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Just a reminder how EASY IT IS TO HACK VOTING machines. DREs included.

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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 09:24 PM
Original message
Just a reminder how EASY IT IS TO HACK VOTING machines. DREs included.
I also remember something about a simple thing that can be changed inside the machine to count votes the way you want them to be counted. 8 for Prosser....2 for Kuppenburg....20 for Prosser.....1 for Kuppenburg....30 for Prosser.....1 for Koppenburg. Anyone else remember that? Remember Andy and you know who uncovered that in their investigations?


In June 2005, the Tallahassee Democrat reported that when given access to Diebold optical scan vote-counting computers, Black Box Voting, a nonprofit election watchdog group founded by Bev Harris, hired Finnish computer expert Harri Hursti and conducted a project in which vote totals were altered, by replacing the memory card that stores voting results with one that had been tampered with. Although the machines are supposed to record changes to data stored in the system, they showed no record of tampering after the memory cards were swapped. In response, a spokesperson for the Department of State said that, "Information on a blog site is not viable or credible.".<9>

In early 2006, a study for the state of California corroborated and expanded on the problem:;<10> on page 2 the California report states that:

"Memory card attacks are a real threat: We determined that anyone who has access to a memory card of the AV-OS, and can tamper it (i.e. modify its contents), and can have the modified cards used in a voting machine during election, can indeed modify the election results from that machine in a number of ways. The fact that the results are incorrect cannot be detected except by a recount of the original paper ballots" and "Harri Hursti's attack does work: Mr. Hursti's attack on the AV-OS is definitely real. He was indeed able to change the election results by doing nothing more than modifying the contents of a memory card. He needed no passwords, no cryptographic keys, and no access to any other part of the voting system, including the GEMS election management server."

A new vulnerability, this time with the TSx DRE machines, was reported in May 2006. According to Professor Rubin, the machines are "much, much easier to attack than anything we've previously said... On a scale of one to 10, if the problems we found before were a six, this is a 10. It's a totally different ballgame." According to Rubin, the system is intentionally designed so that anyone with access can update the machine software, without a pass code or other security protocol. Diebold officials said that although any problem can be avoided by keeping a close watch on the machines, they are developing a fix. .<11>

Michael I. Shamos, a professor of computer science at Carnegie Mellon University who is a proponent of electronic voting and the examiner of electronic voting systems for Pennsylvania, stated "It's the most severe security flaw ever discovered in a voting system." Douglas W. Jones, a professor of computer science at the University of Iowa, stated "This is the barn door being wide open, while people were arguing over the lock on the front door."
Diebold spokesman David Bear played down the seriousness of the situation, asserting that "For there to be a problem here, you're basically assuming a premise where you have some evil and nefarious election officials who would sneak in and introduce a piece of software. I don't believe these evil elections people exist."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premier_Election_Solutions
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Brickbat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 09:25 PM
Response to Original message
1. If our elections were monitored by the Carter Center, they'd be called corrupt. No record of voting?
Tallying votes on a personal computer that the owner protects from any kind of audit? REALLY? What kind of bullshit is that?
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SugarShack Donating Member (979 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 11:06 PM
Response to Reply #1
23. A U D I T S ! ! ! That is the process to check and verify the software.Its inadequate in many states
Especially in FLA
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Mnemosyne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 09:13 AM
Response to Reply #1
27. The Cater Center refused to monitor US elections, fyi. You are correct, corrupt is right. K&R n/t
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Mnemosyne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 09:16 AM
Response to Reply #1
28. The Carter Center refused to monitor US elections, fyi. You are correct, corrupt is right. K&R n/t
Edited on Fri Apr-08-11 09:16 AM by Mnemosyne
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flamingdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 09:26 PM
Response to Original message
2. yep nt
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 09:27 PM
Response to Original message
3. I don't know the answer to this, so I'm just asking. But,
I read that they had paper ballots in Wisc. Is that true? And if so, wouldn't that make it hard to cheat?
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riderinthestorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Brookfield, the town in question, ran out of paper ballots and resorted to a Diebold machine.
Edited on Thu Apr-07-11 09:34 PM by riderinthestorm
Furthermore, the county clerk ostensibly saved the data on her own personal computer on an old, easily hacked program called Access. She also gave the password to multiple people.
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PeaceNikki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. And those machines produce PAPER BALLOTS as required by law in Wisconsin.
Edited on Thu Apr-07-11 09:36 PM by PeaceNikki
Thanks to Democratic Governor Jim Doyle. Walker hasn't overturned that yet.

And the data on her machine was the totals, not the votes.
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riderinthestorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. Nikki, I 110% support everything you are doing but even this can be hacked.
Black Box Voting has shown how easy it is, especially with a program like Access. Check out the post that follows mine. It's pretty easy.

This woman's home computer was data central for this area's voting. Combined with her association with Prosser, and her past history of being called out for lax voting records security, I'm very nervous.

I know you all won't give up the fight. WI inspires us! (sigh, yes, I know, I'm posting from corruption land Illinois!)
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. Thank you. I'm reading different things so I wanted to be sure
before making up my mind. If what you say is true, and I have no reason to doubt it, then I hope there is going to be a thorough investigation of this woman and anyone who had the password. Can they look into her computer, or is this another case of 'we can't because the software is proprietary'?

This definitely sounds very, very fishy.
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PeaceNikki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Except it's not true.
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riderinthestorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 09:45 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. What's not true?
That she used to work for Prosser?

That Diebold machines are easily hacked?

That vote totals are easily changed?

That even the printing and time stamps can be hacked and changed?

That Nikolaus has irregularities in how she's handled previous voting in Waukesha?

That Brookfield ran out of paper ballots and resort to a Diebold machine?

I'm not trying to be adversarial, I'm trying to figure out what's not true.
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PeaceNikki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Not all 14k were DRE, all DRE produce paper. And I have not even heard Brookfield ran out.
Edited on Thu Apr-07-11 09:49 PM by PeaceNikki
Delafield did, Eau Claire did, Beaver Dam did, but show me where and when Brookfield did.
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riderinthestorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. I heard it on the Norman Goldman show this evening.
I have no other verification of that. It was a call in from a woman who was from Brookfield.

I know that not all 14k were DRE. Your question is valid and for now I will withhold any further comment until it is established that Brookfield did indeed run out.

I reiterate, I'm not trying to be adversarial here. I'm deeply curious about what happened. You all in WI have your hands full with the recount and other stuff. I applaud your good work.

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gkhouston Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #15
20. Yes, DREs produce paper, but it's possible to have the paper trail of the DRE
Edited on Thu Apr-07-11 10:05 PM by gkhouston
say one thing while the tabulator says something else. Unless there's a hand recount, a discrepancy between the two wouldn't be discovered. One of the diaries on DailyKos is wondering if there's something fishy about the returns from Waukesha because the turnout was so high yet the diarist hadn't been able to locate reports on election day indicating heavy turnout. Perhaps there was a lot of early/absentee voting in Waukesha.
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. They use the Optical Scanners. They have paper ballots and they're fed into the machine that tallies
the votes.

<snip>
In June 2005, the Tallahassee Democrat reported that when given access to Diebold optical scan vote-counting computers, Black Box Voting, a nonprofit election watchdog group founded by Bev Harris, hired Finnish computer expert Harri Hursti and conducted a project in which vote totals were altered, by replacing the memory card that stores voting results with one that had been tampered with. Although the machines are supposed to record changes to data stored in the system, they showed no record of tampering after the memory cards were swapped.<snip>

Totals could have been changed on the printout too.

Also...the 14,000 votes found today, were from DREs.....even easier to hack.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premier_Election_Solutions

There are MANY, MANY more people here here know MUCH more about this issue than I do. I just remember being here on DU when this was all discovered and investigated. Hopefully, they'll chime in. :)
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PeaceNikki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. Not all 14k were DRE
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #11
18. Were the others Optical Scanners? n/t
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #8
26. Thank you, I do remember some of that from a few years ago.
I also remember people like Howard Dean speaking about election fraud and demonstrating how easy it was to cheat.

It's not that I doubt they would do it, I have few doubts about that, I just wondered if there were any machines involved. Thanks for your response, now I really do think there must be an investigation.
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rurallib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 09:30 PM
Response to Original message
4. I showed our county ckerk how it was done about 5 years ago
our county has since switched to opti-scan. Not perfect but better.
Our clerk was amazed. She had heard rumors but couldn't believe how easy it was.
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PeaceNikki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 09:34 PM
Response to Original message
6. You know WI DRE machines are required by law to produce paper, right?
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #6
16. Yes. I know, but numbers can be changed when a machine can be hacked.
The changes can be made on the printouts too...without anyone ever knowing. I suppose a hacker could get in the machine and find the hack. They know what to look for.

Here:

<snip>
A new vulnerability, this time with the TSx DRE machines, was reported in May 2006. According to Professor Rubin, the machines are "much, much easier to attack than anything we've previously said... On a scale of one to 10, if the problems we found before were a six, this is a 10. It's a totally different ballgame." According to Rubin, the system is intentionally designed so that anyone with access can update the machine software, without a pass code or other security protocol.<snip>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premier_Election_Solutions

I hope you aren't taking this personally. It's not meant to disparage Wisconsin at ALL. Voter fraud should be stopped in its tracks....if that's what happened. And Republicans NEED TO BE STOPPED from doing this.

Every time there's lost ballots found/missing votes found...they always favor Republicans. They're doing something. I personally believe they're hacking voting machines.

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SnakeEyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 11:14 PM
Response to Reply #16
24. Ok, well the paper ballots aren't lost.
Just count them up by hand. If an entire city wasn't recorded we will know really fast.

However, from the way it sounds, it looks like it's even easy for those at the central system to know. Sounds like the data was uploaded as zeroes. I think when reporting they dont just combine everything, they remain broken out in the raw data tables before combined for easy publication by mass media.
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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 09:41 PM
Response to Original message
12. We just switched to paper ballots with a scanner and it means nothing. If the votes have been
flipped no one would know if the winner had a large enough of a winning margin that a recount by paper ballots couldn't be called. I think that's why my Dem Congressman lost.
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demodonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #12
22. You have the basics in place (paper ballot) -- now get the audit (every time)

A voter-marked, voter-verified paper ballot for every vote is the base; we need to move upward from there to meaningful audits of every election.

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deaniac21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 09:51 PM
Response to Original message
17. We need to get Bev on this, ASAP!
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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 11:24 PM
Response to Reply #17
25. Do you mean Bev the Grifter, who swindled lots of us out of our money?
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kster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 10:56 PM
Response to Original message
21. People are only concerned about electronic/mechanical vote counting, for oh lets say
two to four weeks after an election. Thats the problem no one seems to worry no one seems to care. Drop off your piggy banks at my house, Ill put the change into my electronic/mechanical coin counting machine, free of charge, and ill cut a check to you once I get the total from the machines.

From what I see in America when it comes to vote counting it wouldnt be to hard to convince people to do just that. We do something similar in every election cycle and no one seems to worry, no one seems to care.

K&R
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