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What's happening in Wisconsin is a prelude to 2012

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Hugabear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 09:55 PM
Original message
What's happening in Wisconsin is a prelude to 2012
If they get away with outright voter fraud in Wisconsin, you can be sure this will be repeated in hotly contested states in 2012. This whole "oops, we just found several thousand ballots on a computer" cannot be allowed to set a precedent.
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villager Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 09:56 PM
Response to Original message
1. it's already been allowed, essentially without a peep
why should they change successful tactics now?
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robinlynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 09:59 PM
Response to Original message
2. election fraud. NOT voter fruad. VOTER fraud is virtually non-existent. It is a creation of
Rove, and Co. to justify taking away the right to vote creating voter IDs, scrub lists, etc. just a word, I know, but voter fraud is not happening here. election fraud.
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coalition_unwilling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #2
18. Thanks for making that distinction. Methinks you will have to
Edited on Thu Apr-07-11 11:18 PM by coalition_unwilling
make it many more times, sort of like Sisyphus rolling the stone up the hill. But it is definitely appreciated.

At root, Repukes no longer believe in the principle of 'one man, one vote.' They now believe that all votes are equal, but some are more equal than others. (That's the essence of the Repuke argument before the SCOTUS in Bush v. Gore 2000.)
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eowyn_of_rohan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 09:59 PM
Response to Original message
3. The precedent was set in 2000 and again in 2004 - where was everybody then?
And now - half the people on DU refuse to entertain the possibility of their elections being illegitimate. I swore in 2004 we would would NEVER let happen in Wisconsin what was going on in Ohio, where protests were pretty scant. I dont know what is wrong with people, but not enough have jumped on this bandwagon in the past 11 years.
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Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Yep. In Ohio, they shut the doors and kicked everyone out
to count the votes. Didn't they also have some kind of "terrorist alert" as well? Or was that the ruse? I am vaguely remembering the details here.
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eowyn_of_rohan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 10:21 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Ah yes! who can forget the "terrorist alert" on election night in OH?
That was in Warren county OH - a polling place was locked down due to Homeland Security issuing a #10 level terrorism risk...I have it all in my notes. Glad I saved them.
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Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Yet...there was no record of one being issued by Homeland Security??
Am I remembering correctly?
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eowyn_of_rohan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. As I recall, Homeland Security denied any knowledge of it
Please correct me if this is wrong, though.
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Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 11:31 PM
Response to Reply #14
20. That is what I recall too. n/t
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Raksha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. I'm glad you still have them in your notes too.
I had completely forgotten about that Warren County "terrorist alert" that Homeland Security had never heard of. That was shortly after I joined DU, because even Daily Kos wouldn't discuss election fraud in 2004.
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demodonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 10:08 PM
Response to Original message
4. Wake the hell up, people... some of us have been working on this for years...

...we need realistic solutions to protect EVERY vote in the United States with a paper ballot and a reasonable audit.

The answer is not 100% hand counted paper ballots or some "perfect" audit system yet to be devised. These things won't pass nationwide for decades. We can't afford to waiting for the "perfect" solution anymore. Incremental steps, and EVERYONE PAYING ATTENTION to election fraud is the answer.

The first incremental step is a voter-marked paper ballot for every vote nationwide. Do you all realize that over 25% of voters in this nation have NO paper whatsoever of any kind backing up their vote? A situation like WI in one of these paperless DRE states would be an unrecoverable disaster; with no paper at all you can't audit votes by human eyeballs and are totally at the mercy of some vendor's propriety software.

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glinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. we need paper backup for sure if not paper ballots
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eowyn_of_rohan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. People have been saying that for 10 years. So sad that we haven't made any progress. -nt
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demodonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 10:31 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Yeah, and one reason is because we aren't a united force to get this changed...

...some people have to have what they deem the "perfect" solution before they will support ANY change from the status quo. Realistic possibilities be damned. It has to be PERFECT, or nothing.

Others foolishly moved on to other issues after 2008, thinking that if Obama won all the problems with voting machines, vote counting, and voting systems must be over. WRONG!

As I said some of us have remained plugging away at this. We'd appreciate some (realistic) help.









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eowyn_of_rohan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 10:55 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. We attended protest after protest against the 2nd stolen election here in Madison yet
most were tiny little protests, and the biggest one drew only about 150 people . It really wears you down when nobody listens or cares.
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demodonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 11:07 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Protests don't work by themselves... you need them AND organizations working (lobbying) for change.
Edited on Thu Apr-07-11 11:07 PM by demodonkey

Some need to work within the system for change, some protest and raise hell... classic inside-outside strategy.

The recent Madison protests wouldn't have been nearly as effective without the Wisconsin 14.

Don't give up on this recount, for God's sake, whatever you do! Keep up the pressure from the outside (and keep pressure on the WI Dems keep it up from the inside!)

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eowyn_of_rohan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. I'm registered to help with the recount
I did it immediately when I saw this happening tonight. It is at least something I can do besides sit here and read and type. I did too much of that in 2000 and 2004 when I was too far away to help out!
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demodonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 11:19 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. Great! That's what we need!

Seriously. :-)

:yourock:

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eowyn_of_rohan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 08:22 AM
Response to Reply #19
22. I think most of us WANT to do something -but need an opportunity
Never thought (or hoped) this would come to my state, but at least it is an opportunity.
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Newest Reality Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 10:13 PM
Response to Original message
5. We should just lay down
and let the Supreme Board of Directors decide things in the new, America Incorporated. That will make things so simple and we can continue to live totally beholden to the the corporations who own and produce just about everything we need to live this modern lifestyle they sold us.

They make it and own it. We need, want, consume it. Either we stand up and throw off our mass delusion of what a good life is and should be, or we quietly give-in and let them do more of what they please. It is really a simple problem. Yet, the comfort of our own, Status Quo, stands in the way of what we might yearn for in the way of progress.
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msongs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 10:37 PM
Response to Original message
13. a testament to the failure of the democratic party to prevent fraud nt
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phiddle Donating Member (749 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 11:45 PM
Response to Original message
21. Yes, this was the dress rehearsal
Edited on Thu Apr-07-11 11:48 PM by phiddle
The performance is 11/6/2012. Stars of the show will be newly installed governors in the swing states of Florida, Ohio, Michigan and (maybe) Wisconsin. Caging, voting machine malfunctions, computer glitches, polling place issues will all favor the Republicans.
You think Jeb Bush and Katherine Harris played fast and loose in 2000? You ain't seen nothin' yet!
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