never even get a vote because it would have to make it out of a tea party controlled committee for that to happen.

They are elected, and they are going to do what they are going to do. At some point, government grinds to a halt. This was not the point when it happened, but there are at least two more points coming up before the election in 2012. It will get louder and uglier before this is done. It needs to play out the way it will play out. The inevitable crisis needs to happen much closer to the election, in the interim, we need to let them run fairly free and propose what they truly desire. This nonsense has to get out there, anger the liberals, and frighten the center.

They are ready to do it because they believe they truly represent a majority and will be loved for it. We need to give them the rope and see what they do with it.

The bottom line is not what the Democrats will do, it is what the voters will do, and it always was.

[TurningPointTime]

109. The democrats

suck ass at messaging? What else is new :P

[ewagner]

113. Gotta share this....

more and more we are seeing the outrage over these preposterous proposals and the bat-shit crazy rhetoric...

I'm posting your rant on my blog in hopes that others will see it...thanks.

[OwnedByFerrets]

116. Big K and R

[fredamae]

118. The answer is more simple than action:

The answer is that we must stop giving them relevance: The problem is that murdoch/kochs et al, poisoned the message and have been and will continue to Give them relevance and an appearance of having relevance and majority opinion. As long as the "teaconipubs" Don't allow themselves to consider the rest of us as "American People"? Then they aren't "really lying" in their "messaging" and humble opinion(s).
We have to figure out a way to message Without MSM. It can be done.

[mm44sas]

123. Obama is a Republican

He fooled everyone. He fooled me. He fooled you.

the Democratic Party is n not even a real party anymore. they are in fact in bed with a lot of the same campaign contributors that the GOP is.. and WORSE.

you have been had.. not just Obama.. but the WHOLE PARTY is far to the right.

that is why the democrats never stand up and fight.. they never say they are progressive, they almost never take the fight to the floor and filibuster the hell out things when they where the minority party..

there is one party in this country.. it is the Oligarchy and they OWN YOUR GOVERNMENT.

[MacNfries]

129. Eventually it had to happen ... but there is a solution to stop it!

No doubt that eventually this day was going to come, and one party or the other was going to have to be the fall guys. Democrats, to stay in office, had to continually give away the store in entitlements, etc. Republicans, to keep their fat cat supporters happy, had to continually give them tax breaks and exemptions. Toss in a few, expensive, wars, including the cold war of the 80's, and you have unsubstainable government. What happened to Russia could be coming to a theartre near you soon!

There is ONLY one way to fix the economic problems, and that is to drag these irresponsible politicians (ALL OF THEM) into the cesspools with the rest of us. Until they are impacted in the same way as regular Americans, they will continue ruining this great country. Politicians have built a great wall of ENTITLEMENTS around themselves called perks. Everything to them is FREE, courtesy of the ones they are drowning in the crapholes they build for us. THEIR entitlement programs, including their 8% automatic COLA, free healthcare, and retirement ... all need to be stripped away.

HOW CAN THIS BE DONE? How can we remove the very foxes we've put in place to guard our henhouse? These people have proven time and time again that they do NOT work for the American people.It seems to me, with the power of the internet, the common taxpayers could somehow build a voice to be reckoned with ... short of simply going up to Washington DC and dragging everyone of them out of the Capitol building and riding them out of town on a rail.